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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    I <LSD> was wondering <LSD> if that was him... LSD.

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    fedlawman & kominsky... Ya know what they say, everyone has a doppleganger somewhere in the world? Luckily mine appears capable of trenchant automotive commentary?
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    do you guys by any chance know how much im supposed to pay for an 05 X5 3.0, black on beige, premium, auto, xenon, coldweather?


     one more thing, is the pastel green interior available for USspec x5?


    ive been checking the x5 forums but no answers so far...
  • Has anyone here purchased a 3.6 CTS lately? I am looking, and have been for quite some time now, the perfect midsize car. The CTS just entered the equation and it has my interest after reading the Road and Track comparison. I obviously am also looking at the G35 (too small for me I think), the TL (really like it and it is leading at this time, but the exterior bores me), and the S60 2.5t (nice car, good looks, but a bit small i think).


    I don't want to pay the $38k or so that I configured it for and I know that there are deals out there on GM vehicles. I read somewhere that somebody got $7,500 or so in rebates & incentives.


    Also, what do y'all think about that comparison of the TL and the CTS? I know the FWD vs. RWD will be the major factor for some, but if you can try to rule that out please do.


  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,637
    If you disregard RWD/FWD, the Acura TL wins on all fronts..


    Of course, that is just my


    The big one.. resale.. If you think you will sell that car anytime within 5 years, you will be many thousands ahead with the Acura..


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Have you driven the CTS and TL back to back?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,095
    But that's just on the aesthetic level. Have you checked out the interior of a CTS? Does the C stand for Chevy Cavalier??? And the exterior, while differnt, is just plain overdone. IMHO, of course. I haven't driven the CTS, which is probably its saving grace, but even if it "outdrives" the TL (which I find to be very handome in and out), I could not look at, nor sit in, the CTS every day and be happy...


    Drive 'em both, figure out your priorities and buy. Whichever you buy is the best car.



    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • gordonwdgordonwd Posts: 337
    I always say "what part of your car do you see the most of?" Well, it's the interior -- not the exterior styling, and that has always been very important to me. That's one reason why my last two cars have been a '98 A4 and a '04 325i: both look and feel very nice from the driver's seat.


    That is also one thing that turned me off when I test-drove a Saab 9-3 before deciding on the 325. The instrument panel of the Saab was very complex-looking -- dozens of buttons -- and with the display for the radio and that other display up under the windshield, it definitely didn't do it for me. I really like the external styling, and the car drove & performed well, but I couldn't see myself enjoying the view from the business seat!
  • I have driven the TL, but not the CTS. Those really are the only 2 I can think of. The G is too small, 325 is too small, the A4 is too small, the 9-3 has gotten terrible reviews.


    It appears that the CTS is just as big as the TL. I understand that the fit and finish is not as good in the CTS. I like the exterior styling of the CTS. One problem is that the Acura dealer is 60 miles away and the Cadillac dealer is 2 miles away. That is a big deal to me. I also am feeling pretty patriotic these days and am leaning to the CTS, a car i would of never looked at a year ago.


    It really is tough. On paper the Acura wins and on the interior the Acura wins. I prefer the Caddy exterior to the TL exterior.


    The Acura is cheaper on MSRP as well, but I am wondering if the street price of the CTS is probably much less than the MSRP. It has to be. So, a $38k CTS probably costs you $32k or so is what I am thinking. Does anyone here know?


    I am looking to lease, not buy so that changes things a little bit.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,637
    1) If you like the CTS exterior, that counts for something..


    2) 2 miles vs. 60 miles to the dealer is another real benefit..


    3) The lease deals on TLs right now are just standard rates.. no manufacturer support.. So, maybe not that great.


    4) Not sure of the lease deals on the CTS, but something tells me, that the price difference will pretty much disappear if you are leasing.. Maybe, even lower on the CTS.





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  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,095
    Another thought, Billy. If winter driving is a consideration for you, then FWD vs. RWD may take on additional importance. Theoretically, FWD is better in the snow. HOWEVER, the non-navi TL is equipped with Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires which, IMO, are terrible in the snow! Too bad I found this out after buying my TL, which other than the tires is a great car: smooth, quiet, powerful and handsome inside and out.


    I've not been stranded (we're getting another 8-10" on top of the 30" of snow we got in Boston this weekend!) nor spun, but I think that is a combination of my snow driving experience and the TLs traction electronics (TC, VSA, ABS). I'm somewhat upset with these tires (I think they flatspot, also).

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I had a chance to drive the TL and CTS back to back on a track, and in that environment, the CTS did much better. And, you can get a LOT off the MSRP. I recall seeing ads in the paper offering 6K off to begin with.


    Now, as a daily driver, that's not the #1 criteria, but i'm not interested in a car that doesn't make me smile. That's just my own personal preference. OTOH this is a sport sedan topic.
  • I drove the CTS today for the first time. Love the exterior, the trunk, the size, the seats and the drive characteristics. Cannot stand the interior. I cannot believe it is on the inside of a $43k car that I looked at. I thought that the dimmer switch next to the sunroof opener was going to fall off when I touched it. The doors are plastic, the dash is plastic, the console is plastic, the knobs are plastic, the middle console is plastic. For as much as I love the exterior I can't believe the inside is that bad. I am really dissapointed. I really thought that the reviews were exaggerating how bad it is. I am sorry to those CTS owners that I am offending but I truly am surprised and disappointed.


    I am the only that was that shocked by the interior. How on earth did the CTS beat the 530, A6, Jag, E320 in the Road and Track comparison of the 6 cylinders?
  • darrenwdarrenw Posts: 23
    I do not own any of these vehicle, but IMO 3.xL CTS is not likely to be my choice of vehicles. TL wins the look, interior, power, reliability , comfort, ... well almost everything. If only TL comes with RWD :( (but it handles pretty well too -imo)


    The G otoh has better handling (imo based on its RWD setup) but it comes with tougher ride. Well, it depends on your priorities thou. But if you choose a RWDer, dont forget to get winter tires (if you live in snow area). Believe me you wont regret it.


    Good luck.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    The only incentives on the CTS is $1500 GM loyalty. The biggest discount we've given is $5,000 off, and that was a demo w/ 4,000 miles on it. GM has left the incentives off the CTS. Resale has been excellent.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,095
    RE: The interior. I had the same reaction when I first sat in a CTS at the New England auto show a few years back. I really felt like I was in a $20k Chevy, not a (gasp) $40k Caddy!


    As I said earlier, the actual driving is probably (since I haven't driven one) the CTS saving grace. The exterior, while it has grown on me and isn't Aztek-ugly, still is too overdone for my tastes.

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • tedescm1tedescm1 Posts: 309
    How long does it take to settle a lemon law case?


  • Have you sat in the G35 back to back with the TL? If you do, I don't see how you could come to the conclusion the G35 is small but the TL is not. They are virtually identical, except I hit my head in the rear of the TL and not the G. IMO with the updated '05 G35 interior, you should definitely test drive it with your choices. It is fun to test or own any of the cars in this class. So Enjoy!
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I think a G25 priced about $2500 less than the G35 would be a good idea. Get more younger buyers in the door who will later upgrade to more expensive Infinitis.


    All the other import luxury brands offer or will offer a base version offering about 200 hp. I see no reason why Infiniti should not.


    Audi: A4 1.8

    BMW: 325i

    Mercedes: C240

    Lexus: IS250 (coming soon)

    Acura: TSX


    They could use the V6 VQ25DE used in the Japanese Fuga (U.S. M) 250GT, making 210hp at 6000rpm, and 197 torque at 4400rpm.


    Obviously, it won't feel as powerful as the G35, but it will have a lighter steering feel, better balance, and be more gas efficient as well.


    It'll probably do 0-60 in about 7.0 seconds with auto trans, which won't be that bad.
  • I did sit in the G35 and the TL back to back. Maybe I mistyped, but I think that the headroom in the TL is probably an inch or so more than the G35. I don't necessarily think that the interior is that much different. I am only 6'1" but I do prefer the upright position and my head/hair was rubbing on the roof of the G35, but not on the roof of the TL or the S60 for that matter. They are all fun you are right. I have paralysis by analysis. Done too much research. I should just not look at any stats and get the one that makes me feel good I guess.
  • try real snow tires 4 of them narrow is better of course keeping same overall diameter and fitting over brake package use smaller wheel minus 1 sizing i cant believe people dont use snow tires all season are stated as for OCCASSIONAL LIGHT snow by tire specialist such as tire rack a set of snows on different wheels are the way to go and stop better PERIOD
  • gordonwdgordonwd Posts: 337
    I agree that full snows are the ultimate solution, but Tirerack is in business to sell tires and would like to convince you that your all-seasons will not do the job. So far this year, my area (near Detroit) has had much more snow than in the previous 5 or 6 years, and I have been doing just fine in my 325i (RWD) with all-seasons. And that's with my local govt. having a budget problem so that it takes them several days to get around to plowing my subdivision's streets. The traction and stability controls help a lot, but in general I am very pleased with the way this car gets through the snow. Not quite as good as my previous A4 Quattro of course, but certainly adequate for this area.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,637
    Good point.. What some people, who are not from the midwest don't realize.. is the topography changes dramatically, once you get north of I-70 (basically an east-west line that goes through Indianapolis and Columbus).


    South of that line, the topography is very hilly, and even though this area gets less snow, it is much more difficult to navigate slick areas.. North of that line, most of the area is flat as a billiard table.. and, unless the snow is drifting, it really isn't that hard to navigate..


    There are lots of exceptions, but I hope this helps explain why people in Detroit or Chicago might not need snows, but people in Cincinnati might require them.





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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I grew up (and learned to drive) in Oakland County (just north of Detroit), and lived in Chicago for 13 years after a 5 year stint in SoCal, and I would have to say that I don't think I would opt for winter tires if my car already had All-Season rubber on it if I lived in the Mid-West. The issue gets a little murkier if the car has summer tires, for me, I'd get the snows.


    I've spent the last dozen years on the east coast, and given the hilly nature of the local topology, winter tires become even more important. I survived with All-Season rubber in the NYC metro area, however, there were a number of days where I needed to be on the roads, and those tires made for a serious white knuckle trip. The winter tires I'm currently running have made such a dramatic transformation in the drivability of my car that I doubt seriously if I'll ever not opt for winter tires again.


    Best Regards,

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,095
    Greetings from the land of the newest dynasty, New England!


    Ultimately, you are correct. However, as a life-long New Englander and skier (Vermont primarily, but now that I'm in Boston, Maine and New Hampster too), I've always done just fine with front-wheel drive, all-season tires and a bit of winter driving common sense. This is one reason I've stuck with FWD and never felt the need for AWD. That's why I'm so disappointed with the Bridgestones' performance in the snow, I may need to buy snow tires! If I knew I was going to need snows, I may have gone RWD.


    The TCS/VSA & ABS have kept me going in the desired direction, so I'm not going to spring for snows (or better rated in the snow all seasons) yet. See how I do the rest of this winter.

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • .02 from the Big Apple.

    I was actually out in Columbus, Oh. just after Christmas and had no problems with the RS-A's even in water on top of ice (G35X).

    Back here in NYC, I had no real problems in our recent "blizzard". The only time I was wishing for winter tires was when I was trying to park, or leave my parking space. I just turned on Snow Mode and turned off the VDC. A lot of rocking back and forth was required.

      I realize that all-season tires are at best a compromise. The AWD is best for getting going and helps in turns, but AWD doesn't do anything for stopping in the snow.

      I wish that the Infiniti wheels were not so expensive, as I would have a dedicated set of winter tires in the original size. I'd prefer Pirelli Sotto Zero or Dunlops, as I feel that they would last longer than Blizzaks. Too bad Nokkia or Gislaved don't make winter tires in this size.
  • Has anyone compared the CTS to the Lincoln LS or the Pontiac GXP? Comments.........
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,075
    I was actually just mentioning this to my wife last night - that i need to go drive the CTS and LS. However, I'd be looking at used since both of these depreciate HARSHLY. I've seen '03s and '04s with low miles of both cars for ~$25k to ~$28k (and that's LIST price).

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    A reporter would like to interview someone who recently bought a large sedan such as a Mercedes E-Class, Lexus LS 430, Mercury Crown Victoria or any large Cadillac or Lincoln.


    Please send your daytime contact info to by Friday, February 11, 2005.
  • hoxhox Posts: 24
    I'm in the market for a new vehicle and am comparing these 3 vehicles, because of their power and fun, factor. It seems the TL gets the best gas mileage, while the G35 has an All wheel drive option (not with a stick ) and the Subaru has AWD with a stick. All have tons of power and are in the $30-$33k range. I'd love to hear from people who have these vehicles!
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