Toyota Sienna Future Models

newcar35

Karen, it sounds like you are getting ready to turn this board to read-only. Please don't. I've gone to the owners board, but it really isn't much use for people looking at the 2004. While technically the 2004 Siennas are out, realistically speaking, most people will not have the opportunity to find a knowledgeable salesperson, much less test-drive the car they want, for months yet. This board provides a specific forum for those of us trying to work out what's available and trade stories of what they have found, without wading through posts regarding past models. I guess, if you feel you must close out this board because it says "future", please start up another one specific to the 2004. I don't know about anyone else, but it won't be worth my effort to scroll through irrelevant posts on other boards looking for scraps of info on my specific interest...

andrewtran71

Good points.
Just wondering if there are people out there complaining about keeping this post so strict.
This post is about sharing our thoughts and concerns and it has something to do with the 2004 Sienna. A quick reference or mentioning of another vehicle doesn't hurt, does it? If we had to go to a different post just because we want to mention anything else other than the word "2004 Sienna" it would take forever.
Besides, what's the use of a post that doesn't get a lot of inputs and discussion like this post?
I think we need to relax a little and let this post remain both insightful and fun.
As long as we are not offending anyone, what's the harm?

my2sons

Hi all, we are trying to work a deal on an LE AWD but the dealer does not have one in stock,it won't be in for a few weeks and I was wondering if it was wise to buy the van before driving it? We have checked out the FWD LE but not driven it. Do you think the AWD and FWD will drive and handle the same, like all the dealers in the area are saying it will? Any input would be appreciated.

bargamon

Karen,

is the future here? Path I saved in favorites does not work. is this discussion being shut down?

johneevo

I will go for either idea, keep this one open or please open one specific to the 2004s.

newcar35

I don't know if the AWD and FWD handle differently, but I would think they might, and that noise level might be different. What we have done is put down a $500 deposit on a car, fully refundable if we decide -- for any reason -- that we don't want the car once it comes in and we have a chance to look at it and test drive it. Normally, they don't do this, but agreed to it because they didn't have a vehicle for us to view beforehand. Just make sure to get this IN WRITING if you go this route, so they can't refuse to give you a refund afterwards. I'm fairly confident that we're going to buy anyway, but you never know...

bsth

For Toyota to be the value leader, they need to give me a deal on an 04 Sienna. $31,600 for a leather model W/sunroof with $500 off MSRP vs. a Odyssey EXL for $27,000. $4,100 can go a long way in my back pocket. Just my .02.
Oh yeah 2004 Sienna. Have to keep it on the up & up.

coolguyky7

Has this discussion been hidden on the Future Vehicles board? I couldn't find it, but found a loophole to it.

canuck13

Can't they just change the name of the discussion and keep this open? ..Like "Sienna Owners - 2004 Model"?

winedogs

Quick question. If enough of us complain. Can we keep this sight open. I think we all agree, this sight is and can be very usefull in the purchase of a 2004 Sienna

nybud

I too was disappointed to find the pricing for the sienna 04 very expensive. I thought you could
get an xle for $28770, but was dumbfounded to find that on the web, it said in N.Y., the msrp is $28260 and I had to put in a $4149 option package (about half of the things in it i dont want). And then the deliv. proc. fee is $510, so thus, the xle (*not* limited) starts at $32.9K for me.

2 other interesting items to note, before this week's toyota.com change in the sienna 04 info,
the site said all siennas come with std. with two 115V outlets. now i see no mention of this except when you get the DVD entertainment system.

Also, i think the Edmunds site, in comparing the sienna 04 to other vehicles show's that it uses
*premium* gasoline, not regular.

Anyway, I will probably go check it out at my local dealer, but I'm dissappointed already with this pricing structure.

sarniasting

I test drove a LE AWD last week so I could get a firsthand feel for the AWD. My interests are in the LTD AWD therefore only cencerned myself with the ride. I drove it over smooth and rough roads, different speeds and found it to be very good. Cannot think of any negatives. I currently have a 99 Sienna and found the ride to be better in the 04. Not just because of newnest; just felt the ride was smoother and quieter. I have no second thoughts about buying the LTD AWD after driving the LE AWD.

bargamon

Please just change the name.

zorax2

Please leave this board open - Change name to 2004 Sienna instead of Future Vehicles. There is a lot of worthwhile information here.

zorax2

Go to - Sienna 2004 Owner Questions, Observations

riskaker11

Rename to 2004 Sienna if need be but definitely maintain as a separate board. Other than name, this is a totally different vehicle from previous Sienna's. There are no mechanical similarites between the 04 and previous model years. Questions/interests/experience are specific to the 04.

Karen_S

...and this discussion will never be archived as it lives in the Sienna Owners board. (The discussions there do not archive automatically as they do on all of the other Town Hall boards.) It was linked to the Future Vehicles, but as mentioned earlier, the 2004 cannot be designated as a "future model" because it is now the "current" model available at dealerships.

The reason we are encouraging you to go to current discussions in Vans and Sienna Owners is for new visitors to the site. They may not be inclined to check this discussion as it is designed for upcoming models and not specifically for any one year.

If your subscription to this discussion has disappeared, it is because you subscribed to the link on the FV board and not to the actual discussion in Sienna Owners.

Again, my apologies for the confusion. If you have any questions, please direct them to me in email.

utahsnow

I just bought an '04 Sienna LE AWD with the "BI" options (LE package #4). Edmunds says that daytime running lights (DRL's) are standard equipment with this vehicle, but mine either doesn't have them or they aren't working. So, are DRL's standard equipment on this model (and mine aren't working) or is Edmunds' listing wrong?

I'm asking here instead of at the dealer because you who contribute to this board know a lot more than my dealer about this car. Toyota's web site states what's standard for the LE but not specifically for the LE AWD. (The "build your Toyota" part of Toyota's web site has no spec's for the LE AWD, and its little summary incorrectly states the LE AWD can have the second row "front and center" seat.)

By the way, the reason I bought the AWD is that sometimes our small street in a snowy canyon is not plowed clear of snow promptly, when all major roads have been plowed and my students expect me to be in class. However, I basically agree with the posters who said that it's stability control, not AWD, which helps prevent skids. If you want to prevent skids, get stability control. If you want to climb snowy hills, get AWD. The only footnote to this is that with an AWD system like the Sienna's, with engine torque being distributed more-or-less evenly to all four wheels all the time, a skid is less likely to begin in the first place than if torque is distributed to only two wheels. If a skid does begin, however, AWD's distribution of engine torque doesn't help because there is no engine torque going to the wheels anyway (you're not pressing on the accelerator any more). So if a skid does begin, AWD is useless but stability control will help.

(I'm still not sure about all the physics of this. Sure, the more engine torque a wheel gets, the greater the chance that torque overpowers the road's coefficient of friction and a slide starts. But that can't be all there is to it, otherwise a car coasting---
so zero engine torque---could never skid. Does the rest of the story involve the car's velocity and mass? Or its acceleration...??)

overtime1

AWD with stability/traction/roll control is simply safer than FWD with the same type of electronics.

OT

dparler

Keep this site open. But we don't need 100 other posts saying that. Can we just "go with this" ... it's easy to check here and then flip to "PRICES paid" and get an update. Karen ? Steve?

blandfordm

As I understand from info on the web, daytime running lights only come with option package 7. Option package 4 should come with Trip Computer/Homelink, Rear Seat Audio, Power RH Passenger Sliding Door, and Driver & Front Passenger Side Bolster Airbags, All 3 Row Curtain Shield Airbags.

hondasux

If someone wants to discuss his choices for chosing between an SUV and a minivan, so be it. If we entertain his ideas and share in his reasoning, what harm can it cause. I for one find it interesting, because since Minis have approached the prices of SUVs.

Stop being such a forum-[non-permissible content removed]. Your job is primarily to keep things civilize!

alpha01

Why was this board removed from Future Vehicles? True, they are in dealerships- but look at the FV listings- Saturn ION, Mitsubishi Outlander, Nissan Maxima, etc.... ALL STILL on the FV thread. Consistency please? You are creating confusion, and traffic on here has dropped. Not cool.

~alpha

deepan

its the law in Canada since 90. All vehicles sold here must have them. on the older siennas the difference between them and the low beams are neglible.

Karen_S

Many of the discussions on the Future Vehicles board will eventually archive due to inactivity...they are not permanent discussions. This discussion lives in the OC and will never archive. I know it's confusing, but that is specifically why we are encouraging you to continue discussing the 2004 here:

Toyota Sienna 2004+

Steve/Vans host has a good explanation of this necessity in the above discussion.

utahsnow

Thanks to those who responded to my question; let me clarify it. The option packages for the LE AWD are AM (LE#1), BG (LE#3), BI (LE#4), and CO (LE#12). None of these four option packages have daytime running lights in the USA. My question is: are daytime running lights STANDARD equipment on the LE AWD? I can find a list of standard equipment for the LE but not for the LE AWD, and they don't have the same standard equipment (for example, the LE AWD has VSC standard and the LE does not have VSC standard).

If DRL's are not standard on the LE AWD then they are impossible to obtain on the LE AWD. What sense would that make: DRL is packaged with VSC/TRAC/Brake Assist on 2WD, but on AWD, VSC/TRAC/Brake Assist is standard but DRL is unavailable??

blandfordm

According to edmunds.com and autosite.com, daytime running lights are supposed to come standard on the 2004 Sienna LE AWD

plymouthhater

LE 8 Pass
Purchased from dealer north of Toronto for $1K over dealer cost price (got dealer cost info from the APA)...only complaint, all of the GTA dealers I visited, charge an admin fee of $250-$300 for "admin" which includes etching all the windows with a security number (the theory being that no one will steal the van if they have to replace all the glass)...and no dealer will sell the vehicle without this "option"
BTW the sales manager told me that Ontario Toyota dealers will be switching shortly to a pricing system called "Access Toyota" where their vehicles will be sold at a fixed no haggle price like Saturns.

Luzer

VIN etch costed me $99 in 1999.

This can be negotiated out as it cost nothing unless they send in the forms to activate the service. I tried and failed "it's already on, I can't take it off yadaBS. My friend's Honda dealer did not push and did not charge for it, although he paid MSRP for his Ody.

By nothing, I mean that someone is on the payroll already...

Doc fees are another rip when they exceed $100.

jd_ottawa

I have been trying to locate the Cdn invoice pricing for an XLE (Non Limited). Would you have that info?

Thanks

plymouthhater

Anybody know, does the CD Player on the LE support (play) CDR's?

toyotaken

toyotaken

CDR's are playable on Toyota CD players as long as the music isn't saved as an MP3 file. They may not play CDRW's though.

Hope this helps.

Ken

hansienna

Does anyone here recall when the Toyota Camry became best selling sedan in the USA? With Toyota reputation for quality and reliability, how many years before the Sienna is the best selling minivan?

stickguy

Depends if they want to build the plant capacity, and expand the range (down) to get the people that can't afford 25K.

Chrysler at least offers a model for everyone, and can build a boat load each year.

Since the minivan market is about 1 million/year now, between Toyota and Honda, they are up to about 250,000 capacity between them, so combined they are putting a serious dent in the CryCo market share.

hansienna

I think minivan market numbers will increase now with the new 2004 Sienna. I did not consider a modern minivan until the 2004 Sienna came out. My 1976 VW Bus was not the quality of my 1964 VW Beetle and Honda dealers have been too arrogant. My 1970 Dodge van kept me from Chrysler Corp vehicles. Ironically, 2 of my sons now drive Caravans and the 3rd drives an Odyssey.
    Toyota reliability is a known with reliable 91 Toyota Pickup, 92 4-Runner, 84 Tercel, 86 Corolla, and current 94 Corolla wagon. Chevy reliability has varied: 2001 Blazer and 80 Chevy van were reliable but 99 Tracker was not.

andrewtran71

I think if all you want is the most basic minivan out there, you can't beat the '04 Sienna for the value of Price/Reliability/Practicality. But as soon as you desire any more options---cruise control, traction control, etc., it's a whole different beast.

hansienna

Stickguy was right. I just checked Edmund's Pricing for 2004 Sienna CE and it is $23,465.
    With option group 3 as the only extra cost option at $1657, the CE has Tinted windows, Power Mirrors, Cruise, Roof Rack, Side air curtains for all 3 rows, Skid Control, Traction Control, Brake Assist, Rear Disc brakes, Windshield Base De-Icer, and Daytime Running Lights. Total MSRP $25,140 while 8 Passenger CE with same options MSRP is $25,760.
     What other options does anyone need?

alpha01

I really am not understanding what all the complaining over Sienna pricing is about- yes, the vehicle gets pricey when optioned with leather, all power sliders, NAV, DVD, and AWD- but hello! What other minivans even offer combinations like that? Moderately equipped, the Sienna is reasonably priced.

~alpha

alpha01

I really am not understanding what all the complaining over Sienna pricing is about- yes, the vehicle gets pricey when optioned with leather, all power sliders, NAV, DVD, and AWD- but hello! What other minivans even offer combinations like that? Moderately equipped, the Sienna is reasonably priced.

~alpha

terrae

1) Can anyone provide me with the Canadian Invoice and Selling Prices for the 2004 Toyota Sienna CE and LE? I was told by the APA that there is not much room for negotiation.

2) Can anyone provide any feedback on whether the LE mode is worth the extra $5000 over the CE model?

sarniasting

Terrae I do not know the exact invoice prices as they are closely guarded in Canada. The % mark up is approximately 8% on these models, therefore look at the MSRP and deduct 8% and you will have the approximate cost to Canadian dealers. I hope this helps. I used this when negotiating for my 04 LTD to give me an idea and was very close to their cost. Good luck and yes dealers will sell less then MSRP.

plymouthhater

the dealer markup on an LE-FWD 8 pass. is approx $3K, you should be able to negotiate a minimum of at least $1000 off MSRP.

I visited several dealers in the Toronto area, and the response I got was everything from: "MSRP take it or leave it" to "make an offer"...I ended up getting the vehicle for $1K above dealer cost (which was given to me by the APA)

Be prepared to pay $250-$300 for an "admin fee" which includes the cost of etching the windows, and no dealer I visited would discount or let me opt out of that fee.

Freight at $1260 - the dealer cost is approx $180 less.

riskaker11

I am negotiating on an AWD XLE and have brought the price down by $1900 ($Cdn)off MRSP and a deal on the trailer hitch.

I also have a Toyota dealership owner contact who claims he will set me up with a good price, but before I go there I want to know how well I can do elsewhere. So far things look great, better than I expected.

There is a $3600 ($Cdn) markup on the XLE AWD so I may have a little room yet but realistically not much due the the high demand right now.

eddie777

terrae: You still have to pay for invoice prices here. I haven't found any place that sells them for less than $15 each. Sticker prices available at toyota.ca. I believe they range from $30,000 for the CE 7-pass to over $50G for a fully loaded XLE AWD. IMHO, the LE is not worth the extra cash. Make a list of the LE features and see how many of them you really want or need. $5G is a lot of dough in my book.

sarniasting: I believe the price structures in Can are not the same as in the US. I.e. there might only be a 6.5% markup here. This helps explain why our cars are still cheaper than in the US after exchange rates. No I don't work for Toyota, but I'm pretty sure you can't easily estimate the invoice yourself.

plymouthhater: Toyota's freight is much higher than Honda's or Mazda's. I wonder why their shipping costs are so high. If not, the dealers get no bargain here, and of course, neither does the customer.

risktaker: I think you've done reasonably well, IMHO. Keep in mind that Access Toyota is coming to Ontario soon . . . it's moving it's way east. I'm in MB and we've had it for a couple years now. Can't say I'm thrilled about it but that's another story. I'm shopping for a CE-8 pass which stickers at $31,000. Access price: $30,951. No dickering. My advice, if you're in Ontario and east and you like to haggle, buy now before Access takes over. Even after initial demand goes down, the Access discount will only be a few hundred.

sarniasting

Did you receive a price on the hitch? My dealer still does not have any prices for the hitch. If it is a Toyota hitch will it be the same as on previous Toyota hitches where you only see the female sleeve coming out from the bumper? Any info will be greatly appreciated. Good luck on your negotiations but I think you are running out of room.

mayhem2003

Eddie777: I find your post to be informative. I think the dealer profit is easily 8% to 10% including holdback, etc.

The higher and more expensive the model, the bigger the dealer profit. Therefore, I think $3600 ($Cdn) markup on the XLE AWD might not be accurate.

I have reached the same conclusion as you re the CE vs LE. IMO it is not worth the $4,700 (incl. taxes) for the LE. That is why I have been shopping around for a CE 8 passenger.

Regarding Access Toyota pricing, 2 excellent, encouraging newspaper articles appeared in Toronto Star and Globe & Mail on Friday, March 28, 2003. I was very close to buying a few days ago but as a result of the articles, I am going to try to dicker for another $1000. Email me at ubcprof@yahoo.com, in case you can't find the articles.

terrae

Thanks to everyone for their replies to my previous questions! I would also like some feedback on the "extra" options. Which of the following would you recommend doing?

* Underbody & Rust Protection
* Fabric Guard
* Paint Protection with Teflon
* Extra Care Protection

Does anyone have experience with these programs and how well they work?

eddie777

* Underbody & Rust Protection
===> Toyotas from the 80's would need this. Not anymore I think. Most cars come with adequate rust protection from the factory.

* Fabric Guard
===> Buy a $10 can of Scotchguard from Canadian Tire.

* Paint Protection with Teflon
===> Don't know much about this, but willing to bet there are cheaper and better aftermarket alternatives.

* Extra Care Protection
===> The reason I (and a lot of people) buy Toyotas is because they are so reliable. Extended warranties for Chryslers of Chevys maybe, but not for Toyotas.

Sorry if I seem a little opinionated, but in my experience, most if not all these add-ons add very little value to the car.

tinyguy

I too have been looking into CE 8-pas vs LE, and the same conclusion. The only options I'd miss is the "trip computer". I don't care about mag wheels (at least on a minivan) and remote garage door opener.

Few questions though - the fabric material are supposed to be different. Is LE that much better in this respect?

Also, toyota.ca doesn't mention this at all - do ANY of these models come with a traction control? I can't find it on their web based table at all.