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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Who am I to argue with a host ;)

    However, just because a car is cheaper, does not make it inferior. In fact, the TL is probably superior in most respects to any American car, regardless of price. I have test driven the RL and thought the luxury of the TL was it's equal, and roominess was the same. :P
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The point I was trying to make and evidently did not is just what you said - because a car is cheaper does not make it inferior. And there is nothing about the term "entry-level" that implies inferior in my estimation.

    But the reality is that there is a more expensive class of vehicles. That fact does not mean this class is inferior.

    Okay? :-)
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
  • tootsie1tootsie1 Posts: 27
    If the 3 series is the toyota echo of BMW then what does that make the Mini?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The Mini is to BMW what Saab is to GM. While the Mini has won many awards and people who drive the car like it, it is not a BMW by heritage, just like a Saab is not a GM by heritage.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    my god this is turning into an SAT exam. Dog is to cat as...
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,056
    It's definitely a "bleachers & popcorn" series of exchanges.

    I learn a lot from some of the boards -- others are mostly for entertainment.
  • gordonwdgordonwd Posts: 337
    "Entry level" is really a term made up by marketers, who really would like to see you "move up" to their next higher and higher (read "more expensive) models the next time you buy. It really does not cost all that much more to manufacture say a 5-series over a 3-series, but since the price tag on the 5-series can be a lot higher, there is a lot more profit in it for the company. That's also why the car companies are in love with selling $50K SUVs -- that's where most of their profits come from.

    But keep in mind that, for many of us, one person's "entry level" car is another person's "ideal" car. I am quite happy with my 325i and am also still living in the "starter home" that we bought 23 years ago! ;)
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    "Entry level" as a marketing ploy, yeah, never thought of it that way before. But you are correct, I am sure. However, I can afford a much more expensive car, but as soon as I saw, and test drove, the TL, I was hooked. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Entry level is a market segment. If manufacturers didn't make entry level sedans, there would be two choices: spartan or luxury. You'd be able to get a car for $10,000 or $50,000 but not for any price in-between.
  • webby1webby1 Posts: 209
    So where does the 1 series fit in ?
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    That would suck :cry:
  • jsamsonjsamson Posts: 23
    "entry level" or "near luxury".... i think i prefer "entry level", i do understand what youre saying frisco that these so-called "entry level" cars seem to be better than their more expensive siblings, i think that may be due to the fact its hard to overlook the value these 30k cars offer vs. the 50k with slightly more hp and more standard features. If i had an extra 20k or so to waste , id probably trade up to the m45.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I got the extra cash to spend, but I still believe the TL is a much better value than the RL. And my wife chose the cheaper, but suprior can IMHO :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The RL is a superior car given form vs function and leaving price out of the equation. However, only you can decide if the extra features/functions are worth the price.

    Sort of like saying the new E90 is a better car than the new and upcoming M5 because it's cheaper and more tossable.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    So where does the 1 series fit in ?

    It doesn't in the usa. bmw is worried there is no market for it and it will tarnish the image. if it comes here...i think it'll be viewed the same as the tsx - some kind of tweener or bridge to luxury.

    the a4 was audi's base until the a3...
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    How can you leave price out of the equation? Form and function? The TL styling is superior IMO. I have driven both cars, and the TL interior is as good as the RL in roominess and fit and finish.

    Sort of like saying the new E90 is a better car than the new and upcoming M5 because it's cheaper and more tossable.

    LOL :P
  • billyperksbillyperks Posts: 449
    The RL interior is a step above the TL -not a very high step but its a step or two.
  • jsamsonjsamson Posts: 23
    In fact, I think the TL is superior in fit and finish, looks etc. The BMW 3 series is better than the 5 and 7. And the infiinity G35 coupe is the best car they offer.

    Whoa frisco, you are truly a TL fanatic, you must have some sort of plan/manifesto when it comes to infiltrating the forums with your TL propagandha. :)

    Anyway, i think it would be safe to say that most if not all in this forum would pick a 5 series, M45, E Class, RL over their "entry level" counterparts given price was not an issue.

    The AWD RL ranked second in a 55k sport sedan comparo, beating out the 535i, E320?, GS430, etc.
    The TL is a great car without a doubt, but does look strikingly similar to TSX and even a bit like an accord, if youve ever been in the interior of an Accord EX w/ leather youd probably do a double take thinking you were in a TL, Id pick the luxury/performance/exclusivity of an RL over a TL anyday
  • ljwalters1ljwalters1 Posts: 294
    Re entry level and whatever you call the step "up," I think only BMW (maybe Audi, too) does it right. The 2nd level (5-series, RL, M) car is faster,sometimes bigger and more luxurious. Yet for some reason, only the BMW's can be had with a manual tranny. That's probably the only reason, all things being equal, I'll take my TL over an M. Otherwise, the M sounds fantastic!!!
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    LOL, but I can afford just about any car on the planet I want, and I prefer the TL from Acura over the RL, test drove both btw. It looks likes like a TSX from the from front , and nothing like an Accord, btw, look at the RL from the side and it looks remarkably like an Accord. The interior fit and finish of the TL is just as good as the RL, and the RL is really not much roomier. I guess I just like the sportier, lower end cars than the bigger brothers. :P
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,056
    There's this thing called "protesting too much."

    I'm sure, given your degree of refinement, you know the reference.

    You may want to take all those resources you could have spent and. . .
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    and I prefer the TL from Acura over the RL

    And I prefer the TSX over both. Go figure...
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    This is exactly what I mean, we all have are own preferences, you prefer the TSX, a small sporty car which is great, I prefer the TL over the RL, a smaller sportier car, this is great. :) If I wanted a big lux car, I would by the top of the line MB, not an RL. :P
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Okay, the results are in for the August Automobile Mag comparo (0 to 60 and price in parantheses).

    1) 330i 6MT (6.1s, $42k). The best driver's car and the best interior (no idrive was a plus).
    2) G35 6MT (5.8s, $34k). The best car if value considered. The best car by the numbers.
    3) CTS 3.6 6MT (6.5s, forgot price). The Americans are catching up real fast.


    BTW, R&T had separate tests of the 330i 6MT and the A4 2.0T 6MT. The praised both effusively. Their numbers were:

    330i 6MT: (6.2s)
    A4 2.0T 6MT: (6.4s)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Wow, everybody is getting such lousy 0-60 times on the e90. Hmmm...something is off with that car.
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,687
    Everybody used to say that BMW underrated their engines. Maybe they are just using a more realistic rating system to be in line with their competitors. Looking at power to weight, the new 330 is just about where it should be in acceleration.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "Everybody used to say that BMW underrated their engines."

    I wonder about that, because my e36 is rated at 189 hp, but friends who have pretty fast cars don't believe it. I drove the e90 330, and it feels fast, but it doesn't feel to me as if it has 65 more hp.

  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,758
    "I drove the e90 330, and it feels fast, but it doesn't feel to me as if it has 65 more hp."

    If you've read the car mag "hop up" articles over the years, you know it takes a significant hp jump to produce noticeable acceleration improvements. That's why I'm always amused when someone claims they can feel the difference when they install a K&N air filter. No way one can feel a 5-10hp increase in a 200+ hp engine.
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