"Valve adjustments require special tools and camshaft removal, and is beyond the scope of this book. This procedure should be performed by an authorized dealer, or referred to a qualified Toyota service center."
My Caddys DOHCs are run on chains and need no EXPENSIVE valve adjustments, shims or Rubber Band replacements like those FLAWLESS Toy V-8s (with their cold start knock).............Geo
BTW: My Rado WORKED HARD this winter Snowplowing, haulin', Gee its almost time to pull out my Big wellcraft and Coachman trailer and do some towing ! Lets see a Toy pull those big monsters !
talk about cold start engine knock problems on ANY other truck. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Besides the chevy knock is alot more widespread than that of any other manufacturer.
Tundra's have been noted to experience occassional cold knock for a few seconds. Funny thing is though, Sonjaab's Rado and other GMs have been noted for not only prolonged cold knock, but warm continuous knocking, and we're not talking about break in period either. There's a whole discussion set aside for GM knock. Yes theres more GM trucks on road than Toyotas, but the % of knocking seems more common with GM.
Sonjaab has continually posted to these Toyota threads only to knock Toyota. At least the other non Toy owners posts are constructive for most part. I'm yet to read anything from Sonjaab that is factual or constructive to a thread. Maybe he's a disgruntled owner, who knows.
This poster further shows their intelligence by bashing the Tundra, yet they own a Knockerado themselves. I'll take a Tundra's ocassional cold knock over GMs anyday. BTW Sonjaab, the Tundra was never designed to pull the monsters as you describe. It has it's limits as all things do, and is a 1/2 ton truck at best.
I thought my 2500HD was one of the worst with the knock lasting up to a minute in sub-freezing weather ,and almost none now that it's in the 50's in the mornings.
I didn't even know that the knock occurred in those motors at all. My dad just bought a new z71, and they have always been my favorite "big" trucks. Big as opposed to my Taco. Haha. I just defend the Yotas when they get a bad rap. Tacomas are really the only Yotas that I really like alot. So don't get me wrong. And I think a modded 2500 HD would prolly be my dream truck. You have the Allison right? Does that tranny seem to be better with the 8.1 or Duramax? Did you consider the diesel?
KG was telling people to buy a Ford a few posts ago. Now his Lemonado is mysteriously healing! Next thing he will post is how great it is to be on his third transmission.
KG, you said that Quad was right. Back up your statement. Give me details. I think it is funny that so-called Chev owners seem to have copies of Tundra owner and service manuals available.
I have never had a compulsion to buy a Chev Lemonado owners or service manual, and therefore cannot knowledgeably comment on them. What is Flappy and your's secret?
A relative of mine just bought a Silverado 2500 with a 6L. He says it sounds like someone is hammering on the block with a hammer when he starts it. Chev told him it was due to the lifters. That's funny - Tundras don't have lifters. Is this Chebby superiority at work?
Personally, I think he is a victim of engine knock. He said he has a friend with the same problem. His friend is retired, and has said he is not going to take the "everything is peachy" line from GM. They are leaving their poor buyers out to swing in the breeze.
I told him about the GM piston slap site, and he said he is going to let GM have it. Maybe a class action lawsuit?
What you've stated in the last line of your post is nothing new to us. It is par for the course, needless to say regarding the topic of credibility, on a scale of 1-10 I'd give him a 0.5. But then again, thats my opinion...
I am curious to see an offering by Toyota in the 3/4 ton class, especially after seeing what they offered in the half ton.
This is simply a post in answer to a few questions, no intentions in turning this into a engine knock thread or anything else. I dont claim to be an expert on GM engine knock, but after posting about warm knock, a few seem to doubt the idea. Tundra's have experienced a short cold knock, as well as GM trucks. The GMs cold knock seems to last more than a few seconds however, some times 30+ seconds.
These are a few excerpts from the GM engine knock thread regarding knocking under warm engine conditions :
1)"My 2001 Silverado has a pronounced engine knock after warm up and only under load." 2)"Customer states the truck has a cold engine tap on start up and occasionally when warm." 3)"sounds like a lot of us are getting this "tapping" noise when our engines are idling "
4)"Have any of you noticed the knocking noise (piston slap or whatever) when the engine was still warm? I notice the noise on cold starts almost regularly, and the same noise is present as in today I went to a store and came back out approx. 1/2 hour later, hit the remote start, and again heard the noise. Temp gauge read about 190 or so, outside temp. around 25-30 degrees"
5) 5.3 liter hot start engine knock by sludge2 Dec 12, 2001 (01:13 pm) " I own a 2000 suburban with a 5.3 liter engine. when I restart a hot engine I somtimes here a pop knock noise. The problem is that it doesent happen all the time. the dealer herd the knock once , and said it is normal."
So these are just few examples of non cold knock in GMs. In addition, I have a friend who is a mechanic I used to work with in an engine shop. He currently works at Chevy dealer down street and heres a summary of what he's told me ...
Yes he has seen plenty GM trucks with knock under ALL conditions the last few years, more so of the cold start type. The last few months he said they've received a number of knocks on warm start up as well as quite a few knocking under a load. Yes warm knock does exist.
Furthermore, I have 2 neighbors, one with 01 Sierra, other with 99 Rado. Both have had what they call slap/knock on cold start, driving around town, and the Sierra owner says he gets it cruising at highway speeds but very intermittently.
Heres what kills me though. An above poster from the GM knock thread asked "Have any of you noticed the knocking noise (piston slap or whatever) when the engine was still warm? "
Obyone asks us to explain the warm knock to him in this Toyota thread, yet here is Oby's response to the above question in GM engine knock ...
From what I understand by obyone Dec 09, 2001 (04:49 pm) " ... the problem lies with "some do it and some don't". If you have one that does, it becomes a problem. ... "
Lol, so Oby since you seem to acknowledge this warm knock, instead of asking me or anyone else in this thread to explain warm GM knock to you, maybe we should be asking you to explain it to us.
I'm saying cold knock seems more often and severe in GM vs. the Tundra. Give the Tundra's on the road a few more years to mature and we'll see where we stand then. I have never stated one way or another that cold/warm knock is detrimental/harmful to an engine. I remember seeing a post about knock where the guy says his engine knocked for something like 190,000 miles and still ran fine.
The reason I asked you about the warm knock is that mine doesn't. I'm thinking that you knew something first hand. Not my neighbor or my mechanic friend so on and so forth. I'm talking about YOUR personal experience with this warm knock.
You made a comment,
"Funny thing is though, Sonjaab's Rado and other GMs have been noted for not only prolonged cold knock, but warm continuous knocking, and we're not talking about break in period either."
As a person who owns neither a Tundra or a Silverado, I find it interesting that you make a comment regarding something you have no first hand experience. While I agree that a warm or even a cold knock might be a problem, I don't comment on it cause I have no first hand experience with it nor do I know the cause, the fix, or anything else regarding knocks for that matter.
Your post previous indicates that you have the ability to copy and paste. Is there anything else you'd like to share on a 3/4 ton Toyota topic? This is not a flame, rather again, I'm curious as to why your comments regarding Sonjaab and even this one which to me appears to be a personal attack...
"This poster further shows their intelligence by bashing the Tundra, yet they own a Knockerado themselves."
Obyone: do you have any first-hand experience with Tundra? I realize that you got trapped in a corner there, but it's no reason to go after credibility issue. There's a lot of "I read in other forums" info here.
Hey guys, REMEMBER I ALSO OWNED 2 TOYOYA pickups ! Can I refresh anyones memory about the problems I HAD with them ! BOTH bought brand new too !......geo
BTW: I am 46 yo and have had MANY cars and trucks ! Real world experience here ! Sorry all its not my first time at the barn dance............
Take a trip over to www.tundrasolutions.com ALL the FACTS there........ REAL TOY owners over there to tell ya the truth. And not a Chevy boy to be found...... DO YOU own a toyota ? GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE NOW !
Aren't those truck govt. owned ? Are they driven by many different drivers ? I suppose they are driven hard in the desert in Mexico. I have been there and the roads aint that great. ANY fleet vehicle driven under those conditions would turn any car or truck into a problematic one ? ANYWAYS If the toys are so tuff and rugged how come the Govt. don't buy em ?
" Yeah, I'm curious too Please describe this warm knock. We are talking knock right? Oh and please none of this forged piston stuff, ok? Thanks. "
Now to me this seems like someone who is making a mockary of the whole idea that warm knock exists. KG also asked about warm knock, im not sure if he actually didn't believe it happened or was being a little sarcastic. You seemed a little sarcastic in your post. If you weren't then my appologies.
As far as my own personal experience with knocking engines ... I started rebuiling engines in high school. Spent 3 years in shop there, moved on to college where I was team leader/lead mechanic for 2 years in engine rebuilding class, and then moved on to a private shop where I spent 3 years in engine overhaul/related work.
I've heard engines of all types ping/knock/slap etc. The engines that these seemed to be more common in were GMs 4.3, 4.8, 5.3s, and to a lesser degree some of the 3.0s in Olds./Pontiac and even a few 350s. Does that mean any of these engines were per-se junk ?? not at all. Maybe these engines were used differently/harsher according to the vehicles they were in. We had Ford's that knocked, although not quite as many, and for most part, many of the imports especially Toyota/Nissan were virtually knock free.
So to be honest, that's as PERSONAL to GMs knocking enignes as I wanna be. I've got 3 Gms sitting out front (Rado/Bonneville/Cutlass), none of them have ever knocked. Some of my older GMs have never had engine problems as well. So I'm certainly not a import die hard. I have however formed the opinion from my experience that I'm going to get better reliability and to some extent quality from an import. Toyota engines always impressed me and very few cars on road boast more original miles than Toyota.
As far as attacking Sonjaab. I will say that it seems the last few posts from him have just been short attacks on Tundra. At least yourself and other non Tundra owners can be somewhat constructive in posts. Looking over the last few posts from Sonjaab, I don't see anything thats beneficial to this forum.
No I don't have a solution to the cause of GMs knock. We've had success in shop by using lower/higher octane fuels, adjusting timing, switching to syn. motor oils, sometimes even changing spark plugs. There has never seemed to be one definite cause, differnet things worked on different engines. I've been away from the shop a few years so I don't know if any current theories exist.
If you're Rado is running great then I'm more than happy for ya. Yet like Saddaddy posted above, you getting down on the Tundra for cold knock, when you yourself drive a truck famous for knocking, in the Rado is like the pot calling kettle black.
I'm not sure who's been telling you the Tundra is flawless, but I would hope nobody actually believes that. Maybe some of the posters in here currently have ones that are flawless, but the truck as a whole has noted problems as all trucks do. Yes I've been to Tundra Solutions and find the folks to be brutally honest about the likes/dislikes of truck.
Believe me, I'm not buying the truck based on the thoughts of a few posters here in Edmund's lol. Truck has been noted to have rotor probs. and cold knock. Compared to problems of the other trucks, I find these very minor. The truck is still relatively new and as the years go on, we'll see just what the Tundra is actually made of. I look forward to a 3/4 ton soon, it only makes the competition come up with better stuff, which is in best interest of us all.
Not attacking any one..... Just the facts. And yes my Rado has a minor cold start knock. Had dealer print it up too. But living here in Frozen NY most of my vehicles have cold start knock when cold. Even my toyotas I had....... As far as warm engine knock. Which I thought was a lifter noise. Was only fuel pulsing thru the fuel rails and injectors. Mechanic at GM dealer whipped out his stethoscope and let me check myself ! By Golly he was right ! I posted this before in the gm knock thread too..............Geo
Was something my grandfather used to say about the virtues of argueing with those who come to your door trying to sell thier religion.My Gramps and Dad were ministers and I studied for a while too.
Never try to teach a pig to sing.It makes you look silly ,and it annoys the pig.
You won't see me giving him (you know who) anymore singing lessons because he has demonstrated repeatedly that he lacks the ability to reason.He will not respond to questions.His only reason for posting here is to be rude and belligerant.He's unaware of what HE has and claims to have all the answers about everyones business.I wouldn't be surprised to see him on my front porch telling me to go to HIS church (Tundra saves ?) or suffer the consiquences.
According to one of the mini truck posures all GM's are junk. Funny thing is he is the one driving a mini with a one star side impact rating that Toyota could care less about. Maybe it's your good fortune to be driving a GM junk instead of that deathtrap you call a truck.
I said Flappy was wrong. You said he was right. I asked for your source of information. Total silence. Your credibility is lacking. Maybe if you get Flappy or ObywannaTundra to post another couple of insults, it will divert attention from the facts. I guess you can hope!
Your truck sucks because of this, my truck is better because of that...Can't we all just GET ALONG! (In my best Rodney King voice).
urkillingme - I've looked through the scheduled maintenance section of my OM and don't remember seeing a blurb about adjusting the valves. But if they don't have hydraulic lifters, eventually they will need adjustment. No contention there. Big $$
You'll never hear Toyotas are not good trucks from me. They are great trucks. I also think GM and Ford are great trucks. However, none of them are perfect for every consumer.
I believe Mr. Quadrunner when he says he's seen the manual, I also believe my Toyota tech acquaintance. A simple call to a service dept will resolve it either way.
The fact a Toyota requires more scheduled maintenance may mean as much to someone as a hearsay comment that someone's brother's friend's uncle's 3rd cousin has had a problem with their GM/Ford.
You do sound like one of the more level headed Toyota owners, I thank you for that.
You may want to read my grandfather's advice in #478. The posted info will go unacknowledged as always. Expensive maintenance? Yew must be wuna them lyin' chevy boys!
"Will you try to change the subject again?Or can you just admit you made a simple mistake?"
In the 5 months I've been reading/posting here ,there's been only ONE POSTER who's never wrong and you just volenteered to be on his list.
I have the 8.1/Allison and the power IS AWSOME.I intended to supercharge it when I bought it but the Allison has had electronic problems and the engine DOES KNOCK.Supercharging would void the extended warranty.The cold start knock is much worse in COLD weather(something the troll calls "miracules recovery")It's not that bad right now but I expect it to worsen next winter.
TWOWHEELER First let me say most of us DO get along.I have nothing against Tundra.I just dont like being called stupid for not selling my Isuzu NPR or Ford 600 and delivering tons of steel a day with a fleet of Tundras. RE valve adjustment; I drove my Tacoma 106K mi without adjusting the valves but did replace the timing belt.Tundra does require more maintenance than Chev/Ford but it's nothing like the solid lifter 289 in my wife's old Mustang.
I understand grand dad's advice. I really think the one poster will come around. No one person can be that angry all the time. If it has been 5 months, maybe the spring will bring some peace to this lost soul.
YOU WERE DUPED! The statement the flaprunner claims was in the Tundra owners manual does not exist. How do I know? - I own a Tundra. (And therefore have an owner's manual). If you don't believe me - ask Flappy. (or consult your Tundra owner's manuals.
It is a shame that Quad put out a troll and snagged you two. He should be ashamed (NAAAAAH!!). Maybe in 5 months or so UR and KG will realize this. We can all hope.
KG - If your power is so awesome, why do you want to put on a supercharger?
I did not ever call you stupid. I did imply that you would not ever learn how to sing, and that I was not trying to train you. I hope you didn't take this as an insult. I know that it isn't your fault that you got stuck with a GM lemon.
UR- I don't get this angry binge you are on. I think it is amusing. Since the angry thing isn't working - can you try another troll? This is getting boring!
You claimed to have a service manual. Obviously you only have the owners manual. Toymota valve adjustments are performed by replacing shims located under buckets. Consult your dealer, and have your wallet out.
that exudes much anger and resentment. I personally do not have to rely on Mr. Quadrunner's information, I know that the very capable I-Force engine needs periodic adjustment and parts replacement that is quite costly that the domestics don't require.
Nobody here has read a reply to this fact except to be belittled.
I will readily admit that the domestics may need more annoyance visits to the dealership (even though I haven't needed to)than Toyota. It's clear that Toyota's scheduled maintenance is much more costly. I do believe this is a subject directly related to trucks.
Will someone please explain the "put out a troll" or "can you try another troll" comments. I'm new to this obvious berating lingo. Thank you in advance.
I sense a great deal of frustration on your part at not being able to make your obviously true maintenance information known. However, I do also feel you're fanning the flames and making the individual even more angry and irate by retaliating with the misspelling of his user name.
"it has a ways to go to match the Ford F-150 and Toyota Tundra when it comes to the quality of the materials and assembly. Brand loyalty drives plenty of sales in this segment..."
"After examining all 24 updates, we had well over three pages of problems. Even more striking was our realization that in two years, the Sierra had 20 warranty repairs. That's a new record for the long-term program, doubling our '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee's nine."
"As the months wore on, though, some of the truck's supporters grew rather embittered after repeated trips to the dealership for repairs. We suspect that many of the GMC's problems could have been prevented through the use of higher quality parts and stricter assembly protocol. The "Professional Grade" feeling begins to peter out after the steering column has been clunking and rattling for a year or so..."
"didn't bode well for long-term, trouble-free ownership."
"These aren't Toyota Tundras. They'll likely require more than just regular maintenance. Call it true truck character. Call it General Motors' cost-cutting. Either way, it's going to come out of your wallet after the warranty is over."
"Then, hours after I got home after spending 300 miles behind the wheel on a variety of paved and dirt surfaces, I discovered fluid leaking onto my driveway from the vicinity of the transfer case. The next day, I thought the transmission was back to its clunky shifting ways, especially when selecting reverse and when up- or downshifting into second. And there's a daytime running light burned out. The warranty ran out 800 miles ago.... So much for getting through a month with nothing going wrong with our truck...underneath the glossy black sheet metal, we knew that all was not right."
"If "solid build quality" or "reliability" is among your criteria, however, this GMC may disappoint you."
Urkilling - you think any of these posters go by their Edmunds names in here lmao. I think Spama is as close to his name as he is ever addressed as. Not sure if this thread is necessarily indicative of most Edmund's threads, but there are plenty of knowledgeable people in here. Even with all the banter that goes on, I think for most part it's done in good nature. I take these forums for what they are worth, which is usually mild entertainment.
Toyota makes changes in their engine design and yet blames the Toyota owner for engine sludge. Almost like knocking and forged pistons wouldn't you say?
Almost reminds me of a few of those complaints to the NHSTA site I ran across a few months ago. Believe they were on the 99 Rado. The few that I remember were ... one guy said he had to have near death grip on steering wheel, as it would be ripped out of his hand on rough roads lol. Then there was a guy who had his hubcap roll off, was replaced, only to roll into traffic again the next week lol.
The one that got me however, was a guy who turned car off and was attempting to exit vehicle, when the electrical seat malfunctioned and promptly pinned him to the steering wheel. He states he was unable to free himself for a few moments and complained of sore ribs the next 2 days lmao. These aren't necessarily funny because they were Chevy stories, would have been funny with Ford, Nissan or any others. I do and have always believed that GM has room for improvement in overall quality, especially the interior contents.
Hey funny you should mention ole Rodney. We actually picked that guy up a few times in the ambulance. He was lurking around in Claremont and another time in Pomona. I believe he overdosed one day and not sure what happened the other time, fighting with the cops or something. He put up quite the little struggle though with us in back of unit. Certainly wasn't trying to "get along" lol.
Not to mention this thing with the police chief now. This thing gets any bigger and there could be trouble brewin, know what I mean. After all it's been what, 10 years since last riot or something. The city of angels is due for their 10 year anniversary. Were also way overdue for a good earthquake.
Was listening to news and they were saying that crime has been skyrocketing here last few years. My question to you is, with all the murders, suicides, and traffic accidents skyrocketing, isn't it amazing how we have any people left in this town at all lol. Gotta get out before someone takes ya out.
Check out www.lear.com They make most of the interior plastic, seats, etc..FOR MOST cars and trucks assembled in North America..... GM, Toy, Ford, BMW and on and on! Check out their web site ,,,you will be suprised !
This came from a GM owner when one anti-toyota poster mentioned engine sludge. you can find it in the GM knock thread.
"Keep up the good work. Regarding the previous posts, I wish my knock lasted only 15 seconds. I might also have taken the extended warranty. I knock for 15-20 minutes and still hear it hot. As far as the Toyota sludge problem, all makers deny claims, initially--warranties are not giveaways. But you failed to mention that Toyota is making good on those engines apparently after some aggressive press coverage, Automotive News, Etc. Go to:
Perhaps the American press is more aggressive with the foreign makes--especially at war time.
But we Americans still wait for our great American car company to do the right thing. Further, this is a GM Knock Site. Stay focused. All makes have problems (some more than others) and relative internet forums. Any mention of other car maker's problems here should be specific to how the company ultimately reacted regarding the warranty. Do the research before you speak. Perhaps Toyota wanted to maintain their number 1 status. GM, however, is content to sell to a large number of apple-pie loving lemmings like me who continue to buy substandard products. GM's warranty is corporate silly-putty that's controlled by lawyers and accountants on behalf of shareholders. Integrity it seems, is selling at too high a price for GM's Executive Board. GM's reliability ratings are consistently lackluster. Yet we continue to buy. They rub that American flag in your face and tug like vultures at our patriotic purse strings. They should be ashamed.
We won't be fooled again."
Even a GM owner acknowledges that Toyota did the right thing when it came to the sludge problem.
I went to the NHTSA web site to take a look at the reported problems for the 02 Tundra vs. the 02 Rado. I found only ONE reported problem for the Tundra and a LOT for the Rado. Those of you who mentioned the expensive repairs for the Tundra do not have a leg to stand on. Here is a sample of the 02 Rado problems:
CONSUMER STATED WHILE DRIVING, THE FRONT END ON THE PASSENGER SIDE COLLAPSED TO THE GROUNG WITHOUT WARNING, THE DEALER REPLACED THE RIGHT OUTER TIE ROD END, CONSUMER STATED VEHICLE WAS HARD TO START, POSSIBLY DUE TO A DEAD BATTERY, THE ABS LIGHT ILLUMINATED, ALSO THE PASSENGER SPEAKER IN THE DOOR WAS BLOWN
WHILE APPLYING BRAKE PEDAL GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN FLOORBOARD. DEALERSHIP IS AWARE OF PROBLEM.
AFTER VEHICLE WAS PARKED CAONSUME R SAW A LIGHT IN DASHBOARD. THEN, VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE . PLEASE PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION.
ONGOING TICKING NOISE IN 5.3L V8 ENGINE WHILE RUNNING. DEALER NOTIFIED. FEEL FREE TO PROFVIDE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION
VEHICLE STALLED AT 70 MPH, VEHICLE IS AT DEALERSHIP AT THIS TIME
WITH CRUISE/SPEED CONTROL SET/ON TRANSMISSION REPEATEDLY DOWNSHIFTS BELOW 4TH. AND 3RD. GEARS INTO 2ND. AND 1ST. GEARS CAUSING ERRATIC ACCELERATION, EXCESSIVE VIBRATION AND FATALLY HIGH ENGINE R.P.M. REVVING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS.
VEHICLE WAS INVOLVED IN A FRONTAL COLLISION AT 25MPH. UPON IMPACT, AIRBAGS DID NOT DEPLOY
VEHICLE WAS INVOLVED IN A FRONTAL COLLISION AT 40-45MPH. UPON IMPACT AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY. DEALER HAS BEEN CONTACTED. PLEASE PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
GEARSHIFT LINKAGE LOOSENED PREVENTING TRANSMISSION TO GO INTO PARK
ALLISON TRANSMISSION PROBLEM: WHILE IN OVERDRIVE WITH A TOWING LOAD GOING UPHILL, THE TRANSMISSION WILL DOWNSHIFT IN OR OUT OF CRUISE CONTROL, CAUSING THE ENGINE TO INCREASE SPEED UP TO THE DANGER ZONE OF 3300RPM . THE VEHICLE WAS CHECKED BY THE LISTED DEALER, WHOM NOTED THAT GENERAL MOTORS HAS NO CORRECTION AVAILABLE FOR THE DOWNSHIFTING AND ENGINE RACING IN OVERDRIVE. THIS COMPLAINT IS TO REGISTER THIS OBSERVATION WITH MY VEHICLE
WHILE DRIVING 30-35 MPH FRONT END ON PASSENGER'S SIDE COLLAPSED TO GROUND WITHOUT WARNING
STANDARD STEEL WHEEL ON VEHICLE HOLDS WATER, AND WHEN THAT WATER FREEZES WHEELS GO OUT OF BALANCE.
And here is the only complaint on the 02 Tundra:
WHILE DRIVING STATE SPEED LIMIT HEARD A KNOCKING ON FRONT END OF VEHICLE WHILE APPLYING BRAKES.
It seems that the 02 Rado has way more problems than the 02 Tundra. funny how Toyota fixes the problems on their trucks when a new model year comes along, while Chevy throws the same heap at the loyal lemings.
Comments
need no EXPENSIVE valve adjustments,
shims or Rubber Band replacements like
those FLAWLESS Toy V-8s (with their
cold start knock).............Geo
BTW: My Rado WORKED HARD this winter
Snowplowing, haulin', Gee its almost
time to pull out my Big wellcraft and
Coachman trailer and do some towing !
Lets see a Toy pull those big monsters !
Sonjaab has continually posted to these Toyota threads only to knock Toyota. At least the other non Toy owners posts are constructive for most part. I'm yet to read anything from Sonjaab that is factual or constructive to a thread. Maybe he's a disgruntled owner, who knows.
This poster further shows their intelligence by bashing the Tundra, yet they own a Knockerado themselves. I'll take a Tundra's ocassional cold knock over GMs anyday. BTW Sonjaab, the Tundra was never designed to pull the monsters as you describe. It has it's limits as all things do, and is a 1/2 ton truck at best.
Tell me more about the WARM KNOCK ,please.
kip
KG, you said that Quad was right. Back up your statement. Give me details. I think it is funny that so-called Chev owners seem to have copies of Tundra owner and service manuals available.
I have never had a compulsion to buy a Chev Lemonado owners or service manual, and therefore cannot knowledgeably comment on them. What is Flappy and your's secret?
Hey, KG, what were you saying about teaching a pig to sing?
Personally, I think he is a victim of engine knock. He said he has a friend with the same problem. His friend is retired, and has said he is not going to take the "everything is peachy" line from GM. They are leaving their poor buyers out to swing in the breeze.
I told him about the GM piston slap site, and he said he is going to let GM have it. Maybe a class action lawsuit?
I take it by the change of direction that this Tundra owner has taken, he admits the Toyota V8 has scheduled/expensive valve adjustments?
Wouldn't a simple admission of being wrong, instead of trying to change the subject, lend credibility?
I am curious to see an offering by Toyota in the 3/4 ton class, especially after seeing what they offered in the half ton.
These are a few excerpts from the GM engine knock thread regarding knocking under warm engine conditions :
1)"My 2001 Silverado has a pronounced engine knock after warm up and only under load."
2)"Customer states the truck has a cold engine tap on start up and occasionally when warm."
3)"sounds like a lot of us are getting this "tapping" noise when our engines are idling "
4)"Have any of you noticed the knocking noise (piston slap or whatever) when the engine was still warm? I notice the noise on cold starts almost regularly, and the same noise is present as in today I went to a store and came back out approx. 1/2 hour later, hit the remote start, and again heard the noise. Temp gauge read about 190 or so, outside temp. around 25-30 degrees"
5) 5.3 liter hot start engine knock by sludge2 Dec 12, 2001 (01:13 pm) " I own a 2000 suburban with a 5.3 liter engine. when I restart a hot engine I somtimes here a pop knock noise. The problem is that it doesent happen all the time. the dealer herd the knock once , and said it is normal."
So these are just few examples of non cold knock in GMs. In addition, I have a friend who is a mechanic I used to work with in an engine shop. He currently works at Chevy dealer down street and heres a summary of what he's told me ...
Yes he has seen plenty GM trucks with knock under ALL conditions the last few years, more so of the cold start type. The last few months he said they've received a number of knocks on warm start up as well as quite a few knocking under a load. Yes warm knock does exist.
Furthermore, I have 2 neighbors, one with 01 Sierra, other with 99 Rado. Both have had what they call slap/knock on cold start, driving around town, and the Sierra owner says he gets it cruising at highway speeds but very intermittently.
Heres what kills me though. An above poster from the GM knock thread asked "Have any of you noticed the knocking noise (piston slap or whatever) when the engine was still warm? "
Obyone asks us to explain the warm knock to him in this Toyota thread, yet here is Oby's response to the above question in GM engine knock ...
From what I understand by obyone Dec 09, 2001 (04:49 pm) " ... the problem lies with "some do it and some don't". If you have one that does, it becomes a problem. ... "
Lol, so Oby since you seem to acknowledge this warm knock, instead of asking me or anyone else in this thread to explain warm GM knock to you, maybe we should be asking you to explain it to us.
I'm saying cold knock seems more often and severe in GM vs. the Tundra. Give the Tundra's on the road a few more years to mature and we'll see where we stand then. I have never stated one way or another that cold/warm knock is detrimental/harmful to an engine. I remember seeing a post about knock where the guy says his engine knocked for something like 190,000 miles and still ran fine.
You made a comment,
"Funny thing is though, Sonjaab's Rado and other GMs have been noted for not only prolonged cold knock, but warm continuous knocking, and we're not talking about break in period either."
As a person who owns neither a Tundra or a Silverado, I find it interesting that you make a comment regarding something you have no first hand experience. While I agree that a warm or even a cold knock might be a problem, I don't comment on it cause I have no first hand experience with it nor do I know the cause, the fix, or anything else regarding knocks for that matter.
Your post previous indicates that you have the ability to copy and paste. Is there anything else you'd like to share on a 3/4 ton Toyota topic? This is not a flame, rather again, I'm curious as to why your comments regarding Sonjaab and even this one which to me appears to be a personal attack...
"This poster further shows their intelligence by bashing the Tundra, yet they own a Knockerado themselves."
I realize that you got trapped in a corner there, but it's no reason to go after credibility issue. There's a lot of "I read in other forums" info here.
REMEMBER I ALSO OWNED 2 TOYOYA pickups !
Can I refresh anyones memory about the
problems I HAD with them !
BOTH bought brand new too !......geo
BTW: I am 46 yo and have had MANY cars
and trucks ! Real world experience here !
Sorry all its not my first time at the
barn dance............
www.tundrasolutions.com
ALL the FACTS there........
REAL TOY owners over there to
tell ya the truth. And not a
Chevy boy to be found......
DO YOU own a toyota ?
GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE NOW !
Are they driven by many different
drivers ? I suppose they are driven
hard in the desert in Mexico. I have
been there and the roads aint that
great. ANY fleet vehicle driven
under those conditions would turn any
car or truck into a problematic one ?
ANYWAYS If the toys are so tuff and
rugged how come the Govt. don't buy em ?
Did the host do it ?
REMEMBER I ALSO HAVE DRIVEN CHEVYS 6 YEARS AT WORK. Can I refresh anyones memory about the
problems I HAD with them ! ALL bought brand new too !......pluto
BTW: I've had MANY cars and trucks ! Real world experience here ! Sorry all its not my first time at the barn dance............
Take a trip over to
http://agmlemon.freeservers.com/
http://www.gmclemon.com/
ALL the FACTS there........
REAL CHEVY owners over there to
tell ya the truth. And not a Toy boy to be found......
GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE NOW !
I think if you compare http://agmlemon.freeservers.com/
to
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/index.php
you'll find GMC much more problematic than the Toyota.
" Yeah, I'm curious too Please describe this warm knock. We are talking knock right? Oh and please none of this forged piston stuff, ok? Thanks. "
Now to me this seems like someone who is making a mockary of the whole idea that warm knock exists. KG also asked about warm knock, im not sure if he actually didn't believe it happened or was being a little sarcastic. You seemed a little sarcastic in your post. If you weren't then my appologies.
As far as my own personal experience with knocking engines ... I started rebuiling engines in high school. Spent 3 years in shop there, moved on to college where I was team leader/lead mechanic for 2 years in engine rebuilding class, and then moved on to a private shop where I spent 3 years in engine overhaul/related work.
I've heard engines of all types ping/knock/slap etc. The engines that these seemed to be more common in were GMs 4.3, 4.8, 5.3s, and to a lesser degree some of the 3.0s in Olds./Pontiac and even a few 350s. Does that mean any of these engines were per-se junk ?? not at all. Maybe these engines were used differently/harsher according to the vehicles they were in. We had Ford's that knocked, although not quite as many, and for most part, many of the imports especially Toyota/Nissan were virtually knock free.
So to be honest, that's as PERSONAL to GMs knocking enignes as I wanna be. I've got 3 Gms sitting out front (Rado/Bonneville/Cutlass), none of them have ever knocked. Some of my older GMs have never had engine problems as well. So I'm certainly not a import die hard. I have however formed the opinion from my experience that I'm going to get better reliability and to some extent quality from an import. Toyota engines always impressed me and very few cars on road boast more original miles than Toyota.
As far as attacking Sonjaab. I will say that it seems the last few posts from him have just been short attacks on Tundra. At least yourself and other non Tundra owners can be somewhat constructive in posts. Looking over the last few posts from Sonjaab, I don't see anything thats beneficial to this forum.
No I don't have a solution to the cause of GMs knock. We've had success in shop by using lower/higher octane fuels, adjusting timing, switching to syn. motor oils, sometimes even changing spark plugs. There has never seemed to be one definite cause, differnet things worked on different engines. I've been away from the shop a few years so I don't know if any current theories exist.
rugged how come the Govt. don't buy em ?"
Please don't tell me the government always gives its contracts to the BEST bidders.
I'm not sure who's been telling you the Tundra is flawless, but I would hope nobody actually believes that. Maybe some of the posters in here currently have ones that are flawless, but the truck as a whole has noted problems as all trucks do. Yes I've been to Tundra Solutions and find the folks to be brutally honest about the likes/dislikes of truck.
Believe me, I'm not buying the truck based on the thoughts of a few posters here in Edmund's lol. Truck has been noted to have rotor probs. and cold knock. Compared to problems of the other trucks, I find these very minor. The truck is still relatively new and as the years go on, we'll see just what the Tundra is actually made of. I look forward to a 3/4 ton soon, it only makes the competition come up with better stuff, which is in best interest of us all.
Just the facts.
And yes my Rado has a minor cold start
knock. Had dealer print it up too.
But living here in Frozen NY most of
my vehicles have cold start knock when
cold. Even my toyotas I had.......
As far as warm engine knock. Which I
thought was a lifter noise. Was only
fuel pulsing thru the fuel rails and
injectors. Mechanic at GM dealer whipped
out his stethoscope and let me check
myself ! By Golly he was right !
I posted this before in the gm knock thread
too..............Geo
kip
Never try to teach a pig to sing.It makes you look silly ,and it annoys the pig.
You won't see me giving him (you know who) anymore singing lessons because he has demonstrated repeatedly that he lacks the ability to reason.He will not respond to questions.His only reason for posting here is to be rude and belligerant.He's unaware of what HE has and claims to have all the answers about everyones business.I wouldn't be surprised to see him on my front porch telling me to go to HIS church (Tundra saves ?) or suffer the consiquences.
kip
laemt
I'm glad you cleared that up.
According to one of the mini truck posures all GM's are junk. Funny thing is he is the one driving a mini with a one star side impact rating that Toyota could care less about. Maybe it's your good fortune to be driving a GM junk instead of that deathtrap you call a truck.
ObywannaTundra and KG - I wasn't trying to teach you guys to sing, I just wish that you would stop squeeling. I'm glad that I cleared that up!
Two posters have posted the info you requested about I-force valve adjustments after you denied your owner's manual contained this info.
Do you still deny the expensive scheduled maintenance of the Toyota engine?
Will you try to change the subject again?
Or can you just admit you made a simple mistake?
urkillingme - I've looked through the scheduled maintenance section of my OM and don't remember seeing a blurb about adjusting the valves. But if they don't have hydraulic lifters, eventually they will need adjustment. No contention there. Big $$
I believe Mr. Quadrunner when he says he's seen the manual, I also believe my Toyota tech acquaintance. A simple call to a service dept will resolve it either way.
The fact a Toyota requires more scheduled maintenance may mean as much to someone as a hearsay comment that someone's brother's friend's uncle's 3rd cousin has had a problem with their GM/Ford.
You do sound like one of the more level headed Toyota owners, I thank you for that.
The posted info will go unacknowledged as always.
Expensive maintenance? Yew must be wuna them lyin' chevy boys!
"Will you try to change the subject again?Or can you just admit you made a simple mistake?"
In the 5 months I've been reading/posting here ,there's been only ONE POSTER who's never wrong and you just volenteered to be on his list.
kip
TWOWHEELER First let me say most of us DO get along.I have nothing against Tundra.I just dont like being called stupid for not selling my Isuzu NPR or Ford 600 and delivering tons of steel a day with a fleet of Tundras.
RE valve adjustment; I drove my Tacoma 106K mi without adjusting the valves but did replace the timing belt.Tundra does require more maintenance than Chev/Ford but it's nothing like the solid lifter 289 in my wife's old Mustang.
kip
YOU WERE DUPED! The statement the flaprunner claims was in the Tundra owners manual does not exist. How do I know? - I own a Tundra. (And therefore have an owner's manual). If you don't believe me - ask Flappy. (or consult your Tundra owner's manuals.
It is a shame that Quad put out a troll and snagged you two. He should be ashamed (NAAAAAH!!). Maybe in 5 months or so UR and KG will realize this. We can all hope.
KG - If your power is so awesome, why do you want to put on a supercharger?
I did not ever call you stupid. I did imply that you would not ever learn how to sing, and that I was not trying to train you. I hope you didn't take this as an insult. I know that it isn't your fault that you got stuck with a GM lemon.
UR- I don't get this angry binge you are on. I think it is amusing. Since the angry thing isn't working - can you try another troll? This is getting boring!
Now - can we talk trucks?
Nobody here has read a reply to this fact except to be belittled.
I will readily admit that the domestics may need more annoyance visits to the dealership (even though I haven't needed to)than Toyota. It's clear that Toyota's scheduled maintenance is much more costly. I do believe this is a subject directly related to trucks.
Will someone please explain the "put out a troll" or "can you try another troll" comments. I'm new to this obvious berating lingo. Thank you in advance.
Thank you.
"Cheap interior materials, sketchy build quality."
"After examining all 24 updates, we had well over three pages of problems. Even more striking was our realization that in two years, the Sierra had 20 warranty repairs. That's a new record for the long-term program, doubling our '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee's nine."
"As the months wore on, though, some of the truck's supporters grew rather embittered after repeated trips to the dealership for repairs. We suspect that many of the GMC's problems could have been prevented through the use of higher quality parts and stricter assembly protocol. The "Professional Grade" feeling begins to peter out after the steering column has been clunking and rattling for a year or so..."
"didn't bode well for long-term, trouble-free ownership."
"These aren't Toyota Tundras. They'll likely require more than just regular maintenance. Call it true truck character. Call it General Motors' cost-cutting. Either way, it's going to come out of your wallet after the warranty is over."
"Lousy build quality, worrisome reliability outlook, hyperactive ABS, rough ride with Z71 suspension..."
"Then, hours after I got home after spending 300 miles behind the wheel on a variety of paved and dirt surfaces, I discovered fluid leaking onto my driveway from the vicinity of the transfer case. The next day, I thought the transmission was back to its clunky shifting ways, especially when selecting reverse and when up- or downshifting into second. And there's a daytime running light burned out. The warranty ran out 800 miles ago.... So much for getting through a month with nothing going wrong with our truck...underneath the glossy black sheet metal, we knew that all was not right."
"If "solid build quality" or "reliability" is among your criteria, however, this GMC may disappoint you."
--------------------------------------------------
Yeah, it sounds like Chevy definitely has an edge over Toyota when it comes to repairs and maintenance costs! **SNORT!**
YIKES!!!
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38921
Toyota makes changes in their engine design and yet blames the Toyota owner for engine sludge. Almost like knocking and forged pistons wouldn't you say?
Obyone, despite your nonsense, you provide us with the ultimate example of why GMCs should be avoided!!!
The one that got me however, was a guy who turned car off and was attempting to exit vehicle, when the electrical seat malfunctioned and promptly pinned him to the steering wheel. He states he was unable to free himself for a few moments and complained of sore ribs the next 2 days lmao. These aren't necessarily funny because they were Chevy stories, would have been funny with Ford, Nissan or any others. I do and have always believed that GM has room for improvement in overall quality, especially the interior contents.
Not to mention this thing with the police chief now. This thing gets any bigger and there could be trouble brewin, know what I mean. After all it's been what, 10 years since last riot or something. The city of angels is due for their 10 year anniversary. Were also way overdue for a good earthquake.
Was listening to news and they were saying that crime has been skyrocketing here last few years. My question to you is, with all the murders, suicides, and traffic accidents skyrocketing, isn't it amazing how we have any people left in this town at all lol. Gotta get out before someone takes ya out.
They make most of the interior
plastic, seats, etc..FOR MOST
cars and trucks assembled in
North America.....
GM, Toy, Ford, BMW and on and on!
Check out their web site ,,,you
will be suprised !
???
"Keep up the good work. Regarding the previous posts, I wish my knock lasted only 15 seconds. I might also have taken the extended warranty. I knock for 15-20 minutes and still hear it hot. As far as the Toyota sludge problem, all makers deny claims, initially--warranties are not giveaways. But you failed to mention that Toyota is making good on those engines apparently after some aggressive press coverage, Automotive News, Etc. Go to:
http://www.9wusa.com/consumer/consumer_article.asp?storyid=4725
Perhaps the American press is more aggressive with the foreign makes--especially at war time.
But we Americans still wait for our great American car company to do the right thing. Further, this is a GM Knock Site. Stay focused. All makes have problems (some more than others) and relative internet forums. Any mention of other car maker's problems here should be specific to how the company ultimately reacted regarding the warranty. Do the research before you speak. Perhaps Toyota wanted to maintain their number 1 status. GM, however, is content to sell to a large number of apple-pie loving lemmings like me who continue to buy substandard products. GM's warranty is corporate silly-putty that's controlled by lawyers and accountants on behalf of shareholders. Integrity it seems, is selling at too high a price for GM's Executive Board. GM's reliability ratings are consistently lackluster. Yet we continue to buy. They rub that American flag in your face and tug like vultures at our patriotic purse strings. They should be ashamed.
We won't be fooled again."
Even a GM owner acknowledges that Toyota did the right thing when it came to the sludge problem.
CONSUMER STATED WHILE DRIVING, THE FRONT END ON THE PASSENGER SIDE COLLAPSED TO THE GROUNG WITHOUT WARNING, THE DEALER REPLACED THE RIGHT OUTER TIE ROD END, CONSUMER STATED VEHICLE WAS HARD TO START, POSSIBLY DUE TO A DEAD BATTERY, THE ABS LIGHT ILLUMINATED, ALSO THE PASSENGER SPEAKER IN THE DOOR WAS BLOWN
WHILE APPLYING BRAKE PEDAL GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN FLOORBOARD. DEALERSHIP IS AWARE OF PROBLEM.
AFTER VEHICLE WAS PARKED CAONSUME R SAW A LIGHT IN DASHBOARD. THEN, VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE . PLEASE PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION.
ONGOING TICKING NOISE IN 5.3L V8 ENGINE WHILE RUNNING. DEALER NOTIFIED. FEEL FREE TO PROFVIDE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION
VEHICLE STALLED AT 70 MPH, VEHICLE IS AT DEALERSHIP AT THIS TIME
WITH CRUISE/SPEED CONTROL SET/ON TRANSMISSION REPEATEDLY DOWNSHIFTS BELOW 4TH. AND 3RD. GEARS INTO 2ND. AND 1ST. GEARS CAUSING ERRATIC ACCELERATION, EXCESSIVE VIBRATION AND FATALLY HIGH ENGINE R.P.M. REVVING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS.
VEHICLE WAS INVOLVED IN A FRONTAL COLLISION AT 25MPH. UPON IMPACT, AIRBAGS DID NOT DEPLOY
VEHICLE WAS INVOLVED IN A FRONTAL COLLISION AT 40-45MPH. UPON IMPACT AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY. DEALER HAS BEEN CONTACTED. PLEASE PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
GEARSHIFT LINKAGE LOOSENED PREVENTING TRANSMISSION TO GO INTO PARK
ALLISON TRANSMISSION PROBLEM: WHILE IN OVERDRIVE WITH A TOWING LOAD GOING UPHILL, THE TRANSMISSION WILL DOWNSHIFT IN OR OUT OF CRUISE CONTROL, CAUSING THE ENGINE TO INCREASE SPEED UP TO THE DANGER ZONE OF 3300RPM . THE VEHICLE WAS CHECKED BY THE LISTED DEALER, WHOM NOTED THAT GENERAL MOTORS HAS NO CORRECTION AVAILABLE FOR THE DOWNSHIFTING AND ENGINE RACING IN OVERDRIVE. THIS COMPLAINT IS TO REGISTER THIS OBSERVATION WITH MY VEHICLE
WHILE DRIVING 30-35 MPH FRONT END ON PASSENGER'S SIDE COLLAPSED TO GROUND WITHOUT WARNING
STANDARD STEEL WHEEL ON VEHICLE HOLDS WATER, AND WHEN THAT WATER FREEZES WHEELS GO OUT OF BALANCE.
And here is the only complaint on the 02 Tundra:
WHILE DRIVING STATE SPEED LIMIT HEARD A KNOCKING ON FRONT END OF VEHICLE WHILE APPLYING BRAKES.
It seems that the 02 Rado has way more problems than the 02 Tundra. funny how Toyota fixes the problems on their trucks when a new model year comes along, while Chevy throws the same heap at the loyal lemings.