A police report is not needed to make a claim. A claim is just that, an assertion or accusation that his injury was caused by you, for instance resulting from a car accident that you caused. The claim can be made in the form of a lawsuit against you or by him telling your insurance company that he's injured and it's your fault. An investigation follows and evidence is considered. If it is likely that you caused his injuries, then he'll probably eventually win a money judgment from the court or a cash settlement from your insurance company.
Which is why I always advocate to get a police report, NO MATTER WHAT...I get calls from potential clients fairly frequently telling me they were hit by somebody, not MUCH damage and they said they would pay for it, just go get an estimate...well, they got the estimate, and lo and behold, the at fault driver now denies they did anything...
Then they ask me, what can they do?...and, will I take the case???...my only answer is: w/o a police report, it is he said she said, and they are screwed if they will not admit to fault...will I take the case???...WHAT CASE???
Is everyone a liar???...no...but getting the report help establish what the evidence/witnesses points to as fault...also remember...sometimes, what YOU think is minor damage to a bumper may bend a frame or break the energy absorbing shocks in the bumper, making the repair jump from a few hundred to much more...
If you both drive away w/o a report, you depend on the honesty of the one who hit you...and, considering that the folks who cause accidents are often the same folks who have caused accidents before (i.e repeat offenders), the LAST thing they want is for their insurance to learn about a collision, big or small...
A police report is not foolproof, but I feel it is about your best protection to at least establish the parties involved (they can't say they weren't there), and, as stated in the past, usually establishes who is at fault, or, at least, has the best chance of establishing who is at fault...
So, to bring back an old phrase, when it comes to auto accidents, "Don't trust anyone over 15"...
you are telling me that an insurance company is going to pursue a case without a police report? there had better be some other independant evidence.
of course - you can file a claim when for example, your car is crushed in a parking lot when you were in the store and nobody stuck around to fess up to doing the damage, but that's not the kind of accident i'm talking about.
I'm not talking about when for example, your car is crushed in a parking lot when you were in the store and nobody stuck around to fess up to doing the damage.
Go back and read my posts. I'm saying a person may claim you caused their injuries or property damages. In that case, if you promptly reported the accident, your insurance company is obligated to defend you from that claim. They may do it by settling it or by defending you in arbitration or court. But yes, the insurance company will investigate the claim and protect you up to the limits of your policy. BUT, that's only IF it does not deny coverage to you because you FAILED to promptly report the accident. Does that clear it up for you at all?
In previous posts you stated if in an accident and not getting a police report, the other party in said accident could come forward months/years later and sue for medical expenses/pain and suffering etc. Now you are implying that no lawyer would take the case???
I'm no law expert, but imagine that you hit someone and decided to not get a police report or notify your ins company. You pay for a new bumper for the car you hit, using your handy checkbook.
Next month, the victim calls you with a pile of chiropractor's bills and wants reimbursement. Now, the victim has your reimbursement check as "evidence" that you hit him and acknowledge fault. But what do YOU have to prove that you just nicked him going 3 MPH?
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Joe, I KNOW. I think MOST members understand that I am just giving an example of how the alleged victim might have more evidence that 1) the other driver "admitted" fault by paying for damages, and 2) the date(s) of the subsequent Dr's visit(s) and Dr's notes might indicate that injuries (whether real or feigned) are likely a result of the accident.
The driver that hit the victim has nothing but his/her version of the story. Zippo. Neither one has concrete evidence. Both should request a police report.
I think that marsha7, who has quite a bit of expertise, has explained this rather clearly. I was simply giving an example for jipster's reference.
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You make a good point, jipster, in exposing this apparent inconsistency. However, it's not only (as a subsequent poster said) that laws vary from state to state but also (and perhaps more importantly) that there are differences of opinion between lawyers on which cases are worth pursuing.
In my opinion, when the police report is nonexistent, and the other party, who is at fault (at least, according to my client...:):):)..), I will not accept that case, as, IMO, there is insufficient evidence to make a case, and, to me, a total waste of my time...
There are lawyers, however, who WILL take the case and file suit, hoping to create what is often called a nuisance suit...in essence, they are hoping that the at-fault party, when sued, will rather pay, say $5,000 in damages rather than $10-15,000 to hire a lawyer to defend them...
I do NOT file nuisance suits, as I believe they just clog the courts...despite the opportunity to (often) make money, I believe those cases are beneath my dignity and ethics...it is NOT beneath basic legal ethics, but beneath my personal ethics...
I will only file suits on those cases with, IMO, sufficient evidence, and I intend to win cases on the basis of merit, i.e. we won the case because we were on the right side of the issue...
That does not mean we always win, of course, we don't...but I will not file or prosecute a case that I do not believe has sufficient merit...
So, I really do not see any inconsistency at all, but my premise for practicing law is different than many lawyers you will meet...so, when I said, "what case?", it is on the basis of my analysis of the facts and evidence as presented that I truly question whether we have a provable case other than "he said, she said"
Quite consistent with my ethics...hence, no philosophical inconsistency at all...other attys may jump at the chance to clog the courts for a few bucks, I will not...
Any questions???????????????????????????????????????
maybe it's the fact my wife is a lawyer and holds similar ethical standards as you that gave rise to my opinion on the matter many posts back: no report, no case.
thanks for spelling it out and for demonstrating that there are lawyers out there with ethics we can hold up as models.
It is still not a case that I would accept, as the variables are too many...witnesses' memories fade over time, some witnesses simply do not testify well, and two witnesses often tell differing versions of the same event...
You are forgetting one simple concept...when we take an auto accident case, it is on contingency, meaning that our fee is a percentage of their jury award...we, the attorneys, are the ones who front hundreds, often thousands of dollars in expert witness fees, deposition costs, medical records fees, in the hopes of recovering all that PLUS money as a fee for what we have attempted to do, win a (obviously shaky) case...if we lose the case, do you think the client is going to fork over a few thousand to reimburse us for the expenses we advanced, even tho HIS case was shaky, despite your "two credible witnesses"???
Now, if the client wants to pay us by the hour, advance us about $2-3000 for expenses as described above, and maybe a retainer of $5,000 to sit in trust while we earn it by the hour, many attys would take that case, as they are being paid no matter what...but I would still tell the client that the odds of winning would be slim to none, and I would not waste my time or the client's money on a tort case they had no chance of winning...
See, you keep trying to add little factors to find out what it would take for me to take the case, but you simply ignore the fact that I am the one fronting all the expenses, which can easily become a few thousand dollars in no time...two witnesses, even if one is Jesus himself, simply isn't enough evidence for me to gamble MY money on a shaky case...
While the police report isn't perfect, having one still means that the people on the report WERE at the scene, and that fact is hard to dispute (altho if the at-fault driver had a fake identity with a fake driver's license, that could complicate matters greatly)...
Remember, people have the RIGHT to sue anyone for any harm or injury they accuse them of doing...but, in civil law, nobody has the RIGHT to have an attorney prosecute/defend their case for FREE...so, for us to take the monetary gamble, two "credible" witnesses is simply insufficient for me to take the case to a jury with the expectation of winning...
Old joke: we have an agreement with the local banks...we won't loan money to clients, and they won't practice law...:):):):):)
My 25yo son was driving my 2000 Toyota (covered by Farmers) and was involved in a collision. A police report was filed for property damage only. The bumper had come off and was dragging and driver side turn signal light was busted. The other vehicle(Mercury Villager van) only had minor scratches on the rear panel near the rear wheel. I called Farmers immediately to file the claim and they said my son was excluded from my policy. My son is covered by Mercury and they said my car was excluded from his policy. So we are left to pay for not only damages to my car but $2,997.98 in damages to the other vehicle even tho' it suffered only a couple of minor scratches.
My son has his own car and his own insurance with Mercury and so he would only borrow my car in case of emergency. Well, his brakes had failed so that's why I let him take my car. I didn't want him to drive w/ faulty brakes.
I was with AAA for 23 years and only left them when they raised my rates for no reason. I would call the 800 number and get a different quote each time. Out of frustration, I went to Farmers and the agent got me a better quote. He also said my son could use my car and Mercury would cover it. And if I used his car Farmers would cover me.
My Farmers agent is no help. We communicated via emails and phone calls and I never told him that my son had collision coverage. He now seems to think that I did and that is why he excluded my son from my policy. This agent did send and email to the adjuster stating that if he was at fault, then Farmers should pay the claim but the adjusters office already sent a denial letter.
Allstate, the other guys insurance never even contacted me. They spoke to my son who says the other guy is at fault and Allstate claims my son is at fault. They sent the claim amount to a collection agency w/o talking to me and they want payment.
When we first bought auto insurance I was married and my husband bought it. I am a widow and don't know much about insurance so I trusted my agent to provide me with the same kind of coverage I had with AAA. Obviously, he gave me something else.
My son was able to fix somethings on my car and we took it to a garage for the rest of the repairs. But I don't see how a couple of minor scratches could result in ~$3K worth of claims from the other guys insurance.
I am afraid of getting my good credit rating ruined and also afraid that I have no choice other than to pay up.
My son was pulling out of a Kragen's parking lot and the other car came around the corner and they collided. Both claim it was the other guys fault. What should I do? We left message w/ the Allstate agent to call us so we can discuss the claim but he never called. How can I get this resolved?
I believe Farmers should pay for the repairs because of the info my insurance agent gave me. He had told me I would be covered regardless of who drove my car but he restricted my son! Now he claims that we had discussed it and it was his understanding that my son had collision insurance. When he had asked if my son had insurance I told him yes and that my son also drove his own car but I wanted him to be able to drive mine in case of emergency.
I would appreciate any advice on how to proceed. I can't afford a license suspension or have my credit rating damaged. I always pay my premiums in full in a single payment and have never been late. I had thought I had pretty good coverage only to discover that I am in worse shape. What happens now that the credit collections agency has sent the subrogation notice? Can I still get Farmers to somehow pay for the damages to the other guys car?
Also, how can I get collision isurance for my son on his 1992 Corrola? Every quote so far says I need comprehensive coverage in order to get the collision.
Do you and your son live under the same roof? What state do you and son live in? Is Mercury the name of an insurance company? Your son should contact his insurance company about collision coverage on his Corolla
If you did NOT sign a "Driver Exclusion" endorsement which excludes coverage when your car is being driven by the excluded named driver - you have insurance coverage for your vehicle and any Property Damage to a 3rd party's vehicle.
If you DID sign such an endorsement, you may be residing in a state where their Financial Responsibility Law does NOT allow or permit such restrictive endorsements for less than the Financial Responsibility Law limits of Liability.
When it comes to Property Damage Claims, bluffing is common.
barb13 is saying that her son was driving her vehicle with her permission, had an accident, and her insurance won't pay anything...even to the other driver? That doesn't sound right.
I may be dumb but I thought that insurance pays for the car regardless who is driving. That is, I let my mother take my car to the market and she dings a fender in the parking lot. My insurance pays because it was my car driven with my permission for a short time frame. If not, what is the purpose of insurance? Do you have to have a new endorsement to cover every time your buddy drives you home because you were too drunk to do it yourself? I'm confused.
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I thought the same thing, that if I insure my car anybody who drives it is insured.
However I could see, how an insurance company might NOT want to insure my vehicle if I had a driver in my family who was let's say........a horrible driver and has had 5 accidents in 5 years.
So as a way around that problem and/or to avoid having to pay an arm and leg for coverage....I could sign an exclusion on that person. Makes sense.
Why in the world would you want to buy collision coverage for a '92 Corolla?
Check to see what the limit is for small claim court where you live. It might be the cheapest way to sort this out by filing on the insurance company and the other driver in that venue.
1. What state do you live in? 2. Does your son live in your house with you -- or is he a student and lives away from home part time? 3. Who owns the Corolla -- specifically, who is on the title and is it garaged in your house?
I won't touch on the liability issue here much -- it looks like your son was pulling from a space into the lane of travel and struck the side of another vehicle -- he is probably liable for damages.
I see a couple of reasons Farmers would deny this claim. 1. Your son is excluded and you signed a form confirming this. See euphonium's post for possible recourse. 2. You specifically left your live-in son off of your policy so as to decrease your rates -- this is misrepresentation and may warrant a coverage denial -- though I doubt it. -- likely he is excluded and Farmers will provide no coverage, be it first or third party. I can really think of no other reason Farmers would deny coverage -- maybe you can share the denial letter with us, it should be pretty specific in its reasoning and likely would cite specific policy language.
Now as for your son's insurance. If he has no comp and collision and Farmers has a solid stance, you are paying out of pocket for your own damages. Also, don't think that him having comp and collision on his vehicle will neccessarily cover your vehicle in this situation. It is probable that Mercury may find some way to deny first party coverage to your vehicle as it is garaged in the same address and not on his policy -- this is a common exclusion and is meant to keep people from insuring one cheap vehicle they own and driving 50 others.
As for Mercury's liability denial -- it may be that they simply don't think your son is liable. Otherwise I can't see how they are denying coverage.
Likely what is happening with them is that they have confirmed you have a policy on your vehicle and they are taking an "excess" stance. Whereby they are excess above and beyond the coverage on your policy -- Which, with damages where they are will let them close their claim. If you advise them that Farmers has denied the claim, they will be forced to provide coverage (liability coverage) But, know that they will probably require a lot of information from Farmers -- and I can assure you it will not come quickly.
In the mean time, contact Allstate's subrogation department and tell them the claim number to both Farmers and Mercury -- it will buy you some time and get all three carriers talking in an attempt to work out coverage.
All told, I think you're going to come out of this with a bill for your own car, and the other car taken care of. You will need to be proactive though, as Allstate can simply subrogate you all day long, they don't need to work with your carrier -- especially if your carrier is disinterested (and sadly, it is)
If you want more specific suggestions, a little more information on the precise denials would be helpful. And, IMHO, never rely on an agent for anything claims related -- they are salesmen, period.
1. What state do you live in? I live in northern California
2. Does your son live in your house with you -- or is he a student and lives away from home part time? My son lives with me full time. 3. Who owns the Corolla -- specifically, who is on the title and is it garaged in your house I actually own the Corolla and it is garaged in my house.
My agent restricted my son from my policy without really giving me a reason. He just emailed me stating that my son's insurance would cover my car in case of accident. I did sign the paperwork (without reading it fully) because I trusted my agent when he said I had better coverage than with AAA. (AAA would cover any driver using my car, but not Farmers it seems).
maybe you can share the denial letter with us, it should be pretty specific in its reasoning and likely would cite specific policy language. I don't see anything in the denial letter stating the reason why he was left off. Should it be stated there in plain language?
Also, we finally got a letter from Mercury Insurance (my son's insurance) stating that my car is excluded from any coverage. It's a exclusion letter so I am out of luck.
I am not worried about my car repairs anymore, but really do want the other car's expenses taken care of.
Why in the world would you want to buy collision coverage for a '92 Corolla? My agent suggested that I get this for my son's car so that any future accidents will ensure that his car will be repaired.
I am getting the feeling that my agent is not going to be useful to me at all. Should I go over his head and talk to his supervisor instead. Or should I contact the adjuster's office again.
I feel like I am paying my premiums for nothing. Can we get the restriction lifted off of my car on my son's Mercury Insurance? Can I have my son unrestricted on my policy? He is the only one listed as restricted so does that mean that any other driver will be covered?
I would think you can get your son included, but you'll need to ask your insurance agency for certain. I think it's going to net down to whether you want to do that.... when you realize how much your insurance is going to go up to cover another driver. Every driver you add, increases your 'risk', and the rates you are charged will go up.
Please let me know what you make of this situation. My 2003 Infiniti G35 sedan with the sports suspension and all the goodies was hit hard in the passenger side rear door and wheel by a driver who pulled out in front of me while she was making a left hand turn. She hit so hard she spun the car around in a circle and set off the passenger side airbag. The body shop has had it for about 5 weeks now because they say they are looking for parts. They estimate at least another couple weeks until they have it to paint and get it to the Infiniti dealer for the mechanical stuff. I can't believe it wasn't totaled. The frame was bent and at this point they say I have $13,900 in damage. What does it take to total a car. I live in Florida and my insurance Co. is USAA.
I know when I get it back again it won't be worth nearly what the pre collision value was. The ins co tells me they estimated that at about $20,500. How do I figure out the post crash value? I was planning on trading in the car before the accident and now I think I'm just going to lose a ton of money. Any ideas from anyone on how to make the best of this situation? To make matters worse, the other driver was underinsured and only covered $10,000 in property damage coverage.
Yes, you'll lose a ton of money unless you can get the other company or the other driver to pay you for the diminished value due to the stigma attached to a wrecked and repaired car (in addition to the repair costs). If you get a perfect repair, and if the car was worth $20,000 before it was hit, your car will only be worth about $13,000 or so post repair. Depending on the laws of your state, you may or may not be able to collect diminished value from your own collision coverage carrier. You find out how much it's worth by taking it to dealers' used car buyers and getting written bids on them buying it from you after disclosing the repaired damage. Show them photos of the damage and the repair invoice too. Don't be surprised if they don't want to even touch it at any price. Maybe you can take a deduction for it on your income tax return as an uncompensated casualty loss. Not much consolation, I know, but that might be the best you can do.
You can exclude a driver in CA and I'm not sure, but do not think that your carrier will be forced to provide minimum limits in this situation -- barring any filings being in effect.
Moving forward, you say Farmers has "restricted" your son from your policy -- If I were you I would have him show me, not tell me, but show me specifically the form you signed excluding him from your policy, and also the policy language that defines what this means -- it will likely be on the same form/endorsement you signed. They don't have to tell you why he was left off -- after all, technically, you made the decision to leave him off. They just need to show you what you signed confirming that he was left off. That will rule out Farmers as far as I'm concerned and then you can move on to Mercury.
While there are many different types of policies, typically they do not "exclude" another vehicle. If your son's Mercury policy is a standard auto policy, I would think they would be forced to provide excess coverage (liability that is.)
If your son has a commercial policy -- it is likely vehicle specific. If your son has a named operator policy he should be covered in your vehicle (which they both are.)
Since I doubt he has a commercial policy, I would re-read that Mercury letter. What exactly is the exclusion? Call the adjuster who will be listed on the letter and ask them why your vehicle is "excluded" Ask them, if they have not included it in the denial, to send you a copy of the policy language -- or fax it ASAP. Advise them that you have received a denial from the primary carrier on that vehicle and that if there liability coverage is excess, than they will come into play.
While I would take all of these steps, If I were you I think Mercury is your best chance here for liability coverage.
Don't just take their word for it on denials, ask them to show you the policy stipulations that they are denying on. It is their burden in a denial -- if there is any ambiguity they will not deny -- or they do at their own, bad faith, risk.
I have a friend who is recieving a truck from his father, who lives in Illinois. The father is divorced, and the mother refuses to sign off her half ownership of the truck. She is listed on the title. The father claims that he is going to let his son drive the truck "on his insuarance", and eventually is going to give or sell the truck to his son. The son intends drive the truck to Florida. Something doesn't smell right about the whole deal. Is this theft? Is it possible for the son to drive on "his father's insurance"? The father has been cited twice for driving w/o insurance. Can you tell me what you all think? thanks
Diminished value is based on "reasonable" evidence. Because opinions on that vary, it is negotiable. If no agreement is reached, arbitration or litigation can result. An insurance company can use any of many methods to calculate an offer.
joe131, for say 10K? i think you'd quickly blow that in legal fees, even if you can arrange a meeting of the minds through arbitration. litigation? you're serious to suggest you take the insurance company to court.
me thinks it's disadvantageous to do so from a few perspectives, and they know this. if YOU happen to be a lawyer, can have self representation, and can spare time from work or family commitments, more power to ya.
If these facts are correct, and dad has been cited twice for no insurance, that boy is a fool to take that car around the block, never mind Florida...Dad sounds like the very reason they created U/M...
And, if Mom is on the title with Dad, while he can grant permission to drive the car, until Mom signs off, Mom owns the car if Dad has already signed off himself...
Further, if Dad HAS signed off, he can no longer grant permission to drive because he no longer owns his portion of the car...
Tell Sonny-Boy to rent a car at Hertz, buy the daily CDW (and additional liability if it is offered) and he is covered for the trip...while it may be more expensive if he rented the car for six months, for a 10 day trip he is completely covered, making it a wise purchase in the short term, IMO...
Wifey must not be very smart to stay on the title with Daddy. If he gets in an accident, with her still on the title, she's liable. But both are probably judgement proof anyway.
I live in Florida and my insurance company says they don't pay diminished value claims. I'd have to get that money from the ins co of the person who hit me. I'm told that I should ask for my out of pocket expenses and diminished value first before any other monies are paid. The party who hit me only had $10,000 in total coverage.
My G35 Infiniti suffered a pretty severe T bone crash recently which spun the vehicle in a complete circle. The passenger's side rear wheel was bent in at a 30 degree angle. I was later told the frame was bent. I know with these unibody cars they say that everything can be straightened out just the same as before the crash, but I'm sceptical of that. Any thoughts on how much structural damage is too much even if the total dollar value of the damage is not enough to total the car? Thanks.
Cetain people will attack me for this posting, but here goes. Get yourself a PIP lawyer to handle this. You shouldn't be dealing with this person who hit. Your car will MIGHT be listed with CarFax,or another company in the car history search business, as having been in a bad car accident, and when you go to sell it, it will be 'diminished in value' as you obviously know. Once that frame is bent,it will never be EXACTLY the same. And you need to be compensated for that. Unless the person that hit you doesnt have 2 cents to his name, or has no insurance,...that person should be paying you for this loss in value of that beautiful car! AND for your deductable IF you are having to pay for this accident...are you?
A lawyer will know all the legal talk to tell them they owe you the difference between the value of your car before they hit you...and after it is 'fixed'. It will never be the same. IF you ever sell it. So unless you intend to keep it forever, you need to be compensated. You could try on your own if you want...but...a lawyer that works on a contingancy basis should be able to help you. You know...he doesnt get paid unless YOU get money out of the other person.
If your insurance is paying for the repair, then I guess you could sue the person that hit you in small claims court. BUT then you have to wait till you sell the car..to PROVE the diminished value. A lawyer MIGHT be able to get the difference now...not when you sell. Maybe. I wasn't reading all your postings ,so I don't know who is paying for the repair, and if they had insurance or not. Or if it was a POS that hit you with no insurance. But here in Fla. IF an uninsured car hits you...I think you can sue them in small claims for your deductable at least,NOW. It will take months to get a court date and then to get the money out of them could take longer. BUT you shouldn't have to pay for anything. At least you can get that money back. YOU didn't cause the accident. Now 'certain people' will now attack me for my advise.
Sorry to disagree Pat. BUT to start a new 'topic'...just go to the END of all the replies to THIS posting, or go to another 'topic' in this forum, and then post your new topic, and there is a blank area to START a new topic. You can start your new topic. The owners of the board are not the only ones that can start a topic. How would they know about this guys accident?...that is silly. How do you think WE have started all these topics in all the different parts of the forum? Just find the right 'topic area' in the forum..go there,and you will see a blank area to start a new topic with a new title and then your question or comment.
It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. You can't start a new discussion and have it "live" on the Smart Shopper board - only hosts can do that. You can start a discussion on many other boards, though, like Auto News, Hatchbacks, etc. (You can give it a try by going to the Smart Shopper Board if you like)
What you're referring to is posting a new message, or replying to a message within a an existing discussion. That, of course, anyone can do... or we'd have NO conversation!! And of course you can change the title of your post to anything you want
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Since you live in Florida you know all about our wonderful auto insurance laws down here. The kind lady who hit me after she made a left in front of me after failing to stop for the stop sign, has the minimum auto insurance amount allowed by Florida law. That is $10,000 property damage and another $10,000 of personal injury protection for her.
Damages on my vehicle are so far estimated at close to $12,000 and it hasn't been to the Infiniti garage yet to have them check it our and replace sensors for the airbags that deployed.
I'm talking to an attorney, but it is more about the bodily injury end of things. Sounds like there usually isn't enough money in the dimunition of value claims to make it worth their while.
My deductible has been waived by USAA. Honestly, I'm not sure who is paying for the repairs. My adjuster is next to impossible to get a hold of and I've received conflicting answers from the company. Very frustrating. I've been told I can go after rental car reimbursement and diminution of value claims before the rest of their $10,000 is used up.
You are right, I should have to suffer any losses or pay anything,but finding the right road to get there is going to be tough.
One more question? Is there a personal injury thread somewhere in this board? Thanks.
>the minimum auto insurance amount allowed by Florida law. That is $10,000 property damage and another $10,000 of personal injury protection for her.
Just because she chose to not have adequate insurance doesn't mean she's not responsible for all of your damages, at least in my state. Sue the pants off of her.
the pants off her, but also be mindful of a few things...
First, while it is not a rule cast in stone, most folks who carry minimum limits on auto ins usually do not have many assets, meaning that getting a judgment against her will be a piece of cake, but COLLECTING on that judgment may be impossible...the folks who have ample insurance are the people who read this board and follow my advice (...:):):):):)...) and those who have assets to protect, hence they carry insurance to pay claims and judgments...
GA had base limits of 15/30/10 up until a few years ago...now the minimum is 25/50/25...
Also, in GA, if you are awarded a judgment against a uninsured/underinsured driver, if they do not pay the judgment, their driver's license is suspended...this sounds good on paper, but the suspension can be removed if the judgment is discharged in Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, as you are no longer legally responsible to pay the debt...so, since the driver with insufficient insurance usually has no assets, you are now right back where you started from, a great judgment and no way to collect it...
The saving grace, which you may never know but it will affect them, is if they have already filed Chapter 7, and cannot file another one for 8 years after filing the first one...so, if they filed a 7 in 2003, they would have to wait for 2010 to do another 7...
The smartest thing to do is for you, your neighbors, friends, co-workers to start a massive letter campaign to your legislature to raise the minimum limits to 25/50/25...
Rather than sounding greedy for more PI benefits, attack it from the angle that more PD is necessary, since the average SUV or Chevy Impala (what used to be the "average American's car) can cost over $30K, and simply having $10K is grossly inadequate...plus, with all the BMWs, Benzs, Lexus', Infinitis out there, there are MANY vehicles who repairs could easily exceed $10K with minor to moderate damage...
Yes, it will raise everybody's premium somewhat, but minimum insurance should be set to cover most collision damage claims, and many claims will exceed $10K...
And, of course, YOU should always carry adequate collision, comprehensive, and U/M to cover your buns in a case like this...
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A claim is just that, an assertion or accusation that his injury was caused by you, for instance resulting from a car accident that you caused. The claim can be made in the form of a lawsuit against you or by him telling your insurance company that he's injured and it's your fault. An investigation follows and evidence is considered. If it is likely that you caused his injuries, then he'll probably eventually win a money judgment from the court or a cash settlement from your insurance company.
Then they ask me, what can they do?...and, will I take the case???...my only answer is: w/o a police report, it is he said she said, and they are screwed if they will not admit to fault...will I take the case???...WHAT CASE???
Is everyone a liar???...no...but getting the report help establish what the evidence/witnesses points to as fault...also remember...sometimes, what YOU think is minor damage to a bumper may bend a frame or break the energy absorbing shocks in the bumper, making the repair jump from a few hundred to much more...
If you both drive away w/o a report, you depend on the honesty of the one who hit you...and, considering that the folks who cause accidents are often the same folks who have caused accidents before (i.e repeat offenders), the LAST thing they want is for their insurance to learn about a collision, big or small...
A police report is not foolproof, but I feel it is about your best protection to at least establish the parties involved (they can't say they weren't there), and, as stated in the past, usually establishes who is at fault, or, at least, has the best chance of establishing who is at fault...
So, to bring back an old phrase, when it comes to auto accidents, "Don't trust anyone over 15"...
of course - you can file a claim when for example, your car is crushed in a parking lot when you were in the store and nobody stuck around to fess up to doing the damage, but that's not the kind of accident i'm talking about.
Go back and read my posts.
I'm saying a person may claim you caused their injuries or property damages. In that case, if you promptly reported the accident, your insurance company is obligated to defend you from that claim. They may do it by settling it or by defending you in arbitration or court. But yes, the insurance company will investigate the claim and protect you up to the limits of your policy. BUT, that's only IF it does not deny coverage to you because you FAILED to promptly report the accident.
Does that clear it up for you at all?
In previous posts you stated if in an accident and not getting a police report, the other party in said accident could come forward months/years later and sue for medical expenses/pain and suffering etc. Now you are implying that no lawyer would take the case???
Next month, the victim calls you with a pile of chiropractor's bills and wants reimbursement. Now, the victim has your reimbursement check as "evidence" that you hit him and acknowledge fault. But what do YOU have to prove that you just nicked him going 3 MPH?
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Could you explain what your question is asking?
The speed of the impact does not necessarily limit the severity of the injury.
The driver that hit the victim has nothing but his/her version of the story. Zippo. Neither one has concrete evidence. Both should request a police report.
I think that marsha7, who has quite a bit of expertise, has explained this rather clearly. I was simply giving an example for jipster's reference.
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In my opinion, when the police report is nonexistent, and the other party, who is at fault (at least, according to my client...:):):)..), I will not accept that case, as, IMO, there is insufficient evidence to make a case, and, to me, a total waste of my time...
There are lawyers, however, who WILL take the case and file suit, hoping to create what is often called a nuisance suit...in essence, they are hoping that the at-fault party, when sued, will rather pay, say $5,000 in damages rather than $10-15,000 to hire a lawyer to defend them...
I do NOT file nuisance suits, as I believe they just clog the courts...despite the opportunity to (often) make money, I believe those cases are beneath my dignity and ethics...it is NOT beneath basic legal ethics, but beneath my personal ethics...
I will only file suits on those cases with, IMO, sufficient evidence, and I intend to win cases on the basis of merit, i.e. we won the case because we were on the right side of the issue...
That does not mean we always win, of course, we don't...but I will not file or prosecute a case that I do not believe has sufficient merit...
So, I really do not see any inconsistency at all, but my premise for practicing law is different than many lawyers you will meet...so, when I said, "what case?", it is on the basis of my analysis of the facts and evidence as presented that I truly question whether we have a provable case other than "he said, she said"
Quite consistent with my ethics...hence, no philosophical inconsistency at all...other attys may jump at the chance to clog the courts for a few bucks, I will not...
Any questions???????????????????????????????????????
thanks for spelling it out and for demonstrating that there are lawyers out there with ethics we can hold up as models.
You are forgetting one simple concept...when we take an auto accident case, it is on contingency, meaning that our fee is a percentage of their jury award...we, the attorneys, are the ones who front hundreds, often thousands of dollars in expert witness fees, deposition costs, medical records fees, in the hopes of recovering all that PLUS money as a fee for what we have attempted to do, win a (obviously shaky) case...if we lose the case, do you think the client is going to fork over a few thousand to reimburse us for the expenses we advanced, even tho HIS case was shaky, despite your "two credible witnesses"???
Now, if the client wants to pay us by the hour, advance us about $2-3000 for expenses as described above, and maybe a retainer of $5,000 to sit in trust while we earn it by the hour, many attys would take that case, as they are being paid no matter what...but I would still tell the client that the odds of winning would be slim to none, and I would not waste my time or the client's money on a tort case they had no chance of winning...
See, you keep trying to add little factors to find out what it would take for me to take the case, but you simply ignore the fact that I am the one fronting all the expenses, which can easily become a few thousand dollars in no time...two witnesses, even if one is Jesus himself, simply isn't enough evidence for me to gamble MY money on a shaky case...
While the police report isn't perfect, having one still means that the people on the report WERE at the scene, and that fact is hard to dispute (altho if the at-fault driver had a fake identity with a fake driver's license, that could complicate matters greatly)...
Remember, people have the RIGHT to sue anyone for any harm or injury they accuse them of doing...but, in civil law, nobody has the RIGHT to have an attorney prosecute/defend their case for FREE...so, for us to take the monetary gamble, two "credible" witnesses is simply insufficient for me to take the case to a jury with the expectation of winning...
Old joke: we have an agreement with the local banks...we won't loan money to clients, and they won't practice law...:):):):):)
I called Farmers immediately to file the claim and they said my son was excluded from my policy. My son is covered by Mercury and they said my car was excluded from his policy. So we are left to pay for not only damages to my car but $2,997.98 in damages to the other vehicle even tho' it suffered only a couple of minor scratches.
My son has his own car and his own insurance with Mercury and so he would only borrow my car in case of emergency. Well, his brakes had failed so that's why I let him take my car. I didn't want him to drive w/ faulty brakes.
I was with AAA for 23 years and only left them when they raised my rates for no reason. I would call the 800 number and get a different quote each time. Out of frustration, I went to Farmers and the agent got me a better quote. He also said my son could use my car and Mercury would cover it. And if I used his car Farmers would cover me.
My Farmers agent is no help. We communicated via emails and phone calls and I never told him that my son had collision coverage. He now seems to think that I did and that is why he excluded my son from my policy. This agent did send and email to the adjuster stating that if he was at fault, then Farmers should pay the claim but the adjusters office already sent a denial letter.
Allstate, the other guys insurance never even contacted me. They spoke to my son who says the other guy is at fault and Allstate claims my son is at fault. They sent the claim amount to a collection agency w/o talking to me and they want payment.
When we first bought auto insurance I was married and my husband bought it. I am a widow and don't know much about insurance so I trusted my agent to provide me with the same kind of coverage I had with AAA. Obviously, he gave me something else.
My son was able to fix somethings on my car and we took it to a garage for the rest of the repairs. But I don't see how a couple of minor scratches could result in ~$3K worth of claims from the other guys insurance.
I am afraid of getting my good credit rating ruined and also afraid that I have no choice other than to pay up.
My son was pulling out of a Kragen's parking lot and the other car came around the corner and they collided. Both claim it was the other guys fault. What should I do? We left message w/ the Allstate agent to call us so we can discuss the claim but he never called. How can I get this resolved?
I believe Farmers should pay for the repairs because of the info my insurance agent gave me. He had told me I would be covered regardless of who drove my car but he restricted my son! Now he claims that we had discussed it and it was his understanding that my son had collision insurance. When he had asked if my son had insurance I told him yes and that my son also drove his own car but I wanted him to be able to drive mine in case of emergency.
I would appreciate any advice on how to proceed. I can't afford a license suspension or have my credit rating damaged. I always pay my premiums in full in a single payment and have never been
late. I had thought I had pretty good coverage only to discover that I am in worse shape. What happens now that the credit collections agency has sent the subrogation notice? Can I still get Farmers to somehow pay for the damages to the other guys car?
Also, how can I get collision isurance for my son on his 1992 Corrola? Every quote so far says I need comprehensive coverage in order to get the collision.
Thank you in advance for your response.
If you DID sign such an endorsement, you may be residing in a state where their Financial Responsibility Law does NOT allow or permit such restrictive endorsements for less than the Financial Responsibility Law limits of Liability.
When it comes to Property Damage Claims, bluffing is common.
I may be dumb but I thought that insurance pays for the car regardless who is driving. That is, I let my mother take my car to the market and she dings a fender in the parking lot. My insurance pays because it was my car driven with my permission for a short time frame. If not, what is the purpose of insurance? Do you have to have a new endorsement to cover every time your buddy drives you home because you were too drunk to do it yourself? I'm confused.
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However I could see, how an insurance company might NOT want to insure my vehicle if I had a driver in my family who was let's say........a horrible driver and has had 5 accidents in 5 years.
So as a way around that problem and/or to avoid having to pay an arm and leg for coverage....I could sign an exclusion on that person. Makes sense.
Check to see what the limit is for small claim court where you live. It might be the cheapest way to sort this out by filing on the insurance company and the other driver in that venue.
1. What state do you live in?
2. Does your son live in your house with you -- or is he a student and lives away from home part time?
3. Who owns the Corolla -- specifically, who is on the title and is it garaged in your house?
I won't touch on the liability issue here much -- it looks like your son was pulling from a space into the lane of travel and struck the side of another vehicle -- he is probably liable for damages.
I see a couple of reasons Farmers would deny this claim.
1. Your son is excluded and you signed a form confirming this. See euphonium's post for possible recourse.
2. You specifically left your live-in son off of your policy so as to decrease your rates -- this is misrepresentation and may warrant a coverage denial -- though I doubt it.
-- likely he is excluded and Farmers will provide no coverage, be it first or third party.
I can really think of no other reason Farmers would deny coverage -- maybe you can share the denial letter with us, it should be pretty specific in its reasoning and likely would cite specific policy language.
Now as for your son's insurance. If he has no comp and collision and Farmers has a solid stance, you are paying out of pocket for your own damages. Also, don't think that him having comp and collision on his vehicle will neccessarily cover your vehicle in this situation. It is probable that Mercury may find some way to deny first party coverage to your vehicle as it is garaged in the same address and not on his policy -- this is a common exclusion and is meant to keep people from insuring one cheap vehicle they own and driving 50 others.
As for Mercury's liability denial -- it may be that they simply don't think your son is liable. Otherwise I can't see how they are denying coverage.
Likely what is happening with them is that they have confirmed you have a policy on your vehicle and they are taking an "excess" stance. Whereby they are excess above and beyond the coverage on your policy -- Which, with damages where they are will let them close their claim. If you advise them that Farmers has denied the claim, they will be forced to provide coverage (liability coverage) But, know that they will probably require a lot of information from Farmers -- and I can assure you it will not come quickly.
In the mean time, contact Allstate's subrogation department and tell them the claim number to both Farmers and Mercury -- it will buy you some time and get all three carriers talking in an attempt to work out coverage.
All told, I think you're going to come out of this with a bill for your own car, and the other car taken care of. You will need to be proactive though, as Allstate can simply subrogate you all day long, they don't need to work with your carrier -- especially if your carrier is disinterested (and sadly, it is)
If you want more specific suggestions, a little more information on the precise denials would be helpful. And, IMHO, never rely on an agent for anything claims related -- they are salesmen, period.
2. Does your son live in your house with you -- or is he a student and lives away from home part time?
My son lives with me full time.
3. Who owns the Corolla -- specifically, who is on the title and is it garaged in your house I actually own the Corolla and it is garaged in my house.
My agent restricted my son from my policy without really giving me a reason. He just emailed me stating that my son's insurance would cover my car in case of accident. I did sign the paperwork (without reading it fully) because I trusted my agent when he said I had better coverage than with AAA. (AAA would cover any driver using my car, but not Farmers it seems).
maybe you can share the denial letter with us, it should be pretty specific in its reasoning and likely would cite specific policy language.
I don't see anything in the denial letter stating the reason why he was left off. Should it be stated there in plain language?
Also, we finally got a letter from Mercury Insurance (my son's insurance) stating that my car is excluded from any coverage. It's a exclusion letter so I am out of luck.
I am not worried about my car repairs anymore, but really do want the other car's expenses taken care of.
I am getting the feeling that my agent is not going to be useful to me at all. Should I go over his head and talk to his supervisor instead. Or should I contact the adjuster's office again.
I feel like I am paying my premiums for nothing. Can we get the restriction lifted off of my car on my son's Mercury Insurance? Can I have my son unrestricted on my policy? He is the only one listed as restricted so does that mean that any other driver will be covered?
Thanks.
The body shop has had it for about 5 weeks now because they say they are looking for parts. They estimate at least another couple weeks until they have it to paint and get it to the Infiniti dealer for the mechanical stuff. I can't believe it wasn't totaled. The frame was bent and at this point they say I have $13,900 in damage. What does it take to total a car. I live in Florida and my insurance Co. is USAA.
I know when I get it back again it won't be worth nearly what the pre collision value was. The ins co tells me they estimated that at about $20,500. How do I figure out the post crash value? I was planning on trading in the car before the accident and now I think I'm just going to lose a ton of money. Any ideas from anyone on how to make the best of this situation? To make matters worse, the other driver was underinsured and only covered $10,000 in property damage coverage.
Thanks!
You find out how much it's worth by taking it to dealers' used car buyers and getting written bids on them buying it from you after disclosing the repaired damage. Show them photos of the damage and the repair invoice too. Don't be surprised if they don't want to even touch it at any price.
Maybe you can take a deduction for it on your income tax return as an uncompensated casualty loss. Not much consolation, I know, but that might be the best you can do.
Moving forward, you say Farmers has "restricted" your son from your policy -- If I were you I would have him show me, not tell me, but show me specifically the form you signed excluding him from your policy, and also the policy language that defines what this means -- it will likely be on the same form/endorsement you signed. They don't have to tell you why he was left off -- after all, technically, you made the decision to leave him off. They just need to show you what you signed confirming that he was left off. That will rule out Farmers as far as I'm concerned and then you can move on to Mercury.
While there are many different types of policies, typically they do not "exclude" another vehicle. If your son's Mercury policy is a standard auto policy, I would think they would be forced to provide excess coverage (liability that is.)
If your son has a commercial policy -- it is likely vehicle specific.
If your son has a named operator policy he should be covered in your vehicle (which they both are.)
Since I doubt he has a commercial policy, I would re-read that Mercury letter. What exactly is the exclusion? Call the adjuster who will be listed on the letter and ask them why your vehicle is "excluded" Ask them, if they have not included it in the denial, to send you a copy of the policy language -- or fax it ASAP. Advise them that you have received a denial from the primary carrier on that vehicle and that if there liability coverage is excess, than they will come into play.
While I would take all of these steps, If I were you I think Mercury is your best chance here for liability coverage.
Don't just take their word for it on denials, ask them to show you the policy stipulations that they are denying on. It is their burden in a denial -- if there is any ambiguity they will not deny -- or they do at their own, bad faith, risk.
my thinking is he could get written estimates of the value, but it's not likely to influence the offer. true?
An insurance company can use any of many methods to calculate an offer.
YMMV
For real? Where will that get someone?
me thinks it's disadvantageous to do so from a few perspectives, and they know this. if YOU happen to be a lawyer, can have self representation, and can spare time from work or family commitments, more power to ya.
I think the matter should have been settled in the divorce decree and the son should refuse to have any part of it until it does become settled.
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And, if Mom is on the title with Dad, while he can grant permission to drive the car, until Mom signs off, Mom owns the car if Dad has already signed off himself...
Further, if Dad HAS signed off, he can no longer grant permission to drive because he no longer owns his portion of the car...
Tell Sonny-Boy to rent a car at Hertz, buy the daily CDW (and additional liability if it is offered) and he is covered for the trip...while it may be more expensive if he rented the car for six months, for a 10 day trip he is completely covered, making it a wise purchase in the short term, IMO...
A lawyer will know all the legal talk to tell them they owe you the difference between the value of your car before they hit you...and after it is 'fixed'. It will never be the same. IF you ever sell it. So unless you intend to keep it forever, you need to be compensated. You could try on your own if you want...but...a lawyer that works on a contingancy basis should be able to help you. You know...he doesnt get paid unless YOU get money out of the other person.
If your insurance is paying for the repair, then I guess you could sue the person that hit you in small claims court. BUT then you have to wait till you sell the car..to PROVE the diminished value. A lawyer MIGHT be able to get the difference now...not when you sell. Maybe. I wasn't reading all your postings ,so I don't know who is paying for the repair, and if they had insurance or not. Or if it was a POS that hit you with no insurance. But here in Fla. IF an uninsured car hits you...I think you can sue them in small claims for your deductable at least,NOW. It will take months to get a court date and then to get the money out of them could take longer. BUT you shouldn't have to pay for anything. At least you can get that money back. YOU didn't cause the accident. Now 'certain people' will now attack me for my advise.
(You can give it a try by going to the Smart Shopper Board if you like)
What you're referring to is posting a new message, or replying to a message within a an existing discussion. That, of course, anyone can do... or we'd have NO conversation!! And of course you can change the title of your post to anything you want
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Damages on my vehicle are so far estimated at close to $12,000 and it hasn't been to the Infiniti garage yet to have them check it our and replace sensors for the airbags that deployed.
I'm talking to an attorney, but it is more about the bodily injury end of things. Sounds like there usually isn't enough money in the dimunition of value claims to make it worth their while.
My deductible has been waived by USAA. Honestly, I'm not sure who is paying for the repairs. My adjuster is next to impossible to get a hold of and I've received conflicting answers from the company. Very frustrating. I've been told I can go after rental car reimbursement and diminution of value claims before the rest of their $10,000 is used up.
You are right, I should have to suffer any losses or pay anything,but finding the right road to get there is going to be tough.
One more question? Is there a personal injury thread somewhere in this board? Thanks.
Just because she chose to not have adequate insurance doesn't mean she's not responsible for all of your damages, at least in my state. Sue the pants off of her.
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First, while it is not a rule cast in stone, most folks who carry minimum limits on auto ins usually do not have many assets, meaning that getting a judgment against her will be a piece of cake, but COLLECTING on that judgment may be impossible...the folks who have ample insurance are the people who read this board and follow my advice (...:):):):):)...) and those who have assets to protect, hence they carry insurance to pay claims and judgments...
GA had base limits of 15/30/10 up until a few years ago...now the minimum is 25/50/25...
Also, in GA, if you are awarded a judgment against a uninsured/underinsured driver, if they do not pay the judgment, their driver's license is suspended...this sounds good on paper, but the suspension can be removed if the judgment is discharged in Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, as you are no longer legally responsible to pay the debt...so, since the driver with insufficient insurance usually has no assets, you are now right back where you started from, a great judgment and no way to collect it...
The saving grace, which you may never know but it will affect them, is if they have already filed Chapter 7, and cannot file another one for 8 years after filing the first one...so, if they filed a 7 in 2003, they would have to wait for 2010 to do another 7...
The smartest thing to do is for you, your neighbors, friends, co-workers to start a massive letter campaign to your legislature to raise the minimum limits to 25/50/25...
Rather than sounding greedy for more PI benefits, attack it from the angle that more PD is necessary, since the average SUV or Chevy Impala (what used to be the "average American's car) can cost over $30K, and simply having $10K is grossly inadequate...plus, with all the BMWs, Benzs, Lexus', Infinitis out there, there are MANY vehicles who repairs could easily exceed $10K with minor to moderate damage...
Yes, it will raise everybody's premium somewhat, but minimum insurance should be set to cover most collision damage claims, and many claims will exceed $10K...
And, of course, YOU should always carry adequate collision, comprehensive, and U/M to cover your buns in a case like this...