Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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When I drive, cell phone stays in the briefcase, and no open containers since no cup holders (don't think wife will like it if I refer to her as cupholder). I just focus on joy of driving.
The above situation happens almost daily and I would never ever consider an alternative to my good old fashioned stick!
1) 330i
2) G35
3) IS350
The 330i and G35 were both 6MT.
0-60, 1/4 mile:
G35: 5.8s, 14.4s
IS350: 6.0s, 14.5s
330i: 6.2s, 14.9s
60-0:
G35: 116 ft
330i: 124 ft
IS350: 128 ft
They said that the rankings were heavily biased toward sport and performance, and would have been very different with luxury factored in more. The IS was definitely the luxury champ.
M
Slalom?
Anyway, I took it to the drag strip a number of times and ran in the "Pure Stock" category, which meant street tires and no engine mods. The tires in those days were 14" bias ply tires and very skinny by today's standards. I won my class a couple of times running 14.3 seconds @ 100mph. The one time that I tried the car with a pair of "cheater slicks" on the back, it went through at 13.9 seconds.
Anyway, I am surprised in a way that today's performance cars are not all that much quicker in the quarter mile. Of course, don't even start comparing ride & handling with those old beasts (live axles, leaf springs, drum brakes, etc.).
at least the IS will give you a bit better MPG than the old goat!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Other things to consider are warranteies. Both Audi and BMW include all service in their warranties whereas Infiniti does not. It may be something to factor into the price - Do you mind paying more up front for 3-4 years of expense free driving or not? Then of course you get into talking about reliability, and I'll let you do the research on Edmunds to come to your own conclusion about that.
Good luck.
Ummm, what do you know that the rest of us don't? Last I heard, the IS350 was definitely not going to get a manual gearbox. Yes, no?
Best Regards,
Shipo
So one would think. I too remember early on when the folks at Lexus stated that this new IS would be a direct competitor to the 3-Series (or some such language), however, everything that I've read over the last several months, including stuff from Lexus executives, seems to indicate that they are backing off of that stance. At this point I for one would be very surprised to see a new IS350 with a true three pedal stick shift (although a DSG type of tranny is I suppose not out of question).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Yes, I believe BMW is their target, but I am not convinced Lexus understands what a BMW is.
Plenty of people think they want a BMW, but don't really like the experience when they get it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Hmm, I've heard of people getting Porsches and sports cars and not liking them, but never anyone buying a BMW and not liking it unless it gave them service headaches. As far as the ride, I think most people who buy them love them.
By nature of the IS' size, I think there was more room to forsake some of the luxury formula for more sport, ESPECIALLY with the back seat sized the way it is. Actually, I think the IS could be a new class of car... a 2+2+2. What's the last 2? The back doors!
;-)
I've never heard of a BMW owner that truly dislikes their experience..... I know and have talked with a ton of BMW owners, and there are a few that might be a bit disappointed with their particular car's service record, yet they still say "But I love the car!" Then, of course, there are the others that love the car and have no problems, either. Most BMW owners love the drive so much that those that have any service headaches don't mind enough for it to affect their overall ownership experience.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'll tell you what......I have a 9+ year old E39 (BMW 528 5spd) with more than 132K miles on the clock and have been shopping for a new LPS for the past six months. I instantly ruled out another 5 series because I hate Bangle's "styling". I have tested the STS, RL, CTS, E350, A6, GS and M. Guess what: NONE of them is BETTER than my old 528. NONE of them. Yes, they have some new technology bits, but as far as ride, performance, quietness, solid construction, reliability, handling, gas mileage, roominess, whatever, they all have significant shortfalls. Yes, some are better in one area or the other, but overall, none have the full set of attributes that my older car does in my opinion. One thing is very clear: BMW builds the very best road cars on the planet. No one else is close for second place. Some may accelerate better, have fancier interiors, whatever, but BMW owns the road. Because or Mr. Bangle's styling, I may not replace my 97 E39 with another BMW, but then, I may just keep what I have. BMW owners may complain about this or that, but you won't find many complaining about how their cars drive.
I can not agree with this statement more.
Mistakes IMO Lexus has made with regard to their pursuit of BMW with regard to "Sportiness/Performance":
-AWD is a great sporting application. It offers great traction in all weather conditions. However, AWD systems cause high amounts of drive line power loss . Why would you only combine an AWD system with your lower horsepower engine? This is not consistent with a goal of producing a sporty/performance vehicle. (BTW, they did the same thing with the new GS)
-Manual transmissions have always been associated with sporting/performance applications. Again, why would you only offer a MT with your lower hp engine? Again, this is not consistent with a goal of producing a sporty/performance vehicle.
-At least I have to commend them on making the vehicle RWD. Acura is still trying to make sporty FWD vehicles to compare with BMW (though they do a fairly decent job of it!).
(Now for my bias) You rarely see a Japanese made vehicle out-perform a comparable German made vehicle in any comparison (Infiniti seems to be the rare exception to the rule).
You said it: it's a very biased statement. The whole statement hinges on your defnition of "out-perform" and "comparable." There are plenty Japanese cars that out accelearate and out-handle German cars in the same size segment. Ultimately, choosing a car is a balancing act among four things: size, sportiness (accelearation and handling) and luxury content, all three balanced against cost. German car makers historically have endeared itself to car rags by cheating on three out of four categories: fielding a car that was substantially smaller than compeition (3 vs. TL, G, ES, etc.), with less luxury content and interior, plus at higher cost. Three out of four compromises made, any wonder it would win in the fourth category?
Scientificly, there are two ways of defining what's comaprable: either by size or by cost. The Germans loses almost every time if either objective measures is held constant for comparison: TL and G beats 5, E and A6 on handling quite easily if size is the criterium for "comparable." TL and G beat 325, C230 and A4 1.8/2.0 handily if price is the criterium for "comparable.". It is only when one relaxes standards and bias the "comparable" in favor of the Germans that they would win compros; any wonder in the rigged result? If you are willing to spend moreny more on a smaller car with less luxury, chances are indeed good that you will get better handling unless the mfr is utterly incompetent.
As long as the size of the car is big enough for the target market, it doesn't matter that the E90 is smaller than the IS, they're both big enough. Personally, I think the G35 is too big - more of a mid-size car pretending (very well, mind you) to be compact.
Luxury is more than just feature content. Luxury, in large part, is qualified by the "feel" of an automobile. How refined is the drivetrain? How quiet is the interior? How solid is the body structure? How well does the suspension absorb impacts and/or transmit them to the cockpit? How do the doors feel/sound when you shut them? What do the plastics look/feel like? How smoothly do the controls operate?
An E90 with vinyl seats and halogen headlights may be lacking some features one expects to have in an "entry-level luxury" car, but it is definitely a luxurious where it really matters.
It really boils down to individual priorities. Size, amenities, handling, acceleration, refinement. All of these cars offer a different mix of them.
Some on Edmunds forums are saying a 6 foot man fits just fine in the back of the new IS. Perhaps its my physical limitations but I found the back of the IS250/350 uninhabitable vis-a-vis even the uncomfortable e46 I own. I am only 5-7 (145 lbs) and I could not get my legs into the foot area and place my bottom comfortably on the seat at the same time.
My pics:
Is250/350 backseat - notice my legs are cocked and my right knee is within an inch or so of the front seat (I'm only 5-7! so the driver's seat isn't that far back):
Backseat of my 330i - notice i have at least 4-5 inches between my knees and the back of the driver's seat and you can even see some of the seat cushion):
My feet in the foot area of the IS250/350 - they're smashed together, my shins are painfully crushed against the back of the driver's seat and my back is flush to the backseat (Note: you can barely see a bit of the seat cushion):
My feet in the foot area of the e46 330i - notice my feet are apart and at most the lower edge of chair touches my shin. My knees are also not even bent at 90 degrees:
Is this scientific? No. Will it be true for all? No. But to my experience, with the seat in the IS250/350 in a comfortable driving position I can not even come close to sitting semi-comfortably in the back of the IS. The chinese were into foot binding for over 1000 years, maybe Japanese engineers in the 21st century have a thing for leg binding.
BTW, that salesguy at the lexus dealer was totally perplexed. "Don't you want to drive it?"
"No thanks. Drove it already. Don't like it. Too soft. Sure you'll sell tons of them though..."
I do know a good chiropractor---seems you may need it after sitting behind the IS
Once again, it hinges on your definition of "comparable." RS6 is a $70-80k car; are you seriously comparing that to a $30k Japanese car and call yourself unbiased? What you call "options" in the forms of S6 and RS6 are nothing more than a waste of money for the overwhelming majority of buyers of A6. The sales of S4/RS4 and S6/RS6 combined don't even make up 10% of their A4/A6 volume, and can never get their R&D money back. What you call "options" are really the elimination of the very practical option of being able to get the A4 or A6 at an otherwise lower price, and the even more critically important option of getting an A4 or A6 that is reliable. The plethra of non-standardization is the big reason behind German unreliability and high cost.
I can't believe you even mentioned the ES - what car has that thing ever out performed?
.
BTW, the ES out performed 318's of its time quite well in typical American street and highway driving conditions; it certainly did better than the A6 2.8 quatro that could not even get out of its own way and accounted for the overwhelming majority of A6 sales for a long time.
My $45k says otherwise. The TL and C are long off my shopping list. IS, G and 3 are the only contenders left competing for my money. Prefer a folding top, both IS and 3 are making one, one can only assume G is to follow suit soon.
Mechanical issues with the 325xi?
What mecanical issues are you referring to? I did not know there were mechanical issues!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I think the Modeo platform was a winner, for what it was. The competition is just way ahead now.
Yeah, BG, nice gams!
Personally it would be the last car on a long list of competitors in the entry level sport sedan category.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Except for the Jaguar XKE! Unfortunately that was far too many decades ago!
That's exactly the point that I was making, historically, BMW had been selling smaller cars at high price on "sportiness." Suppose, Company I made an exact copy of the 5 series, and Company L made an exact copy of 7 series, and both companies sell them for $33k. Many rags and BMW fans would still claim that BMW's are better! The G35 came pretty damn close to the hypothetical copy of 5 series.
That's pretty funny considering Germans created the segment (BMW in particular), and the Japanese are the new comers to the segment.
That is a bit of a stretch!
Sort of like the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". Although a snatched body is identical to the body it replaces, the distinct character differnces between these two bodies remains distinct.
The same applies to your Company L theory! Although hp and other stats of Company L may resemble or even exceed an equivalent BMW, there remains a distinct differerence in the "character" and "feel" of driving a BMW.
Unrelated topic: Best version of the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers was directed by Philip Kaufman and filmed in 1978 with Donald Sutherland and Jeff Goldblum.
Sedan market existed long before BMW made 2002 (the predecessor of 3 series). The very concept of BMW sportsedan has been fielding a smaller sedan, giving it better handling, and charge the price of a bigger sedan.
BTW, what does the M35/45 compete with then?