Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ok you win bob, as always, you are right...I'm not gonna argue with you on this since you never offroad, and believe everything you read...

    -mike
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    At Dinosaur National Monument (Colorado Side) there is a road called Echo Park Road that goes to the bottom of the canyons to the confluence of the Green and the Yampa rivers. There are steep switchbacks and mid way down the road there is an area called Sand Canyon. This is where my '98 Forester began to bind up in sand that was 6" or so deep. What I discovered was backing up and going through tracks that were already cut. The foot or so of sand piled up in front of the tracks I was trying to cut in the switchback convinced me to stay with the previously cut tracks. At the bottom of the canyon there was a Ford 4wd pickup and a Nissan Pathfinder. The black Forester was covered in the red sandstone dust that I would still be cleaning out of cracks the next year. We made it back to the top pretty easily and amazed the NPS visitor service people by telling them what we had driven to the bottom of the canyon. We were told that Echo Park Road averaged about one tow out per day.

    Coming Soon: Jeep roads in Canyonlands NP and the Forester!

    TWRX
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    17" rims with summer rubber and a 20" rear swaybar transform the WRX wagon. You definitely get that planted feel.

    I suspect that this upgrade will help the XT as well. I found this comment on nabisco by Paul Hansen.

    "..The entire Subaru lineup of the WRX, Legacy, Outback, Baja, and Forester is based on the same platform. What really defines the differences in handling between the cars is the suspension tune and wheelbase. Legacy end of the pond is the long wheelbase Subaru's, the Forester/WRX end is short wheelbase.

    The body shares the same platform as the WRX - except that it is *wider*. Earlier on in the GC8 era, the Forester was well known here in JDM-land for having *more* potential than the WRX in the mountain twisties. It had a slightly wider track and could get *more* rubber under the fenders than the WRX. And every WRX suspension piece bolted up. The new Forester and the new WRX are now roughly *equal*, because the WRX finally got wider fenders as standard.

    You have to ask which is cheaper - bolting on some suspension and putting on some real rubber, or switching from a 2.0-litre to a 2.5-litre turbo. Some people will opt for the Forester for this very reason - till the Legacy Turbo comes out."

    -Dennis
    P.S. There was a video on nabisco that showed a WRX wagon (or sedan) blasting to the top of a sand dune.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too bad VW doesn't do a 24 hour test drive. I could get one with paisan and spend 1/2 day at Summit Point, the other half at my buddy's farm in Hagerstown, MD. Then we could determine if it's a wagon or a 4-bah-4.

    But who will take a $40k designer SUV off road? Nobody. Who would risk scratching the nice paint?

    Get a stripped down XTerra, Rodeo, or Wrangler to do that job. There are fewer places to do it, anyway, with urban sprawl.

    RX8's back seat is still pretty useless. There is no leg room, so why bother with the extra doors? Then Mazda overstates HP (yet again). Then the 6 has that rust issue....I dunno, I'd let all that get sorted out before I would even consider one. Plus styling is odd at best.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pick TWO:

    WRX wagon: $21,368
    Forester XT: $23,899
    Baja turbo: $2?,???
    XTerra V6 4X4: $21,693
    Rodeo V6 4X4: $21,538
    Wrangler Sport I-6: $19,601

    fitzmall sells all of the above. They also sell Touaregs, currently for $33,601 up to $46,593. You could even squeeze in an EVO and a Wrangler.

    -juice
  • TWRX, before you head to Canyonlands for some offroading, check out a book titled, "Guide to Moab, UT Backroads & 4-Wheel Drive Trails" by Charles A. Wells. My wife and I try to Jeep a couple of weekends a year in the Moab area, and this book has been critical to finding, selecting, and navigating the best trails. The book details out the GPS coordinates of trails, difficulty ratings, and trail descriptions.

    Careful where you go with that Forester, though, since you'll encounter much more than sand on the Moab trails. Even fully modified Jeeps struggle on some of the tougher obstacles, and those are Wranglers with locked differentials, >33" tires, and >4.5" lifts. The Forester should be great for around 35% of the Moab area trails, which will let you see some spectacular scenery. For the harder stuff, consider renting a modified Wrangler from Farabees in the town of Moab.

    Have fun!
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I think the Forester XT would need uprated suspension-- struts at the least-- to really take full advantage of 17" wheels with summer tires and a bigger rear swaybar, whereas the WRX wagon is a bit firmer out of the box.

    actually juice-- I **totally** agree with your whole post especially the Mazda bits! scary. put that one on the calendar, won't happen again for a while! :)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oooh, buy a lottery ticket folks.

    Next mike will get better mileage from his next tank than me. ;-)

    -juice
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Actually Ty I don't have the Forester anymore. I went to Canyonlands in it in 1998. I did not actually go into the park in it. I went out Potash road from Moab to a spot that I knew had some great fossils. It is before you get to the park so it is a legal place to collect. I actually realize that the Forester is not the best offroader. My experience with it was that I did not have to worry too much about ground clearance, I had the diff skid plate installed but I did have somewhat of a problem with starting up on a steep uphill slope due to the lack of a low range. (My '91 Sidekick had been better out in Colorado the two times I took it there). Now I don't really have anything for that kind of road since I am driving a 2003 WRX sedan. I do plan to go to Utah this summer and I will get off on some gravel and dirt roads with it but it sure won't be anything rated as a jeep road.

    TWRX
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    Hey y'all,

    Been thinking of getting another Subie to complement our OB.

    Looking for an older 5-speed subie coupe with a flat-4 and AWD, with a budget of maybe 2 grand. A little performance would be nice too.

    What do you guys recommend?

    Thanks,
    Eric
  • Yeah, I know the Potash road well. We take that trail up/down when going to Dead Horse; it's also a good access point for White Rim. The light blue potash evaporation ponds are a weird sight in the middle of the rust red desert terrain.

    It's going to be awhile before my wife and I offroad again. We're expecting our first child in mid-March.

    In fact, the last time we went Jeeping in Moab my wife was one week pregnant; we just didn't know it at the time. Our little girl certainly got a bumpy introduction into the world!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Try an Impreza L, 1.8l or 2.2l. Both those engines are bullet proof. mike is running one at the track with 155k miles.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    yeah I've been looking for about the same so my sister will have something to drive if she ends up selling her car before she moves out here to Kansas. (I mentioned that, didn't I?)

    however all things being equal I'm really leaning towards a late 80s accord instead.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Buy one of Pat's 20 year old ones, they are in perfect shape! LOL

    Or...get a beater Miata that you could later turn in to a track car.

    -juice
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Ty, When you drive on Potash Rd. and get to the first really nice overlooks of the Colorado there are some nice fossil hunting areas. It is a point roughly down from where the Dead Horse Pt. overlook is. I am an Earth Science teacher here in Indiana and anywhere with good fossils draws me. The fossils there are Pennsylvanian marine fauna. There are snail fossils and clam fossils about 6" long. Anyway due to finances and such I have not been out west since 2000 and next year I think the wife and I are going to hang out in Moab for a few days and also go over to the Zion and Bryce side of the state because we have never been there. This will be my third trip to Moab, love the formations, fossils etc.

    TWRX
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Another hang over from rebateville. $2000 on Baja really killed any hope for profits on that model.

    Still, things are looking up with the new Legacy around the corner.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You guys didn't think I'd forget my usual arm chair quarterback review, did ya?

    TSX A-spec: dumb name replaces "Factory Performance". Basically grossly overprice bling-bling, and mostly cosmetic. I'm sure it'll sell like crazy, but Type-R would have sold even better. Nice seats, though.

    CTS Sport: they supercharged this one. Cadillac is 2 Legit 2 Quit (bad MC Hammer reference). Is it just me or is the CTS really growing on people?

    Escalade ESV Exec Ed: So tasteless inside and out that I'm sure hip-hop artists will buy them.

    SRT-4 Extreme: this is more of a rolling parts catalog. We should envy Dodge for offering so many factory parts via Mopar and then covering them under warranty. Hear that Subaru?

    Viper SRT-10 Carbon: not sure I like the new Viper look, but all that real carbon fiber under the hood sure looks cool.

    Focus RS8: I'm on the fence on this one. Big V8 crate motor in a modified light chassis. But why start with the wrong platform to begin with? And I can't imagine the suspension can sustain the weight of a V8 up front. For 1/4 mile, fine, but on the track this would be way off balance.

    GMC Canyon AT4: lots of great ideas here. Bob would love the retractable tonneau cover, the liner, the rails. But...can it tow more than 1000 lbs without trailer brakes? ;-)

    Tiburon SC: your mom is 2Furious because you spent your money 2Fast on this sport compact.

    GTO Autocross: bold name, no? It's lowered, even though they don't mention it. 50 more HP is always good. But...won't it still be kind of heavy and big for autocross? It would seem to be more at home at the track. And maybe they could give the Pontiac fans a fade hood scoop since they're crying out for one.

    Scion xA: almost the full-body cladding that I crave. Color stolen from Franken L, mike should sue for copyright infringement!

    -juice
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    Yeah I sold my old 89 chevy wagon with 167k on it because the tranny was slipping and there was a terrible fuel smell in the cabin--could be dangerous. So I'd like an extra commuter car.

    Any problems with the 93 impreza that they fixed later? Any problems with 93 to 95 imprezas would be appreciated. How does everyone like the quality of the 5-speed tranny?

    Miata--now there's an idea...

    Eric
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    TL A-Spec: $5 grand, see what I'm talking about? Acura wants a piece of the cash cow that is the custom market. This could hit $40 grand installed with the cost of the car, though, and it's still got FWD disease...

    Civic Si HFP: again, $4 grand is crazy for a cosmetic package, factory or not. The engine is still weak for this class. Most people would just address the tires and suspension for 1/4 of the cost or less.

    New H1: where's the Duramax? Just 440 lb-ft? mike would be seriously disappointed. ;-)

    H2 SUT: why is the Baja the only vehicle that doesn't get a mid-gate these days? It'll be embarassing, but this H2 SUT will actually outsell the Subaru.

    Mazdaspeed Miata: I'll have to drive this one to give it my verdict. More power is fine, as long as it doesn't feel heavy or lose any of that tossable nature. If so, then I'll be looking at a used one in a couple of years, if Subaru does not build the B9 Scrambler.

    EVO RS: great idea, but the price should be lower than the regular EVO given all that was deleted. These would pop up all over Summit Point.

    350Z Nismo: Nismo parts are not only specifically designed for Nissan vehicles, they're covered by Nissan's limited parts and accessory warranty says Edmunds. Too bad we can't say the same about SPT.

    Corolla XRS: the S was already cute, for a tall car anyway. This looks cuter, but still not like a serious challenger to the WRX or even the SRT-4. Celica sales died so they probably figured they'd put the spare engines in the Corolla. Still, where's the torque?

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Obviously it depends how it gets classed, but I can't think offhand of any class where it would be lighter or more nimble than current champs.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's a track car, but not an auto-xer. Although give us the REAL Holden model and it might beat out the other F-bodies in whatever class they are in.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It was actually funny to see the F-bodies do the Carousel at Summit Point. They were just miserable, one even spun off completely (the only car all day that we saw go off).

    The GTO has an indy rear and should be better, but still, it's kind of heavy.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not too glowing, they called it "clunky and heavy", the V8 that is.

    Their biggest qualm was with the throttle-by-wire, and they didn't like the feel of the brake-by-wire either.

    I felt the same about the by-wire systems in Mercedes' latest fleet of cars. Proof that maybe technology just for tecnology's sake isn't enough reason to switch over.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://vortex3.rely.net/artman/publish/industry_news/article_470.- - shtml

    will pique paisan's interest: A massaged V10 diesel putting out 373bhp & 634 lb/ft at just 2,000rpm.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Finally someone speaks the truth...

    Abt Sportsline has opened the UK order book for its all-new Abt Touareg VS10, the world’s most powerful diesel 4x4 road car. Based on Volkswagen’s diesel-powered Touareg V10, the new car offers a significant uplift in power (373bhp compared to the standard Touareg V10’s 303bhp), a stylish new bodykit and a revised suspension system to deliver a more sporting drive.


    Never said I didn't like the Touareg, just said it was a great wagon! :) Obviously that link agress (see bold portion)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those flares look like the upcoming Outback's. Pretty cool overall.

    Still, it looks more like an inflated Golf than an SUV or even a wagon.

    I'll have a burger, fries, and super-size my Golf please. At least they super-sized that diesel too.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    mm love the diesels in general. Wish my Trooper was worth something, i'd have a Duramax in the driveway already.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Who better to do the first engine swap?

    Call some junk yards and have them put you on the list for the first Duramax wrecked from behind or rolled over.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm interesting....

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    maybe I could rent one and roll it ;-)

    -Dave
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yeah, the way that one is set up.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    * News on the Honda/Acura "casual" pickup. If it debuts, it would spell more bad news for the Baja.

    * Mercedes is working on a diesel hybrid, which will go into some Freightliner FedEx trucks shortly for fleet testing. That being the case, I'm assuming it's based on the 5-cylinder 2.5L diesel engine currently used on the Sprinter models. Interestingly, in this application (and unlike other hybrids), the diesel never shuts off.

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6619&sid=17- - - - 3&n=156

    Bob
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Seriously, what (if anything) would spell "good" news for the Baja?

    Craig
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    couldnt get them out of it. they wanted it versus the forester. so baja has it followers.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Get the next-generation model into showrooms ASAP! They can't afford to wait the normal 4–5-year product cycle on this vehicle. Also build it off the larger (and more capable!) up-coming crossover platform?

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Honda PU - my wife has been hinting that I should get a truck but I have no interest. This though would be a great alternative after we're done with the our Ody. She's an avid gardener and rockscaper. I'm tired of her dumping boulders into the Ody!!

    Diesel Hybrid - I'm not diesel savvy so indulge me please: wouldn't there be some issue with time in restarting if the engine were to be turned off?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From what this link says, the diesel does not shut off. The diesel and electric engine both run all the time.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dave: it's your mission, should you choose to accept it...

    The Baja Botch leaves lots of lessons for Subaru. Have brochures ready. Watch the pricing. Watch the content. Offer the powerful engine up front. Careful with the colors. Leave the cladding on the old Pontiacs.

    But...I'm not convinced Honda will find that many buyers, either. Look at it this way, Explorer outsells the Pilot by about 4 to 1. So the Sport Trac might outsell the Pilot Crew cab 4 to 1. That would put sales well below Honda's forecasts.

    Plus, it would cut into Pilot and Odyssey production, and those models are hot. It's a big risk Honda would take.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I was responding to your comment that "Interestingly, in this application (and unlike other hybrids), the diesel never shuts off."

    I thought perhaps you were questioning the reason for that. I guess not.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Current loyal Honda owners who want a truck have always had to go outside the brand to buy one. Kind of like minivans before 1999 and SUV's before 1998. This gives them something to buy within the Honda line.

    I think the Explorer outsells the Pilot because there are just that many more Explorers available. As for production, Honda has plenty of space in Alabama!! I wouldn't be suprised that Honda will meet their expectations. But then again, nobody pays me to tell them what to build.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Gotcha. Sorry, I did misunderstand your post. Yeah, I do wonder about that.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If they have excess capacity, this is one way to use it. But I didn't think they did have any.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't think it's a big risk, if the product is right, and is priced right. The personal use crew cab market is absolutely exploding. Dodge, Toyota, etc., are selling these things by the boatload. Everybody is racing to get on the bandwagon.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, let's explore that a bit.

    Do you think it would cost more, or less, than a regular Pilot?

    If it's more, that would give the Avalanche a big price advantage. Plus it's bigger and has more payload.

    Of course you realize Honda could sell a Pet Rock as transportation and people would buy it.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I traded in my Honda Pet Rock on my first Subaru, it held it's value really well for a rock.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here is how Honda would market it:

    * zero emmissions vehicle
    * stone-cold reliable. Literally.
    * very fuel efficient (uses none)
    * cheapest way to own the "H" badge

    :o)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on BMW & MB:

    Wednesday, 19th November, 2003

    BMW stands out in a European context as a car company doing pretty well while its peers struggle to make profits. One big factor in BMW’s success was dumping Rover back in 2000 and focussing on high-margin executive, sports and luxury models. For all the griping among journalists about Bangle’s adverse design influence on models like the 7 and 5, there’s little sign that BMW is heading for a major profits dive. The company’s products are generally well liked by the market and BMW has no trouble in commanding a badge premium. A lower euro against the dollar would help profits from the US, but there’s hedging for now.

    BMW has – overall - also been pretty successful with the Mini brand I think, successfully taking the idea of a premium brand into the small car sector. Maybe that’s partly where Mercedes-Benz went wrong with the A-class – keeping it in the Benz brand - although I realise that even the suggestion that the A-class has not been successful will always be vigorously contested by Mercedes-Benz (but plenty believe it is still not profitable when development costs are taken into account). DaimlerChrysler has its ‘smart’ car brand of course, for cars that it would not want to see besmirch the three-pointed star, although what driving a smart says about you and where the brand is positioned is still unclear to me (especially with the upcoming Forfour).

    But breaking out into new segments raises questions – for both Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Does it mean higher costs, lower margins and a dilution of brand image if going downmarket? Actually, on the last point, I hear that the execution of the 1-Series gives it a very premium feel (it borrows quite a bit from the 3-Series).

    One thing’s becoming clear though – both BMW and Mercedes-Benz are looking to grow volume and get into new segments and there’s plenty of product action coming up – BMW: X3, 6-Series, 1-Series; Mini Cabrio; M-Benz: Compact Sports Tourer, Grand Sports Tourer, R-class, CLS.


    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Do you think it would cost more, or less, than a regular Pilot?

    If it's more, that would give the Avalanche a big price advantage. Plus it's bigger and has more payload.


    It will probably be priced about the same, maybe a little less, depending on how it's contented.

    As to the Avalanche, I don't think many Honda customers will shop Chevys. If the Honda pickup is unique enough, in its own way, I don't think that will be a problem.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    See, I think that strategically, it should cost less. Even if they have to remove a few features.

    Even though Baja had more content, it started out much higher priced than the base Outback.

    Pilot does not even offer a moonroof, so the Crew Cab shouldn't. I think these vehicles have to lean more towards utility and less towards pampering luxury.

    -juice
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