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Comments
So lets go back to my statement - I didn't say today, I said this ISO standard was to deal with electronics as they may be 1-2 generations out. Today's engine management is child's play stuff. The power of an 80286 fed by a limited instruction set in firmware. 20-30 distributed processors all around the car doing their own thing. I don't make this stuff up. I'm just reporting what we see and how it will probably be. WE ARE IN CHARGE!!!!!
Take a look at a high end 2012 model for just a taste of what's coming - lane departure steering bump, radar cruise, auto braking, heads up displays, multi-zone auto climate control, i-drive & button-less radio & climate, auto-everything. Now put that all under one central computer. Cannot boot fast enough when you have to load that much code? Maybe an ECM like you have today to handle starting, then pass control over to the central system. Or, you just start running pure electric for the few seconds until the central CPU is ready. Just conjecture, but all within the realm of possibility.
Seen some of the draft OBD-III stuff? How about shutdown commands sent by police cars, or the EPA if you don't address that CEL within 48 hrs? Insurance companies are asking for vehicle speed monitoring. Red light cams won't just photograph your car, they'll electronically tag it. Colin, you're not going to want to part with your old wheels!!
Why? Change has a cost, but ultimately mfgrs see much of this as being cheaper in the long run, and a way of achieving performance with high MPG. Safety features have proven to be pretty strong selling points.
And yes, I have seen some stuff that's, well, scary-cool ==> with a high factor of both the scary and cool. Cool if it has the power to save lives. Scary that Big Brother is so in charge and you cannot do much about it.
In reliability statistics, a process running at 99.999 would be considered a slightly better than 4 sigma process. Think bell curve. 4 standard deviations from the mean would seem to be pretty good as we are down in the tail of the distribution. But that translates to something like 60 defects per million. And that's per process, and a car is many processes combined. And the more complex systems we add, the more the chance of trouble. A six sigma process is considered ideal - with a 3.4 defects per million failure rate. We strive for that, but few actually achieve 6 sigma nirvana.
http://e-technologymanagement.com/tm/articles/what_is_six_sigma.pdf
BTW, I'm a "Lean Six-Sigma" graduate. Major PITA, but the basic principles are sound.
This paper from Delphi (quite good - I may show this at work) gets into what this all means for automotive electronics design. They show some models for predicting system level reliability based on component/subassembly reliability.
http://www.delphikrakow.pl/uploads/DFSS_Seminarium_Prezentacja.pdf
I met a girl from that sorority once, she could party with the best of them!
I have to wonder if the stalling (sometimes doing so while driving, which results in bucking until the engine restarts) is related to a clogged tailpipe issue a few weeks ago. We had a snowstorm that dumped about 16" on us, and shortly afterward I noticed some performance issues (the car was sluggish, mostly). I'm not sure why I even thought to look, but I checked the tail pipe and it was chalk full of ice! I mean, there was essentially no exhaust whatsoever. I don't even know how it was able run. I managed to clear the pipe using one of those corkscrew style dog tethering posts (yeah, I just happened to have one in the car and it fit perfectly into the tailpipe). I swear the car breathed a massive sigh of relief when I pulled the plug!
So, I did a compression test on it last night. The results came back at 150-162 PSI. My book claims that they should be 164-200. While they were fairly consistent, they were definitely low. What's more, they all four took about four cranks to reach max pressure. In reading, that may be an indication of worn rings, which would be supported by the crankcase pressurization issue. It is starting to sound like a weekend overhaul is on the near horizon. Damn car, anyway.
I'll do a leak down test next.
The Matrix and Lancer don't even offer the performance to make the trade-off worthwhile.
If they at least categorized the least efficient cars for a given level of performance...but nope.
Next week: STI vs. Prius vs. used Hummer.
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/2466/75-percent-of-toyota-prius-owners-wouldnt-buy-a- gain-report
:shades:
Hybrids tend to be smallish cars, as needs change there are fewer choices, and big hybrids are uber-expensive (go price a Highlander Hybrid).
Or - people tire of driving slow cars.
Prius is certainly not a small car. Passenger room is much bigger inside the second row than the Camry - one of the main reasons we chose it. It actually reminded me of that very roomy feel to the new Forester first time I sat in it, and comfortably seats 3 teenage boys in snow boots.
We get excellent mileage, but not the published numbers because the hybrid drivetrain is more susceptible to efficiency degradation from short trips in cold weather which is the nature of her driving. It still nets the best fuel efficiency we have ever had, including our old Tercel and Civic. WE didn't buy expecting it to save us $$ - it was more an emotional one for Sandra. She found it cool and high tech, and felt good about not killing the polar bears. I know she would certainly buy again.
If she wants a minivan next time around - it can't be a hybrid, because no ones sells one here. Just an example.
http://www.cadillac.com/xts-luxury-sedan.html?x=1#nav_tablay_item_c1_6_1
Bob
Lexus was criticized by CNET for the new interface, that mouse thing that slides around.
I think Lexus and Caddy have the biggest screens available - both 12.3".
We have an '08 Sienna as our long distance vehicle. The family still pines for the Odyssey.
I'm heavily favoring a midsize sedan, but haven't completely ruled out a wagon yet. I want a v6 or turbo 4, and the VW/Audi TDI models are still on the table but I don't value too highly based on our annual mileage. My wife and I carpool 4-5 days a week, and we put under 16,000 miles per year on both our vehicles combined.
Priorities-
- Automatic: slushbox ok, CVT better, auto-manual (DSG) best.
- Cost no more than $32k. Prefer under $30k.
- Bigger is better. I won't consider smaller sedans like the Impreza, Lexus IS, Ford Fusion, or hatchbacks. (Audi A3 is marginal. Everything smaller is too small.)
- Do not care about FWD, RWD, AWD. AWD does help the few days of the year we have epic snow and/or ice, but we would probably just drive the Suzuki (fulltime 4WD).
Sometime in the next week I will drive the Legacy and Outback H6 models, assuming the local dealer (singular) has them in stock. I'm not a huge fan of the styling. It's ok, but not great. The '05 Legacy looked a lot better. Subaru also barely makes the grade in terms of mpg and transmission with a 5 spd slushbox. I drove a 1st-gen Outback H6 a long time ago and it had tepid power... I think (hope!) the current engine has more grunt. I like the pricing of the Subarus for sure. I don't think I would need the top trim level as the only thing I'd value is the upgraded stereo.
Other cars on my shortlist so far:
- Passat v6 or TDI. Huge midsize car but didn't drive like a boat. Very quiet on the highway, v6 has ample power and the DSG is smooth. No doubt the top contender so far. TDI is amazing, but I'm concerned about fuel quality and fuel pump issues. Plus we don't drive enough miles for it to really matter. What does matter is having enough power to pass on 2-lane highways with a carload of people and luggage... and the TDI is lacking there.
- Used or CPO 2008-2010 Audi A4 Avant.. a lot of car for $25k-30k because they all have the turbo 4, AWD, 6spd slushbox. Low mileage examples available. The most handsome car, and good utility. Probably expensive to maintain long term but CPO will have 6yr/100k warranty.
- Mazda6s. I haven't driven yet, but the rear headroom looks questionable based on the roof shape. I drove the previous gen Mazda6 v6 and they drive well but weren't near the refinement of the new Passat. It looks like there is only one trim level of v6 and it has the kitchen sink for a good price.
I've already crossed GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota off the list. Are there any other cars I should be considering? Input on my list so far, especially if you own or have driven these?
Thanks.
~Colin
(I haven't owned a Subaru since 2002, but you guys have to put up with me anyway.
Have you considered Nissan Altima or Maxima?
It is, I bumped my head the first time getting, and it feels cozy inside, too.
Mazda is offering deals, though. I just got a quote for a Mazda3 SkyActiv 5 door for $17.6k. MSRP near $21k. :surprise:
Probably too small for you, though.
The new Altima hit 60mph in 7.1 seconds and still earns a 38mpg EPA highway number. Each is good on its own, combined that's amazing. You almost don't need the V6.
What about a Kia Optima SX (turbo)? Long warranty, low price.
Here are some links from the media site:
http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=13&cat=233&mode=gallery
http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=13&cat=234&mode=gallery
http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=13&cat=231&mode=gallery
http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=13&cat=230&mode=gallery
Bob
are the 2013 legacy and outback arriving in a few months? and I don't really care much about how revised the four cylinder is, unless there's a turbo.
hell, I'd buy a v8 sedan if they didn't cost a ton. :P
FWIW, they're already showing TV spots for the new '13 Legacy and Outback, so it won't be long.
Bob
Bob
The problem that I have with the Korean built cars is drive-ability. Not sure why but each time I have driven one I have found they require continual minor steering corrections. Drove a Hyundai from Mildura to Broken Hill (about200 miles of good bitumen through desert country) and back some years ago and it was very tiring
They are certainly a lot better screwed together than some years ago, but still some way to go
Cheers
Graham
The KIa optima is a hell of a car.
Pat.
I guess we all have to grow up sometime EH! Regarding Audi's while I would agree that they are some of the most desirable cars, reliabilty and Maintainance are ever present headaches with these cars. So long term ownership should be seriously considered. You like me tend to keep cars a long time.
Indeed most euro cars seem to have reliability issues after about 5 years, so with any of them extended warranty plans would be mandatory.
As well unlike the Japanese cars with the euro cars you are tied to the dealership for most parts and maintainance items with the associate premium prices.
This should be another consideration for you.
Cheers Pat.
I had 3 complaints:
* clutch/shifter not very good, even Kia's own Tucson was better
* numb steering on that base model, at least
* rear visibility backing up
Other than that I liked it. Even the base model felt peppy, and had bluetooth, and cost almost nothing.
I left feeling that it would be a better car with an automatic, since I didn't really like the shifter, and it's not sporty in a way that you'd even demand a manual.
My only concern with the turbo would be the steering. Of course coming from an Evo almost anything will feel numb.
http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/ad-day-subaru-141076
Bob
You can see it now for now right here, but I'm sure they will be removing it soon. I might post more pics later, but it's a meteor grey 2.0 TFSI with 6spd tiptronic, quattro and the premium package. It has 23,900 miles on it now and drives like it's brand new.
I got them to throw in the factory crossbars, which I need because I'll be putting bicycle roof rack on it. (Aftermarket rails & crossbars aren't near as good.) I observed 30mpg at 80mph driving home from KC. It turns 2500 rpm at 80, quite nice for a gas 4 cylinder.
It seems plenty fast for 211 horsepower, no doubt thanks to the 258lb-ft torque from 1500 to 4500 rpm. It's also nimble for being north of 3700 pounds. I could do without the massive amounts of brake dust from the brand-new* stock pads, but have nothing else that's close to a complaint. The transmission behaves radically different between drive and sport mode. It doesn't have paddle shifters, but I see no need because of how sport mode behaves.. it already shifts at redline, doesn't upshift if you lift throttle, and shifts more firmly.
*And yeah, it's weird. But the CPO qualification put new pads and rotors at all four corners. My Evo has the original rotors still with plenty of meat! I'll see if Juice's time-honored tradition of waxing the wheels helps with the dust, but if not I will eventually get some replacement pads.
Bob
How was the EVO over all those miles? Any regrets?
Of course, I'm already looking at an APR ECU. 40 horsepower and 60 lb-ft? Yes please?
The shot of the rear hatch shows the OE fabric mats, which apparently are junk because the driver's mat has 3 holes in it. And the carpet isn't worn through; these are more like tears. I'm glad they put the tough all-weather rubber mats in it.
It should've had a 6 speed manual; it turned well over 3000 rpm cruising on the highway, and bounced off the rev limiter in 5th at an indicated and gps-confirmed 160 mph.
I put an awesome stereo in the Evo after one month and gave up my spare tire for a subwoofer. But not once did I need a spare, not even a slow leak! No dealership will take it in trade without either a spare tire or runflats. That's ok because I will get a lot more selling it privately, anyway.
Today the only thing wrong with the car is that the aftermarket (Rostra, I believe) cruise control died like 3 years ago. That was less than $300 to install new, so even if it can't be fixed it's really not a big deal. I put oil and filters, and spark plugs in the thing, and had the timing belt changed at 90k miles. The HVAC blend door got stuck last year and I mentioned the compressor hose a few messages ago. I've never driven a car so reliable and I'll be sad to see it go.
BTW Juice, I still have that Lancer Evolution keychain you sent me years back.
I put the trunk floor panels from a first generation Mazda3 hatchback into my generation 2. the reason being the first generation had the underfloor storage ala Subaru.
However although the panels were a direct fit, Mazda saw fit to make the spare wheel well more shallow in the 2nd generation. They used a cheesy floor in the thing also. Upshot of my Mod. was I had to ditch the spare and get a kit made by slime.
The stuff if you do have to use it can stay for 2 years in the tire and can take care of puncture up to a quarter inch.
Congrats on the new car purchase I wish you health to enjoy it.
Cheers Pat.
Bob
I really haven't had a disablement flat since I was in college many moons ago. I ran over a sparkplug in my '85 Mazda RX-7 and it was sticking out of the very, very flat tire. The only other flat I've ever had was a slow leak in mid 2002 on my M3, which I found in the garage and threw on the fullsize spare for a week until a new tire came in. And I'm 36, so that's 2 flats in many years and many miles.
I learned today that the A4 has a strange DSG automatic transmission: it actually is a 6 speed sequential, but it doesn't have twin clutch discs-- it has a torque converter instead. It shifts smoother but still has that instant engine braking and you can feel a downshift too.
One of those was during our trip with his parents to his oldest son's college graduation!
Unfortunately flat tyres go in runs, most commonly when you have building works occurring near home or workplace... or somebody has it in for you.
For some mysterious reason, someone took against my car when I was tutoring at a college campus 25 years ago and I had a lengthy run of flats, all compliments of screws carefully hidden in the treads in darkness so I could not see them.
Then a long period of no flats and then another spell of incidents. Just recently had several staked with nails/screws as my office is near a building site
Cheers
Graham
I dig the telescoping steering wheel, which is the first I've owned. I have absurdly long arms and legs, but when I adjust the seat fore/aft to suit my legs, I still am not totally comfortable with the reach to the wheel. But that problem is now solved! (Next issue surely will be "wife keeps changing telescoping wheel distance."
I might have found a use for sport mode in the transmission-- getting through a busy intersection when you don't have the left turn arrow. Twice now I've had that awesome combination of turbocharger and automatic transmission lag... and twice I've gotten cleanly out of the path of oncoming traffic when suddenly 1st gear is selected and the engine is on full steam... whipping your head back. I've been in drive both times, but next time this comes up I'll select sport mode and see if it accelerates more predictably.
On a less serious, but slightly annoyed note.. the car definitely has cupholder deficiency. There are 2 center cupholders up front, one normal sized and one small. The small one is cute because it will hold a can of Red Bull, but you can't put a normal sized 12oz can or cup of coffee there. Then you have the cup holders located in the fold-down rear center console.. which are shallow (maybe 1.5" deep?) and grip the cup weakly.
I skimmed the manuals last night, reading a few sections entirely and only skipping outright the parts with features my vehicle lacks. That is the most robust manual I've read... Sheesh, Audi is thorough. I've learned that they recommend a load limit of 200 pounds for the roof rack, and that unlike the dual-clutch DSG in the VW sedans and wagons, this DSG with torque converter doesn't have maintenance every 30k miles.