A person with a specific question should NOT rely on a message board poster's opinion which at best is only generally true. If he does, he may end up with a very bad result.
Even if you do have insurance, it is a good idea to call your agent for advice when you are about to purchase a car. Anytime you have questions call the agent. It's his business to get the right answers for you.
Yeah, mediation is good in cases where the parties want to settle but can't agree on a figure. It is just another stab at negotiation really. But if it's binding mediation, it starts as negotiation but ends up as arbitration, because a result is forced on the parties if they can't reach a settlement during the mediation phase.
On 6/21, I was I-24,I was in the fourth lane of a 4 lane interstate. In the third lane, there were two Semi trucks driving slow. One behind the other. I was driving 60mph in a 55mph zone. Well as soon as I was passing the semi truck, The Semi in the third lane came over to the fourth lane and bumped the left rear of my sunfire at 60mph. This caused my car to go in a tail spin out of control across four lanes of traffic. I slammed on the brakes and pulled up the emergency brake by instinct. I ended up slamming up against the concrete median in the far left emergency lane of the four lane interstate. Thank GOD we didn't have a scratch on us. The other ten plus drivers on the road kept driving. No witnesses didn't stop. The truck driver stopped. I called the police. I have liability and uninsured motorist only on this car. The 1996 Pontiac Sunfire 146k miles is totaled. I filed a claim on my insurance just to cover myself. However, we didn't get his insurance information at the scene. We were in shock with the thought we were almost killed. Huge mistake I know. The police report doesn't have the insurance information on it. When I called his trucking company for insurance information, they claim that he leases the truck from them and that the driver insurance should apply in this accident. However, my adjuster, talked to the semi truck driver and he said that he was carrying a load for this company so the trucking company insurance should apply here. The semi truck driver wouldn't give his insurance information to my claims adjuster. They are from out of state too. Does anyone know the answer to this? It will be two weeks this Wednesday and no one from his side has called to look at my car or take a statement from me regarding this accident. The police report shows that the semi truck driver is at fault for this accident.
It is not unheard of having a high Property Damage Deductible charged against the driver's wages. The purpose of which is to encourage safer driving techniques.
Commercial Liability Insurance follows state law which says Libility follows the vehicle. So, go after the company that lists the truck on their insurance. If the truck is leased the Lessor should have a Certificate of Insurance from the Lessee. The primary carrier should honor your claim and look to the carrier on the Certificate of Insurance for reimbursement.
since when is the burden yours to provide the other person's insurance information? it can be a great time and effort saver, but i think because your adjuster had make contact with both the truck driver and the trucking company is known, seems like your ins. co should be good to go.
What is FAIR is a matter of opinion. If you are the injured party what is fair is the maximum amount your lawyer can get. If you are paying off the claim anything over $0 is unfair.
Here's a rule of thumb: If you are making a claim figure out what you would be willing to settle for and ad a zero to the end of the figure. If you a paying a claim take the figure being asked for and remove a zero from the end.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Popular literature will tell you that some use a formula based on three to five times "specials" (lost wages and medical expenses) equals settlement value.
If you want to know whether a particular settlement offer is "fair," hire a lawyer to evaluate it.
True Joe...the other guy's insurance will be paying the DV. The big question is: how much? With the other driver having only $10K in property damage ins, it can't be that huge.
I have an attorney handling another aspect of my case and he is going to send a demand letter for the DV and out of pocket expenses once we come up with a figure.
Poster says, "I have liability and uninsured motorist only on this car. The 1996 Pontiac Sunfire 146k miles..."
You say, "...because your adjuster had make contact with both the truck driver and the trucking company is known, seems like your ins. co should be good to go."
I ask you, what do you mean by "good to go"?
If poster's liability only protects the other guy, and his UM coverage is only for injuries, where do you expect his company "to go"?
The other company may not have ANY money left to offer you if it gives it all to your company as reimbursement for your car repair. Did you call the other company and ask for money for DV and rental yet? If so, what did they tell you? Did you call your company to find out if it would be asking the other driver's company to reimburse them for the $14,000 (or a portion of it) that it spent to pay for your car's repairs? If so, what did they tell you? As to the value of the DV claim, negotiate with the other company. Have you started? If so, where are they and where are you? How far apart are you on your offers? (And how did you decide what the lowest figure is that you would ultimately accept to settle the DV claim? What amount is it?) You may have to end up arguing with your OWN company about how much IT should pay you for the DV and rental out of any money it received from the other company. Have you asked them about the possibility? If so, what did they tell you?
A settlement is fair if both sides are competent to contract and an agreement is reached. The injured person must decide what he'd settle for, and the other side has to determine how much they'd pay. Ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers. If you did not cause the accident or your injuries, and your injuries are significant, and if the other side has a large pot of money to pay from, you'd be well advised to discuss your case ASAP with a personal injury lawyer BEFORE saying ANYTHING else to anyone.
Sorry if I keep asking the same questions repeatedly. I have some memory loss and other issues from the accident.
I called the other company and they told me my ins company would have to sign a release stating they would accept what is left over after out of pocket expenses and DV.
They said they would pay my rental reimbursement once I send them a final receipt from the rental car co. Since my car still isn't fixed I'm not sure what the full amount will be.
My insurance co says they'll accept what is left over once I get my rental costs and DV from the other company.
I'm not sure where to start with the DV demand. That is my main issue. My atty is covering the personal injury claim and is doing minimal work in the property damage end of things. He will send the demand letter though once I get the figures. I thought once I get my car back and take it to the local Infiniti dealership and see what it would be worth to them after the see what the extent of the damage was. I also read that the ins companies have a formula that they use to calculate DV.
My insurance co says that is against FL law for them to pay me DV on my car. They say they will pay no more for the rental since I've exhausted the $900 of coverage provided by my auto ins policy.
Basically, I just have to determine how much of that $10K to ask for.
Ok, here is a suggestion on DV. First of all, you must realize you CAN NOT accurately determine diminished value UNTIL your car is completely repaired. OK? But you can begin to figure it out now. Get a hold of a car value guide such as NADA, Kelley Blue Book, Edmunds, etc. or find one online. Use it to determine your car's value just BEFORE the accident happened. Be honest with yourself about your car's condition then. Figure the value based on private party sale or as trade-in value or wholesale value. If you are a person who would likely dispose of your car by selling it yourself, write down the private book price. If you would be more likely to trade your car at a dealership, write down the trade-in or wholesale value. Now, multiply the price you wrote down by 40% to determine the amount you should ask for a diminished value. Demand that amount ONLY if you get a perfectly repaired car back from the shop. If the repairs are not perfect then you should claim even more DV due to the accident and repairs. Or, you can tell your company the repairs are not satisfactory and try to get them to persuade the shop to do it over, even if your insurance company has to pay more to get it fixed right. Or, you could take the car back to the shop on your own and tell them the repairs are not right and ask them to do it again so it is right. If both methods are unsuccessful, or if you can't tell if the initial repairs are good, then you can hire an auto appraiser to inspect your car and write a report as to the apparant quality of the repairs. His report should include the costs needed to make the car right. Add his fee and the cost of the needed additional repair work onto the 40% DV figure you calculated before. That is your new DV claim. Demand that amount from the other company for your car's Diminished Value. In your case it will likely be between about $8,000 to $10,000. So if your company will agree to sign that waiver you mentioned earlier, your company will get NONE of their $14,000 back and YOU will get the entire $10,000 of coverage from the other company. Anything less to you I'd say is unfair. If I were the judge or arbitrator of your case, I'd allow the 8-10 thousand dollars as diminished value. Good luck.
(I think I said this all before in this forum, but I can't remember all the past posts either. And I do not even have an injury causing my memory loss)
There's nothing to "unravel". The DV is the difference between the value of the car before the accident and the value of the car after all repairs have been completed. A used car manager at a dealership could easily look up auction values for never damaged cars vs. damaged and repaired cars. Or he could appraise it using any other method that works for him. Many dealers probably use the same method for determining used car values. An average DV for your type of car should not be that elusive. Negotiate towards a settlement on any DV claim. If you can't reach an agreement, hire an expert and sue the other driver, with or without a lawyer, depending on the amount you are trying to recover and the court rules in your locale. In that case, the arbitrator, jury or judge would determine the DV.
i'm not going to argue. when I was speaking DV, I was referring to the value your INS. Co. will come up with.
what you've postulated is a sane and fair way to determine true DV, but this WILL NOT be anywhere near or similar to the value someone's INS. CO. will come back with after the vehicle is repaired.
no way, no how.
now, like we exchanged, you can take someone to court, but rots-o-ruck going that route. by the time you factor in time, effort, expenses, your gain will be minimal on the typical enconomy sedan, even higher-end SUV, i'm questioning the cost/benefit equation.
now, if I were driving a porche, lamborghini or ferrari, then i could see the benefit of your advice, otherwise, well i just don't see it. but that is just a personal opinion.
Wife's 2 year old Civic was totalled in February. Of course, the other guy's insurance company (he rear ended her and of course was at fault) said there was a "question of coverage," which is insurance speak for "Screw you, were not paying a dime!"
He wasn't driving his insured car (with only 10 or 15K property damage coverage; so underinsured), but since he was driving his sister's new "used" car, and she didn't have insurance, it was an UNinsured claim at this point according to CA law I'm told by my Insurance company which is Mercury. Unfortunately insurance companies have devised a sneaky plan whereby even with all of the un/underinsured coverages, and collision deductible waiver in that event, you can still be financially hit by a reckless driver causing a not at fault accident for yourself. The scam/trick????
Well, simple, there is no such thing as uninsured rental car coverage!!!! I had to pay for the rental, and Mercury said they could "tack on that expense" in their claim/subrogation/lawsuit against the driver that was at fault. So insurance follows the car but blame follows the driver? I don't get it. Insurance should always follow the person driving; whoever came up with the insane idea insurance should follow the vehicle and not the driver?
Anyway, enough of my ranting. This happened in February, and to date the driver's insurance company has never contacted me to say the claim was denied, last I heard it was a question of coverage in review. Secondly, I haven't heard from Mercury about recovering my $200 in rental costs, or when this lawsuit will be brought forth????
What should I do? The last thing I want to do is let anyone off the hook. I'm the type of person who'd spend 2,000 dollars trying to recover my $200, and lots of time in order to stick it to an insurance company or bad driver.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I would like to know if anyone could help me with some general guidelines when merging on a highway. My wife was involved in a accident while merging on a "gridlocked" highway. As she explains, she had about 3 to 4 car lengths in which to merge. As she was pulling over a guy in a tractor trailer excelerated and ultimately hit the rear of the vehicle pushing it to the side and then proceeding to hit the drivers side rear door. The only witness who stopped happened to be a co-worker of my wife, so eventhough she seems to verify that the truck driver had a "you not going to get in front of me mentality" her account is discounted since she is an friend of my wife. Traffic was traveling at about 20 mph, damage is about $6,000 on a Toyota 4runner. A police man at the scene was unable to make a determination of who was at fault. My wife just spoke with our insurance company and what seemed to be a rather open and shut case has taken a turn, The insurance agent claims my wife is at fault because 3 to 4 car lengths is not enough space to merge in 20 mph traffic. My thoughts are as follows: first and formost my wife was hit from behind and pushed by a truck that should not have been traveling more than 20 mph supporting her claim that the truck sped up in an attempt to prevent her from getting in front of her. I was also under the impression that if hit from behind it is ultimately the other drivers fault. My second concern is that my wifes interpretation of 3-4 car lengths is truly a very rough estimate and should by no means be used to determine exactly how much space she had to merge. Who's to say that she interprets 70 feet as 4 car lengths vs. some other amount.
Anyway, if you have any advice or specific guidelines "the appropriate amount of car lengths generally required to merge into 20 mph traffic" I would appreciate it. My wife truly believes that she was a victim of "agressive driving" and just needs some help conveying this to the insurance company.
as far as insurance following the driver, that wouldn't get as much money for the insurance company. For instance, if insurance was, say, $800 per year per person, it wouldn't matter if I had 1 car or 5 cars, I'd still be paying $800. But since it is insured by car, I have to pay $4k for my 5 cars (just an example, I really don't pay that).
PLUS, if it was by person, and your brother-in-law borrows your car and wrecks it ... but ooops, he doesn't have insurance on himself.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If your wife was rear-ended, then she has the advantage, tremendously. She can't really be PROVEN at fault when she's rear-ended, you can only incriminate yourself. She may have spoken too much, said too much. She shouldn't have offered any more information than "I was rear ended, which spun me around (you'll have to EXPLAIN that one as it is physically impossible to be rear ended and spun around; she must have been sideswiped; there had to be some force in a horizontal direction) if your simply rear ended then you fly forward, not sideways. Anyway, after saying that, she should have only said "after being spun out, he t-boned the side of my car. All of the other information is superfluous and she should of plead the 5th on the rest. Simply say I was rear ended..... judgement not at fault.
Say stupid things that you are not sure are true (like 3 to 4 car lengths) and it could be used against you; despite all logic to the contrary.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
That being said, however, from what you've said in writing, I'd judge against your wife, your wife is at fault, and 3 to 4 car lengths is plenty to merge into at 20 MPH, well, maybe not plenty, but enough to be safe.
I'd judge against her because it appears she tried to merge where there was not multiple car lenghts but only 1/2 a car length. She didn't fit, and she hit the front end of the truck, on the side. This created the side motion in her vehicle that spun it out, and he was unable to stop (because trucks stop slowly) and proceeded to hit her in the side because she slowed down too fast in a lane she should have been going forward in (not sideways). Going sideways slows you down way too fast to be safe.
Thats what it sounds like.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My wife truly believes that she was a victim of "agressive driving" and just needs some help conveying this to the insurance company.
Although this may be true, aggressive driving does not equal "at-fault" driving. Insurance companies don't care much about the intricacies and details, they are more black and white about things.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I think that in this case being hit from behind carries no weight because it is trumped by the requirement to merge safely. This requirement is clearly spelled out in most state's driver's manuals where they even go so far as to say that if the traffic is too dense to merge safely then you must stop and wait for safe entry onto the highway.
Your wife's claims of "20 mph", "four car lengths" and "the truck driver accelerated" are dubious since she cannot be looking both forward and backward at the same time. The fact that the car got pushed to the side suggests that the collision was more of a glancing or oblique strike than a direct rear-end hit - i.e. she was merging unsafely. Also, it seems rather unlikely that a truck driver would accelerate to the point of colliding with another vehicle.
In any case, you may want to seek legal counsel. Good luck!
Hey, what you said is what I said, only you said it better.
The "driver's manual" and references to things being trumped by the more stringent requirement is the insurance industries way of looking at things black and white.
For example, your always at fault if your backing up and the other person is going forward, all the time, no matter what. Simply the act of backing up requires you to take greater care and liability. I don't agree with some of these "trumped" notions, but the key in the case being discussed is that her vehicle went sideways, which suggests it wasn't a rear end collision to begin with.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Thanks for your response. It looks as though I misspoke when I said she spun out. I saw the damage of the truck and you are correct that it was more side swiped. The initial hit was the left rear of her car. More specifically the drivers side brake light and bumper beneath it. I believe the vehicle was struck in this location because my wife saw the truck in her rear view mirror and made an attempt to move towards the right . After the initial impact I believe the car was pushed over a bit where the tractor trailer than proceeded to side swipe the vehicle, in what was described as a second impact. With that said, just curious if you think that would help her case at all or if you would still stick with your original thoughts, that my wife was at fault and that we should not bother trying fight the insurance companies decision?
Ouch! If she was in the lane, and then attempted to move out of the way, but only half heartedly (or too late) she just made the evidence worse for herself.
She should have just stayed in the lane and taken a direct hit, then there would be no question whatsover that she's NOT at fault. It would just be "Mr. Insurance guy, I was rear ended, end of story."
If she can honestly say she saw the truck coming from behind at an unsafe high rate of speed and was about to rear end her, and then she tried to make another manuever to get out of the way to the right, but did so too late or too slowly, I think you might have a case, but it'll be EXTREMELY hard to prove.
The left rear/side tail light hit makes it start to look more like a side-swipe than rear end, which is bad news for your wife. If traffic was indeed going 20 MPH and the truck driver did all of this and still hit her, he might well have done it on purpose or rage. I would think at that slow of a speed he should have been able to stop.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
If she claims she completed her "safe lane change/merge" action 100%, and was already in the lane completely, and had completed her manuevering, then it IS now a rear-end collision, since she had already established that the "safe" merging was completed.
Its the same as saying you weren't backing up, because you had already completed backing up, and that you were in a "stopped" position changing gears.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
From what you wrote, it seems that your wife is the only one at fault, for failure to yield...
If I read correctly, she was trying to merge in 20 mph gridlocked traffic...I believe this is another one of those instances where the driver who may rear-end you may not be at fault, simply because merging requires the merging driver to yield to all other traffic...
While the other driver may have bee somewhat aggressive, he also had the right of way...while he could have been more courteous, he did have the right of way whether traffic was 20, 40, or 70 mph...
Unless I misunderstood your post, I fail to see how anyone could be charged for causing this wreck, other than your wife, regardless of how many lengths she estimated...
What did I miss???
RE: Diminished Value...to my knowledge, GA is one of few states that mandates diminished value, most other states do not even acknowledge its existence, so demanding compensation for it is simply blowing hot air to an insurance company...as far as any magic formula, that is beyond wishful thinking...but I would think that the best way to determine DV is to take the vehicle to the used car manager of the dealership selling that brand, find out its value with the damage, and then the mgr should be able to estimate its value w/o the damage...do that at 2-3 dealers, and come up with an average...then pray...
Thanks for your advice Joe. You are right, my car is a 2003 Infiniti G35 in very good condition (well, it used to be) with 46,000 miles. My insurance company's adjuster estimated the "actual cash value" to be $20,500. I feel at least $8,000 is "fair" and the rest of the other party's $10K would about cover my rental car expenses. This is probably about the best I can realistically hope for at this point.
Today I got an estimate that repairs on my Infiniti G35 are running a little over $16K. My insurance company's adjuster told me the actual cash value of the car was $20,500 pre accident. Interestingly, I called my local Infiniti dealer and told them I wanted to trade my G35 in on a newer model. I never mentioned it had been wrecked. They said they would allow $14,500 for my car as a trade in. It amazes me that USAA will not total my car even with such extensive damage. They require 80% of the ACV in repairs to total the car. Is this the same for all insurance carriers?
My question is this: What can I do to contest this estimate since it is so close to totalling the car? I know if OEM parts were used to repair the car the repair costs would be much higher. I also know the repair shop does not have to use OEM parts. Many junkyard parts have been used to put my car back together again. It has been in the shop for over 8 weeks now! The estimate shows 4 hours on the frame machine. I honestly don't feel this car is as safe as before and I know it is not nearly worth what it was. How can one make an argument that the car should be determined to be a total loss?
I would suggest doing a little legwork to find out what comparably equipped G35s are selling for in your area. The price your dealer gave you is certain to be several thousand dollars below the selling price.
The worst that can happen is that they would reject your numbers but they would be real world figures which are hard to argue against.
I also find it interesting that the value they placed on the car is just $500 above the cutoff (125% of $16,000 = $20,000). How convenient.
That is my read on it too. Merger at fault unless she was able to fully and safely merge into the truck's lane and then truck rearends her. Or unless the law in your area is that people on the thoroughfare must yield to mergers. Possible I guess. That would change things.
If repair cost estimates plus expected supplements plus estimated car rental expense plus diminished value minus salvage value is greater than the value of the car before the accident happened then the company may elect to treat the car as a total loss (called a constructive total loss) and pay you an amount so you could replace the car with one similar to it as it was before the accident. That would save the company money and make you happier too.
Most often a car is considered an (actual) total loss if repair costs minus salvage value is greater than the pre-accident value.
You can put it all on paper as accurately as possible and try to negotiate with the company.
My guess is that in every state which allows a person to sue for damages caused by negligence, DV claims would be entertained by the courts. Prove negligence and damages and get a judgment for it. The idea of DV not even being recognized sounds like a 1st party contractual deal between a car owner and HIS OWN insurance company. If the policy does not allow DV claims by the policyholder, so be it. The premium is presumably based in part on that restriction. No harm, no foul since the insurance buyer agreed to it when he bought the policy.
Can anyone tell me which states prohibit a diminished value claim from being made by a fault free victim against the other negligent driver? (I am NOT talking about a 1st party claim against a person's OWN company here, ok?)
A 2003 car with 46,000 miles is older and more used than I'd like to see when hoping to recover a high dollar diminished value claim. The newer the car and the lower the mileage the stronger is your DV claim in my estimation. But even with an older car with high miles the principle is the same as are the types of evidence that should be persuasive.
Taken to an extreme for illustration's sake, if a 15 year old car in pretty good roadworthy shape was damaged severely and the owner tried to collect diminished value it would be much harder to gather persuasive evidence. It is also more likely, almost a surety, that the car would be totalled before ever reaching the DV issue anyway. Then your battle would be to try proving that your old beater was special and more valuable than whatever amount the insurance company offers to pay to allow you to replace it.
I'll have to do that legwork fast to find out the actual selling prices for a comparably equipped G35 in my area. I'm sure the repair shop (and my ins co) will want me to sign off on the repairs since they say the car is "done". Should I include private party sales (if I can find the info)? What kind of weight might estimates from sources such as Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Book carry with insurance companies?
Sorry for my ignorance of the way auto insurance works, but I don't understand the significance of the "cutoff" and why 125% of $20,000 is significant. It sounds like something I should definitely learn quickly.
There has to be some way to prove an additional $500 of damage to my car. They told me the car was almost done and then they found another $5000 in damage.
Thanks for taking the time to keep addressing my issues, Joe.
I'll have to go over my policy with a fine toothed comb again to see if non-payment of DV by my insurance company is included in there. I have it in an email message that my insurance adjuster told me that FL law did not allow payment of DV by the 1st party. I suppose I'll have to look into that as well.
I see all kinds of pay for service DV businesses are out there on the internet. What are your thoughts on those?
Crispix: Hope for the best, maybe there is some room for comparative negligence, but I doubt you will get this favor out of a trucking company's carrier -- more likely you would be forced to sue to get any judgement -- and you would likely lose. Sorry, but I think your wife was at fault as well.
Andres3: I have no idea what state or country you live in, but you have made some very broad liability statements that are -- simply -- not true. If his wife established herself in the lane of travel, merging on a highway at say 5 mph and the semi was travelling at the speed of traffic, maybe 65 mph, how would he be at fault for rear-ending the merging party, who clearly failed to yield?? While the rear-end and backing examples are good starting points, they are by no means 100% conclusive -- an noone should assume this.
Joe: Your words make sense, and you seem to know what you are speaking of, but my gut says 8k is absurd. In addition, while GA does formally recognize DV and a few other states may or may not, you need to prove the actual loss in most states. That is a huge burden, especially if you haven't realized that loss (sold the car) But more importantly, next time you have a G35 fixed for 16k, that was worth 20k and you are selling it for 12, give me a call -- I'll buy it in a hot second and make another 4 off the sale tomorrow.
gmccardle: Salvage parts that are sold through ins. quotes are going to be OEM parts. They are the same parts as are on your vehicle. Also, if USAA uses an 80% threshold and are not forced by the state, 500.00 isn't going to help you. It's their threshold and they can move it as they need to or see fit. What is shocking to me is that they don't think that a repair cost of 16k on a car valued at 20.5 is enough to total it. I would think they could get a 5k salvage bid on that vehicle certainly that would make it an economic total. To put you at ease, however, four hours on your frame is not bad at all -- in fact, the shop probably has 3 of that as setup time.
i thank both you and marsha7 w.r.t. DV - you've have indicated it's necessary to pre-calibrate oneself as to what is likely to be the outcome.
from personal experience, i had an approx 12K used car incur perhaps 10K in damages. it was fixed expertly, but I too was curious as to why it wasn't totaled out before repairs were attempted.
i was also interested to see how the repair estimate came right up to the point of bumping into the 80% threshold... it almost seemed that the ins. co. and the preferred repair shop were in lockstep on what was going to happen.
i sort of watched the whole thing unfold and prayed the vehicle would drive and operate properly post accident and post repair. i was pleasantly surprised with the result, but i've heard horror stories of people getting cars repaired that are never quite right post repairs.
i think the DV i received was on the order of 1K-1.5K. i can't remember the exact amount, but since i was at fault, i wasn't pushing the issue with the ins. co.
i was the one that brought up the issue of DV, not the ins. co. i trust many people don't even know when and if they are entitled to it.
in the end, i find some claims here w.r.t. DV valuation, and the efficacy of rejecting an ins. co. offer, or taking the legal course to go after the party at fault to be rather optimistic.
This is sort of a complicated issue to explain, so I'll do my best to be concise and clear.
I've had auto coverage from USAA since 1988. I've always had wage loss reimbursement coverage as part of my PIP. In 2003 I was called back to active Army duty and deployed for 18 months. During my deployment, I lowered my coverage on my car to the bare minimum since no one would be driving it in my absence. The insurance policies during my deployment had the words "wage loss N/A for named insd" in the PIP section of coverage. The polices sent during my deployment also informed the insured soldier that once they were released from active duty that their coverage would revert automatically to the level of coverage that was on the the policy prior to deployment. In principle, that sounds like a good idea to protect the interests of returning troops whose first thoughts upon returning home may not be of automobile coverage.
Here is my situation: I was back home on leave for a few days in mid-July of 2004. I was still on active duty orders, just visiting home. I wanted to drive my car while I was home so I called USAA to have my previous level of coverage renewed. After a few days at home I returned back to my duty station. The new policy still stated in the PIP section of my policy that "wage loss N/A for named insd". At that point I was a couple thousand miles from home and honestly did not see the the policy that was sent to my home or honestly give it a second thought.
I was finally released from active duty in early August of 2004 and returned home. I didn't notice it at the time, but USAA DID NOT return my policy to the coverage levels I had before deployment. They continued to list "wage loss N/A for named insd" on my policy papers. The wage loss coverage was automatic with their PIP coverage and was something you had to actively opt out of if you didn't want to pay the $8 premium for 6 months. All of my subsequent policies since returning home have had the same wage loss statement on them. I never gave it much thought and just paid the premiums since that time. It might be significant to not that I sold my Pathfinder and transferred coverage to my Infiniti in Oct of 2004.
Cut to May of this year when I was T boned by an underinsured driver who ran a stop sign. I missed four days of work and called USAA for wage reimbursement. The adjuster was planning on direct depositing the money into my account when I asked her what this "wage loss N/A for named insd" meant. She said she had never seen that before and she'd have to look into it. Later she called back and said I must have opted out of the coverage. I did not. I asked to see proof of my alleged decision to opt out, but they could not produce any. They did say it was in their notes from when I reactivated my policy in July of 2003. There is no way that I would have opted out of wage loss coverage to save myself $8 every six months. They refused to cover my lost wages. I was forced to use what precious little vacation time I had in order to ensure a full paycheck.
My adjuster said she sent the matter to underwriting who sent it to legal who said that since I did not contest the change in policy earlier that I must have de facto accepted it and therefore they refused to pay me lost wages. I was injured in the accident and my doctors recommend I take time off to de stress and recover more quickly. USAAs failure to pay my lost wages prevents that. The driver who hit me only had $10K of property damage coverage and I guess there is no way to get lost wages out of that.
I feel this is an unforgivable way to treat a Vet and loyal customer. Any thought on this or ideas on how I may pursue a complaint on this would be greatly appreciated. I doubt a PIP attorney would touch the case because there is not much money in it for them. The money and ability to take time off when I need it because of injuries sustained in the accident would be a great help for me.
Unfortunately for you, and I'm sorry, Auto INsurance Companies seem to exist so that they can screw their own customers and it doesn't matter who you are. They just love acting in "unforgivable ways."
I think you are getting it "stuck to you" because you "called/phoned" them to reinstate your "previous" coverages. That was your biggest mistake. You have to get it in writing, and you have to have proof they received it and responded to it. Then, you have the obligation of checking what they've done, reading and understanding sometimes overly complicated and incomprehensible policy statements and declarations (Bristol West is famous for making an unintelligible policy declaration page), and correcting their errors.
I was in a similar fight over whether I had uninsured property damage coverage. I had faxed them in writing and had a fax confirmation. Originally, they denied they had ever received a request to add the coverage, specifically, which I had done in writing on the fax. I then sent them the fax and fax confirmation page proving they got my letter.
They then just called it a "clerical or examiner error" but they still chose to screw me for not attempting to fix it more than 4 or 5 times, which I had. Unfortunately, I had only attempted to fix it in WRITING once. I wasn't even sure it wasn't right because the forms were so convoluted. But I found out it wasn't right for sure when I had my claim denied.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"The polices sent during my deployment also informed the insured soldier that once they were released from active duty that their coverage would revert automatically to the level of coverage that was on the the policy prior to deployment."
IMO the above trumps "legal who said that since I did not contest the change in policy earlier that I must have de facto accepted it. (this is BS Bluff)
IMO if USAA doesn't have your "Payroll signature" on a form agreeing to delete the benefit - they owe it to you.
I hate insurance companies, so don't get me wrong, but playing the devil's advocate:
Your signature is not required because you issued payment, thereby agreeing to what you were paying for. Since we didn't charge you the extra $8, you can't collect a claim that the $8 would have bought. You should have wrote on your payment check "overpaid $8 to add wage loss coverage" and written the check for $8 over the premium.
Insurance Companies will do anything, ANYTHING, legal and illegal, to get out of paying claims.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
" think you are getting it "stuck to you" because you "called/phoned" them to reinstate your "previous" coverages. That was your biggest mistake.
The officer did not make a mistake at all.
Remember, "the insured soldier that once they were released from active duty that their coverage would revert automatically to the level of coverage that was on the the policy prior to deployment."
When the officer made the call, he had NOT been released from active duty, therefore no mistake was made by him.
His coverages were not to be altered upon release from AD.
I don't understand the significance of the "cutoff" and why 125% of $20,000 is significant.
No, that was 125% of $16,000 which is $20,000.
You had said that the insurance company will total the car if the cost of repair exceeds 80% of the value of the car. That means that the value of the car would be the cost of repairs divided by 80% which is the same as multiplying by 125%.
I was basically reversing the problem and calculating what the value of the car would have to be in order to total it given that the repair cost is $16,000. That works out to $20,000.
SGT: I couldn't agree with you more. I said if they could prove by some means, "payroll signature" or verbal recording over the phone, that I had opted out of wage loss reimbursement, I would back off my request. All they could come up with were notes from whoever answered the call to reinstate my coverage. I should not have to pay for their clerical error just because I hadn't caught it earlier.
I'm not longer naive, but it ticks me off beyond words that they refuse to shell out a few hundred bucks and admit to a clerical error on their part. I asked how I could appeal the decision and they said I could not, that it was absolutely final.
I wish the public was aware of how they treat their long term clients who put their life on the line to protect our freedoms only to be cheated out of a few hundred dollars on a technicality.
I guess I'll just have to "suck it up" and "drive on" as we say in the Army.
I was told by my insurance company's adjuster that the actual cash value of my car was determined to be $20,529 with sales tax. My most recent and supposedly "final" estimate from the body shop is for $16,151 for repairs. I'm told that the state of Florida has to include sales tax and other closing costs to reimburse a client when the total a vehicle. The sales tax amount is whatever you paid for your totaled vehicle, or for the vehicle you replace it with, whichever is less.
I'm wondering now if that $20,500 figure included the sales taxes or if it was just the value of the car alone? Should sales tax be considered when calculating the amount of damage needed to total a vehicle? Even if it is just the ACV, 80% of $20,500 ends up to be $16,400. That is an amazing $249 from a total loss!!! How very convenient! How could I ever get rid of a car that was 98% totaled?
Any thoughts on what I could do or have them reevaluate to put it over the top?
Comments
Even if you do have insurance, it is a good idea to call your agent for advice when you are about to purchase a car. Anytime you have questions call the agent. It's his business to get the right answers for you.
But if it's binding mediation, it starts as negotiation but ends up as arbitration, because a result is forced on the parties if they can't reach a settlement during the mediation phase.
Commercial Liability Insurance follows state law which says Libility follows the vehicle. So, go after the company that lists the truck on their insurance. If the truck is leased the Lessor should have a Certificate of Insurance from the Lessee. The primary carrier should honor your claim and look to the carrier on the Certificate of Insurance for reimbursement.
but that's just an assumption on my part.
What is FAIR is a matter of opinion. If you are the injured party what is fair is the maximum amount your lawyer can get. If you are paying off the claim anything over $0 is unfair.
Here's a rule of thumb: If you are making a claim figure out what you would be willing to settle for and ad a zero to the end of the figure. If you a paying a claim take the figure being asked for and remove a zero from the end.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If you want to know whether a particular settlement offer is "fair," hire a lawyer to evaluate it.
You say, "...because your adjuster had make contact with both the truck driver and the trucking company is known, seems like your ins. co should be good to go."
I ask you, what do you mean by "good to go"?
If poster's liability only protects the other guy, and his UM coverage is only for injuries, where do you expect his company "to go"?
The other company may not have ANY money left to offer you if it gives it all to your company as reimbursement for your car repair.
Did you call the other company and ask for money for DV and rental yet? If so, what did they tell you?
Did you call your company to find out if it would be asking the other driver's company to reimburse them for the $14,000 (or a portion of it) that it spent to pay for your car's repairs? If so, what did they tell you?
As to the value of the DV claim, negotiate with the other company. Have you started? If so, where are they and where are you? How far apart are you on your offers? (And how did you decide what the lowest figure is that you would ultimately accept to settle the DV claim? What amount is it?)
You may have to end up arguing with your OWN company about how much IT should pay you for the DV and rental out of any money it received from the other company. Have you asked them about the possibility? If so, what did they tell you?
The injured person must decide what he'd settle for, and the other side has to determine how much they'd pay.
Ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers.
If you did not cause the accident or your injuries, and your injuries are significant, and if the other side has a large pot of money to pay from, you'd be well advised to discuss your case ASAP with a personal injury lawyer BEFORE saying ANYTHING else to anyone.
I called the other company and they told me my ins company would have to sign a release stating they would accept what is left over after out of pocket expenses and DV.
They said they would pay my rental reimbursement once I send them a final receipt from the rental car co. Since my car still isn't fixed I'm not sure what the full amount will be.
My insurance co says they'll accept what is left over once I get my rental costs and DV from the other company.
I'm not sure where to start with the DV demand. That is my main issue. My atty is covering the personal injury claim and is doing minimal work in the property damage end of things. He will send the demand letter though once I get the figures. I thought once I get my car back and take it to the local Infiniti dealership and see what it would be worth to them after the see what the extent of the damage was. I also read that the ins companies have a formula that they use to calculate DV.
My insurance co says that is against FL law for them to pay me DV on my car. They say they will pay no more for the rental since I've exhausted the $900 of coverage provided by my auto ins policy.
Basically, I just have to determine how much of that $10K to ask for.
First of all, you must realize you CAN NOT accurately determine diminished value UNTIL your car is completely repaired. OK?
But you can begin to figure it out now. Get a hold of a car value guide such as NADA, Kelley Blue Book, Edmunds, etc. or find one online. Use it to determine your car's value just BEFORE the accident happened. Be honest with yourself about your car's condition then. Figure the value based on private party sale or as trade-in value or wholesale value. If you are a person who would likely dispose of your car by selling it yourself, write down the private book price. If you would be more likely to trade your car at a dealership, write down the trade-in or wholesale value. Now, multiply the price you wrote down by 40% to determine the amount you should ask for a diminished value. Demand that amount ONLY if you get a perfectly repaired car back from the shop. If the repairs are not perfect then you should claim even more DV due to the accident and repairs. Or, you can tell your company the repairs are not satisfactory and try to get them to persuade the shop to do it over, even if your insurance company has to pay more to get it fixed right. Or, you could take the car back to the shop on your own and tell them the repairs are not right and ask them to do it again so it is right. If both methods are unsuccessful, or if you can't tell if the initial repairs are good, then you can hire an auto appraiser to inspect your car and write a report as to the apparant quality of the repairs. His report should include the costs needed to make the car right. Add his fee and the cost of the needed additional repair work onto the 40% DV figure you calculated before. That is your new DV claim.
Demand that amount from the other company for your car's Diminished Value. In your case it will likely be between about $8,000 to $10,000. So if your company will agree to sign that waiver you mentioned earlier, your company will get NONE of their $14,000 back and YOU will get the entire $10,000 of coverage from the other company.
Anything less to you I'd say is unfair. If I were the judge or arbitrator of your case, I'd allow the 8-10 thousand dollars as diminished value.
Good luck.
(I think I said this all before in this forum, but I can't remember all the past posts either. And I do not even have an injury causing my memory loss)
Negotiate towards a settlement on any DV claim. If you can't reach an agreement, hire an expert and sue the other driver, with or without a lawyer, depending on the amount you are trying to recover and the court rules in your locale. In that case, the arbitrator, jury or judge would determine the DV.
what you've postulated is a sane and fair way to determine true DV, but this WILL NOT be anywhere near or similar to the value someone's INS. CO. will come back with after the vehicle is repaired.
no way, no how.
now, like we exchanged, you can take someone to court, but rots-o-ruck going that route. by the time you factor in time, effort, expenses, your gain will be minimal on the typical enconomy sedan, even higher-end SUV, i'm questioning the cost/benefit equation.
now, if I were driving a porche, lamborghini or ferrari, then i could see the benefit of your advice, otherwise, well i just don't see it. but that is just a personal opinion.
Where did that come from?
He wasn't driving his insured car (with only 10 or 15K property damage coverage; so underinsured), but since he was driving his sister's new "used" car, and she didn't have insurance, it was an UNinsured claim at this point according to CA law I'm told by my Insurance company which is Mercury. Unfortunately insurance companies have devised a sneaky plan whereby even with all of the un/underinsured coverages, and collision deductible waiver in that event, you can still be financially hit by a reckless driver causing a not at fault accident for yourself. The scam/trick????
Well, simple, there is no such thing as uninsured rental car coverage!!!! I had to pay for the rental, and Mercury said they could "tack on that expense" in their claim/subrogation/lawsuit against the driver that was at fault. So insurance follows the car but blame follows the driver? I don't get it. Insurance should always follow the person driving; whoever came up with the insane idea insurance should follow the vehicle and not the driver?
Anyway, enough of my ranting. This happened in February, and to date the driver's insurance company has never contacted me to say the claim was denied, last I heard it was a question of coverage in review. Secondly, I haven't heard from Mercury about recovering my $200 in rental costs, or when this lawsuit will be brought forth????
What should I do? The last thing I want to do is let anyone off the hook. I'm the type of person who'd spend 2,000 dollars trying to recover my $200, and lots of time in order to stick it to an insurance company or bad driver.
Anyway, if you have any advice or specific guidelines "the appropriate amount of car lengths generally required to merge into 20 mph traffic" I would appreciate it. My wife truly believes that she was a victim of "agressive driving" and just needs some help conveying this to the insurance company.
as far as insurance following the driver, that wouldn't get as much money for the insurance company. For instance, if insurance was, say, $800 per year per person, it wouldn't matter if I had 1 car or 5 cars, I'd still be paying $800. But since it is insured by car, I have to pay $4k for my 5 cars (just an example, I really don't pay that).
PLUS, if it was by person, and your brother-in-law borrows your car and wrecks it ... but ooops, he doesn't have insurance on himself.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Say stupid things that you are not sure are true (like 3 to 4 car lengths) and it could be used against you; despite all logic to the contrary.
I'd judge against her because it appears she tried to merge where there was not multiple car lenghts but only 1/2 a car length. She didn't fit, and she hit the front end of the truck, on the side. This created the side motion in her vehicle that spun it out, and he was unable to stop (because trucks stop slowly) and proceeded to hit her in the side because she slowed down too fast in a lane she should have been going forward in (not sideways). Going sideways slows you down way too fast to be safe.
Thats what it sounds like.
Although this may be true, aggressive driving does not equal "at-fault" driving. Insurance companies don't care much about the intricacies and details, they are more black and white about things.
Your wife's claims of "20 mph", "four car lengths" and "the truck driver accelerated" are dubious since she cannot be looking both forward and backward at the same time. The fact that the car got pushed to the side suggests that the collision was more of a glancing or oblique strike than a direct rear-end hit - i.e. she was merging unsafely. Also, it seems rather unlikely that a truck driver would accelerate to the point of colliding with another vehicle.
In any case, you may want to seek legal counsel. Good luck!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
The "driver's manual" and references to things being trumped by the more stringent requirement is the insurance industries way of looking at things black and white.
For example, your always at fault if your backing up and the other person is going forward, all the time, no matter what. Simply the act of backing up requires you to take greater care and liability. I don't agree with some of these "trumped" notions, but the key in the case being discussed is that her vehicle went sideways, which suggests it wasn't a rear end collision to begin with.
She should have just stayed in the lane and taken a direct hit, then there would be no question whatsover that she's NOT at fault. It would just be "Mr. Insurance guy, I was rear ended, end of story."
If she can honestly say she saw the truck coming from behind at an unsafe high rate of speed and was about to rear end her, and then she tried to make another manuever to get out of the way to the right, but did so too late or too slowly, I think you might have a case, but it'll be EXTREMELY hard to prove.
The left rear/side tail light hit makes it start to look more like a side-swipe than rear end, which is bad news for your wife. If traffic was indeed going 20 MPH and the truck driver did all of this and still hit her, he might well have done it on purpose or rage. I would think at that slow of a speed he should have been able to stop.
Its the same as saying you weren't backing up, because you had already completed backing up, and that you were in a "stopped" position changing gears.
If I read correctly, she was trying to merge in 20 mph gridlocked traffic...I believe this is another one of those instances where the driver who may rear-end you may not be at fault, simply because merging requires the merging driver to yield to all other traffic...
While the other driver may have bee somewhat aggressive, he also had the right of way...while he could have been more courteous, he did have the right of way whether traffic was 20, 40, or 70 mph...
Unless I misunderstood your post, I fail to see how anyone could be charged for causing this wreck, other than your wife, regardless of how many lengths she estimated...
What did I miss???
RE: Diminished Value...to my knowledge, GA is one of few states that mandates diminished value, most other states do not even acknowledge its existence, so demanding compensation for it is simply blowing hot air to an insurance company...as far as any magic formula, that is beyond wishful thinking...but I would think that the best way to determine DV is to take the vehicle to the used car manager of the dealership selling that brand, find out its value with the damage, and then the mgr should be able to estimate its value w/o the damage...do that at 2-3 dealers, and come up with an average...then pray...
My question is this: What can I do to contest this estimate since it is so close to totalling the car? I know if OEM parts were used to repair the car the repair costs would be much higher. I also know the repair shop does not have to use OEM parts. Many junkyard parts have been used to put my car back together again. It has been in the shop for over 8 weeks now! The estimate shows 4 hours on the frame machine. I honestly don't feel this car is as safe as before and I know it is not nearly worth what it was. How can one make an argument that the car should be determined to be a total loss?
I would suggest doing a little legwork to find out what comparably equipped G35s are selling for in your area. The price your dealer gave you is certain to be several thousand dollars below the selling price.
The worst that can happen is that they would reject your numbers but they would be real world figures which are hard to argue against.
I also find it interesting that the value they placed on the car is just $500 above the cutoff (125% of $16,000 = $20,000). How convenient.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
That would change things.
Most often a car is considered an (actual) total loss if repair costs minus salvage value is greater than the pre-accident value.
You can put it all on paper as accurately as possible and try to negotiate with the company.
I have seen claims settled both ways.
Can anyone tell me which states prohibit a diminished value claim from being made by a fault free victim against the other negligent driver? (I am NOT talking about a 1st party claim against a person's OWN company here, ok?)
A 2003 car with 46,000 miles is older and more used than I'd like to see when hoping to recover a high dollar diminished value claim. The newer the car and the lower the mileage the stronger is your DV claim in my estimation.
But even with an older car with high miles the principle is the same as are the types of evidence that should be persuasive.
Taken to an extreme for illustration's sake, if a 15 year old car in pretty good roadworthy shape was damaged severely and the owner tried to collect diminished value it would be much harder to gather persuasive evidence. It is also more likely, almost a surety, that the car would be totalled before ever reaching the DV issue anyway. Then your battle would be to try proving that your old beater was special and more valuable than whatever amount the insurance company offers to pay to allow you to replace it.
I'll have to do that legwork fast to find out the actual selling prices for a comparably equipped G35 in my area. I'm sure the repair shop (and my ins co) will want me to sign off on the repairs since they say the car is "done". Should I include private party sales (if I can find the info)? What kind of weight might estimates from sources such as Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Book carry with insurance companies?
Sorry for my ignorance of the way auto insurance works, but I don't understand the significance of the "cutoff" and why 125% of $20,000 is significant. It sounds like something I should definitely learn quickly.
There has to be some way to prove an additional $500 of damage to my car. They told me the car was almost done and then they found another $5000 in damage.
I'll have to go over my policy with a fine toothed comb again to see if non-payment of DV by my insurance company is included in there. I have it in an email message that my insurance adjuster told me that FL law did not allow payment of DV by the 1st party. I suppose I'll have to look into that as well.
I see all kinds of pay for service DV businesses are out there on the internet. What are your thoughts on those?
Andres3: I have no idea what state or country you live in, but you have made some very broad liability statements that are -- simply -- not true. If his wife established herself in the lane of travel, merging on a highway at say 5 mph and the semi was travelling at the speed of traffic, maybe 65 mph, how would he be at fault for rear-ending the merging party, who clearly failed to yield?? While the rear-end and backing examples are good starting points, they are by no means 100% conclusive -- an noone should assume this.
Joe: Your words make sense, and you seem to know what you are speaking of, but my gut says 8k is absurd. In addition, while GA does formally recognize DV and a few other states may or may not, you need to prove the actual loss in most states. That is a huge burden, especially if you haven't realized that loss (sold the car) But more importantly, next time you have a G35 fixed for 16k, that was worth 20k and you are selling it for 12, give me a call -- I'll buy it in a hot second and make another 4 off the sale tomorrow.
gmccardle: Salvage parts that are sold through ins. quotes are going to be OEM parts. They are the same parts as are on your vehicle. Also, if USAA uses an 80% threshold and are not forced by the state, 500.00 isn't going to help you. It's their threshold and they can move it as they need to or see fit. What is shocking to me is that they don't think that a repair cost of 16k on a car valued at 20.5 is enough to total it. I would think they could get a 5k salvage bid on that vehicle certainly that would make it an economic total. To put you at ease, however, four hours on your frame is not bad at all -- in fact, the shop probably has 3 of that as setup time.
from personal experience, i had an approx 12K used car incur perhaps 10K in damages. it was fixed expertly, but I too was curious as to why it wasn't totaled out before repairs were attempted.
i was also interested to see how the repair estimate came right up to the point of bumping into the 80% threshold... it almost seemed that the ins. co. and the preferred repair shop were in lockstep on what was going to happen.
i sort of watched the whole thing unfold and prayed the vehicle would drive and operate properly post accident and post repair. i was pleasantly surprised with the result, but i've heard horror stories of people getting cars repaired that are never quite right post repairs.
i think the DV i received was on the order of 1K-1.5K. i can't remember the exact amount, but since i was at fault, i wasn't pushing the issue with the ins. co.
i was the one that brought up the issue of DV, not the ins. co. i trust many people don't even know when and if they are entitled to it.
in the end, i find some claims here w.r.t. DV valuation, and the efficacy of rejecting an ins. co. offer, or taking the legal course to go after the party at fault to be rather optimistic.
YMMV
I've had auto coverage from USAA since 1988. I've always had wage loss reimbursement coverage as part of my PIP. In 2003 I was called back to active Army duty and deployed for 18 months. During my deployment, I lowered my coverage on my car to the bare minimum since no one would be driving it in my absence. The insurance policies during my deployment had the words "wage loss N/A for named insd" in the PIP section of coverage. The polices sent during my deployment also informed the insured soldier that once they were released from active duty that their coverage would revert automatically to the level of coverage that was on the the policy prior to deployment. In principle, that sounds like a good idea to protect the interests of returning troops whose first thoughts upon returning home may not be of automobile coverage.
Here is my situation: I was back home on leave for a few days in mid-July of 2004. I was still on active duty orders, just visiting home. I wanted to drive my car while I was home so I called USAA to have my previous level of coverage renewed. After a few days at home I returned back to my duty station. The new policy still stated in the PIP section of my policy that "wage loss N/A for named insd". At that point I was a couple thousand miles from home and honestly did not see the the policy that was sent to my home or honestly give it a second thought.
I was finally released from active duty in early August of 2004 and returned home. I didn't notice it at the time, but USAA DID NOT return my policy to the coverage levels I had before deployment. They continued to list "wage loss N/A for named insd" on my policy papers. The wage loss coverage was automatic with their PIP coverage and was something you had to actively opt out of if you didn't want to pay the $8 premium for 6 months. All of my subsequent policies since returning home have had the same wage loss statement on them. I never gave it much thought and just paid the premiums since that time. It might be significant to not that I sold my Pathfinder and transferred coverage to my Infiniti in Oct of 2004.
Cut to May of this year when I was T boned by an underinsured driver who ran a stop sign. I missed four days of work and called USAA for wage reimbursement. The adjuster was planning on direct depositing the money into my account when I asked her what this "wage loss N/A for named insd" meant. She said she had never seen that before and she'd have to look into it. Later she called back and said I must have opted out of the coverage. I did not. I asked to see proof of my alleged decision to opt out, but they could not produce any. They did say it was in their notes from when I reactivated my policy in July of 2003. There is no way that I would have opted out of wage loss coverage to save myself $8 every six months. They refused to cover my lost wages. I was forced to use what precious little vacation time I had in order to ensure a full paycheck.
My adjuster said she sent the matter to underwriting who sent it to legal who said that since I did not contest the change in policy earlier that I must have de facto accepted it and therefore they refused to pay me lost wages. I was injured in the accident and my doctors recommend I take time off to de stress and recover more quickly. USAAs failure to pay my lost wages prevents that. The driver who hit me only had $10K of property damage coverage and I guess there is no way to get lost wages out of that.
I feel this is an unforgivable way to treat a Vet and loyal customer. Any thought on this or ideas on how I may pursue a complaint on this would be greatly appreciated. I doubt a PIP attorney would touch the case because there is not much money in it for them. The money and ability to take time off when I need it because of injuries sustained in the accident would be a great help for me.
I think you are getting it "stuck to you" because you "called/phoned" them to reinstate your "previous" coverages. That was your biggest mistake. You have to get it in writing, and you have to have proof they received it and responded to it. Then, you have the obligation of checking what they've done, reading and understanding sometimes overly complicated and incomprehensible policy statements and declarations (Bristol West is famous for making an unintelligible policy declaration page), and correcting their errors.
I was in a similar fight over whether I had uninsured property damage coverage. I had faxed them in writing and had a fax confirmation. Originally, they denied they had ever received a request to add the coverage, specifically, which I had done in writing on the fax. I then sent them the fax and fax confirmation page proving they got my letter.
They then just called it a "clerical or examiner error" but they still chose to screw me for not attempting to fix it more than 4 or 5 times, which I had. Unfortunately, I had only attempted to fix it in WRITING once. I wasn't even sure it wasn't right because the forms were so convoluted. But I found out it wasn't right for sure when I had my claim denied.
IMO the above trumps "legal who said that since I did not contest the change in policy earlier that I must have de facto accepted it. (this is BS Bluff)
IMO if USAA doesn't have your "Payroll signature" on a form agreeing to delete the benefit - they owe it to you.
This former Sgt. says "Pay the officer!" :mad:
Your signature is not required because you issued payment, thereby agreeing to what you were paying for. Since we didn't charge you the extra $8, you can't collect a claim that the $8 would have bought. You should have wrote on your payment check "overpaid $8 to add wage loss coverage" and written the check for $8 over the premium.
Insurance Companies will do anything, ANYTHING, legal and illegal, to get out of paying claims.
The officer did not make a mistake at all.
Remember, "the insured soldier that once they were released from active duty that their coverage would revert automatically to the level of coverage that was on the the policy prior to deployment."
When the officer made the call, he had NOT been released from active duty, therefore no mistake was made by him.
His coverages were not to be altered upon release from AD.
No, that was 125% of $16,000 which is $20,000.
You had said that the insurance company will total the car if the cost of repair exceeds 80% of the value of the car. That means that the value of the car would be the cost of repairs divided by 80% which is the same as multiplying by 125%.
I was basically reversing the problem and calculating what the value of the car would have to be in order to total it given that the repair cost is $16,000. That works out to $20,000.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I'm not longer naive, but it ticks me off beyond words that they refuse to shell out a few hundred bucks and admit to a clerical error on their part. I asked how I could appeal the decision and they said I could not, that it was absolutely final.
I wish the public was aware of how they treat their long term clients who put their life on the line to protect our freedoms only to be cheated out of a few hundred dollars on a technicality.
I guess I'll just have to "suck it up" and "drive on" as we say in the Army.
I was told by my insurance company's adjuster that the actual cash value of my car was determined to be $20,529 with sales tax. My most recent and supposedly "final" estimate from the body shop is for $16,151 for repairs. I'm told that the state of Florida has to include sales tax and other closing costs to reimburse a client when the total a vehicle. The sales tax amount is whatever you paid for your totaled vehicle, or for the vehicle you replace it with, whichever is less.
I'm wondering now if that $20,500 figure included the sales taxes or if it was just the value of the car alone? Should sales tax be considered when calculating the amount of damage needed to total a vehicle? Even if it is just the ACV, 80% of $20,500 ends up to be $16,400. That is an amazing $249 from a total loss!!! How very convenient! How could I ever get rid of a car that was 98% totaled?
Any thoughts on what I could do or have them reevaluate to put it over the top?