Oil drain intervals

krzyss

I am personaly using Mobil 1 (5w30 or 0w30) in my both cars (97 Passat, 96 Neon) and I am changing oil between 5000 - 8000 miles, depending on driving. It has never been less than 2 changes per year, too.

Krzys

shipo

This is kind of funny, I used to change the oil on my 1995 VR6 Passat according to VW's recommedations until the warranty expired (using Mobil 1 of course), and then every 10,000 or so afterwards.

On my wife's 1995 Neon, since she used to drive it two miles each way to the Ferry, I used to change it every 6 months (Mobil 1 again), which worked out to every 4,000 miles or so.

Best Regards,
Shipo

joffficer

using Synthetic oil. It's worked out to about twice a year. I also use a good filter (AC delco Gold or Pure one). At 75k miles I use no oil between changes, and the oil is clean every drain.

artwis

I've been researching to see if I could stretch the oil change interval on my wifes new car by using Mobil 1. Well I went to the Mobil 1 website and they say follow the manufacturers change interval when using Mobil 1. I talked to my dealer service manager because they sell vehicles that come with Mobil 1 when new (not our car though). I was told that some customers are going 6000 miles with Mobil 1 but change the filter every 3000 and topping off the oil. If I follow Mobil 1's recommendation of change intervals as recommended by the manufacturer I would be just wasting money on Mobil 1. The wifes car has an oil monitor but I think I'll just do what I always have and change at 3000 with regular oil. This seems to be the emerging recommendation at the synthetic oil forum now.

Mr_Shiftright

Every 3,000 miles, regardless of car, driving conditions or oil, is what I do.

By using this low interval, as opposed to a change every 5,000, at the end of the year and/or 12,000 miles, I have squandered $53 per car.

armtdm

92 Camry, oil and filter every 7,500 regardless of time. Now at 143,000 miles
96 Mystique, once a year, filter at 6 months, 8-10,000/miles/yr now at 67,000 miles
97 Izusu Rodeo, oil and filter at 7,500 regardless of time, 73,000 miles
97 Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR-4, 5000 oil & filter miles regardless of time just changed it at one year in Jan, oil analysis was fine. 19,500 total miles
2000 Buick GSE, at 12,000 miles, filter at 6 months. (has indicator light but I simply reset it at 6000 miles and go another 6000 before the oil change). 21,000 total miles.

All use Amsoil 10W30 except the Mystigue which is the 0W30. Change interval depends on the driving done on each car, Buick lots of highway, 3000GT is a twin turbo toy, little mileage but went one year and analysis was great on same oil and filter. Also, live in moderate climate in Ric, VA which makes a huge diff. Went 15,000 on Camry once, didn't like analysis results. IMHO about 12,000 miles on my cars is when the build up of dirt and other wear metals gets too high and a change is needed.

andre1969

...but checking the spreadsheet I kept on my Intrepid, I see I've changed it 17 times since I've had it. I currently have about 62,200 miles on it, so that comes out to about 3658 mile intervals.

It's not burning or leaking anything yet, and the oil comes out in a smooth stream, no chunks or anything, so hopefully it'll be good for a few more miles ;-)

Mr_Shiftright

Well I should HOPE no chunks! lol!

mdey

I posted a monologue on the subject in another forum a while back. I'll be more brief.

Until a few years ago I changed every 5,000 using a Fram filter and Havoline oil. After 80k to 90k the cars started using oil (not horrible, but using) and power started to fall off.

I switched to Castrol, better filters (AC, Motorcraft, or Mopar depending on the car) and every 3,000 miles. I never add oil to a car anymore and power remains much closer to new even after 100,000 miles.

I am considering going to synthetic, a premium filter, and 6,000 intervals, but only on one of our cars because my wife drives it 100+ miles per day. I am weary of crawling under it every 6 weeks.

After reviewing many of the posts here and elsewhere, I think either method is sound.

mrdetailer

are the are the intervals that I use. Valve cover gasketts changed on 2 cars in the past 8 months. Both times the mechanics said the engine appearance was very clean.

I'll be honest. I don't like dirty oil. And that is about the distance it goes best before getting pretty black.

I will change earlier on conventional if I have exceeded the recommended time element for normal driving. In my case 7.5 months.

bobistheoilguy

I use a method that most don't. If I find myself running a lot of hwy miles, I'll stretch it to 12k (last oil change was 11,783 miles).

If its hot, lot of local driving, ac dusty and what ever else, I go 5 to 7k but usually no more.

Of course alot depends if I'm going to travel.

I find that oil changes can and do vary from driving conditions and driver conditions as well as car engines and types of oils being used.

I definatly wouldn't consider doing this drain intervals with standard conventional oils though.

bob

oh yeah, Dark/dirty looking oil, is a good sign it's working and keeping the engine clean. Not always does that mean your oil is bad.

mrdetailer

I know that may not be a bad sign that's why I said I don't like dirty oil.

But I changed my local commuter vehicle at 3000 miles and 7 months. The TBN on the oil analysis showed it had dropped to 3. Blackstone said that it was the right time to change. It was just starting to get really black.

I have a Subaru with Synthetic and 5,500 miles on it. I'm going to take a 1500 mile trip to Sedona AZ and back in a couple of weeks, and then change the oil. It's also a dark brown right now, but I don't feel any grit.

vwracer

On my race car I try to change it every 10 miles (30w Valvoline racing oil)

On my street legal VW dunebuggy I change it every 2500 miles (30W valvoline all climate)

on my 83 ford every 3000 miles.(10W30 Valvoline Max life)

On my new Ford F250 every 4000 miles (5w20 Motorcraft semi-synthetic)

I personally would never consider extended drains. Oil is TOO cheap to take a chance.

adc100

Thats almost always exactly my milage changes. Oil is to cheap, but my time is valuable. And personally I just can't bring myself to have others change it.

armtdm

If a resource does not need to be changed prior to it s uselife being used up why waste the resource.I sort of disagree with chanign oil at 3000 or 2500 or jsu tbecasue that is the weay it was done 10 years ago or 20 years ago and it worked back then. Much has changed. I started out not believing the claims of longer drains 10 years ago and gradually built up to longer drains with oil analysis. Now I trust the products and have no problem going longer, I know it works.

I feel that everyone should try that in lieu of blindly saying a specific interval and not accepting any other alternatives. Especailly when the Pennzoils of the world have billions to throw at misleading marketing techniques.

mdey

I think environmentalism can be just as blind a pursuit as blindly changing your oil at specific intervals because that's the way Dad did it.

A while back I looked at my logs for my cars and I noticed that the mileage on my cars drop off slightly towards the time that I usually change the oil. We're talking maybe .5 to 1 miles per gallon in the last couple of tanks before the oil change. I change oil and filter every 3,000 miles with dino.

Now follow my math here:

I take between one to two gallons of oil out of the car (my TrailBlazer holds 7 quarts, most cars hold 5 quarts), and turn it over to the recycler, where they ship it off to one of the utilities to use in electric generation (once or twice a year they convert a power generating plant in my state and use old oil to generate electricity for a day or two).

If I extend my drain interval to 4,000 miles, in 100,000 miles I've reduced my oil changes by 8 from 33 to 25, and use 8 to 16 gallons less oil.

Assuming in that last 1,000 miles between 3,000 and 4,000 miles I get 19 mpg instead of 20 mpg, here is the petroleum consumption results in 100,000 miles:

3,000 mile drain intervals (33 oil changes), 49.5 gallons of oil (assume 6 quarts per change), 5,000 gallons of fuel (assume 20 mpg): 5049.5 gallons of petroleum used, 49.5 gallons recycled.

4,000 mile drain intervals (25 oil changes), 37.5 gallons of oil (assume 6 quarts per change), 5,065.6 gallons of fuel (20 mpg for 75,000 miles, 19 mpg for 25,000 miles): 5,103 gallons of petroleum used, 37.5 gallons recycled.

Now about the demise of the car because you didn't change the oil often enough: what about all those car parts they can't recycle? Where do they go? In the landfill? If you can extend the life of a car by making it last longer, you can buy fewer cars; maybe one or time in a lifetime. That's good for your wallet, but it's also good for the environment: we use less steel, less rubber, less plastic (they use petroleum to make that), and there is less waste ending up in the landfill, particularly car stuff leaching chemicals into the groundwater.

alcan

Every 3,000 miles or 3 months. I live in a northern climate with about a 4 mile drive to work. My Taurus SHO with the very expensive to repair Yamaha engine currently has 196,000 miles and runs strong with no blowby or significant oil pressure drop when hot. This change interval is also required to maintain the extended warranty on my Buick (even have to fax receipts to them to prove maintenance). Besides, it gives me the opportunity to poke around under 'em and make sure all's ok.

csandste

4,000 mile intervals. I specify that the SuperTech oil filter be substituted for the standard Fram. IMHO this is a pretty good deal for SL/ILSAC 3 oil, far better than their $15.99 bulk oil Quaker State/Pennzoil special. Bottled oil is better than bulk, and Super Tech oil is Quaker State anyway.

Some of the Wal-Mart techs are undoubtedly boobs, but you can't convince me that the dealers have the brightest bulbs doing oil changes either. Unlike Jiffy Lube, I haven't found Wal-Mart techs pull the battery out of your car to try to sell you a new one.

My daughter's car is a Mercury Topaz with the real low tech Ford engine and about 150K on the odo. It burns a quart of oil about every 1200 miles. I usually let that go about 5K between changes.

swschrad

someplace or other, I think that fine purveyor of important news The Onion ( www.theonion.com for a good time ), the valuable advice was given that

Oil is a scarce and valuable resource. Drive until the oil is gone, and then add more.

if you want maximum life in your car, change more often.

brorjace

mdey, love that math! It's nice to see someone put some THOUGHT into environmentalism instead of some silly, knee-jerk emotional reactions. >:^D

I use Red Line oil which is awfully expensive. I justify this because my Honda Civic uses very little (1 quart in around 6-7,000 miles) and takes only 3.5 - 4.0 quarts at a change.

I also leave it in for 7,000 - 7,500 miles so I only end up changing my oil every 5 months.

I like changing the oil in my car ... but don't want to do it every other month since I put 17,000-18,000 on my car every year. Also, I REALLY don't like taking the oil back, etc ...

My (trip) highway driving at 80+mph and 4,500+ rpms, I think is hard on the oil so I won't go any further than 8,000 miles on this or any other stuff ... although I probably could. I've seen some serioudly abused Hondas that seem to run fine even at 80,000+ miles.

As Nigel ShiftRight said, I like to splurge and blow the extra $20 or so on my car each year.

--- Bror Jace

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe if I owned newer cars I would do it differntly but usually my cars have been both a bit old and a bit exotic. For some of my cars in the past, the engines alone were worth a small fortune, so I was very cautious indeed. Even now, on any of my cars, if I lose the engine I pretty much have to junk the car. What's an Alfa worth with a thrown rod? And who is going to foot the bill to rebuild a Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel (I can't even imagine the cost of that one).

mudflat

The ubiquitous "they" claim that the greatest engine wear occurs at startup because of oil draining from the cylinder walls and top end rotating parts while the engine isn't running.

If this is so, then the less a car is run and the more frequently one changes oil, the greater the engine wear. Hmmm.....

bobistheoilguy

That is a BS line when it comes to which clings better synth vs mineral for cold start ups.. As I pointed out about flow properties, gravity also effects them in the same way so nither actually protects better on start up EXCEPT.... the additives on the other hand, inparticularly the barrier lube. The zddp antiwear additives in oil will coat metal parts and helps provide dry starts. Where the problem is that while it is in this dry state, the zddp will not hold up long during it's inital start up because it can only withstand only so much extreme pressure. Again, I find alot of people mis queing on the synth base stock protects better than the mineral base stock argument.

my question to you all, which is more important to you....

longer drains and cleaner oil or
less wear on your engine ?

one of the other, it is obvious you are into both but which is more important out of those two.

adc100

allows a better affinity for synthetic molecules over conventional. This is why the wear and friction of a given synthetic will be less than a conventional oil of the same viscosity. Really has nothing to do with classical fluid flow/viscosity properties. Its a chemical thing. I don't have the resources I once did when working but I have a couple of Exxon "Technograms" around from the mid 90's. I'd be happy to send out.

armtdm

Well, I assume most people are more concerned about wear. Now, that is also individual in nature as most people would be pleased to get 200,000 out of an engine and what frequency of changes would do that based on driving conditions etc. 3000,5000,7500,10,000???? If you wanted 300,000 miles then maybe changing every 2000 miles is the answer. But, as many people have stated, it is the rest of the car that eventually goes first today, especially the transmissions, and not the engines from normal wear. Then you have the boredom factor, after 10 years you get tired of driving the same old same old technologically antique car.

mdey

I have a 92 Explorer with 136,000 miles I didn't start for six weeks because of some rehab work I was doing on it. Most of it was the cooling system, but I've been a little busy and didn't touch the thing for a week at a time. I had just changed the oil and filter about 200 miles previous to the work.

Anyway, when I restarted it, it made quite a racket for about 2-3 seconds until the oil got up to the heads. It also gave me a puff of blue smoke out the tailpipe on a car that never burns oil. It also had less than a full load of coolant in the block because I replaced the waterpump, which means no sound insullation from the coolant. No noise from the lower part of the engine before it fired, so the noise was in the heads. I expect one of the valves that remained open while it sat for 6 weeks stuck open until oil got to it.

There is definitely something to be said for a good oil and keeping it clean. But I know now that the oil will definitely find its way to the pan over time. Never had this happen after a 2-week vacation with the car sitting in the garage, but 6 weeks is definitely too long.

div2

1993 Nissan Pathfinder SE, 132000 miles: BMW Synthetic 5W-30 + Nissan Filter every 6K-7K miles, oil consumption @1/2 qt. between changes.

1995 BMW 318ti, 69300 miles: Mobil 1 15W-50 + BMW filter every 4K-5K miles, oil consumption 1 qt every 3500 miles. Car sees somewhat frequent track and high rpm use.

1997 BMW 528iA, 68000 miles: Mobil 1 15W-50 + BMW filter every 9000 miles, no oil consumption between changes.

raypani

My 2002 Buick Century owner's manual says that an onboard computer that counts engine revolutions will tell me when to change oil by putting a message (not described) on the dash (doesn't say where, and that after the message is displaced the oil should be changed before two more tankfuls of gas are used up. I'm at 6,000 miles and still no message. I asked the dealer and they said to ignore the manual and just change it every 3,000. I think they're just trying to sell more (unnecessary) oil changes. But what if the computer's not working, how would I know?

Anyone have any experience with this?

heng

I ignore the monitors and change oil at ~4500 miles and reset the monitor. One time I waited for the oil change indicator out of curiosity. I believe it was pushing 6000 miles on the oil and I could visibly see the oil on the dip stick was getting sludged. I changed the oil right away. The change oil light came on soon thereafter.

I only use the oil change monitor as a reminder should I forget. Haven't yet with about a dozen cars.

armtdm

In my case it would come on around 7,500 as I also have the read out that gives oil life remaining. More highway miles. Dealer etc. old school plus service bays need the work so naturally, 3000 mile oil changes. Ingnore the fact that engines and oils have improved and that same GM (mine at least) has 50,000 mile severe tranny changes (100,000 normal) and 150,000 5 year coolant. But oil, dealers need to get you back in so hey, you need 3000 mile changes

thierryb

You cannot judge an oil by its color, only a complete oil analysis will determine how good your oil lubricates your engine. Good intervals for oil drains are 5,000 miles for Group2 Dino oil, and 10,000 miles for Synthetic Group 3,4 and 5 without a bypass filter.

wain

the technical reason for the 3000 mile oil change is probably Jiffy lube marketing.

I bet 4ooo would work fine for the us.

zr2rando

I use STP in my 1989 Nissan truck so I DEFINITELY have a maximum of 3k/4mo change interval, at the moment it has about 183k on it. Even when it was younger, and before I started using STP I still changed it regularly at 3k miles...I could tell the motor ran better with the new oil...motor only has 100 hp so I believe it needs all the help it can get...
My 2 other vehicles are Chevy trucks with 4.3 v6 motors, I change them at 3k miles routinely, but do not notice any real improvement just because of new oil...I use normal petroleum oil and ABF filters (Anything But Fram!!!)
see ya

artwis

Same deal as rapani post#28. I asked my dealer and they have some doubt about following the oil life meter. They recommended 3000 mile changes until they finished with some research. They are letting their service truck go til the oil monitor says change the oil and then they are having a oil analysis done. After a couple of cycles they should have some good stats to make a further recommendation.
I also asked about going to Mobil 1 to stretch change intervals (even though Mobil 1 says on their site to change as the manufacturers mauals recommend). The service guys said they have some who are changing with Mobil 1 every 6000 but change the filter every 3000.
If I have to be at the dealers every 3000 I figure I might as well stay with dino oil and just do the whole deal every 3000. They only charge me $17.95 and that includes checking tire pressure, topping fluids etc.

armtdm

Well, I did oil analysis on the OEM at 4400 miles when I switched to synthetic and then went 12,000 miles with filter and top off at 6000 miles. Oil analyis was much better then OEM but that is to be expected as engine is still breaking in. If the dealer does in fact get analysis take a look at it and, as you know, one report means nothing, you need 2-3 to form an opinion.

Warranty is based on the oil monitor, there is nothing in the owners manaul about changing oil more frequently then 7500 miles or when the light comes on. Dealer is looking to keep service bays full!.

wain

so is Jiffy Lube
thats what 3000 is all about

adc100

may have difficulty evaluating if round wheels work better than square ones. As armtdm indicated, he is looking at getting and keeping you in the warm arms of his little dealership so he can rip you off for the 25K checkups. You don't need to go to the dealer every 3K because thats what he wants you to do. You merely need to follow your manual. Go with a good synthetic and go with their recommendations. My son has the GrandAm and we start to think about changing it when the lite comes on.

mrdetailer

Tom and Ray of National Public Radio, and cartalk.cars.com publish a pamphlet called 10 ways to ruin your car without knowing it. One of those items was failure to do oil changes. They used to recommend changing every 3,000 too. Now they recommend every 5,000 miles citing both engine and oil quailty improvements.

I look at the cost of an oil change vs the cost of a overhaul and the choice becomes easier.

armtdm

Or, in this case the dealer's boat as he can make those boat loan payments!

celianeron

Hi,
When should I change oil? At 8-9K yearly, 5K for Summer(2 months) 3K Winter(2 months). I'd like to change only twice a year. I've been using Castrol Syntec 5-50(OUCH?) in my '99 Ford E150 4.2 six.(Fla.) After the Summer, the van is stored,except for a few runs.Thanks for the suggestions.
Ron

f4u1d25

In the past I've changed oil and filter every 3,000 miles but my new Acura CL3.2 S Type manual says every 7500 and filter every 15000 and that's what I'm going to follow. My dealer says the same thing and uses 5W-30 non-synthetic Mobil oil when he performs maintainence. By the way, I've got 6457 miles on the odometer and haven't lost a drop.

bluedevils

Our Kia Sedona minivan specifies something like that: filter change interval is twice as long as oil change interval.

Even among the folks who do extended oil drains, many of them change the filter halfway in-between.

adc100

I also agree. It seems absurd to change oil and keep on the old filter.

kinley

Given: Over 100,000 miles on engine. Uses a quart every 1,000. As a quart a thousand is being added, fresh oil is regularly introduced so why not change only the filter every seven or eight thousand miles, never dropping the oil out of the pan?

zr2rando

The residue from the oil burning in the cylinders is building up as time goes by,,,cruds up the plugs and inside of the combustion chamber,,
try a couple short interval changes using thicker oil and extra detergent and seal swell, try to see if you can help the valve seals seal better and the rings clean up in the ring grooves on the piston.
I always use thicker oil on older engines, starting at about 50k actually (I have also taken alot of abuse on this from the synthetics crowd and the "5w/10w30 gets better mileage crowd" )
I have my reasons but I choose better protection over better gas mileage,,,,especially as the engine gets more "mature..."....and just a side note...I check mileage on every tank, and over the years, on all my vehicles, drop in gas mileage has been minimal if even noticeable as I increased the oil viscosity as the engine aged...
Sorry bout that, just got up on my stump for a minute:)
see y'all
Rando

nippononly

I have been changing the oil in my '97 outback sport every 4000 miles since it was new. I use mineral oil, not synthetic. I use the same 5W-30 that is recommended in the manual, always have, still do. I change the filter every time I change the oil. To date the car has 115K miles, does not burn or leak a drop of oil, has perfect compression, and gets the same gas mileage it did when it was new: 28 or so. It seems one can go over the top in changing oil...let's not forget that the used oil has to go somewhere, and more refined oil is needed to replace the oil you are dumping, both of which can be hard on the environment!

Question for all you oil mavens out there: if you only drive a few thousand miles per year (say 5000-7500), should you wait for the mileage markers to go by to change the oil, in which case you would change it maybe twice a year or less, or do it every three months even tho you have only driven 1500 miles or so?

mrdetailer

I have 3 cars and 2 drivers. I have found the following to be good and supported by oil analysis. I average about 6,000 on my local commuter. I change oil on minimum recommendation for miles (severe schedule) but no longer than the maximum time recommended for the normal interval.

I would stick to 3K for vehicles with a reputation for sludging (Toyota) even if it was not a common occurrance.

malachy72

Owned by a friend of mine who works in the auto parts business had a lot of engine and tranny trouble at 10 years and 63K miles. So much that he traded it in on a 2001 Monte Carlo. He thought the source of his problem was that he carried a lot of heavy people in his car on weekend jaunts, but I suspect that the type of driving he did (most of his daily commute was just about 4 miles one way), was more damaging than the occasional load. Anyway he religiously changed the oil at 3K intervals. Those intervals just didn't occur at 3 months.

The Monte Carlo is on semi-annual Mobil 1 changes (He's putting about 5k miles on annually, no more heavy loads because of 2 doors vs. 4 drs, hehe.)I'm not sure he's going to fare much better as they are still hard miles.

adc100

Mobil did an "Aunt Minnie Test" where neither the oil or filter were changed for 62months/7000 mi. They did 2 trips of 3 miles each per day for half the period and 2 trips of 1.5 miles each for the other half. They did draw a total of 4.5 quarts for sampling purposes. The engine was judged "excellent" in cleanliness.

Who knows?

newcar31

That's strange. My parents have a 92 Camry with 64,000 miles and have had zero problems in the almost 11 years of ownership. Still runs like a top.

nippononly

for the feedback. It seems like as long as you change the oil at least once or twice a year, it is more important to judge the interval by the number of miles driven. This info is for someone else - I have never had this problem, usually driving in excess of 30K miles per year!!

As far as the camry story, I am sure hard driving had a lot to do with that guy's tranny problems! That series of camrys was pretty tough.