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You say actual loss must be proved? If the term actual loss means the car must actually be sold to figure the DV, then the problem is how much the car was worth before the accident. It can only be estimated. A guess. That is problematic as it still requires a step of faith by the fact finder. Unless the owner sold the car just before the accident and then sold it again after all repairs were completed (and how could he?) , what actual numbers would there be to figure the DV?
Your gut says 40% is absurd? That does not matter one iota. Unless your gut is called as an expert witness, that is. Even an expert's gut would not be good evidence. Some comparable car sales figures are needed if you are trying to persuade someone. A car sales manager or auction house could help with that. Used car guides might be used too.
In a way, DV is similar to accepting cash in lieu of repair. Property damages can be proved and collectible even if the repairs are not done. When a person smashes into your car, and it is his fault, you can expect to recover the estimated cost of the repairs whether or not you decide to get the car repaired, or sell it, or drive it off a cliff. It makes no difference.
Many, maybe even most new car dealerships do not even want a trade-in if it has had severe damage. They don't want to knowingly re-sell a car like that to any customer of theirs.
Thanks for the support.
I'm in CA and found the Insurance Commissioner to be feeble and powerless to help me. Perhaps Bristol West and Eastwood Insurance were fined for their transgressions, but I'll never know nor can I find out what punishment, if any, was doled out because of their "clerical examiner error," that they admitted to in writing.
And the cost of the repairs escalated significantly as additional damage was discovered during the repair process, correct?
If this is your situation, sorry, it happens sometimes.
Now, if I've read your posts wrong and they have yet to start fixing the vehicle, then your course is simple: don't authorize the work, fight a bit, and the vehicle will be totalled.
I am a Florida resident.
I planned on driving the GA until I or it fell apart. The accident has deprived me of this. With the KBB value under $3,000, I will be the one who loses the most, although I was not at fault. Can I somehow recoup the future value/personal worth of the GA? I have to buy another car, which I hadn't planned on. I have to shop the dealers which takes time away from my normal schedule, which I hadn't planned on. The KBB value will in NO WAY replace the car. I am innocent, not at fault, yet I am being punished for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I sue the Chevy driver, am I limited to a small claims court? I am mad as hell.:mad: TIA for your help.
In the infamous words of Bill Gates as he addressed a graduating class, "Sometimes life just sucks, get used to it". Without any injuries, all you're going to get is the value of the GA at the time of the accident, lost wages, and maybe a rental for a month. I'm assuming the at fault driver was insured.
If you can provide documentation and a convincing argument as to why your particular Grand Am is worth more than what they think it is worth, then you have a chance of getting them to make a higher offer. If their final offer is still way too low, you can file a small claims lawsuit against the other driver for up to the limit in whatever that court is called in your area. No doubt it is more than $3000, so you could offer the judge your proof for the car's value and the rental expenses you've had to pay. Itemize ALL your car damage related expenses and document them. You might get lucky.
The problem is you'd be without your car and without payment for quite a while until your case is heard. Also, if you choose to pay your own money for a rental, it will be at the risk of not getting any of it back after the trial. Why? Because the judge may decide the company's total loss and rental offer to you was fair in the first place. Then you are out a good wad of cash, including your filing and trial costs.
Check out your options with a lawyer who knows the law in your area, or research it yourself. You probably won't need (and in many cases are prohibited from having) a lawyer in small claims court.
You should punish them back. As you felt the impact you should have thrown yourself out of the car and laid on the pavement screaming "My career with the Ballet is over!" Next, call one of the "heavy hitter" lawyers you see on TV at 3a.m. and sue everybody in sight. :P The great American lawsuit lottery, don't ya love it? :sick:
Seriously, having an older car totaled is a pain. My own 97 was dinged in a parking lot a few months ago and I was worried they would total it and leave me on foot. With those old cars you can never replace them for what they're worth.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You can work yourself into a long term frenzie over this (trying to sue for whatever), or you can just take what is reasonable for a car this age and condition and move on.
You got dealt a bad hand (not as bad as if there were personal injuries so be thankful), handle it quickly and move on. Life is way too short to dwell on the negatives. Think of the devastation some folks have had with recent disasters/fires/floods. In the grand scheme of things, this is a minor life inconvenience of some material hunk of metal.
Look at the positive side, that GA was just about ready to have a major engine/transmission problem which it would then be worthless....so count your blessings! Go upgrade your driver with something that has all of the latest safety features.
i think this is really slippery.
So in future, I'd better check the depreciation of any car I'm thinking of buying!
You might get 1-3-5 days rental to hunt for a new car, but whoever said you could get a month (unless it is your own rental insurance), no way...liability will NOt pay for a month's rental while you car shop...
my question is how do I determine what my car is worth now? you can't tell by looking at the car that it had been wrecked before. it is in great shape. runs like it is new. according to edmunds in good shape is should get me about $12800 but not sure since it had been wrecked.
Um...I have a friend that made a turn into a litigious person. The person was fine at the accident, the damage to the cars was minor, but has since claimed to have severe back injuries requiring multiple surgeries. My friend is being sued for an amount that far exceeds the limits of coverage. They also received a letter stating from the insurance company (a large company with a good reputation) that they may want to seek their own legal counsel, although the company is providing them with a lawyer. My friend has met with a lawyer who didn't seem too concerned, like the lawsuit was rather routine. Still, it is very frightening. My friend doesn't really have assets to go after, but worries about a judgment hanging over their head.
So, my question is, how concerned should they be? I've heard that it is very unlikely that they would be impacted, but is this so? Do you or have you been in this situation? And, how did it turn out? Thank you.
According to NY state, if the damages exceed the insurance coverage, and the judgement is entered against the defendant. Plaintif CAN NOT collect any more than the insurance coverage. So, if one has state minimum coverage ($50,000), but the damages exceed that and a judgement is entered in that amount, let's say $2,000,000, plaintiff can only colelct $50,000 and not a cent more.
This is in NY, other states may have different laws.
Yea, I'd like to know that also. I seem to recall that lawyers here in NY will usually only sue for the policy limits but I didn't know there were any legal limits. I just thought that the lawyers would not sue for money that was too difficult to collect.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Carfax is not 100% accurate. How did you discover the damage and can they determine the extent?
blueiedgod: I would be interested in that cite myself...for a state to pass a law like that is beyond foolish, plus contrary to public policy, otherwise everyone would only buy minimum limits, as they would never be responsible for anything beyond that...while I only know GA, I find it incredible to believe that NY would do soemthing like that...whether or not the excess is collectible is always another story, of course...
If the liability coverage is exhausted, then U/M will usually kick in, BUT YOU MUST OPEN A CLAIM TO NOTIFY THEM OF THE POSSIBILITY OF A U/M CLAIM, as it is not automatic...
They will cover injuries, pain and suffering, and lost earnings, similar to the liability coverage (altho they are known for NOT being generous)...
Diminished Value: unknown...
I recently got rear ended on my car and the other guy tried to make a deal with me to fix the car by himself so that he can be saved off the insurance hike. I initially said OK but when I had shown up neck and head injuries that evening, I went ahead and filed aclaim with my insurance and went for medical treatment.
Here is the situation.
I am with an insurance company A, got 500/1000/500 coverage with a $5K medpay and also Un/Under Insurued coverage as well(I am a strict student of Marsha's school here, I took the U/M, medpay and what not all of the suggestions from Marsha, thanks Teacher
The other guy is with insruance company B.
Now my company is taking care of my claim and I am going through the medical treatment etc.
My ins company is saying that they will start paying my medical payments but I am right now using my employement based medical insurance to start with.
My question: What is MedPay,Why not I can use my employment based insruace for all of my treatment and my Company A will pay all my medical bills at the end directly to me?(this is where my MedPay comes into picture?)
What about company B's responsibility on my medical bills? As the company B is at fault, they must be paying all my medical bills?
I am clearly confused here, can some one guide me the right direction?
Also, What are the responsibilites of My Ins Company A and the other Insurance company B(which is at fault)?
I know that I am a student here, I want to learn from you guys..
Thanks in advance.
:confuse:
The reason for using medpay is this: USUALLY, when you use group insurance, they want to be paid back (i.e. subrogate) out of your eventual settlement from Insurance B...so, if your group ins paid out $4K, and you recovered $10K, you must pay out $4K back to group for what they paid out...
If you use medpay, they usually do NOT need to be reimbursed out of your settlement, whcih, in my example above, would put $4K more in your pocket, simply for the mere cost of paying for the medpay, usually between $50-200 per year...nice payback, when you see the numbers...
Plus, medpay usually pays first dollar, no deductible, and no copays (at least, that is how we do it in GA)...so, if you had a $250 deductible, a $20 copay, if you saw a provider for 20 visits, you would pay out $650...medpay should be zero from your pocket...that $650 for deductible and copays could almost pay for 5-10 years worth of medpay premiums...that is why when someone tells me that medpay (assuming it is available) isn't worth it because they have group insurance, they often have no idea what they are talking about, as the copays alone will often exceed the medpay premium many times over...
Assuming a fault state, Insurance B should NEVER be told you have any ins paying your med bills, negotiate for pain and suffering as tho those bills are not paid, as your damages are your damages, and the at-fault sompany should never have the opportunity to reduce your settlement simply because you were smart enough to have alternative ins to pay your doc bills...
Just to make it better, if your meds were $15K, and group paid $12K, you would have to reimburse them the $12K...but medpay would allow you to put that $12K in your pocket...so, you pay a premium of, say, $50-200 per year, and put $12K tax free into your pocket...hard to make me believe that medpay is not a wise purchase...naturally, this only works if you are injured in a wreck, but the cost is nominal if you never have a wreck...it just seems to be the smartest gamble in the insurance world, with a decent liklihood that you could use it anytime, and more than once if you have multiple wrecks...
Plus, your group covers you and your family only, whereas medpay covers anybody in the car, so if my family is in your back two rows of your SUV, we, too, are covered by your medpay and so we never have doctors hounding us for payment while waiting for the case to settle 6-9-12 months down the road...
Medpay is a no brainer...in fact, it is so simple (yes, here we go again), that even a caveman knows enough to have medpay thru his GEICO.....:):):):):)
wow! that sounds like something that SHOULD be illegal. You sue for your "medical expenses" but the money never actually goes to medical expenses. hmmm...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I always remember that you will stress on the importance of MedPay and UI coverages in each and every message from you. I am glad that I am able to pick those points and follow them.
Now coming to my case, as per your responce, I think that I did a mistake.
I told the other party's insurance company (B) that I will go through my insurance company(A) and they (A) will follow the other party insurance(B).
In this case, My insurance company (B) is spending on my PD and Medical bills(from my medpay) and then they will collect the same amount from the other party's insurance (B)
If this is the case, How come my MedPay and my insurance with my company(A) is useful for me?
I am planning to do this
Talk to my Insurance company (A) and tell them that I will pay all my bills at this moment, and submit the bills once the treatment is done..
Talk to the other party Insurance company(B) and telling the same.
Once done, submit the bills to both of them, inform my group insurnace ang get the total bills
Once A and B paid(I am thinking crazy here, I am confused, why do they both will pay me??) and pay back my group insurance company.
Now I am sure that I am either confused or talking crazy here, I need help in understanding this.
Thanks again ,
Why should the person/ins co who must compensate you for the damage they caused you get a break...what if a rich uncle paid your $12K in med bills...should liability get a $12K discount because you had a rich uncle???...why shouldn't your damages be calculated as your damages, regardless of whether or not something or someone paid a part of them???
If your rich uncle gave you $10K, as a legal gift, to offset your $10K in lost wages, shouldn't your claim still document the $10K you lost as earnings???...should the at fault party, or their ins co, get a $10K discount because your lost earnings were not lost???
Tort law goes back quite far, and damages are calculated as the damages, and that is why the liab carrier should NEVER know if any part of your loss was compensated by something that YOU may have had but the next guy does not...
That is why medpay, to me, is beyond a no brainer, because it is so cheap to buy and can make your life easier, but only if you are involved in a wreck with injuries and med bills...
If you use your own medical insurance from work to pay your medical bills, almost every paper you sign will ask if someone else is responsible for the bills, if you have other insurance, if someone caused the injury that resulted in these bills, etc, etc, etc...
If you collect on those medical bills from someone else, or through some other insurance policy, you can bet that your employer-based medical insurance will want reimbursement.
(not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV)
regards,
kyfdx
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Yesterday I paid a surprise visit to the body shop. My car was sitting out front and no one was around so I thought I'd check it out. The first thing I noticed is that the vehicle was unlocked! In a city with one of the ten highest crime rates in the country I thought this need would go without saying. As I carefully looked over my car I noticed a number of disturbing imperfections. There were deep scratches below the headlights on the left side that were not there before the accident. There was a clearly visible paint drip on the right front fender (the car was T boned on the right side). The leading edge of the passenger side door (a replacement) was not painted. The body molding was not mounted flush on the door and there was a visible gap between the molding and the door. There was a visible dip in the door that was a sign of poor bodywork. I'm no expert, but I did work in my Dad's body shop at his car dealership during high school and I can tell shoddy work when I see it. The chrome moldings around the doors didn't fit tightly against the body, the trunk lid didn't fit right, the spoiler wasn't drawn up tight against the body and had nicks out of it, their were fish eyes the paint....I could go on, but my fingers are getting tired. The manager of the shop made notes of all these imperfections and tried to dismiss most of them. When I pointed out the dip and ripples in my repainted door he said "that's the way the come from the junkyard". Arghh!!
He said all these issues would be fixed before I was to pick up the car. Obviously, the insurance company has not paid them yet. I'm sure I missed some issues because it was the end of the day on Friday and the shop was shutting down.
My question is: Do I have to accept the car if I feel the repairs have not been adequately completed? When new this was nearly a $40K car built to exacting tolerances. Now anyone who knows cars can plainly see this was a car that was hit and haphazardly repaired. If I don't take the car, what repercussions can their be against me? My rental car bill is huge and continues to skyrocket. My supposition is when I go to pick up the car it will not have been restored to precrash condition. What are my options? Thanks. :confuse:
The reason I ask is that my G35 Infiniti was T boned a couple months ago and the initial estimate was for $8K. The final cost after repairs was over $16K. In short, I think the first estimate was grossly underestimated and was done so to prevent totaling the vehicle. Even the manager of the repair shop told me recently that if they knew the full extend of the damage the car would most likely have been totalled. He agreed with me that insurance companies don't like to total too many vehicles and lose money.
Now that the car is repaired and has lost most of it's value, what can I do? I really feel I have been ripped off.
Thanks.
I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but this appears to me to be a case where the damage to my car was grossly underestimated knowing full well it would most likely require more repairs and at that point it is too late to total the car. The ins co saved $$$ my not having to pay out actual cash value to me and the repair shop makes $$$ by getting a big job. The only one who loses $$$ is me by getting back a car whose post accident cash value is several thousands less than it was pre accident.
It is quite difficult to get any automobile professional to give an opinion on DV. The big dealers say they would never take my car as a trade in because of the history of damage. They would never sell a car like that to one of their customers. I read somewhere on this forum about getting an opinion from a lender, but now I can't find the posting.
My Dad has always told me, "a car is worth exactly whatever someone is willing to pay for it". True, but doesn't help me much when submitting figures to the ins co.
That said, I can understand your frustration at so-called professionals underestimating the damage by half.
As far as the DV figure is concerned, that's easy. IIRC, you said that you had been contemplating a trade prior to the crash. Ok, when you get it back, trade it immediately. Whatever you get for it is a hard number (not some damned estimate of its value) and the value of the DV claim is readily established.
The prestige is maintained by their awarding you what your car was worth prior to the crash and they get to keep the remains.
The local dealer offered me $18K as a trade in and after talking to them now they say they would, in theory, offer me 8K for the car. In actuality, they would never take the car and sell a vehicle with that kind of damage to their customers.
Let's say your hospital bill is $10K, but your ins is a PPO or HMO, and only is contractually obligated to pay $7K...when reimbursement time comes, you get to take advantage of the ins forced discount ($3K) so when you pay back, you only pay back $7K, as the hospital accepts the $7K as payment in full...whereas it would almost be impossible for me to negotiate the $10K down, simply because they are under the (mistaken) impression that we get 4-5X meds when we settle, when it is more like 1.5-2.5X meds, and the money from PI simply ain't like it used to be...
Just didn't want anyone to get the impression that they could have their employer-based insurance pay for their medical bills, and not have to pay them back if they collected elsewhere..
However... you can buy all the life insurance you want.. and when you die, they will all pay off..
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"If I sell term I can't eat, if I sell whole life I can't sleep"...insurance company proverb...
The adjustors job is to get an initial feel for the cost of the repair and to make an educated decision as to whether it's worth it or not. Many things aren't discovered until after the shop starts getting into the job - that's why they do supplemental appraisals.
About 4 years ago I was involved in an accident where the rear tire came off the car in the next lane and hit the nose of my car. The initial estimate was for around $5K. By the time the repairs were completed, my insurer was into it for almost $14K - for a 6 YO Accord!! Drivetrain damage wasn't discovered until structure and cooling system damage was fixed (couldn't start the car). At that point, they fix it because they don't want to eat what they've already spent.
Two years later, I was t-boned in the same car. Same bodyshop did everything they could to get it up to the total amount. They had it up to almost $7K in damages. The insurance company insisted on repairing it. The feeling I got was that they refused to total it because they had too much invested in it.
Instead, I got trade in values for it repaired and they were in the $4K range. I sold if for scrap and pocketed the check and moved on. If I were you, I'd investigage DV and then trade it in and move on as well.
As for dimished value, it varies from state to state. MA does not allow for diminished value claims.
Are you saying that if you collect under medpay, that any overpayments belong to you??