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I know a lot of Ins. co.'s say it's just the same but in reality it's not and you have a tough time selling the car or even trading it in if it was more than a fender bender
I will be moving there soon and I can find a thing on the Internet and I can't seem to find anyone who knows. The Insurance guide someone posted doesn't list anything for NH either.
Is that standard industry practice or just your way of looking at it?
IMHO, an overpayment by any insurance company is an overpayment.
Do not confuse this with a different situation, where doctors can bill multiple insurances for your treatment (medpay, group ins, and any other you may have, like AAA auto club accident insurance), but can only keep the amount that pays their bill in full, any overages must be refunded to the carrier...
But if you paid out for medpay, and medpay pays your bills, the liability carrier should not be informed of that, because your damages, even if partially paid by medpay, are still your total damages, and you should be compensated by liability ins on the basis of your TOTAL damages...
You may argue this all you want, but this is how tort law is handled in GA...your full damages are not diminished because you were smart enough to buy medpay (1st party insurance, BTW) to help offset your treatment bills...
You may argue this all you want, but this is how tort law is handled in GA...
I won't argue since I don't know the law but I would qualify your statements with the latter part of the quoted text. Without that qualification, many people might generalize your statement and expect it to be true in all states and cases since you seem to be the de facto expert in this forum.
While general principles will often apply across the board, YMMV...
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I just asked my adjuster to not to tell the MedPay (or any of my insurance coverage numbers with my insurance company to the other AT FAULT insurnce company). She said that She need to tell them if they ask but she wont tell them on her own about MedPay.
Now I am going to call her and tell her its not necessary to tell them the MedPay as per the law that you referred above. BTW, I live in CA
kirstie: put it in my profile???...do folks actually read profiles of others...especially my profile???
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
See what I mean?
You have to be careful of what you say on the 'net without the proper warnings.
I'd remove it, but I am afraid of being sentenced to federal prison...:):):):):)
My heart would skip a beat if I was normal, but, as an attorney, I do not have a heart, so there is nothing that can skip a beat...:):):):):)
The body shop manager told me that as soon as my vehicle got to their shop the adjustor from my Ins Co. knew the vehicle should have probably been totaled. He insisted on moving on the with the repairs, however, and you see how long it took. I'm seriously concerned about the safety of the car since virtually the entire right side of the car had to be replaced.
I've gone to dealers to try to determine diminished value. They have used Kelly Blue Book trade in values as a starting point, and what they would now be willing to pay as a trade in as an ending value. The difference is DV. Is this a good method? My Ins Co. adjustor estimated the actual cash value at $20,500. Shouldn't that be used as a starting point rather than the mid $16K trade in values from Kelley BB? Using only Kelley, the difference trade in wise is only between $4 and $5K at most This makes a big difference in determining the total DV.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Most of the parts were coded "F" for foreign. Obviously, they were not made in the US, but what other implications can using over $8300 in Foreign parts have. I'm sure they probably all differ in quality. Aftermarket, "A" parts were used, but only $166 dollars worth. A couple thousand bucks of "LKQ" parts were used. Most of this was spent for the doors and a replacement wheel. I know means like kind and quality. I thought all parts had to be like kind a quality.
The confusion continues. Any opinions and explanations are appreciated.
Thanks!
Normally, I'd ask my adjustor this question. Unfortunately, he is never available and will not return my calls. The woman causing the accident only had $10K in property damage. She was telling me that if I could get my Ins Co to accept what is left over after my rental car expenses are paid (over $1500) and DV is established (as you know, tough to determine)the would pay me first and my Ins Co. would receive the rest. Does this sound fishy to anyone. My adjustor says in writing in an email that he would be agreeable to that arrangement. My thought is that now my Ins Co will just take all the $10K and I'll be SOL and left with nothing.
Any thoughts on what this might mean and how to proceed?
Thanks!
Can you please post the name of your Insurance company again? I want to make certain that I NEVER use them for my insurance company! I've had problems in the past with Liberty Mutual but this sounds far worse.
Thanks
DV should be based on retail.
Dealers use trade in value because that's what they pay.
Dealers use retail when selling to customers.
Base your DV on retail prices, not wholesale - after all you paid retail price for your insurance.
If a virginal 03 G35 would sell retail for $22k and if one that was knocked up would sell retail for $17k, then your DV is $5k.
Think retail when computing DV.
If your DV claim is not within your company's scope of coverage of Collision insurance, it is not collectable UNLESS you also carried Uninsured Motorist Property Damage Liability. UMPD is like buying PD Liability for the other motorist.
So, what exactly did you have for coverages?
Sorry, but I'm not in the military and I am currently overseas and wanted to know which company would treat a customer so poorly. So when I get back to the US I won't get screwed myself. If you don't want to say which company it is then fine. But just say it that way.
I guess you don't care if anyone else gets screwed like you did.
Thanks for reminding me why I prefer living and working overseas. Over here people help each other to not get screwed over.
When you are NOT an American citizen, you will pay a lot more than others for your insurance and that is as it should be. Why? Because after you cause an at fault crash, you can always flee to your home country to prevent being duly punished and it is not easy to defend an insured when he is not available for trial. :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Either way, if he indeed did say that, he is a liar. At least in any state that I know of. How can he vouch for any and all people who have treated you?? How can he assure you that they won't need to be paid before the case is settled -- is he saying, if he loses, that the people that treated you won't need to be paid?
I hope that I'm not even in the ballpark here, but it I'd bet I'm closer than you think. I don't have any good "fix-it" advice at this time, other than to contact your PIP carrier and get their proof of payment -- if he had a lien, all proceeds would go through him from that point, it is possible that you exhausted 3k of your coverage before you obtained "representation." If it makes you feel any better, it is unlikely that your attorney will actually take it to court -- he may file, but he will settle -- because he is likely both terrified of the court room and knows that it will take inordinate amounts of his time to try this case vs. settle the same -- and that extra 20% he'll get does not make up for the time he'll spend.
lilyowen: there is nothing inherently wrong or unethical with referring to chiros or vice-versa...since they often have a better understanding of the mechanics of the injury, I personally would seek chiro treatment from a wreck after making sure I didn't destroy any internal organs...after the ER screens you for life-threatening injuries, quite frankly, the MD profession knows nothing but loading you up with drugs...it is amazing how many folks state that the drugs not only make them dizzy or sleepy, but rarely relieve the pain...
Are there crooked chiros???...of course...there are also some priests I would be hesitant to leave a young boy with, also, but that doesn't stop folks from going to church...
I will often take a minor damage case, with the understanding that settlements will also be minor, and they ARE deserving of some compensation...many attys will not handle a case unless there is major damage, but I will take selective small cases...what is wrong with that???
You are correct about trial, though...unless the injuries are major, the 2 day trial is rarely worth the extra time, as the jury award is rarely worth it...simple business decision, really...this romantic idea about someone "wanting their day in court" comes from the Perry Mason days...sometimes the only reason folks want a trial is so they can tell their tale of woe to a captive audience of 12 people who, ordinarily would never listen to them for a minute...
Going to trial is not an emotional decision, it is a business decision...and, the secret is (you WILL keep this a secret between the two of us, won't you???) most people make LOUSY witnesses and testify poorly on the stand...and any atty knows that you can be 100% in the right, but if you come across with a "you owe me" attitude, the jury will blow you off with nothing...some folks, when in front of an audience, freeze up and forget their name and address, but how will they testify to names, dates, treatment, etc???...that is why attys will often avoid trial, because injured palintiffs who believe they will come across well in front of the jury usually come across looking like idiots, but, that is the last thing we can tell them, if you catch my drift...:):):):):)
Also, the costs of trial (expert witness fees, especially) are often more costly than the value of the injuries themselves...10 years ago, a 2 hour dep transcript was about $150, now it usually exceeds $500, but the value of the case has not risen with inflation...it is the same problem as the cost of a home rising with inflation, but your paycheck has fallen behind...it simply is not worth going to trial due to the inherent costs, which, do not forget, are advanced by the atty...it is the ATTORNEY's money on the line, hoping to be paid back from jury award, not the client's money...we accept contingency for the FEE, but for some stupid reason, clients expect the atty to advance all the costs for their case, taking the risk for them...most folks have less-than-zero comprehension of that concept, sadly...
But, certainly between the lines, or not, you can see that often a particular quality of attorney may exclusively market in this fashion -- that is not really point either, however.
What I did key on was the promise that nothing would be owed until settlement is made. I'm certain, Bob, that while it turns your stomach to forward a depo fee, it would clearly be unacceptable to anybody, attorney or otherwise, to forward payment for medical bills of a client.
To better explain, statute runs in my state in 10 years -- file around statute and trial would start well into 10. This is extreme, probably not the case here, but with the suggestion that trial is forthcoming, how short could this process be?? Not at all I would assume (that may be the problem, my assumptions) Bills go to collections in maybe 3-6 months -- 1 year on the absolute outside. You see where I'm heading here -- as I'm sure you advise your clients to protect them (and their credit) these bills are not the insurance company's, nor even the liable party's -- they certainly are not the attorney's -- They are in the name of the injured party and will remain so -- until of course bankruptcy is filed I suppose.
I have medpay, I have PIP, I'm loaded on UM/UIM, I don't expect these things to happen to me -- they might however. I also don't know the extent of bills outstanding, or incurred by the poster. I do, however, hardly see an attorney going to trial for meds that were cleared by 5k in PIP coverage. If he has a substantial victory, his client will still profit not at all, or very little -- and by profit, I mean be indemnified properly for pain and suffering. IMHO, that lawyer, and every other who promises this (there are many) are unethical, manipulative, self-serving liars.
See, it's not about the marketing of your trade, it's about the truth-in-advertising. It's about taking advantage of your knowledge and skills at the cost of another -- negligent free -- party, the client. Note that when I say "your" I do not directly mean you Bob, as I have the utmost respect for what you do on this site to both extend your assistance and knowledge to people in need -- pro bono (I assume)
If it is determined that a diagnostic test will rule in or rule out a specific injury,(such as an MRI to determine if a disc was herniated) than the atty MAY front the $$$ for the test if the client cannot afford it, as the test may make or break the case...(another reason for medpay if you ask me...:):):)...)...
I personally do not do it, simply because the chance of a positive MRI is simply not in the high percetages...plus, I do not believe in advancing $$$ for the client...my time, yes, but my $$$, no...we have an old joke...we gareed with the banks that we won't loan out money if they promise not to practive law...
luckily airbags didn't deploy and she and the baby are ok as the most important thing. though she has a pain in her leg from bracing for the collision after she tried to swerve out of the way of the oblivious wreckless ups driver and she almost hit a mail box and tree trying to avoid the big brown truck.
then UPS has their insurance person do the usual try and call her to intimidate her and question her about the accident and was all aggressive in the message. luckily she dint answer.
can you imagine? the President of UPS should be calling and making sure she is ok. they should do the right thing and be glad she or the baby weren't hurt. But to have a driver like that on the road that was even with it enough to see her to the right of him or right in front of him, their reputation as a big company is on the line.
Do they want to be known for having totally out of it drivers that just ram into the sides of pregnant women in their cars in broad daylight and then they just handle it through the normal insurance channels and have some aggressive agent call.
really makes them look bad. They should do the right thing on their own without getting any letter or anything but so far they've done anything but.
She was trapped in her car and couldn't get out of the driver door from teh damage the ups truck did to her door. 9 months pregnant she had to clime over the center console to get out of the other side of the car hysterically crying.
very sad. if we took it to the public or the news UPS would look very bad. now she wont have her car back from repair in time for the baby after having car seat professionally installed. has to deal with a cheap rental now that doenst' have the amentities and safety features that made her comfortable in her car when driving with a big prego belly.
plus out the $1000 deductible in the meantime which we needed for baby stuff. etc. etc. etc.
so far they've done nothing but handle it through the red tape and restrictions of their auto insurance which has just made it a big headache and stress for us all due to the negligence of their driver.
my wife is devastated becaues this was a brand new car, her first luxury car that she was so proud of getting a good deal and buying not leasing and she was very happy with it. It broke my heart to see this happen and her emotional distress about it. days later she breaks into tears about it. were just happy her and baby is ok but for her its sad about her car, she can't even look at it with a big hole in the side and all mangled.
I dont know what to do or how to get UPS to do the right thing but i'm ready to buy her a new car or anything to cheer her up.
:sick:
If I were in your shoes, I'd do everything humanly possible to get a rental as close to the wrecked car as possible, even if the ins co squaks and you have to pay some out of pocket. Just keep all the receipts and when it's over, demand payment from the ins co in full. And be sure to tell them about the emotional distress you're wife went through being 9 months pregnant.
If you cannot keep your temper, hire an attorney who is accustomed to dealing with riff-raff like that...
Altho you told us she was T-boned, you never actually stated (or did I miss it?) whether UPS ran a stop sign/red light or your wife was at fault...
Get photos of your vehicle damage for future reference...calling the local consumer reporters in a case like this (assuming you are not at fault) might bring some bad PR to UPS, esp with the classic plaintiff, a 9 month pregnant woman...
Glad she was not seriously injured, but do keep an eye on the upcoming child, to be sure no impact damage to the baby or difficult birth or any myriad of problems...
she was driving down a 2 way street and sees the UPS truck ahead coming out of a side street at a stop sign start to edge out but then he hesitated so she thought he obviously saw her coming down the road and would wait, instead he just starts to come out right as she comes up on the side street. She swerves onto a yard, some grass and dirt as evidenced by her slight muddy tires on that side, to try to avoid the insane and obviously blind ups truck driver but there is a mailbox and a tree so she has nowhere to go by this time she is right in front of the UPS truck which you'd think if he was drunk,high, tired enough to not look to his right for the oncoming traffic before pulling out he would have at least seen a bright white car right in front of him but no, he just keeps coming and bowls her over, right into the side of her car driver door and driver side back door and continues to turn, scraping her car for her to hear the most horrible sound of metal impact on her new Acura followed by the scraping of him continuing to turn. Scaring the crap out of her, heart ponding, then stopped and crying hysterical and can't even open her door to get out of the car and has to climb over the center console with a big belly to get out the other side.
I wasn't there but thats more or less it. Theres really no debate as the damage even shows is 100% without a doubt the ups trucks fault, but noone understands how he didn't see her and kept going. All he says is, he didn't see her as if she was in an invisible car like wonder womans jet.
He was at the very least tired and very out of it and a danger to most anyone on the road and she was in wrong place at wrong time happily driving along on a saturday morning to get her errands done.
anyway its being handled. But its the type of thing then then your forever scared of trucks especially big brown ones and then you driver overly scared and cautious cus you dont trust that any of them will ever stop or not drive right into you again. As you drive down a street and you see a big truck coming out of side street you hope they see you coming down the road as anyone clearly could but after something like this you just dont trust or know for sure so what can you do, beep and flash your lights just to make for certain the truck sees you and last minute isn't going to come out right on top of you.
its good to drive defensively but you can't drive overly scared as that is bad too. It doens't help that she was in a very bad life threatening accident as teenager/college student where she was in a friends sports car who flipped off the side of the road and a huge piece of wood came through window and pinned her by her hair against the seat. could have decapitated her and ultimately ripped the hair out in one spot and she has a scar on side of her head underneath her hair where hair doenst' grow and a small scar on inside of lip plus has permanent migraines and should neck pains for life from it.
Luckily shes a young looking pretty girl and the scars are hidden and shes a happy person but yeah after one really bad accident in her past something like this brings it all back of being in the hospital and not being able to eat solid food cus they had to fix her jaw etc.
anyway shes in good spirits, you can't keep her down, i cheered her up and she got a rental which shes not sure she likes cus her preg belly hits the wheel but she cant move back cus then she wont reach the gas. I'll let her drive my car if shes more comfortable in that and soon i'm not letting her drive for the last month or so anyway.
hopefully it all works out and i think its being handled and we know what to do from here so actually no further questions for now but thanks for the kind words and advice. :sick:
Does that car have DRLs? Daytime running lights. Love 'em. They make you visible just like motorcycle lights which are required in this state.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks for clarification...
Be sure to monitor her injuries, if any, carefully...
Just because the UPS adjuster is a jerk, doesn't mean much, if you can tolerate him...if legal, see if you can record any conversations with him...in GA, if two parties are having a conversation, one party can record it w/o the other's knowledge...a court order is only needed for a THIRD party to record the conversation of two other people...your state may, as always, be different...
I cancelled my insurance because I sold my car and moved to NYC. I am now moving to a city where I need a car and hence car insurance. I dont want to tell insurance companies while applying for insurance that the accident was my fault if it was determined that it wasnt entirely.. Do you think a DMV driving record might be the best place for this answer?
Regardless of what you tell them, they will verify everything, just be upfront and honest telling them you never heard the final outcome. Your biggest problem is not the accident. It's the fact that you've been without insurance for some time now.
Based on your last post it appears things are working out in your favor. Let us know how it all turns out.
I went inside the store and did my shopping and came out 15 minutes later. The man was still parked there but he was no longer in his vehicle. I was getting my seatbelt on and stowing my shopping bag under a seat when he came back out. He had another man with him and I saw him take the other man to the side of his vehicle to examine the "damage". The man whines at his friend, "Well she said she was sorry but I don't know..." Because they were standing right next to my car it wasn't safe for me to pull out of the spot. Unfortunately the man noticed me inside my car and starts banging on my window. I open it and he says "I want your insurance information" in an extremely nasty tone. I didn't want to cause a scene and have the man call the cops and accuse me of hit and run so I handed him my insurance card and allowed him to copy down the information. He handed it back after writing down the info and did not say anything else. He storms off to his car and leaves the parking lot.
I immedietely called my insurance company who said that they would deal with the man if he called and not to worry about it.
So yesterday a week after the incident the man managed to track down my home phone number which is not shown on the insurance card and not listed under my name in the phone book so he had to have done some work to track me down which angered me. He left a voice mail while I was at work asking me to call him regarding the incident. I again called my insurance company who said 1. That the man and his insurance company had never contacted them about the incident 2. the man had no business calling me and 3. that if he continued to call that i should call the police.
Today he called me numerous times while I was at work. He did not leave any further voicemails. I called the police with my concern who essentially blamed me and said that the man was doing nothing wrong, my insurance company was wrong, I was wrong and that the man had every right to sue me if I did not return his phone calls so I should return his calls and see what he wants because he is legally "in the right" and I am wrong because "even a little bit of paint or a tiny scratch could cost the man 1000 dollars". The police tried to say that "maybe the man wants to settle this civilly without getting insurance involved." And that I was stupid for not calling cops to begin with after the man banged on my window.
Well 1. The man asked for my insurance information instead of trying to settle this civilly in the beginning. 2. he didn't even ask for it right away. he wouldn't have asked for it at all if I had come out of the store earlier or later and he hadn't managed to catch me at my car. 3. my insurance company says that the man's behavior is suspicious to begin with since in 8 days he has not once contacted insurance and that generally people with a legitamate problem call a lot sooner than that.
I'm distraught and upset right now. I did not damage this man's car except for the tiny bit of paint he wiped off at the scene. He already had scratches etc all over the vehicle to begin with. My insurance thinks that the man is probably trying to get some other pre-existing form of damage repaired or just wants money and knows that he will be unable to get it from insurance. The police are acting like I'm the one with the problem despite the man tracking me down.
I'm also scared that if the man manages to make a case with my insurance company or sues me that I'm going to lose my insurance policy. I already had one at fault claim this year where I hit someone else's car three weeks after getting my driver's license. That person was sane and let my insurance company handle things and her car was severely damaged as was mine. I pay higher rates now as a consequence but I took full responsibility for what happened. I'm not a dishonest person.
I don't feel comfortable speaking with someone who banged on the window of my car but I'm not sure what to do. The insurance company says that I should under no circumstances call this man but the police say that I should and that the insurance has no clue what they are talking about. I've given my insurance company this man's name and phone number but despite everything the man still has not contacted them.
Anyone been through something like this and have any advice for me? There were no witnesses to the incident. The man's traveling companion was in the store when it happened and I was driving alone that day.
In the future, should he contact you in any way, just say "you have my insurance information so deal with them." After making that statement, hang up or walk away.
Your comfort status will be taxed more in the future so develop some offensive tactics of your own.
The best defense is a better offence.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
My advice:
- Document everything, every time he called and what he said and what you told him.
- Get a restraining order against him.
- Buy a gun and learn how to use it. If he shows up at your house, use it. In the state of Florida you are more than justified. Other states that are more liberal like NY, Mass, Md, Cal, I'm not sure.