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Comments
-juice
Still prefer the Mac.
Jim
SOA gave me a reply as to what is torque binding, although the answer brings up more questions. Here's what they wrote:
Hello Eric:
I have discussed 'torque binding' with our Technical Services Department. Torque binding is caused by differences in circumference between the tires on a vehicle. When going around a curve, the controller in the transmission
controls the speeds at which the tires spin. If one or more tire has a different circumference than the other tires, the tires will spin at
different speeds. Each tire has a speed sensor. As the transmission detects different speeds for the different tires, it reacts by slowing the
speed of the 'faster' tire(s) to equal the speed of the other tires. Doing this causes the torque binding.
While torque binding sounds like something to be concerned about, it is actually how the vehicle is designed. To prevent torque binding, you would
need to make sure that all four tires on your vehicle are the same circumference.
As I am not technical, I do hope that I have explained this condition well.
Best wishes,
John J. Mergen
Subaru of America
Clear as mud! ;-)
--Eric
A full-time AWD/4WD allows for all the wheels to turn at different speeds, through corners, so that doesn't happen. Torque binding can cause damage to the drivetrain.
Bob
I drove a Prius today, Bob. If I can find time to write a review, I will.
-juice
But to summarize, wow, I was very impressed. Very nice interior materials. I think I had gotten used to Nissan's, which are plain AWFUL compared to the finished edges of the plush carpets in this Toy.
The drive was unremarkable, which is remarkable. So quiet, so smooth, you don't feel the transitions from electric to gas, or gear shifts.
I never thought I'd say this but a hybrid SUV will be on my next shopping list.
-juice
I'm curious, did you look under the hood? I'm wondering what the battery voltage is? As you know, many in the auto industry are saying 42-volt batteries are on the way; I'm wondering if these new hybrids have a 42-volt battery?
Also, what was the MSRP?
Bob
I had no idea that there was a Test Drive topic that you guys contribute to. How do you keep up with all of the new features at Edmunds?
Ken
In fact, the few nit picks I can think of had absolutely nothing to do with the powertrain. I don't have a single complaint about Hybrid Syngergy Drive.
Even paisan can't ignore having 295 lb-ft of torque at idle, which I'm sure he'd consider "barely adequate". ;-)
-juice
This was an event that Toyota sponsored in conjunction with Whole Food Markets, where green-friendly customers shop, so it was a nice tie-in. They gave me a $10 gift card just for trying a Prius, with zero pressure because no sales staff were around. I had a great time.
The wife gets her gift card, everyone's happy!
Off to try a Malibu tomorrow. Any last minute interest?
-juice
Ed
Paisan and Graham also contribute, as well as a few others who haunt other forums.
Bob
So, does Edmunds help at all in getting the test drives for you or is it completely based on your enthusiasm?
Ken
Bob
Craig
So the salesman made a photocopy of my drivers license and started fill out my contact info. He then gave me a card to fill out as well. Then the catch: "In order for you to be eligible fro the TV drawing, we have to treat you as though you are planning to buy a car. So we're gonna need to run a credit check on you..."
I replied, "No, you don't," tore up my card and left. There was nothing on the invitation that indicated that was a condition of entering the drawing - not even fine print. I have never encountered anything like that before in my life.
So I'm more than a little angry about the sleaziness of it all, and just a little disappointed I didn't get to drive the car. I may never get to drive a Corvette in my lifetime, but if I do I can assure you it won't be under those circumstances.
I know it's against Edmunds' policy to name dealers and salespeople, so suffice it to say that this dealer is in Bucks County, PA. It may well be worth a duplicate post in a Corvette forum here, and will certainly get mentioned on the "other" Subaru board.
Ed
-Brian
I will add several reviews today, actually. I drove the Malibu, Sonata, Camry, and Accord at that event. Wasn't bad, by the way, one course was a full mile long. The Malibu was saddled with rather pathetic rubber (65 series) but I managed to hone my autocross skills.
I tell ya, it's like free practice laps. ;-)
Ed: while this was a low-budget event, they still treated us well. There is simply no excuse for the way you were treated.
Trust me, my wife is the Freebie Queen, we've done dozens of these events, and I have *never* had a credit check run on me. Several dealers will even sign the certificate even if you do not drive the car, which is what they should have done. I can understand them not wanting folks to go for joy rides in sports cars, but that's still inexcusable.
BTW, the Malibu event was decidedly low budget. The tent wasn't heated (and it was brisk, baby), snacks included just apples, cookies, and chips, plus coffee and sodas. Port-a-potty was the only rest room.
Compare that to the climate controlled tents with full facials and catered food at events hosted by Mercedes, Volvo, and BMW.
The Malibu, dynamically, actually holds its own, you'd be surprised. Problem is, besides, those tires, the interior is low budget and quality control was off. I found 5 sample defets, 3 of them trim pieces that had fallen off completely, plus 2 loose pillar trim pieces.
I'll do the reviews shortly.
-juice
Did you drive the Malibu Maxx or the regular Malibu? I've seen a couple of magazine articles that give the standard car good marks but for the OEM tires and interior plastics.
Ed
We drove the sedan, not the Maxx. But I was able to get in and crawl around a Maxx. Neat features - DVD player, remote start, rear sky lights, etc.
-juice
http://subaru.com.au/downloads/929304.pdf
Steve
The discussion on braking on gravel is interesting. Australian gravel road surfaces are different from European or US ones, for some reason (I vaguely recall some story about Australian gravel being rounder or tending to have differnt size characteristics - sounds a bit dubious to me).
In most conditions, ABS will stop the car more efficiently. However, under straight line stops on certain depths of Australian gravel, a trained and practised driver can achieve a better stopping distance by locking the wheels, building a wedge of gravel in front of the tyre, most of the time. Note all of the qualifiers in the previous sentence. For almost all other conditions, ABS is dramatically better, achieving a cycle of cadence braking 30 time per second where a skilled driver may be able to do it twice.
The one area where I have had problems with ABS was actually on icy slush in England where my Mercedes appeared to totally disengage its brakes.
There's an important point to note with ABS. In non-ABS cars, we always knew we were going too fast when the brakes locked up. If you grew up in a small town, you could be pretty sure that Mum and Dad would know you were driving too fast as well as there was always someone around to notice and mention your misdemeanours.
The same rules apply to ABS equipped vehicles. If you have had it operate, you were going too fast. Slow down!
Cheers
Graham
-juice
Now I was able to drive a Vette at the GM Autoshow in Motion this summer. It was fun but lasted less than 2 minutes.
Ed
I like to think of an ABS system as a built-in threshold braking test. If my ABS engages, I have done one of three things incorrectly; misjudged road and traction conditions, misjudged speed and safe braking distance, or applied braking pressure incorrectly. The good news is, with ABS, I have an excellent chance to correct the problem (by being able to steer while still applying braking force)before it results in an accident. So I agree whoreheartedly with Graham, slow down when conditions are bad. Good sense is at least as valuable as good brakes.
IMO, Owen
-juice
http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_108.shtml
Bob
So anyway I drove a WRX and was......well, I dunno. Maybe I need to spend more time with it. Or maybe my Leg is so dialed in that any out-of-the-box new car feels detached to me. I mean I liked it, it seemed fast (although I was trying not to go too far over 4k out of respect for a potential buyer), but my butt dyno didn't thrill the way I thought it would. Now, I have driven broken-in examples and been more imprezzed, so it could be that. I do like the cockpit; the headliner sux though. It was a good handler. I think I need to drive a mildly modded one though- bigger sways, better tires, broken in- that kind of thing.
-Brian
Several factors affect under/over steer other than AWD. Tire wear, pressures, relative roll bar thickness, weight distribution.
With auto Subies (excluding VTD), the AWD is mostly front-wheel drive.
The thunk is the sound of your diffy complaining as it suddenly gets load transfered as you shift. With AWD, the tires don't break loose so the drivetrain takes the shock.
Ken
Despite my best efforts of trying to make this an all-Subie family, my son may be selling his '96 Impreza Outback in favor of the new hybrid Toyota Prius. He's really excited by this new car, so it looks like I need to go check one out.
He and my wife went looking yesterday. They even looked at Subies. Today my wife, who cares absolutely nothing about cars, said that Subaru really needs to improve their styling...
Bob
You mean you weren't glued to the Speed Channel last night like the rest of the nabisco crew? ;-) I know I was. Great racing! And for those that haven't already found out somewhere else...PETTER is World Champ!!!! WooooHOooooo! Go SUBARU!!!
Even my wife was excited for him. She said at least he shows how psyched he is when he wins.
-Ian
There's another one on Speedvision 11/16 at 6pm.
Craig
Eric
Having said that, I would like to know how big a PITA it is to buy out of state. Do you get temp tags from the state of origin, call your insurance people, drive it home and then pay tax tags and title at the DMV? Or do you complete the whole transaction over the phone and fax, get tags and insurance straight, then go get the car, or what? Seems complicated to me, but if the deal is right it could be worth the hassle.
(leftover 2003 Sonic Yellow 5MT WRX wagon 4 hours from here in PA)
In this case though, you may have to do the registration yourself. Maybe you'd need to pick up the registration form prior to delivery and fill it out when you sign the papers. Then just take that (and your new yellow toy) to your local DMV, 4+ hours away.
Nice way to eat up some miles on the break-in btw.
Not going to give a Forester XT MT a spin, eh?
-Brian
And.....well, I hate to put it this way, but...um..I live in a fairly liberal, white, urban part of Baltimore and, er, we have quite a few Foresters here and....mmmmmm....let's just say I'm not the picture of typical neighborhood Forester ownership.
When we just had an Outback and a Forester, I felt like the Forester was the sports car of the bunch, and would take it out for fun drives all the time. After adding a WRX to the mix, the Forester is clearly not a sports car! I would love the XT engine, but the rest of the car is clearly not for serious sporting drivers. You'd have to sink a lot of $$ into the XT to get it where the WRX already is, handling wise, and most of it would go against the original purpose of the car. So, I definitely think the WRX is a better choice. If you can find a heavily discounted 03 leftover, even better!!!
Craig
Unapologetic Rally Nut, Owen
Dunno how to respond to that "typical Forester owner" comment; I'd like to think I'm a little outside that norm but probably not that much. Then again, outside of these boards I've not run into any Forester owners with the same set of hobbies...though I suspect that will change.
If the price is right by all means travel north for the Hostess cupcake yellow WRX wagon. ;-P Drop a line to Dennis (bluesubie) for some input as well.
Ed
But yeah, the XT is quick even at 2000rpm, especially with the short first gear.
You could say the opposite about handling, though.
Bob - you saw my Prius review, it's impressive IMO. An Outback Sport will cost at least $3 grand less, though, and that buys a LOT of gas where you live!
If he likes the range and the green factor, then Subaru does not (yet) compete in that segment.
Does your wife like the B11S? The B9 Scrambler?
Loosh: I think in MD you can take care of car insurance up to 15 days after the purchase. Dealer will probably do tags for you, if not it's an afternoon at the MVA.
-juice
A little 'phobic there? ;-)
You might need to check on both sides about out-of-state sales. Some states won't sell to you unless you have a local address (ie. Oregon, IIRC). However, if you do manage to buy out-of-state, check to see what it takes to register a vehicle as used in Baltimore. Some folks here in CA go up to Oregon to buy a car using a local address (no sales tax there), put 3K miles on it and then register it as a used car in CA.
But honestly, do give the XT a whirl before you buy. You should at least know your next-best-alternative.
Ken
Right now I am looking at the Nikon CoolPix 2100.
Any other recommendations? Would like to keep it at under $300 as this will be my everyday sort of camera and would rather spend the $ on memory and batteries.
bit