Subaru Crew Cafe

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, good to hear. My dad's Taurus wagon, shared by my lil' bro and sis, has become a total beater. It's been falling apart so I guess they really don't care, but it doesn't exactly teach them to care for their personal property.

    Does your daughter drive stick or auto?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    She's curious about 5-speeds. Two of her close girl friends drive stick, so I suggested that she talk to them. I think she would really enjoy a stick, once she learned. On the flip side, I'd hate to get her a stick, and then later find out she regretted not getting an automatic.

    I taught our son on my old Accord 5-speed, and he hated it. So, you can understand my reluctance to push her towards learning a 5-speed. On the other hand, she has expressed some interest in taking some colleges classes overseas, perhaps spending her junior year abroad. If that happens, learning to drive stick would be a real advantage, as automatics aren't nearly as plentiful as they are here.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't push, let her try it out and if she pushes you to get a stick, then fine.

    I agree that everyone should learn how, regardless of what they own.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I mentioned the new Forester has the Hill-Holder clutch, and she thought that was a great idea. The thing my son hated most about the 5-speed, was starting off on a hill. I could never get him past that fear. He *did* learn, but never enjoyed it. She's also somewhat apprehensive of that starting on a hill issue, as she's ridden enough in both her girl friend's cars, to be aware of that problem.

    If you may recall, last winter one of her girl friends, who is a car nut (and is planning on majoring in mechanical engineering at U of MD to be car engineer!), is the one who wrecked her Integra because the "Plus? wheels" caused a catastrophic front suspension failure. In any event, she would be a good source for her to consult with, as to the pluses and minuses of a 5-speed vs. auto.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    She probably had way too much unsprung weight. I mostly blame the wheel/tire shop for selling her those without at least a matching set of springs and shocks.

    Hill holder makes it much easier to teach newbies, that is a big plus.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    to upgrade her suspension, and never did. It turned out to be a very expensive lesson to learn. The car was totalled, however, insurance did give her $18K for it. I bet her insurance premium is now sky high.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'm guessing this integra used wheels with very wrong offset, that's the only thing I can think of that would cause a "major suspension failure". You know, the "skateboard" look.

    also: I am back online at home and pics of the bimmer will be forthcoming... watch this space tonight / tomorrow.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it was pretty radical looking. You couldn't even load the luggage area without having the rear tires rubbing something. It was NOT a smart move on her part. I think (hope!) she learned from it.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    She gets $18k, insurance charges her an extra $1k for the next 18 years. 3 years actually, is the industry standard.

    Reminds me - I owe you guys a pic! Gotta wash Sandy and catch them side-by-side.

    Sounds like her offset and maybe even the total diameter were off.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    over on the 4Runner forum: The '03 4Runner will get the following engines:

    V6 - 245 hp & 283 ft/lbs torque, with Multi-Mode 4WD (selectable full-time, which it currently has).

    V8 - 232 hp & 320 ft/lbs torque, with permanent 4WD.

    Yep, more HP from the new V6 than with the V8. The new V6 will either be a 3.8L or 4.0L engine. All this info came from a Toyota (sales?) guy who went to a meeting on the new 4Runner. It's due out this fall.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I bet they let prices climb. The Highlander fills the gap below it. I wonder if they'll offer 3 rows? Bet they do.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    from what the Toyota guy said. It will share the Lexus GX470 platform, but reportedly will look different. Prices will probably climb a little, but will be under the Sequoia.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Different? Too bad, the GX is quite handsome.

    No 3 rows is a huge mistake. Mid-size competitors have it.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yep I agree on that. The 4runner is in the running as my next truck if they do it right, but doesn't look likely though. Maybe they want to push people into the lexus?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess you could put in an aftermarket one. I followed a link someone shared in another thread and the one for the Trooper looked really cool, actually.

    Check out the Sorrentos, paisan, but buy a 2005 or earlier because rumor has it Kia will drop the 100k warranty.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's cool, but not functional enough. Too rounded. My troopa will last about another 200K miles so by then hopefully someone will come up with a suitable affordable replacement.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    By then maybe even the Rodeo could grow into that role. The Ascendor will be immense, so there is room for it to grow.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    will likely be a TB or Blazer clone in it's next itteration, or an enclosed version of the S10/Colorado.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but Isuzu is doing all the engineering right? Or will GM take over next time around?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    for the new 4Runner. That being the case, I think it would be safe to assume that the '03 Sequoia, Land Cruiser and Lexus LX470 will also get 5-speed autos; perhaps even the Tundra...

    I'm not wild about he fold-up 3 row seats on the Lexus GX470. They create rear-view blind spots when folded. It's much better to have them fold into the floor.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Cause then when you load up cargo into the back you don't have to worry about dirt and what-not getting into the seats.

    The TLC and LX470 are being discoed in US market due to crumpleless zones. :(

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not necessarily, Bob. The trannys have to be beefed up for those applications. It would make better sense for the lineup, but I wouldn't assume it.

    With the non-indy rears we're not going to see any seats that fold into the floor. They need room for that pumpkin to dance around.

    They could maybe re-do the Highlander to get more space out of that. The rear seat was awful so I'd start there, and figure a 3rd row while you're at it.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Also, Pilot and Explorer have 5 speed autos, so 4Runner has to compete with those.

    The Navigator and Escalade both make do with 4 speed autos.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is being used on the 4.7L V8 GX 470, that's the same engine used in the LX 470, Sequoia, and Land Cruiser. My guess is that the 5-speed automatic will eventually replace the 4-speed automatic on all V8 Toyota/Lexus trucks/SUVs, probably all V6s too. It may take a few years, but I'm sure it will happen.

    Are you sure about the LX470 and Land Cruiser being discontinued here in the USA? That's the first I've heard of that rumor.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that case, yeah, it'll trickle into the lineup. I doubt it's the same unit from the 4Runner, though.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You do realize the engine in the Sequoia is not the same exact engine as the TLC/LX470, there are different HP and torque #s on the TLC/LX470.

    I wish I still had the article that described how the TLC and LX470 were being discoed in the US as well as the Trooper because they don't comply with federal crumplezone requirements for 2004MY

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << You do realize the engine in the Sequoia is not the same exact engine as the TLC/LX470, there are different HP and torque #s on the TLC/LX470. >>

    I'm sure it's just a matter of tuning. I'm sure the engines are 99.9% the same.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The block is the same :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's probably nothing more than some re-programed computer chips that separate the engines, and maybe some different plumbing in order to fit the engines in different vehicles.

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    did that with the 4.0 Liter I6 in the Cherokee, Comanche, and Wrangler, even back when AMC was making 'em. The Cherokee and Comanche had 180hp, while the Wrangler was 170-ish. Same engine, just de-tuned. I believe it was mainly due to different trannies.

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it's common industry practice to offer slightly different versions of the same engine in different vehicles for whatever reasons.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, usually the plumbing (intake and exhaust) make up for the difference. Engine internals are probably the same.

    In VW's case, the 1.8T in the Passat makes a published 170hp, but many VW fans insist the engine is identical to the 180hp in the Jetta and A4. So the rating exists only to differentiate the A4.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    hearing that the AMC 4.0L I6 was de-tuned itself from the later 4.0L HO I6. Again, mainly due to tranny capabilities.

    -Brian
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869

    Grrrr. My wife's Jetta just threw another CEL. I'm going to guess it's yet another failed O2 sensor.

    The car is great except for the fact that it eats O2 sensors. We've had FOUR go bad on us in under 20K miles. This recent one will make it 5 at 21K miles.

    Everything else about the vehicle's been great except for the O2 sensors.

    The cool news is that my wife is getting tired of the frequent trips to the dealer and mentioned the possibility of getting a Subaru instead. :-D

    Getting another vehicle is still a remote possibility, but I'm trying to get her to consider a Legacy L or GT sedan (juice -- sound familiar?). She even said she would consider a plain Jane Impreza too. I think her concern is around crash test safety and solid brake feel. She was in a pretty bad accident with our last Camry. If fared well on the impact, but braking distance was never too great.

    Ken
    (keeping his fingers crossed)
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    will lower the torque peak and fatten the flat portion of the curve. This is usually done for the 'truck' application, where low end grunt is loved by contractors, etc. As HP is usually calculated from the torque curve measurement - IIRC: (HP = Torque x RPM / a constant), the HP figure comes out slightly lower when the torque curve is fat and flat.

    Engines that 'pull well' from low RPM have torque figures that are higher than the HP. When they are closely matched, the torque curve is more narrow and the engine may be 'peaky'.

    Sorry if this rambling doesn't make sense or terribly well explained, but it was a tough weekend......

    Steve

    Steve
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=2215
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweet Ken.

    Have you found a wholesaler for OE parts for VW? How much are those O2 sensors, out of curiosity? Or can you find a Bosch replacement?

    You mean we get to shop vicariously through you? Great, I was bummed that I won't be shopping for for quite a while.

    What's your price range? Sounds like about $20 grand or so? A little more or a little less? Does she like smallish cars? You could try an Outback Sport, a WRX Wagon, and a Legacy L or GT.

    Oh, if brakes are a priority, the Legacy L is the best deal if you want 4 discs with ABS. Those are around $17.2k! In a Camry you have to spring for an SE, which cost more and have that cheesy fake metal trim and a clunky shifter. Plus, just try finding a 5 speed with the optional ABS.

    Altima did poorly in side crash tests and may have suffered from a bit too much from Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn's knife.

    Accord is a lame duck, unless you wait for the new one. Even then you need to get the EX to get discs and ABS, and again it'll cost you more.

    Or get her the first Forester turbo or Blitzen. :-)

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - the Big 3 will lobby to get that killed. They'll do whatever it takes.

    I bet the PT Cruiser might even get cancelled if they pass those changes.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I have a simple solution to the CAFE rules...

    All SUVs, Vans, Pickups etc are required to meet the same CAFE rating unless:

    1) registered as commercial vehicle
    or
    2) they run on diesel

    This will cause people to reconsider huge SUVs unless they really need em. This would essentially weed out people who buy Trucks that don't have a use. Most businesses that buy em would just run em on diesel.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Makes sense to me. The loophole was originally designed for work trucks (i.e. commercial vehicles).

    -juice
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    It's about time!
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    According the the regulations, the WRX qualifies as a truck: "Has four-wheel or all-wheel drive." Subaru should currently, then, have no CAFE fears - just label everything they sell a "truck". LOL

    Ross
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I thought that a truck needed rear seats that foleded? So the WRX wagon would work, but not the sedan.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    He was referring to the list from that link, which had AWD/4WD as one criteria.

    -juice
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    I watched a rerun of the Sopranos last night. It was the episode where Paulie and Christopher get lost in the PINE BARRENS in south Jersey.
    I couldn't stop thinking of you and the rest of the east coast Crew tooling around the area.
    Sure hope you guys never run into the "big Russian" when you are out there!
    Ron
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ron, I loved watching that episode, it originally aired on a Sunday when we were in the Pine Barrens! scarry :)

    -mike
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    I'm surprised you didn't run into Paulie & Chris.
    =8^D
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    juice,

    My wife prefers smallish cars too, and our price range would be around $20K. However she's still not convinced it's worth trading in just because of O2 sensors. I'm trying to sway her decision.

    She even jokingly brought up a WRX wagon, but the only problem is that she would need it to be an automatic.

    My ideal set up would be her in a larger sedan, like a Legacy, and me in a WRX wagon 5-speed.

    It's tough -- we're trying to get rid of car payments now so we can afford our first house. With some of the highest home prices in the US, we need all the help we can get out here in the Bay Area.

    We've taken the day off so maybe I'll just swing by a Subaru dealer with her later. :-)

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I completely know how you feel. Coincidentally, you'll recall my wife paid some $220 just for the part for an O2 sensor replacement.

    It may take more than that. We had 5 visits in the last 18 months, and at $500-900 per visit that had to stop. Doesn't sound like yours is nearly as bad.

    No fair - you want to put her in the big car? he he he

    Honestly, though? House prices are absurdly high. I could not afford my own house if I were buying today, it has literally doubled in 3 years. I'm not sure I'd want to take the dive in this seller's market.

    -juice (happy to be 3 years into a fixed mortgage)
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