Subaru Crew Cafe

frankmac

Hi guys-
I have been Subaru exclusive for the last 20 years or so... but I recently moved off the hill I lived in, and my new place has a smaller garage. I have 2 Foresters in it at the moment, but I was thinking of getting an Outback... making the tight space even tighter. I was thinking of getting a small fwd wagon for a second car... You know Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta, Nissan Versa... etc etc etc... Do you guys have any cars you would suggest I look at strongly, or perhaps think about avoiding in this type of situation...

Thanks in advance
Frank

ateixeira

I've driven the Fiesta, and liked it. Haven't tried the others you list.

Newbies to the segment include the Direct-injected Accent and Rio and the Chevy Sonic, those 3 offer class leading power (138hp).

Personally, I'm not sure I'd go any smaller than an Impreza hatch. You should at least take a peek at those, even if they're not much smaller than a Forester. 27/36 mpg now.

xwesx

I tried out the Mazda2 a couple weeks ago. It had good seating position for the driver/passenger, and rear leg room was fantastic, but the roof height in the rear was terrible - children (or short adults) only!

dimensions, though, were great. I'd consider test driving one if the local dealership ever gets a manual in stock. :sick:

I still haven't made it over to the Ford dealership to check out the Fiesta or Focus, though they do have the Fiesta in stock (finally) and even have a manual Focus for the time being....

ateixeira

Mazda just launched a Mazda3 hatch with the SkyActiv engine. Costs a bit more but 155hp and still 40mpg.

frankmac

thanks for the advice so far... It looks like I have a bunch to choose from. I would use the small car for around town (I live in rural PA so not much traffic). I will look at an Impreza but it is a foot longer and wider than these mini-wagons (and 500 lbs heavier)...
Heck I saw my first new Fiat the other day... I hadn't seen one in a long long time I looked them up on the web and they aren't sold my dealers... but Salon's...

(Yikes)

Frank

ateixeira

Rural PA? Then why get a city car?

Keep in mind the 2012 Impreza returns 36mpg highway.

So say you compromise and get a 40mpg econobox. At 12,000 highway miles per year, you use 33 gallons less fuel, or about $8 a month. Not really significant. Skip Starbucks twice a month, and you come out ahead.

A Mazda3 or Impreza will have a more solid ride than the littler cars. My mom has a Fit, I helped her pay for it, don't get me wrong. But I go from that to my brother's Civic, and it was like riding in a limo. The more substantial cars fare a lot better on the highway.

I get what you mean, because I like small cars. I have a Miata, and I hate commuting in my Sienna because it's so big and lumbering compared to what I'm used to. Out on the highway at high speeds, though, the Sienna crushes the Miata.

And rural PA? I don't think your environment calls for a city car like mine does.

fibber2

Hard to believe that they would not just drop the Grand Caravan, but also propose repositioning the T&C as a cross-over? What are they thinking?

ateixeira

CRAZY talk, what are they thinking?

Durango already serves that niche.

Go smaller and the Journey serves that niche. And it doesn't sell well.

How STUPID to try to squeeze the Grand Caravan in between. They have seriously lost their minds!

robr2

The GC and Avenger will be replaced by a crossover expected for 2013. The Journey is scheduled for replacement at that time. I could see this new crossover replacing all 3.

The T&C will still be available - Marchionne said that since the GC and T&C are sold side by side, people know they are the same. I wouldn't be suprised to see a lower end T&C introduced.

Dodge is to become their sportier line. I could see the ladder as follows:

Hornet compact
200C midsize family
Caravan crossover
T&C minivan
Charger full size
300C full size luxury
Durango large SUV

xwesx

I guess I haven't been keeping up with Chrysler at all. I didn't even know they had a 200C.

ateixeira

Sebring got a face-lift and a new name. The Pentastar V6 is new, but the platform needs a full redesign.

robr2

I guess I haven't been keeping up with Chrysler at all. I didn't even know they had a 200C.

Are you picking nits???

Sorry - it's just a Chrysler 200. No C.

rsholland

My understanding is the T&C will remain, and that the Grand Caravan (and Journey) will be combined/replaced with a Fiat entry.

Bob

fibber2

Sounds like we all read/heard the same blurb, but drew different conclusions. At first I too thought that the GC would go away, and the T&C offerings would expand to cover the full $20k-$50k range. But then in a followup, it sounded like the T&C was also being repositioned to be more of a crossover than a minivan.

Signed,

Confused in NY

ateixeira

Bet it will be the Doblo - perhaps the ugliest vehicle on the planet. Hope the new one looks (much) better.

robr2

Actually, the Doblo is coming to America as a Ram product to compete against the Transit Connect.

ateixeira

So which Fiat will they use for the crossover? Aren't the others much smaller?

robr2

According to this insideline article:

http://www.insideline.com/chrysler/chrysler-rebuilds-its-future-with-fiats-help.- html

Chrylser and Fiat are working together on a platform to underpin the new 200 and "a midsize "lifestyle" vehicle, as well as a wagon-like light commercial vehicle that is likely to have greater appeal in Europe than North America."

ateixeira

Translation: it will be narrow and car-based, with smaller engines.

xwesx

Are you picking nits???

Sorry - it's just a Chrysler 200. No C.

Hahah! No, I wasn't! I really haven't been keeping up with them! So, if it was a "C" or not, I wouldn't have known the difference. Sheesh; the one time in my life when I was being serious.... :P

xwesx

Bob, shoot me an email so I can send you some Mazda SkyActiv information. You might have it already. I received it from a salesman after my last visit (when I looked at the Mazda2 and the Rio5) - it looks to be an info sheet for their sales staff, but it's fairly informative as far as the SkyActiv technologies go.

ateixeira

If it's going in a Miata, send it to me instead. :P

rsholland

Do I have your email?

Bob

rsholland

In the process of updating my iPhone 4 to the new iOS 5. 6 minutes to go. Should be interesting.

Also, trying to convince my wife to get a new iPhone 3GS. The damn thing is free—and she's balking... Unbelievable.

Bob

robr2

Translation: it will be narrow

A platform can be stretched or widened. I'm sure Fiat is smart enough to know a narrow crossover won't fly here.

and car-based

It is a crossover after all. My new Explorer is car based.

with smaller engines

Just like everyone else is going to. I had an Ecoboost Explorer all last week as a rental - I have to say it worked just fine and returned about 22 mpg in the city.

fibber2

As you know, the 'free' phone is just the beginning. Love my iPhone4, hate paying $30 per month for 3G access. That is why my wife insists on staying with her simple phone but also carries an iPod touch 4 for everything else.

ateixeira

Let's see how they tweak it, the needs are different, but many global cars work just fine (Fiesta, Focus).

Ford should offer the EcoBoost with AWD. They're missing out on a lot of customers by not offering that.

ladywclass

My husband and I were returning home after eating out one evening. It was about dusk. There was a car in the next lane and a bit ahead of us, and I wasn't sure what it was. I said, "Is that a Chrysler 300?" The back was sort of boxy in the same way, but the taillights looked different. We tried to get a little closer to take a look. He said, "Maybe it's the 200 ....". It took awhile, but we finally got up a little closer .. and about that time we both saw the emblem that from a distance looked a 'bit' like a chrysler ... it had a "B" in the middle .. it was a BENTLEY ... lol
We both felt a little foolish but it's not EVERY day you see a BENTLEY !

xwesx

Er...

I was thinking it would show up through my user ID on Edmunds, but, now that I take a moment to think about it, perhaps it only shows up for me because I'm, well, me.

fairbankswes -at- netscape.net should get it to me. If not, let me know and I'll give you a direct one I use.

KCRam

The Grand Caravan replacement will still be built on the minivan platform, so it will still be fairly large. Think crossover version of the Magnum wagon. The next generation Dodge Journey will be a little smaller than it is now (currently built on the Avenger/200 platform). Th new Journey will be on the new compact platform that will create the new Dodge compact that will introduce in January. The compact is expected to be just as roomy as the Avenger, along the lines of the revised Jetta.

Remember, Ford replaced their (troubled) minivan with the Flex, so this is not a groundbreaking decision.

The reason Chrysler is willing to drop the Avenger is the two cars around it are better. The Charger V6/8-speed gets better mileage than the Avenger with the same engine (19/31 vs 19/29), so why sell the smaller car when the roomier one gets better mileage (and makes more money for the company)? Similarly, the new compact will offer 470 mpg with the 4-cylinder, far better than the Avenger I-4... and with decent rear seat room, there's no need for the Avenger I-4 either.

The Chrysler nameplate will be 300, 200, and T&C.

The Dodge nameplate will be Charger, Challenger, Durango, Caravan/Avenger CUV replacement, next-gen Journey, new compact, and Viper.

kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host

xwesx

My goodness, 470 MPG!?! I'm putting that to the top of my list! I don't car about looks, comfort, or transmission type any longer! :P

Of course I jest, though I am curious about what you meant to say there. I can't see myself buying a Chrysler product, but I suppose it is possible. I have no serious complaints about the (used) '98 DGC I owned.

KCRam

Just 40... fat finger on the numpad

kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host

volkov

Isn't the Viper being discontinued? I was sure I read that somewhere.

KCRam

Viper took an extended break... last one was built in 2010, scheduled to return as a 2013. Only question right now is the engine... the most credible "rumor" is a V10 version of the 6.4L Hemi, which would be 496cid/8.1L.

kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host

rsholland

All for naught. The free iPhone 3 GS deal is only for those who use ATT. We're on Verizon.

The $30 (or whatever $$) data fee is with any smartphone, not just the iPhone.

Bob

fibber2

Right, and it is getting tougher than ever as Verizon is carrying next to nothing in sliding keyboard basic phones these days like her LG Env3. The replacement got mixed reviews, and it's the only choice. So she's on year 3 with that phone, and carries a wifi ipod for data.

I do like having 3G for occasional use, but to be honest, I find myself on a wifi connection most of the time with my iphone anyhow. Comcast (Xfinity) has plenty of free access antennas in many of the villages even up here in the middle of nowhere.

lilbluewgn02

Dan Wheldon was killed today at the Indycar race in Las Vegas; he was 33 years old. 15 cars were involved with Wheldon and Will Power going airborne. A real mess and it was on the 13th lap. The race was stopped.

rsholland

A horrific tragedy. RIP Dan.

Bob

ateixeira

Unbelievable crash, RIP Dan.

Just watched the movie Senna the other day, too. Great film, also sad, of course.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/01/yes-porsche-design-has-made-its-own-blackberr- y/



$2 grand, ouch. I have the 9900 model, specs seem similar, also 1.2 GHz processor and Liquid Graphics.

The 9900 is $300 with a 2 year contract, probably about $600 or so without, so that means the Porsche costs more than triple. Seems about the same as with their cars.

rsholland

http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=43&item=283

Note that they broke out the WRX sales, now that is considered a model unto itself. Dec. Impreza sales up 86.68%!

Bob

ateixeira

WRX was also up 66%, and that's the old body style.

Conspiracy theory - as other manuals disappear, enthusiasts have fewer choices, WRX among the best.

xwesx

Not that it won't see significant gains in 2012, but that Dec over Dec number of 86.68% represents a significant bottleneck starting to clear, with production of the '12 model finally reaching most of those pre-order customers. I will be shocked if the Dec 12 numbers are not a fair bit lower than the Dec 11 number.

colin_l

I will be shocked if the Dec 12 numbers are not a fair bit lower than the Dec 11 number.

That's a long time to wait... we can test your theory sooner by looking at Jan and Feb 2012 compared to 2011.

xwesx

That won't make the same comparison because we'll still be talking about old model vs. new. I'm saying that the Dec 11 numbers would be higher than Dec 10 due to new model, but not by nearly as much had it not been for months of bottleneck due to delays in the new model's release.

ateixeira

Forester sales dipped a bit so dealers must be trying to stock the more fuel efficient newbie. Either that or SoA told Japan they need more to meet CAFE numbers.

pathtomax

I purchased my third Subaru 7 months ago- 2008 Subaru Outback 3.0 LL Bean. Fully loaded, my first 'big boy' Subaru with all the options. June and July were great months of motoring. 36,000 miles, purchased the extended warranty and it was Certified Pre-Owned.

I started hearing a rattling when accelerating around the beginning of August. They fixed replaced the steering pump..no help. Then, I started to get a shudder/vibration when accelerating, along with the rattle in October. I handed them all the TSBs for this issue and they told me the car is running at 100%.

Very long stories short- they have replaced the steering pump twice, one of my mufflers and told me the transmission is at 100%. It vibrates even worse now.

I opened a case with SOA at the beginning of Nov. The dealership took my car for a week for 'extensive testing' and found nothing. I get the car back around Thanksgiving- shudder and rattle still there. I brought to a different dealership and they noticed ALL my concerns BUT Subaru WILL NOT REPAIR until their Field Tech drives it.

I have been waiting 6+ weeks for this field tech to drive it as he is too busy with a Forester Recall.

The case with Subaru is still open. They now won't return my calls or emails. My local dealership tells me to be patient.

The issues have lasted 5+ months and the case is 6 weeks old. I LOVE SUBARU as a company and love my 3RD Subaru.

Really, what more can I do than just wait?

Thanks for reading.

ateixeira

That really sucks. Can/have you ask the dealer to provide a loaner until the field tech can come? Tell them you don't feel safe driving it, not to mention even if it was you'd get unusual tire wear and ruin $800 worth of tires.

The person I know at SoA is on extended leave...

fibber2

"they noticed ALL my concerns BUT Subaru WILL NOT REPAIR until their Field Tech drives it."

Did they share with you their diagnosis of the problem, and what their course of action would be if they get permission to proceed?

pathtomax

@fibber2- they stopped short of a diagnosis. Because the extended warranty that I purchased is from a different dealership, my new dealership was not 'allowed' to dig in totally until SOA advises them. The first dealership could NOT replicate the problem after 6 tries. The new dealership replicated it in 10 minutes. (I say new but I used them in the past for my other Subies. They just didn't have the right used cars when I was looking). But, the new dealership 'thinks it is a transmission issue'. Again, not confirmed though.

@ateixeira- SOA told me that they would advice the dealership to give me a loaner. Now, when I call them on it, they won't return my calls or emails.