By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Ah well... Perhaps in 2012 there will be major changes such as a 5 speed AT, hybrid drive, or something significant enough to warrant getting a replacement for my '09, which has proved a good workaday vehicle but would be nicer if it was a little quieter and better finished inside.
Also, read about the new Land Rover compact due here in about 2 years. Ironic they are making this big model hype push so early, given their terrible reliability and limited dealer network. We only have one Land Rover dealer in Portland OR and they are downtown, very hard to access from the suburbs.
BTW, there's apparently a rattle fix for 2009-10 foresters that has to do with the side curtain air bag brackets rattling, Those hearing clunks from the back of their foresters might want to have their dealers check that area out.
The new engine was a surprise to all of us. I expected the CVT now, DI later. I cannot complain, though, with more torque sooner, same power soonre, and better MPGs.
Still - imagine combining that and the CVT...
No CVT or 5 speed auto for 2011, though. Perhaps in 2012 - otherwise the competition will be way out in front of Subaru wrt power trains by then.
To sell a $28K car with a 4 spd auto? Shame on Subaru.
There may be production constraints for both transmissions. My 2010 XT really gets along just fine with the 4-speed, but the normally aspirated model seemed to need more ratios. Since the 4-speed is also used in the Japan-manufactured Impreza, there may be some economies in continuing that trans in the Forester. I chose my XT for several reasons over the Outback 3.6R, but a several thousand dollar savings did not hurt.
• The 4-cylinder RAV4 (a direct competitor to the Forester) still gets by with a 4-speed automatic.
• 2WD Kia Sportage has a 4-speed automatic.
The funny thing is, having a 4-speed automatic doesn't seem to be hurting Subaru sales that much, as the cars are flying off dealer lots.
Bob
Where XT falls down is top gear high speed interstate cruising.
For Oregon with 65 mph max, the XT's max revs are around 2200: not too loud for a long trip.
But in California, where drivers routinely go 75 mph or much higher, the XT would be pulling at least 3000 revs, which is pretty darn high. XT would not be a good choice for the I-5 through CA's central valley.
By comparison, my long gone Malibu Maxx would , at 75 mph, be turning 2200 rpm or so. It also used a 4 speed but like Subaru put the torque converter to good use spanning the ratios.
As for the lower powered X, it became obvious it had little passing power and could use another transmission gear.
In some ways, I feel like Subaru is taking advantage of those of us who are Subaru fans
I guess I can understand a 4 spd in a "base" model but not in a top trip Forrester.
Anyway, just my opinion. I don't want to see Subaru go the way of GM or Chrysler.
I guess with a 5 or 6 speed automatic it could probably go a little taller top gear, maybe 2500 rpm at 75. 2000 or below, I just can't see that at all.
I do think that Subaru's 2.5L turbo is a huge hit and has brought them an army of loyal consumers who currently seem not to notice what seems to be industry low mpg and base model horsepower (compared against like vehicles-- not bigger/smaller vehicles or luxo brands).
In the 2.5 years I have owned my XT in Oregon I have seen 3 other XT's .vs. everyday sightings of X models.
Ok, so it's not the engine.
...and given the Forester XT turbo engine's a de-tuned STI engine, perhaps future Forester XT's might actually get a 5 speed auto.
Could this be an all new trans? Or something from earlier Toyota Avalon?
Also, this STI automatic has been on sale in Japan and Singapore for some time now; it's just new to Australia and New Zealand.
Bob
So why has it not been introduced here? CAFE?.
Bob
We are so spoiled, no?
I drove the Forester from Recife to Joao Pessoa and back, about an hour each way, and it did OK, but on long uphills the 2.0 really labors to pull all that weight. We had 5 plus luggage in the car, so you can imagine. It would usually need 3rd, in rare cases 2nd gear. It took longer to pass big trucks creeping up the hills, too.
That small engine could really have used more gears, but having driven both quite a bit and so close to each other, the 2.5l/4EAT is so, so much better that I cannot complain, in fact we missed it.
Colin: MItsu has a 168hp engine in this class, and I think the class leaders make 180hp or so, so the 175hp PZEV in ours is just about class average or even better, not really basement power.
Complaints? The 2.0l has much less torque. My sister-in-laws plays bumper cars a lot so there is damage on both front and rear bumpers. I think a rhino-bar option would be useful for her.
My brother has a CR-V, brand new, and the B-pillar cover is falling off, but otherwise the fit and finish is good. The door handle rubs me knees, that bothers me. Also, the rear hatch has a flat surface at the bottom that holds water, than it pours on you when you lift the hatch. Stupid, stupid design, Honda.
I have only been a passenger in the CR-V but I will share impressions when I get a chance to drive it. So far it is just a lot less car-like, more trucky, so it bounces aruond more on these huge potholes. I do like the armrests, though.
We averaged almost 30mpg overall with the AC working overtime during very hot sunny weather all the time. Our highway mileage was even better with our highway speed close to the 130km (80mph) speed limit which I thought was pretty impressive for a vehicle of its size. I was surprised that it seemed to lug a bit at low revs and 4-6th were very closely grouped and I have to wonder if the highway miles could have been even better with a longer 6th gear. Overall, though that may have been the compromises needed to get such a small engine capably power such a large vehicle. It came with a nav which was a little difficult to use but did really help on a couple of locations, especially the last day when an accident closed the peripheral road in Paris forcing us into a city road detour. It is a shame that consumers wont support vehicles like that here, as they would be a great option for folks like us looking for space and fuel economy.
Driving was very interesting in multiple small towns that the secondary highways go through, never mind when we were driving around in their side streets. I wish I had a Euro for every time Dra said, ‘We wont fit through there’. It was also a little crazy weaving around all these very skinny, winding rural roads which had 90km speed limits. Anytime I heeded her requests to slow down would soon see a line of cars behind us with the leader inches from our rear bumper.
In the end though I actually had a lot of fun driving there and am now an experienced Roundabout veteran.
Lanes and parking spots are so narrow that the guy who owns a Ford Explorer has to park it outside, on the street. It simply won't fit in most parking spots.
The Espace is deemed to big (!) for Brazil, so they sell the Megane Scenic, a smaller vanlet/tall wagon thing.
Chevy sells the Zafira (Subaru Traviq in Japan) and an even smaller Meriva. Think of it as a taller, boxier Honda Fit. Positively tiny cars outside, but very good space efficiency.
This is precisely my gripe with the Tribeca, when compared to the tiny Honda Fit. The 2009 Honda Fit is a marvel of packaging efficiency and the amount of space inside (nearly as much as a small mid-size car) is just amazing, considering the pint sized exterior size.
The Tribeca on the other hand is very poorly packaged inside, when compared to the significantly larger exterior (vis-a-vis the tiny Honda Fit). When compared to its exterior size, the space inside the Tribeca is nothing to write home about. This is an area where Subaru should work on a lot, to make the Tribeca more appealing to the highly profitable "7-seater cross-over" market segment and one does not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out why the Tribeca's sales are so dismal.
I think I've narrowed down my choices of something to replace my STI:
1. Infiniti G37x
2. Audi A4
3. Hyundai Genesis Sedan
4. Legacy 3.6R Limited
Each car has it's advantages and disadvantages, and I'm not even sure I'm willing to let go of my STI for any of these. I'm looking for something a little nicer and more comfortable while still being fun to drive.
What do you guys think? Anything else I should look at?
tom
I would not mind if my wife bought a Genesis, for the sheer comfort factor, but I can't imagine one as my primary car.
We'll do Disney and all that, but I wanted to include a drive through the Keys and other sight-seeing/fun stuff. I was considering an itinerary that looked something like this:
Orlando - Ft. Lauderdale - Miami - Key Largo - Key West
Any must-sees for those who have been?
We'll be in Orlando for maybe 2 weeks, can anyone recommend a condo rental broker/agent? It's a long time to stay at a hotel.
What are your priorities? On paper I'm a similar-minded buyer since I'm getting out of my Evo, but you've listed four cars that are pretty different.. although all of them are nicer inside than a STi, particularly the first three.
Here's what I want:
- Don't care if it is RWD, FWD or AWD. The era of DSC, traction control and very competent all-season tires means anything can get around acceptably in a Kansas winter. (In a blizzard, stay home.)
- Don't want a backseat smaller than my Evo. Which is actually fairly large for a compact sedan. (Example that won't work: IS350.)
- Want a competent automatic because my fiance can't drive a stick, and I'm honestly tired of it. 5 speed slushbox barely qualifies, 6 is nice, dual-clutch sequentials are sweeeet.
- Speed is neat, but not required. Looks like maybe you agree since the A4 and 3.6R are not that fast.
- Better MPG would be nice since I drive 16k per year, but my current average of 21 combined is tolerable.
- Entry-lux would be nice. My boss is a C-title and some of the people I go to lunch with are as well. (Of course, my boss drives an Accord with cloth!
Maybe we're both in the same boat. As much as I like my STI, I'm tired of hearing all the rattles and vibrations on my daily commute on WA rough highways. I also was looking at something nicer to spend time in- even a little wood trim would be nice!
I need a sedan or wagon with a back seat big enough for my teenage boys, and enough cargo space for his Cello!
I don't want anything flashy or trendy if I can help it, hence no BMW on my list.
I would like something reasonably entertaining to drive, auto since I get stuck in traffic and my wife doesn't drive stick. I don't need eyeball sucking speed (but I don't think I could drive something too slow!
I occasionally have to drive up and down hills in Seattle on the few days a year it snows, so AWD would be nice. According to Edmunds, the Genesis does pretty well in the snow.
Did you have anything else on your list?
I've driven everything but the 3.6R (dealer didn't have any) and they are all nice cars, not a loser in the bunch and all priced within a few thousand of each other.
Tough choice. . .
tom
Can you fit me into the luggage? I've always wanted to drive the Florida Keys. The literature of the hurricanes on the keys and the construction of the rail then road along it fascinated me as a youth.
Henry Flagler's Overseas Railway seemed an improbably grandiose scheme. I think it was described as Flagler's Folly and was destroyed in the 1935 Hurricane. The road bed and remaining bridges were acquired from the bankrupt company by the State of Florida and formed the basis of the Overseas Highway. Its one of those grandiose schemes that was weird even before it started. My recollection is that he hoped to make a killing from being the nearest US deep-water port to the Panama Canal.
Have a read of the history before you head down there. I keep thinking that there is a story I read as a teenager of the Labour Day Hurricane of 1935, but cannot think what. Not Hemingway, but that sort of flavour.
Enjoy the trip. If things get really bad with the family, you could take them to the Everglades and introduce them to Alligators. By the way, a 6.5m (21' 6") Crocodile has been shot here in Australia, after becoming a nuisance. Took two prime movers to drag him out of his water holes. Locals are complaining that they would have preferred it if the hunters had killed the bigger ones nearby. I suspect oneupmanship.
Cheers
Graham
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~schuckwj/flrda/05%20SvnMleBrdg.jp- g
Look at the left side of that span, there's a break, why?
Go to floridastateparks.org and click on things to do. Then pick your favorite activity. Best part is that they are reasonably priced.
As for homes, google florida villas and you'll see plenty of companies that cater to Europeans that like to rent homes in Florida for their holidays. Note that July and August tend to be pricey as that is when the Euros travel.
http://www.sanibelisland.com/
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=Sanibel+Island&oe=UTF-8&um=1&- ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Sanibel+Island,+Sanibel,+FL+33957&gl=us&ei=Od5aTNOjC8OC8gadqp- GLAg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ8gEwAA
Bob
Did you collect lots of shells?
Bob
True Lies, anyone? :P
I'm looking at several certified pre-owned cars to avoid some of the worst depreciation. I'm also considering a 2011 VW TDI -- want to see the new Jetta in person before I try to decide between that and a Golf. Also the Audi A3 TDI is only a little more expensive than the Golf (unless you go wild on the options), so I might consider that as well. Probably a long shot though as there is presently no Audi dealership in Wichita. (A city of 400k... Not sure what happened, but there has to be a story. There was a dealership within the past few years.)
I'm intrigued by the new Sonata turbo, but Hyundais are the very definition of depreciation, unfortunately. I think they are great cars today-- improving by leaps and bounds-- but they still take a huge hit on resale, and maybe some of that is the the non-transferrable warranty, even though the 'remaining' 5yr/60k is still competitive. (Compare to VW!
I like the A4 as well, but it can get pricey compared to alternatives that make a lot more horsepower.
I shopped the G37 and the engine impressed, but honestly a lot of other things really didn't. I like it better than the G35, but it's still not for me.
Sadly, I didn't bother driving any Subarus. I don't like the looks of the current Legacy. The 2.5 turbo is manual-only anyway, and everyone says the power and mpg of the 3.6R are pretty disappointing. (I realize this isn't an entirely fair statement since I didn't drive it, but I go back to looks. :P)
I wish some other turbodiesels were available. BMW definitely got the market all wrong. They need a competent turbodiesel closer to the base model price instead of at the 335 level. And I can't buy a new BMW anyway because I hate the interiors and am not real fond of the outside, either. A new 3-series looks very much like my 1995 M3 did inside. BMW calls it 'tradition' ... I call it dated.
Sit in a Genesis with the leather package and I swear it looks (and feels, and *is*) nicer in some places. Hyundai uses real cowhide on the dash.
Yeah, but they're Korean cows, which are inherently inferior.
That photo is significant as the little island is Pigeon Key, which was originally the construction camp for the Flagler Railway. Supposedly up to 400 men lived on it at some time. Must have been a bit cramped. The island is now a museum
http://www.pigeonkey.net/home.html
Isn't the Internet wonderful for ferreting out stories that one reecalls from long ago.
Cheers
Graham
While the Florida Keys sound great, it makes for a long driving trip.... and, there is only one way out... so, it's the same trip on the way back.... Younger kids might be very, very bored, overall...
Sanibel Island, near Ft Myers is a very cool place... You could do worse than plopping down there for a week, if you like to get back to nature...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Thanks for your thoughts- I think there is no perfect answer- many of these cars would be just fine.
I did drive the A3 TDI- nice car, nimble handling, the diesel is quiet with lots of pickup at low speeds. Passing at freeway speeds is a little slow- but adequate. The car is pretty small but even the backseat is livable if you're average height. The one I test drove was loaded and stickered at $38k! I guess if there is no Audi dealer nearby it will be a little hard to drive one.
I recently drove the G37x and really liked it. It seemed well planted, the engine was powerful and smooth, and the interior and fit and finish was a definite step above the Legacy (my SVX is a lot better put together than these new Subies!). I've seen quite a few 1-2 year old low mileage ones for about $30-33k (asking price). The salesperson told me sales are still slow- so I hope they're willing to negotiate.
tom
This will ring a bell with a lot of parents.
Bob
Then we have the parents, all around 40 or so.
Then grandma, who is turning 70 and the inspiration for the whole trip.
Being in the car is OK because grandma will be using a cane/wheelchair the whole time, so I'm sure she'll enjoy the sightseeing from a seated position.
Pretty cool.
Bob
Overhyped in that article, if not in general? That would be my vote... I particularly enjoyed the line about Mini creating some of the best handling vehicles on the planet. Pass the koolaide!
* just 4 seats? That hurt Baja sales, if you recall.
* 3,042 lbs and it's the size of a Versa? Base Foresters are 3080 lbs.
Sales will be limited by the 4 seats, IMHO.
IMHO a huge win for Toyota, but it still hasn't quieted the haters.