Subaru Crew Cafe

1108109111113114343

Comments

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    most Japanese sportbikes are on a 2 year cycle! :) some three. only the non-competitive or singularly positioned (i.e. no direct competition) are longer.

    -Colin
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    I had a 1991 Accord Wagon 5 speed. It was one of the best cars I have ever owned. It still holds my record for most trips to Colorado and most vacation miles.

    Oh yes and you could program a TV remote to open the car since it had IR remote keyless entry.

    TWRX
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    My question about the Mitsu EVO is: What shape is it in after four years? From people I know, they are not known for durability.

    Perhaps most of the kids total them before four years!

    Jim
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If I remember right, the front edge of the OEM headliner is held up by the visor mounts and maybe a fastener in the middle (or just the map light trim). Anyway, you loosen all that up just enough to tuck the wires into the front edge of the headliner. I'd guess the same procedure would work for the aftermarket headliner.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - I think bumper height is the requirement, so that should lower bumpers. Not necessarily the entire SUV, I mean. The ML was the first in this trend.

    It does hurt approach/departure angles, though, so your theory about adjustable suspensions being more common could still be valid.

    Shorter life cycles would make sense on higher-end cars where the market is more competitive. For instance, the Outback Sport is in a price segment where noone has really broken through with anything to make it seem old.

    The Outback VDC, on the other hand, is close enough to some Mercedes models that will have 7 speed transmissions, while it makes do with a measly 4 cogs. So it would benefit from quicker innovation, at least.

    Even the new Golf will get 6 speeds. Still, it's well above the price range of the Outback Sport, and will overlap with the WRX.

    Craig: I'll have to look at mine, maybe remove the current visor. It's definitely changed substantially from stock, the entire headliner is tucked in at the top of the windshield, IIRC.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Honda seems to have recently moved to a 5 year cycle on most vehicles and even 6 years for the current Odyssey. The current Passat was introduced for the 98 model year and the new one won't be offered until the 06 model year in NA.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There are advantages and disadvantages to any product life cycle.

    Most new cars now use 5 years. The problem is, the longer the product life cycle, the more important it is that the new product be an absolute knockout. If it's just a nice makeover of the earlier product (like the current Legacy), it's going to get old very fast, and the last 2 - 3 years of that product cycle will seem like an eternity (again, like the current Legacy).

    The current Honda Odyssey is just such a vehicle. It was so good when it was introduced, that it could withstand a 6-year cycle. Now, however, the new Sienna has surpassed it, but it had a great run, for sure.

    Bob
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    I don't know about all this, but it seems there is a radical disconnect between length of finance terms and the supposed life cycle of cars.

    For instance, the new trend is to now offer 72 month loans, because 60 month loans are not enough anymore. If the life cycle of a car is supposedly only 4 years, then you'll still be paying for your car for 2 more years.

    I guess my real gripe is how difficult it is to work on your own car. Plastic parts everywhere which easily break and cost a small fortune and are never in stock at the dealer, which is the only place to get them. Dang! Just make things out of aluminum instead of plastic for longer life!

    But, I guess it's not in the car companies' best interests to do so--the'd rather sell you a new car for a 6-year loan when your 'old' one has some problems with it that you're still paying off for 2 more years. Progess Hmmph!

    Eric (given to ranting these days)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.naias.com./main.asp?sectionID=22

    No mention of Subaru. Hee hee...

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    "Dang! Just make things out of aluminum instead of plastic for longer life!"

    And then you'll be taking out 8 year loans!! :-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think I read the previews would be up on the 16th. Gotta keep our eyes out for that, to know what to look for.

    -juice
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    I just mean more thought should be given to lower repair/maintenance costs these days and durability. It seems to me that nobody is addressing this issue especially with the onset of everthing electrical/computerized. More complicated parts=lower reliability. Just streamline things. Don't make 4 small parts for one thing when 2 will do. etc. etc.

    But as I said, I think DIY car mechanics are a dying breed these days, as more and more people just don't want to bother with it. So I don't really expect anything to change.

    Eric
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From the Nissan site. This pricing is very aggressive, and lower than many had expected. These all include 305 HP V8, 5-speed automatic, AC, and a bunch of other goodies.

    Bob

    Prices for the 2004 Nissan Titan King Cab models are:
    ·Titan King Cab XE 4x2 $22,400
    ·Titan King Cab SE 4x2 $24,400
    ·Titan King Cab LE 4x2 $28,800
    ·Titan King Cab XE 4x4 $25,500
    ·Titan King Cab SE 4x4 $27,500
    ·Titan King Cab LE 4x4 $31,900

    Prices for the 2004 Nissan Titan Crew Cab models are:
    ·Titan Crew Cab XE 4x2 $25,100
    ·Titan Crew Cab SE 4x2 $26,700
    ·Titan Crew Cab LE 4x2 $31,100
    ·Titan Crew Cab XE 4x4 $28,200
    ·Titan Crew Cab SE 4x4 $29,800
    ·Titan Crew Cab LE 4x4 $34,200
    Note: Minor equipment may vary. MSRPs exclude tax, title, destination and handling.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'm still standing! LOL

    Few of my friends know how to work on their cars and fewer still are willing to these days.

    -c
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The only time I visit the dealer is for recall work or annual state inspections. It's more of an inconvenience than anything else. For instance, I recently had to get my WRX inspected, it's only 11 months old and has less than 5000 miles on it. Really burned my hide that I had to go through the whole service appointment routine to do that, and I just don't see how an almost new car needs to be inspected (they are also inspected before sale). Thankfully, the dealer's inspection tech must agree with me, he inspected the car in about 15 minutes and didn't even need to pull a wheel.

    For everything else, I will do it myself until I'm too old or dead!

    Craig
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    Eric
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Some of the guys that taught me use dealerships now. There are fewer and fewer of us.

    I offered to teach my sister and brother. Even they have busy college schedules, and would rather watch Anime in their spare time.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    yup it's only the enthusiasts out there that still work on them IMHO.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not even all my enthusiast friends, some don't have the time.

    So Colin, how you likin' that 330 loaner? Coupe or sedan? PP?

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I am an ould cripple and I still do most of my own work, and will continue to as long as I am able to.

     Cheers Pat.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    there's two "PP" for the 330i. :)

    Premium Package and Performance Package. This one is either Performance or Sport Package... I'll check right now as I'm about to leave work and I'll post my impressions from home later.

    -c
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not a bad loaner to have. Our last one was a Benz C240 4Matic. Ain't life grand?

    Ed has kept a dirty little secret he revealed in the chat. Loosh joked it was because he was ashamed, LOL. I'll let him fill the rest of you in...

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Nothing to be ashamed of, just no time to report it. New baby, you know.

    My wife bought a Honda Pilot EX (no leather, DVD or satnav) the day before Thanksgiving. She couldn't ask for a much better dealer experience. After locating one with the colors and options she wanted in a local dealer's inventory online, she called them and haggled on price. The salesman actually drove the Pilot to our house for her to examine, since she was supposed to be resting with the baby having been born just 6 days previous. It was still in plastic and yet to be prepped. She looked it over, liked it, did the deal in our living room. The dealer prepped it and she picked it up on Black Friday.

    She got a good deal on price, on her trade-in (a '91 Accord with 188K miles) and all dealer-installed options at cost.

    I haven't driven her Pilot yet, but I did test drive one with her several months ago. I'm sure it will be competent for her needs and as our big cargo hauler, but it is nowhere near as entertaining to drive as my Forester.

    Like Mrs. juice and some others here, she felt Subaru did not build anything large enough for her needs. She has been impressed with the treatment Patti and SoA have given me but, frankly, she has not been impressed with the service my two local suburban Philadelphia dealers have given me. Further, she has not been impressed with the three rear wheel bearing failures and failed head gasket I've had on the Forester in only 60K miles of ownership, not to mention the poor quality paint and windshield glass.

    As much as I enjoy the practicality, size and fun-to-drive factor of my car, I can't say as I blame her. She has had better experience with the reliability of her Honda than I have with my Subaru.

    That said, I know the weak spots in my Forester have been improved in the latest generation and I still have the XT at the head of my list when the time comes to replace my car.

    Ed
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ok, it is a premium package. Glass sunroof (so says BMW, I say 'moonroof') solves that mystery. It doesn't have the window sticker, btw.

    Also has the cold weather package, had to try out the crazy little pop-out/retractable headlight washers. Bi-xenon headlights are tasty.

    Engine performance is potent even when saddled with the automatic due to it being a 5spd auto, and the interesting throttle-by-wire tuning. The accelerator is firm, but only depressing it maybe 3/8" results in strong acceleration; I think BMW did this on purpose to make mundanes believe the car is faster than it truly is. But trust me, once you bury the throttle it's really not as fast as my M3. The performance below 3,000 RPM however, where I'm sure this engine is tuned and double VANOS sure doesn't hurt, is all over my M3. After 4,000 RPM though forget it. It's not that this 330i is weak, it's just that one of them gets to 6500 eventually and the other sings to 7000 with authority. :)

    Steering is firm, which I like, but still road-numb which I hate. All the E46s are like this, although the early ones did have more power steering boost and people really hated the light steering combined with bad road feel after the legendary steering feel the E36 had.

    Room is reasonable but as Juice said in another topic, the 3 series is a little small so the back seat passengers better hope the front ones aren't too long of leg. It's better than the E36 though, in particular with regard to rear seat headroom.

    Handling is good but not as good as it should be considering the somewhat abrupt ride quality. This model doesn't have the sport package but it does have some (ugly) many-spoked 17" wheels with 205/50-17 Goodyear Eagle GA all-seasons. Worst tire evAR as original equipment for a 3 series! They suck, bad.

    Harmon Kardon sound system is good but simply not that potent. I think the 3er's small size limits the rear speakers to 6.5" or less, and these days with integrated amps standard that's just not much bass punch. It sounds good, but not "WOW" by any means. (Mind you-- I have a heinously expensive home stereo and a few thousand in carfi gear sitting in a closet waiting for the right car and motivation.)

    All in all, according to Edmunds about $43,000 MSRP of bimmer is sitting in my garage with all of 3900 miles on the odo. Would I pay that? NO WAY. But money aside, it's an extremely well done car and I do see why they're selling tons of them. :)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great sales service. They really earned the sale. Tell her congrats for us.

    My wife enjoys driving, but I think at this point she's ready to throw in the towel and get something big for trips, so long as her daily driver is fun. She'd probably love a Pilot, thing is, neither of us wants to be the one stuck with the big vehicle as our primary car.

    I may lose that battle. I have the Miata as a 2nd car. She commutes in her Legacy and doesn't need any more space for day-to-day stuff. That means the Forester is really the best candidate to be replaced with something bigger. Plus it's older than the Legacy.

    If she likes the 7 seater, we may actually trade in her Legacy, dunno. I kind of doubt she will, her tastes run very conservative. We'll see.

    Then there's the possibility of the new Legacy, or an XT for me for now, then the 7 seater for her later. But that's pricey.

    So I'm firmly, surely, On The Fence.

    Colin: how are the cup holders? ;-)

    We drove a 325i automatic with that light steering. Didn't like it much at all, if you recall.

    Eagle GA tires? Aren't those silent touring tires? On a 330? What a mis-match. $43k is scary. Should be 5k less than that at least.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'm not sure what the "right" price is for this car. Apparently the market will bear what it is going for, although I personally will not pay that amount for any sort of car right now. If I married a woman who made what I did, maybe I'd change my tune. ;) Or hell if I married that dentist friend of mine in Denver I would... I mean *we* would be set. lol

    anyway yes the tires are really lame. hehe

    don't you have just two kids juice? why the insistence on a 7 passenger vehicle?

    -c
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    juice has plans to fill those seats ;-)

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Have you seen prices for braces lately? ;-)

    2 kids and a nanny, plus a lap dog.

    I'd be fine with a wide-body 5 seater, that could comfortably seat 3 in the rear. The baby seat is huge, the booster a little smaller, but still it's a squeeze between the two.

    But let's face it - right now every Subie in the lineup falls short of even being truly mid-sized. I love the way compacts drive, don't get me wrong. The new Legacy may actually cut it, I'm not sure.

    Another thing - the kids some times car pool. We give rides to other kids in the school, so the parents can take turns. Our nanny does not drive, unfortunately. So that means we could benefit from being able to carry 4 kids at times.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    On the other hand, the youngest will be in a booster soon. Plus, funny thing is as they grow they actually require a lot less cargo space. Port-a-cribs no longer needed, strollers, diapers, etc.

    So my preference is to rent a full-size van for trips, it'll surely cost less in the long run.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    With our son now 8 and in Cub Scouts, we use our van for hauling around kids and stuff almost weekly. Renting wouldn't work. And he doesn't even play soccer!

    Our MPV is 2" shorter than the new Accord. For anyone who appreciates mid-size and needs the occasional extra seats, it's a great value.

    Come on, Subaru, get that 7-seater to market! (But please don't build us a bus.)

    -brianV
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    7 seats but no bus... have you guys been in a Suzuki (shudder) XL-7 by chance? Just curious if that's the general nature of what you're asking for.

    When I was a kid, no one had 7 passenger vehicles and we got along fine. :)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Really? Dad had a fake woody wagon with 3 huge rows, seated 8, 9 in a pinch.

    We actually drove the XL7, that is the most narrow/long vehicle I've ever driven. Proportions are way off. The 3rd row also has zero legroom. It felt tippy and claustrophobic to me.

    It needs to be wider, MPV or Pilot sized in both width and leg room. I'm not asking for a behemoth, just a practical size, and I think those are about right.

    Bob wants it to be even bigger. My fear is any bigger than that and it'll be a gas hog and handle like one.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not necessarily. Pilot-sized (length) would be fine, I think. I would like it to have longer wheelbase than the Pilot, and to be more capable (off-road & towing) than the Pilot. I'd like it to be the same width as the Pilot, however.

    I think the Volvo XC90 is about the same length as the Pilot, but it has a longer wheelbase.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Some say 2nd row room in the XC90 was compromised for the 3rd row, so even that has issues with roominess.

    -juice
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    Car seats weren't mandatory, and most kids were out of them by the age of 4. Thus, you could cram a couple of extra kids in a 5-seater for car pools. Now, kids are in booster seats until 8 years old (in NJ, at least). If you have to drive just 3 young kids, you need the third row.

    Jon
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I have to sit back and laugh sometimes at the direction we are going, 7 seaters, big SUVs, minivans et al, you said when I was a kid we did not have seven seaters and we got along fine.

    Hell when I was a kid we could not even afford a car, and when we could it was Morris minors or Mini's.
    Most of Europe has astronomical gas prices and they still get along fine with small cars.

    When did the line between luxury and necessity get so blurred and where will it end.

      Cheers Pat.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yeah, I wonder what's different about today -- bigger families maybe?? I grew up in a family of four, and we always had basic 5 seat cars. Smallest was a VW Rabbit, biggest was a K-car (double shudder) station wagon, with different iterations in between. I don't remember any of my friend's families having real big cars either. Now, I routinely see four-person families driving around in large vehicles. Perhaps it's the minivan and SUV that changed everything.

    Craig
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    back then Mom and Dad weren't going to get a ticket for having 3 6 year olds belted in the back seat. Now they have to be in bulky, space robbing boosters until 8! That's a big kid, plus the damned seat. You're not getting 3 of those across the back of a Morris, or my Dad's 1968 Volvo 145, or Mom's 1973 Plymouth Scamp, or our 1986 Sable, or even our 1989 Merkur Scorpio. Maybe our 1983 Lincoln Grand Marquis Colony Park, but guess what? It had a 3rd row.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    In all fairness your wife had what is generally recognised as the best Honda Accord of all the 90 to93 model is something of a classic and still highly desirable if in good shape.

      I had a 91 4 door sedan and a 93 EX wagon both superb vehicles, in contrast a friend had a 97 Accord and had the engine rebuilt once, and then replaced in the first 8,000 Kilometres, and the trans replaced at 21,000 kilometres.

      Cheers Pat.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Anybody happen to catch the Dateline program tonight? It was on car dealerships and was titled "Tricks of the Trade". Very interesting. Downright scary how so many people out there are getting fleeced when they finance a new car.

    Caught another interesting program on pbs. It was Bill Moyers interviewing Franklin "Chuck" Spinney, the former Defense Department insider who has made it hi life work to question the accountability of the Pentagon. He's retired now but has a website titled "Defense and the Nation Interest" www.d-n-i.net. Talk about fleecing the American people.

    I know how you all feel about getting political here in this car forum but I was so outraged that I feel the need to share what I learned. Sorry to offend. Then again maybe I'm not so sorry. I think we all need to be offended once in a while. ;-)

    -Ian
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    the Dateline show ... and it WAS very interesting ... maybe more interesting since I knew I hadn't paid for all those 'extras' in the finance office!!
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Colin: When I a kiddo, my favorite place to ride was in the "way-far-back" in Mom's '64 LeSabre wagon. Taboo now.

    My 3 growing kids, booster seats, other people's kids (and all their stuff!) as well as aging parents that can't wiggle into or out of smaller cars factored into our last purchase decision. The OB is plenty big for me, but if I'm picking up the crew from school, it takes some logistical tinkering. Pilot's a nice size, as is the Escape/Tribute, but at least for the moment, not big enough for us. I can see Mrs. Ed's POV.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    When I was a kid, we had one of those huge Buick Estate Wagons, with a fold-down third row seat. So maybe times haven't changed all that much. But then again, even in a smaller car, kids could ride in the front seats at any age, and nobody had to be belted in. You could cram alot of kids into a small car if you needed to. Just can't do that now. A family of 3 or 4 young kids really needs a rather large vehicle, even if just to comply with child seating laws.

    Jon
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Colin: Nice review. I think I missed why you were driving the 330i. Is your M3 getting serviced?

    On my looong flight over to Taiwan, I was reading through a bunch of magazines and came across an interesting article in Fortune about VW. The article pointed out how VW is trying to hit the premium luxury market with it's Touareg and Phaeton with mixed results. It pointed out how it's necessary for a non-luxury car brand to establish a reliability track record first before it can venture upwards. The Jetta and Golf have been giving VW a poor track record in recent years.

    While it's not targeting anywhere near the Phaeton level nor is it suffering from dismal reliability, the article did make me reflect on Subaru's push for premium models. Other Japanese makes that have been successful all have had strong reliability records and even rebranded their vehicles. I wonder if Subaru can pull it off?

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    actually I'm not sure if I mentioned it here in the townhall. I did mention it in nabisco OT, but that moves a zillion miles an hour so even people that read it like Loosh and Ed probably didn't see.

    my M3 has two problems:
    1) hesitation while accelerating less than full throttle. also (and I believe it is related), if it idles for a while it will generate a check engine light. this goes out quickly once driving again and no MIL has ever been lit while driving, even when the hesitation is fierce.

    2) throttle has been sticking shut. better than open of course, but very annoying when you have to blip fairly hard to unstick it before leaving a stoplight.

    took it in thursday and got the aforementioned 330i.

    they called me thursday afternoon and said #1 was a misfire code, but they needed more time to properly diagnose. suspected perhaps wiring, and I've had a few little gremlins so I hoped so too, but it could be other things like a bad knock sensor and whatnot. they said #2 was stiction, but unfortunately it was not lube-able. the problem is fairly rare but when it occurs it's a non-serviceable item inside the throttle body. I was obviously hoping for something simple like greasing the pedal or throttle body linkage. :(

    so anyway, I approve up to a few hours' billable time to investigate the misfire better.

    friday morning they call again and have figured out the cause of the misfire. it's a faulty computer and the part is $1000 or so. oy. I get some assurances that this really is the problem (I'll break my foot off in someone's rear if they are wrong!) and tell them to order the computer. I also tell them to skip the throttle body, as a new one is $600.

    I did a little searching on the web and didn't find anything of use on the throttle body yet. after the hesitation is fixed, my plan is to take the TB off and put it in a non-petroleum solvent bath for a week or so to see if that loosens things up. if that fails, a used TB is my next option. third would be having this one rebuilt by a tuner, a slight overbore and mods being done as the excuse to just rebuild the whole thing and fix the sticking. I don't really care if the mods have zero effect...

    however, one counterbalance to this latest bit of routine wallet vacuuming is that I got a significant raise at work. I've been under market value for a while and they finally saw the light and brought me into the realm of reasonable. I'd thought of leaving here if nothing came through this time, and they did come through. that's good because I can't really leave right away since my sister has decided to move in with me. :)

    still-- I think I'll be eating lunchmeat sandwiches and ramen for a while to feel better about my burning credit card.

    -c
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Know you love that M machine but it might be time to go back to more reasonable to Maintain Sube, maybe a jazzed up XT or possibly new Legacy.

      Cheers Pat.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    They can't bring the new Legacy fast enough, Pat. :)

    In the 18 months and 18 thousand miles of ownership, excluding only gas, I've put at least $3000 into the M3 before this latest round of joy.

    I should've kept my Impreza, I loved that car and could have easily stuffed a used 2.5L SOHC in it myself, for a lot less. (It had a serious overheating problem, let's say for argument's sake the whole motor was a loss.) It was 'good enough' given how much of my leisure time I spend on motorcycles.

    -Colin
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    You know what they say hindsite is 20-20 :-)

      Cheers Pat.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Colin,

    That makes more sense now. I don't check the OT topic over at NASIOC.

    Well, just a few more months and you can move back to Subedom! :-)

    Ken
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    Sorry to hear your ordeal with the M. Maintaining it thru dealer service will help hold it's value if you decide to sell, even though it won't recover the repair costs.

    They are beautiful cars.

    Jim
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.