Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents

15354565859107

Comments

  • 2beansalad2beansalad Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the advice. I think I need to take it in to a reliable place to get a more accurate estimate to see what it would cost to get it fixed right (I'm hesitant to get it just working what with a 17 month old riding in the back, and 16 hour car rides to visit the in-laws a couple times a year). The $3000 dealership quote was more than I was willing to spend on fixing it up. With this $3000 we were looking at spending, plus the $4500 cash back incentives for the Town and Country, buying a new van is VERY tempting. Thank you for your help!

    Someone expressed an interest in buying the car in the shape it's in so he can fix it up for his daughter himself. I had no idea a car with 108,000 miles was still decent -- how would you detemine a fair price for a private party?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,737
    pretty easy, really. take the private party value (obtained right here on edmunds) for one that doesn't have the problems, then subtract the amount it will cost to fix those problems.

    so you still might want to get a quote on repairs from a shop that is not affiliated with the dealer.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Bear in mind that Chrysler is revamping the '08 T&C. High rebates new means poor resale later.

    By all means get more opinions on how much it will cost to repair the damage. If the number is still out of reach, take some pics of it and put it on craigslist for $2000 or so. It should sell in about 2 hours. 108K on a Toyota is nothing.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    That implies you are about 29 years old...while your opinions certainly have value, it is quite apparent you have much to learn, as some of your views have no real world experience...this may be one place to learn some of it...Post 2833 is one reason why we pay premiums...

    Think of premiums as a yearly expense, where you insure yourself for a year...while it sounds great to invest your money in the S&P, if you had to pay out a $50K claim, you would be the first in line screaming about losing your "investment"...

    Pay your premiums and learn from here...and others...
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    If you are allergic to bee stings you should be even MORE inclined to remain calm if there is a bee with you in the car. If you go swatting around it is more likely to sting you.
    Apiphobic? Is that afraid of bees? Guess that means you are a little crazy in the head. Maybe you could get over it on your own or get therapy to help.
    I don't think an arbitrator, jury or judge would find you not responsible if you smash into someone because you were flailing away at a bee while driving. As an arbitrator I would not let you off and if I was the flailer I would not expect to get off either.


    I would think that a person with a known bee allergy or just fear of being stung by bees would ride with the windows all the way up to eliminate a chance of bee flying into the vehicle.

    Driver lowered the window, thus inviting the bee in... driver at fault.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Driver lowered the window, thus inviting the bee in... driver at fault.

    Bee flies into vehicle unbeknownst to the driver as driver enters the vehicle and subsequently stings said driver - driver at fault?

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Even if a bee stings you that is no reason to slam into an innocent party. Maybe the bee is at fault for stinging the driver, but it is the driver who rammed his car into the innocent party.
    So yeah, driver at fault for the accident.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    no reason to slam into an innocent party

    Oh, I see, you can control your response to autonomic reflexes or allergic reactions. Interesting. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Sorry, you are wrong. I looked it up.
    Ramming your car into an innocent party is not an autonomic reflex nor is it a reaction to an allergy.
    Ask your doctor if you don't believe it.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    108,000 miles on a Toyota is like 18,000 miles on a domestic. It's virtually brand new! Especially for a Camry!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    While I might not have the most real work experience, I certainly have more than "none" as you stated. If I was born yesterday, I'd agree I have no real world experience.

    But just because 1% of you out there have had a BIG TIME at fault claim to an insurance company, does not mean that Insurance is a good investment, or if you don't want to call it that, a good buy, or a good value, or good protection.

    I know some people value peace of mind more than I do, and that's fair. Some people are willing to take on more risk in order to Make/save more money. (That's me!) I wouldn't have collision coverage if I could get comprehensive by itself. I wouldn't probably have either if I have Lojack and COULD have UMBI and UMPD for more than $3,500 coverage w/o it! Which you can't in CA (for UMPD), shamefully.

    Anyway, Insurance companies appear to make record profits year after year. If only 1% of the people are having major claims, and the average major claim is 35K, (and I don't know what the exact statistical data really is, this is just an example), shouldn't my premiums be 1/100th of 35K a year? Maybe adding 15% for overhead and profit? Thats only about $400 a year. Why aren't insurance companies more honest and open about there financials.

    Why can I get 10 quotes varying anywhere from $900/yr. to 2,500 per year? Something is sinister in the system!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Not delusional..... I drove my parents '95 Camry around for a few years and got it up to 101K miles. Never had an issue with repairs other than maintenance and key lock cylinders (the keys wore out). I needed the car because my '95 domestic (first car) had 65K miles on it and was about $5,000 in the hole in repair costs already, with no end in sight!

    My parents took back the '95 Camry and only got rid of it about a year ago and sold it to a friend for $3,500 with about 125K miles.

    My parents reported no repair costs, and I asked them about it too! By the way, that '95 domestic that got traded in YEARS ago was offerred $800 by the dealer on trade-in (that was there first low ball offer) My parents told me they got them up to $3,000 on it for trade in, but only after they agreed to pay more for the new car they were getting, oh yeah, a 2001 Camry.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Ramming your car into an innocent party is not an autonomic reflex nor is it a reaction to an allergy.

    Now that we know you're not serious, I suggest we get back to the designated topic and try to be serious. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    So funny how some of you are delusional about Toyotas.

    Yeb, I have to agree. I had a corolla, an avalon and 2 camry and I always have problems. :confuse:
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Well, I'm glad you had good luck with that Camry. My Toyata's motor blew up at 58,000 miles.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    "Oh, I see, you can control your response to autonomic reflexes or allergic reactions. Interesting"

    Now THAT was a ridiculous statement.
    I was being serious. You were not.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Let's move on.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    It's virtually brand new

    Are you dillusional or what? 108K miles is still a ton of wear and tear: brakes, tires, batteries, etc. Don't get me wrong, I have 3 Toyotas and 1 Honda in my family and all have been great, but items do wear out. But I have replaced the radiator on the Honda and could replace the driver's door handle if things with it get worse. And my Tundra had three bad tires when I purchased it and I had to go to the GM to get a matching set. And the thing I hate about Toyotas is that "most" dealers are a royal pain in the butt to deal with.
  • lilyowenlilyowen Member Posts: 125
    Both of you are kind of flirting with the issue here. Truly, I'm with joe ... with an exception ... that exception is to lean toward Tidester. Got that?

    A bee sting, regardless of allergy, should not cause you to ram into another vehicle -- I think you would be hard pressed to prove that a reaction was that violent and uncontrollable. That being said, you've both touched on the "Act of God" defense here. For instance: Man in perfect health, sees Dr. every year, no family history of illness has a stroke and runs over a kid due to unforseen stroke. This may not be the man's fault and he may not be liable.

    The key thing here is forseeability. A stroke may cause such a reaction. A bee sting? I doubt it. But if you know you are allergic to bees, move away from states with bees.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    have comprehensive and collision insurance is to protect the lender while you make payments on your car...it is so THEY will be immediately paid if your car is totalled, burned or stolen...

    Once your car is paid off, you can drop comp and collision, altho most folks don't if their car has any value...

    The insurance is quasi-guaranteed to pay off if you make a claim...your theory of placing $$$ in the S&P will only work if you actually DO IT...plus, your S&P fund may have grown to $20K, but the accident you cause may cost $75K when it's all over...what do you intend to do...write the victims a promissory note and make payments to them over then next 30 years???...that'll be the day...

    Your thinking process has more gaps in logic than the Mexican border has underground tunnels...

    Insurance, while not perfect, seems the least of the evils out there...
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    move away from states with bees.

    I still maintain that a wardrobe, that included a beekeepers suit, would be the most appropriate if one were allergic to bees.

    I will agree with a previous poster though, a cement block dropped on your cars windshield, while going under a highway overpass, parallel with ones lap, may possibly not be the drivers fault if an accident should occur.

    P.S This is my last post on bees... please make it yours. :sick:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    I refuse to flirt with issues.

    The key thing in negligence is whether the actor's behavior was reasonable under the circumstances.
  • msindallasmsindallas Member Posts: 190
    The liability insurance has a limit, right? $25K, or $50K, something like that. Now, If I keep that entire money (the legal requirement) available in a bank account with some kind of note that it can be used only in case of an auto-accident, will that note serve as my proof of insurance? In that case, I will not have to pay the insurance premiums - I can be "self-insured". Any argument as to why this is not allowed?
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    it is allowed in some states.

    website shows:
    In Maine, Title 29-A - §1611. Insurance, bond or self-insurance required

    a car can be registered, the owner...
    Presenting a good and sufficient indemnity bond, approved by the Secretary of State, bonding the applicant in an amount the Secretary of State prescribes and having as surety 2 responsible individuals or a surety company authorized to transact business in this State; [1995, c. 65, Pt. A, §153 (aff); Pt. B, §16 (amd); Pt. C, §15 (aff).]

    Very risky idea in my view though. $25,000 or $50,000 does not go very far towards paying medical bills, wage loss or pain and suffering if one or more people are injured.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Investing your 50k in the market would do you better. If everybody did what you are proposing, how would higher jury awards be satisfied and insurance agents wouldn't earn their usual 15 to 20 per cent commission. ;)
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    That's also pretty much what is done here in Florida for certain businesses for their commercial insurance. They need to have a sufficient indemnity bond to maintain their license. Nice idea, but definatey agree that 25K or 50K is not enough.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Self insurance is allowed, I believe, in GA, too...you are correct...you must post a bond equal to the minimum limits which are 25/50/25...

    Just as many large companies self insure for Work Comp, the same can be said for auto liability...few do, but it can be done...

    Previous poster was talking about putting a nominal amount in growth investments and waiting for it to grow, if I understood correctly...you must be able to post the full bond, not make payments...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Wait.... tires, brakes... batteries.... Heck, I don't think the car would still be running if they hadn't all been replaced AT least once, if not twice by the time you reach 108K miles.

    Those are maintenance items, not repair items. No car can or should have to go with zero maintenance. Of course tires, brakes, and batteries wear out. But what shouldn't wear out are the head gaskets, auto transmissions, engines, o2 sensors, seals and gaskets, o rings, parking brakes, A/C compressors (only refrigerant, not the compressor), windshields, dashboards, ect. All those things should last 200K easy or 12 years at least.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    You can remove comp and collision if you own the car outright, but you can't get a darn insurance company to take off collision and leave on comprehensive! Why I say! Why!!!!

    Corruption the maximum degree is the answer.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    it's the risk someone w/o insurance or self insurance will hit you and cause damage.

    Again, the worst drivers are the one's with either Insurance companies that don't pay on claims or don't have insurance.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    On my last renewal I deleted Collision on both cars, keeping the Comprehensive & U.M. B.I. AND P.D. My company is Encompass.

    Yours is the first time I've heard of requiring Collision when covering Comprehensive.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,778
    You have comprehensive... but, no collision...

    Driving home late one night, you misjudge a curve and ride into the ditch, doing several thousand dollars of damage to your still driveable car..

    If you drive it home, you are out $5K.. If you take it down the old farm lane and burn it, then report it stolen, your insurance company will make you whole.

    You might not do this, but many people facing a catastrophic loss would.

    I remember an old Herman comic strip.. The guy is sitting in his insurance agent's office.. "I need as much fire insurance as I can get by next Friday". :surprise:

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    how do you explain the dented and twisted sheet metal? :blush:
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    why would you insure the car against fire, theft and vandalism, but not insure it in the event of a collision???

    Please, spend your $$$ as you wish, but, as I filter this thru my feeble mind, I cannot understand the logic of self insuring against damage other than a wreck, but not a wreck itself...

    Care to enlighten???
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    For a lot of people, paying for comprehensive coverage is a really good deal because they often get a cracked/chipped windshield from a rock, or worse yet, drive thru a little sandstorm and end up with every piece of glass and every painted panel on the car slightly sandblasted. Hail is another hazard which might be common where a person lives. The resulting damage can be several thousand dollars in the latter cases, and up to $1000 or so in the former. Some insureds' will take cash in lieu of repair, sell the damaged cars and replace them, coming out money ahead. Some living close to Mexico need theft coverage if they own certain brands and models that are often carnapped and taken south. If an owner feels lucky and is (over?) confident in his skills as a driver, he might choose against paying for collision coverage but still want comprehensive.
  • astropupastropup Member Posts: 11
    Have you ever, or do you know someone that has had to pay expenses out of pocket from a lawsuit where they were at fault?

    Um...I have a friend that made a turn into a litigious person. The person was fine at the accident, the damage to the cars was minor, but has since claimed to have severe back injuries requiring multiple surgeries. My friend is being sued for an amount that far exceeds the limits of coverage. They also received a letter stating from the insurance company (a large company with a good reputation) that they may want to seek their own legal counsel, although the company is providing them with a lawyer. My friend has met with a lawyer who didn't seem too concerned, like the lawsuit was rather routine. Still, it is very frightening. My friend doesn't really have assets to go after, but worries about a judgment hanging over their head.

    So, my question is, how concerned should they be? I've heard that it is very unlikely that they would be impacted, but is this so? Do you or have you been in this situation? And, how did it turn out? Thank you. :cry:
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    If a negligent driver ends up with a judgment against him is excess of his policy limits, his company will pay the limit and the driver would owe the balance. If the driver does not fully pay the balance of the judgment, he will likely have his license suspended until the judgment is satisfied or until the victim forgives the debt and signs a motion allowing driver to get his license back. I suppose if the victim properly files the legal papers, the debtor's wages could be garnished and/or his property seized and sold by court order to satisfy the judgment. Faced with that, some debtors might seek relief through bankruptcy.

    Here's a question though, what if a driver causes damages which all parties agree are clearly far in excess of his policy limits?
    Would his company voluntarily pay (even before a lawsuit or trial) the limit only if the victim would sign a full release protecting its insured? That is, would the company, in exchange for the policy limit payment, require the victim to agree not to pursue any further claim against its insured? Or, would the company be satisfied in only getting a receipt for for the amount paid (before a lawsuit or trial) to the victim, leaving open the possibility of legal action against its insured for some additional amount? And in that case (no release), would the company still pay for the defense of its driver (after paying the limit) if a lawsuit was filed later?
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,203
    "...If you take it down the old farm lane and burn it..."

    Please don't encourage this. I have enough junk vehicles on my property as it is. Most of them I still drive. :sick:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,203
    "...being sued for an amount that far exceeds the limits of coverage..."

    A lawyer once told me that when you file a lawsuit you take the figure you are looking to recover and then you put a zero on the end of it. I guess in the legal field, to find out later that you did not sue for enough, is bad form.

    I would also assume that the attorney filing the suit would research the limits of your policy and be aiming to recover that amount.

    As to how it will turn out, you may never know. Many times your insurance company will settle with the other party and never tell you for how much.

    It seems that the secret is to have enough insurance that the company will retain an attorney for you because they have a large exposure but to not have so much insurance that you attract frivolous lawsuits.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    I've wondered the same thing recently astropup. A friend was involved in an accident about 3 years ago. He says the other guy was at fault... but who knows. After several years, out of the blue, he is served papers saying he is being sued. The guy in the other car is claiming he hasn't been able to work for the past 2 years and is seeking damages for medical expenses and lost wages. My friend was very worried and started moving his money and assets, as I believe the amount exceeded what he was covered for. The case ended up being settled by the insurance company. But, they wouldn't tell him what they settled for.

    Not sure how much in personal liability I have, may be around $250,000. I better check. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    A person with a history of litigation would be questionable in my eyes if I were on the jury. Some people have made a business of suing much like some take foster kids and adopt kids as an income rather than a good deed.

    I was on a jury where the pattern for the injured person just didn't fit right. Too many questionable things in her past. The pictures of the small Honda she was in didn't show damage commensurate, in my educated opinion, to have bcaused the huge back injury claim. She (and her litigious attorney who specializes in accident claims before advertising for vicitims on TV was common here in the Midwest) hoped for hundreds of thousands and got $5000.

    Another mistake was leaving a person with medical knowledge on the jury. Between her knowlege of the spine and my knowlege we pretty much quelched the big claim.

    So let them sue. They need to have a good case showing at risk behavior on the part of the at fault party.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    > The guy in the other car is claiming he hasn't been able to work for the past 2 years

    My second phone call would be to a private investigator to check into finances, credit card use, off the books jobs, etc., for that fellow for two years.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • astropupastropup Member Posts: 11
    There is a dearth of good information about this on the web. Everything is very vague. I keep reading that the sue-ee is liable for anything beyond their limits; however, everyone says not to worry and that in reality it never happens. What do others know that I don't. It's very frightening, and seems crazy that such a minor accident can turn into such a large lawsuit. It seems that the only people that will really gain from this are the lawyers. In the end, the plaintiff has run around to so many doctors that they are unlikely to cover their bills given the insurance limits and my friend's lack of assets. It seems crazy.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    My second phone call would be to a private investigator to check into finances, credit card use, off the books jobs, etc., for that fellow for two years.

    All of that is quite expensive. One more reason why we need reforms in the tort system. It's as simple as the one who loses pays the others expenses. And the attorney who took the losing case is also on the hook.
  • astropupastropup Member Posts: 11
    Amen. It's really out of control. I know of a half a dozen good, law-abiding people that have been sued for frivolous reasons. I don't know of anyone that has been helped by suing someone else. It's like a game between the trial lawyers on both sides of the aisle. They get rich off of all this at the expense of both the defendants... and even the plaintiffs that allow themselves to be led along the most expensive route possible through various medical doctors, specialists, etc. All to build a case that will ultimately benefit the plaintiff's lawyer most of all.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    excess of policy limits, that driver IS personally responsible for the balance...assuming no DUI, it can be dicshraged in bankruptcy, but it depends whether or not they will qualify for Ch 7 or not...

    Cases often settle for policy limits, but almost always settle for LESS, but, it really depends on the meds, lost wages, and the policy limits...you would be amazed at how many cases settle for less than $10K...

    We often file suit because of absolutely ridiculous offers from Ins Co...example...say $5,000 in PD, $3,000 in treatment (not a lot, really), $1,500 in lost wages...if this case settled between $7-10,000, that would be OK...but what would YOU do if the insurance offered only $2,000 for the whole thing???...am I clogging the courts by filing suit???...would YOU accept $2K when your meds plus earnings are $4,500 and they offer $2,000???...

    I do not remember when, but a number of years ago, a lawyer was sued by their client for malpractice because the lawyer asked the jury for $46,000, and the jury awarded $69,000...the lawyer did not ask for enough, thereby damaging his own client...now, it is better to ask for the moon so at least you won't be liable for asking too little...

    Bear in mind, the amount you sue for in your complaint has NO bearing on the amount you will eventually win, if you win at all...

    I still say that having high limits on your ins liability, plus a cheap umbrella policy, is the best protection you can have, so as not to worry about it...

    Just because you HAVE one million in coverage does not mean that it will be awarded...that is one misconception that spreads like wildfire...having a million dollar lawsuit, if the case is only worth $10K, then they will not be a million dollar payout...
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,778
    I have a good answer for this...

    ...but, I don't want to encourage the criminals on the board... ;)

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • astropupastropup Member Posts: 11
    Someone that is legitamately injured should be compensated fairly. I don't think anyone would argue with that.

    But, how many cases are legitimate? As I mentioned earlier, every case that I'm aware of was not. You have to understand that toll that it takes on the person being unfairly sued. It is very stressful having a financial sword of Damocles hangin over your head, having no idea what will happen. It also causes the defendants insurance to go up. One small business owner ended up paying double after a lawsuit that did something stupid that they were told not to do.

    As for insurance companies offering small amounts...in my friend's case the plaintiff never went to the insurance company, they went straight to a lawyer, that has provided no medical information about the case. So naturally, the insurance company made a small settlement offer.

    I'm sure there are a fair amount of personal injury lawyers that are good, honest caring people. But, I suspect that they are outnumbered by the less scrupulous. Tort reform is badly needed. People shouldn't live in fear that the slightest mistep will land them in the poorhouse. The trial industry needs to get its house in order and quit living like parasites off of the rest of us.
  • noaagirlnoaagirl Member Posts: 16
    How do you figure out what the right limits are for liability? My DH and I are reviewing our insurance policy coverage now because I am buying a new car, and we do have some (not exhorbitant, but more every day) assets we'd like to protect. We live in a lawyer-rich as well as illegal immigrant/uninsured/underinsured area (DC metro area) and we're considering adding a $1M umbrella policy as well. My agent (who I am completely happy with) is providing me with a raft of quotes on different levels of coverage - but I am struggling with figuring out what is the best for us.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Considering your location facts and future income, I recommend you have a minimum of two million umbrella.
Sign In or Register to comment.