Frontier vs Ranger

cygnusx1

Cthompson - oh, but comments about junior high and spring break are soooo intellectual, eh? Please. Anyway, the references to the links I believe are a great source of info! Better than any magazine article. They represent real folks talking about real problems with their Rangers.
No bias there, just real gripes straight from the "Rangerstation". And all my Ford's have been "lemons". They stink. Never had bad luck with any car or truck except for Ford. I still love the Mustang, but what a waste of money to maintain. I've owned enough Ford's to know plenty about them. I think they are heaps, especially the Ranger. If you like yours then that's great. Who really cares? I think they're junk. Don't get so worked up about it. Why do you care that I think Rangers are heaps anyway? Now...on with talking about trucks....

gooba

The Sport Trac has the 4.0L and the figures you have are correct. 205hp @ 5000rpm and 240ft/lbs of torque @ 4000rpm. Ford wants to turn the engine higher.As for the NEW Frontier I personally am glad that I have my 2000. I like the current styling better,although I would like to have the supercharger on mine. Maybe later.

cthompson21

You act like a child, you're gonna get treated like a child.

Why would you keep buying Fords if you consider them to be such "junk". That seems like a pretty illogical course of action.

No bias, huh? Trolling topics is absolutely biased. Why can't you show both sides of the argument, such as posting the pluses along with the negatives of those reviews?

Somebody who knows nothing about Rangers calls my truck "junk" and a "rattletrap" among others. Maybe you should educate yourself before passing judgement.

cthompson21

I'd think twice about putting forced induction on an engine that wasn't designed for it. Nissan has probably modded the 3.3L to work with the SC, at least one would hope.

gooba

I understand what you are saying. The basic hard parts in the engine should stay the same.The mods that I could see are in the computer,sensors,and fuel system.I have not seen a different engine designation for the long block yet. There are a few manufacturers of aftermarket kits,and so far,there has been no problems. i personally have seen a couple of these kits run on vehicles and there hasn't been a problem yet. Stillen is currently running a kit on an Xterra. I am awaiting their results.I would hope that Nissan would offer a kit.

scape2

I don't know where truck trend gets their data but they are wrong. Its 2750rmps for the 225ft/lbs of torque. Visit other websits for auto's and truck specs and you will see for yourself.
Sounds as if cygnusx1 has Ranger envy and a huge chip on his/her shoulder for Ford. Never the less Ford Ranger continues on its path of being a best seller again and again and again. I guess those hundreds of thousands of buyers are all wrong? I wonder when Nissan will change its name to Renualt?

brooks9

I just got rid of my 97 Ranger XLT. 69,000 miles in only 3 1/2 years but it wasn't even paid off and I spent $2800 in repairs. First, it was leaking oil in too many places so they suggested resealing the whole thing, cost $2300. After I got that back, the "Check Engine" light came on and they said it was under warranty but they noticed the AT & PS were seeping (not leaking, just seeping). They said it wasn't critical but it would be $1000 to fix. Of course, the "Check Engine" light came on before I could take in it for the seeping problem and it was $550 for a heat sensor and major tune up. Well guess what? I'm a Nissan owner now. Take that Ford.

cygnusx1

I tried my hand with Fords - and bought a few over the years thinking they were supposedly reliable - and I was wrong. I don't have a chip on my shoulder about them - I just don't think they're all what you make them out to be. There's two sides to every story - mine just happens to be opposed to Ford, especially the Ranger. Had much better luck with Chevy's and Nissan's. Never owned a Dodge truck so I can't say really, other than I hear they have a lot of problems too. But I don't know. Probably would never consider one anyway. The day Ford gets it's relability on track and stops making a truck with all those sqeaks and rattles, I'll consider one. Until them I remain highly opposed to the Ranger. That's all. Like I said, if you love yours then great. Cthompson seems hurt by all this for some reason. I'm sorry you're upset that I hate the Ford Ranger and think it's a heap. But from my experience it is. Of course I'm not going to post any "plusses" about Ford's because in my opinion they have none really, save for the Mustang. You're on a "this truck vs that truck" board, what did you expect anyway?

Now..for a truck question...have you ever heard of putting magnets on the air intakes to supposedly increase power/performance? I've heard several truck owners say it works - and other say it's all just hype. Kind of like the K&N air filters. Some swear by them, some say there's no difference.

cthompson21

Nissan will probably also make some internal mods to the 3.3L for the SC. They need to strengthen it up for the added stress of forced induction.

I'm guess I'm just saying that all else being equal, the same engine will last longer when it is naturally aspirated as opposed to being "force-fed". You'd probably want to consider that when deciding whether or not to supercharge.

cthompson21

Did you take your truck to any other dealers/mechanics? Those prices and repairs sound pretty fishy. Weren't they covered under warranty (or was the warranty up)? What is the "heat sensor"?

cthompson21

Hurt!? LOL Sounds like the troller is getting defensive.


If you believe that magnets will work, I'll sell you this here Vornado and that bridge over yonder.

K&N's will flow marginally better. A FIPK will get you another 5-15hp depending on the application.

gooba

vince8,I agree with you that truck trend is showing data that is contrary to other sites. I still want to know specifically where you got your data. I gave 2 sites and the data that they show. Edmunds and autosite.You had to go somewhere to get those figures.To cygnusx1,I have heard of the magnets on the intake as well as magnets on the fuel line.In my opinion save your money.The K & N filter in my opinion can help if you do the rest of it. The system is designed with a certain amount of backpressure to function correctly. By putting a free breathing filter on the intake side you have increased by a small amount the quantity of air going into the engine.if you leave it at that you increase the amount of backpressure on the exhaust side.To get the best benefit you have to also change the exhaust.

cygnusx1

I think Vince said he installed a K&N in his Ranger, right? Maybe he can chime in as to whether or not he sees and improvement in horses and what the rpm's are like.

I have a friend with a Ford Focus and was helping out with a Tru-rev max induction kit. I believe the K&N is useable in there, but not sure. Anyway, we were talking and that's when we got on the topic of the magnets. I've heard both sides, but I tend to think it's all hype (the magnets, not the K&N).

cthompson21

I've installed a KKM Tru-Rev kit on my truck. It's good for a few extra horses (maybe 5-7, would need a dyno to verify). It also added about 1mpg to fuel economy. The sound at WOT is well worth the $90.

The KKM kits use powerstack cotton guage filters. They're pretty much 'generic' K&N filters.

The airbox is the biggest restriction on the intake, not the air filter. (At least in Rangers) A K&N might be a noticeable improvement if you're replacing a dirty paper filter.

cygnusx1

Are the horses you get pretty much at higher RPMs?
Yeah, the cotton guage filters do seem to be "generic" K&N filters, so I guess there's no reason to purchase a K&N unless you want the name.
Can you actually feel the extra horses in a "seat of the pants" kind of way? If so, that seems to be a noticable improvement. I know some guys who have said they can't really "feel" the improvement, but have shaved a few tenths off of their time on a 1/4 mile track (obviously these are people who race a lot so they're always looking to shave some time off). I'm just wondering if it's worth the undertaking for me to do to this new Frontier I have. I don't really *need* it per se. I pull a small bass boat and so far the truck is fine - but granted I haven't had to go up any major mountain roads (and probably won't need to, but you never know).

Also, like you mentioned, I think on most vehicles the biggest restriction is the air intake, not the filter. I can't think of any where the intake could be considered generous.

cthompson21

The power gains are at all rpms, but it's really noticeable on the higher end. There is a "seat of your pants" feel of more hp and torque. The engine also runs smoother. (Ranger at least, Nissan engines are much more smooth & refined)

With a FIPK/Tru-Rev (or equivalent), a cat-back exhaust, and a Superchip you should get some pretty heady power gains, about 30hp and 30ft/lbs of torque. An auto tranny will also shift better as the Superchip recalibrates the shift points and firmness (a definate plus for the "sloppy" shift programming on the Ranger's slushbox).

cygnusx1

Well, all in all the reason I went with a Frontier is because the majority of the time I'm commuting in my truck and I happened to like the feel/shift of the Frontier better than the others I drove. I know that Ford and Chevy both have much beefier engines, but that wasn't my main concern. I unloaded an S-10 that was fine, but just didn't want another one for no particular reason really. The nissan is the first foreign truck I have ever owned and I wanted a good mix of marginal off-roading capabilities and nice, smooth, around town driveability. So for me, the Frontier works.
Sure, I get the "shoulda bought American" comments from friends a lot, but the truck works for me so that's all that matters I guess. But I do realize that Nissan's current best engine is weaker in the tourqe/hp department than Ranger and S-10's best engines. So I may explore my options for increasing horses and see what happens. Also, do you have any experience/thoughts/comments on an in-fender type cold air kit? Thanks for the tips!

cthompson21

Well, you can tell your buds that you did buy american. Nissan Frontiers are built in Smyrna, Tennessee. I don't fall into all of that domestic vs. foreign junk. There's no true domestic or foreign. It's better to buy what you like that suits your needs.

I went with the Ranger because it was the best value in 4x4 compact pickups. It might not be outstanding in any area, but it does everything well. There aren't any major drawbacks that aren't subjective as far as I can tell. I only wish I would have went with the 5-speed. I conceded the automatic to my wife.

Toyotas are too damn expensive. There are hardly any Nissan dealers in my area (SW Chicago 'burbs), and their selection is always very limited. I would have liked a crew-cab 4x4. The Dakotas really sky-rocket when you add any options. Their V6 is terrible, and I don't want/need V8 power or fuel economy. The S10's also seem like a good buy, but my subjective opinion came down to the Ranger. The Ranger-clone, Mazda B-Series, was too limited in option choices at the time. I got a great deal to boot with 4x4 value pkg disc, coll grad disc, factory cash back, and special financing.




Your single best upgrade would be a cat-back exhaust. I'd go with a Borla or Gibson stainless. Then, an open air intake. Then, a Superchip. Cold air, ram air, or any other sort of custom intake will all work about the same. The temperature inside of the engine compartment of a moving vehicle is marginally more than the outside air temperature. So, you'll probably see no difference between something simple like the KKM Tru-Rev Kit or something more elaborate like the in-fender cold-air kit.

Good luck with your truck. With about $600 you can easily bump it up to 200hp and 230ft/lbs of torque.

One more thing, the only drawback to a Superchip is that you must use premium fuel only.

brooks9

I'm not a mechanic so all I can tell you is what they told me, it has something to do with the environmental controls. Actually, I had it at a Firestone shop for routine oil change and asked the guy to see if he could pinpoint the source of the leak. I had noticed it on my garage floor for a while and finally had time to take care of it. He said the engine was too dirty and needed to be steam cleaned before anyone could diagnose the leak. That's why I took it back to the dealer in the first place.
Oh, and it wasn't under warranty because it had 68,000+ miles on it and was 3 1/2 years old.

cthompson21

What's the name and location of your dealer and service dept? They sound terrible. If you've still got your diagnosis and invoices for the various repairs, I'd seriously consider a small claims lawsuit.

I'm no mechanic, but the repairs performed and charges assessed seem way out of line. You have an oil leak, and they want to reseal (I assume this means a new gasket at every possible location) the entire engine for $2300. They charge you $1000 to repair PS and AT leaks. A new PS pump would probably cost $200 at most if such a major fix be warranted. The AT most likely had a leaky pan gasket. I'd say anything over $100 to fix would be ridiculous.

The only ligitimate repair seems to be the "heat sensor" which is probably the oxygen sensor. They usually go bad around 75K miles or so and trip the check engine light. It would be around a $100 repair.

$550 for a tune-up? That seems way out of line too.



Take your invoices to a few mechanics around your town and have them write up some estimates for repairs. Then, take that dealer to small claims court. Just make sure to get some written evidence as this will help you to prove misrepresentation. Maybe you can get at least some of your money back.

scape2

Brooks, you've been had. Your repair costs are sky high! The oil leak could have been somthing as simple as a valve cover gasket. Why didn't you look into this further? I too am courious about your costs.
I have a K$N air charger kit on my Ranger. I believe it made a small difference. Don't expect gut wrenching, neck snapping acceleration though. If anything you will never have to change filters again, just clean it and put it back in. I noticed the difference after about 2nd gear.

brooks9

I'll have to bring the statement into work tomorrow in order to list the exact work and charges. Its kind of moot at this point since I got rid of it. In retrospect, I should have taken it to another Ford dealer to get a second opinion but that all takes time and I just didn't have alot of that. Too bad it wasn't now when all I have to do at work is surf the net.

cthompson21

You can still get money throught a small claims lawsuit even if you have gotten rid of the truck. All you need to do is prove that they caused you damages (monetary loss in this case). Estimates for work performed by other mechanics should be able to do this.

It looks like they used your lack of mechanical knowledge to take advantage of you through misrepresentation. So, you have an action against them. Just make sure the Statute of Frauds doesn't apply. It limits the amount of time in which you may begin a lawsuit, usually around 7yrs, depends on the state in which you live.

cygnusx1

Vince, you ever swap out your factory exhaust for something different or does what you have do the job pretty well?

mrpenguin20

Cthompson21,
What's a KKM Tru-Rev kit and where can you get one? I'm not all that familiar with those terms.
thanks-

volfy

I buy K&N for the last-filter-you'll-ever-buy aspect, not for any alleged power gain it may yield, which are questionable at best. Obviously if you replace a clogged up OEM paper filter with a K&N, you'll feel a difference. Otherwise, I have yet to see any inpedendently verified test result confirming any real performance gain. It's a good product worth buying, but it's no miracle.

cygnusx1

If you have a ranger - here's some info

http://www.kustomz.com/cat1.html

cthompson21

See the link posted above. It is basically an open air filter. Air is now longer drawn in through the very restrictive airbox/filter. It draws it through a high-flow cotton guage filter, and cuts the airbox out altogether. It should get you maybe 5hp at the rear wheels. The recyclable aspect of the cotton guage filter is also appealing. Just clean it every 20K or so miles, and it's like putting in a new air filter. It also makes the engine sound great at WOT. My 4L V6 almost has a V8 sound to it.

cygnusx1

Cthompson21: I didn't know you had to use premium gas with a superchip. What's the main reason?

Also, and this is for everybody, at what speeds
have you ever engaged your 4WD at? My owners manual states you can shift on the fly at up to 30 mph (the idiots at the dealership told me 50 mph). I don't know even at 30 mph if I would be comfortable engaging it. In my experience, when I use 4WD it's either in the snow - and I'm going slow already, or if I'm offroading, say on a semi-rocky/muddy trail I'm also going slow. I guess my question is, has anyone engaged their 4WD above 25 mph or so?

cthompson21

The chip recalibrates the spark/timing of the engine to utilize premium fuel. Premium fuel burns slower and more completely than lower grades, so the spark must be adjusted. You'll probably make up close to the price difference in the gas milage increase (provided you've modded the intake and exhaust), and you'll get a more powerful vehicle. Just don't the 'ol leadfoot get the best of you...

gooba

I strongly suggest that you do not engage above 25mph. you could cause damage to your hubs and transfer case. I engage mine at around 15mph and it works nicely.

scape2

I also strongly suggest not to engage above 25MPH. I engage when all my tires are straight also, and not in any turns whatsoever. It is also said that you should engage your 4x4 system at least once a month.
I still have the stock exhaust. I am hoping in the next year or two to put dual exhaust on my truck. This gives a considerable amount of HP/Torque increase to any truck.
I have a superchip in my truck, and yes, you must run premium or it knocks and pings a bit. There is a difference but only in the higher rev ranges.

scape2

Cncman, want to see my Ranger and proof I live in the NW?? Go to the Tacoma vs Ranger room and see post 344.

xena1a

Nice looking truck...

cncman

yea Vince,
looks good, I never doubted that you lived there,
like I said 4x4ing doesn't really impress me much,
and if it did I would be SOL, I live on the gulf coast.

xena1a

Went over to freshalloy.com to read about the 2001 Frontier. What's with those rivets on the wheel flairs? Looks pretty cheesy. In fact, what's with the wheel flairs in general? They look all out of proportion to the rest of the vehicle. Perhaps my impressions would be different if I were to see the 2001 Frontier in person. But looking at the photos, I was startled at my negative response about those wheel flairs...

cncman

really? that's one of the things I like the best,
oh well, different strokes!

cthompson21

i think the flairs are pretty decent looking. it's leaps and bounds better looking than the previous nissan p/u's.

how about the new z-car? it's got a cool retro look to it. keep it under 30K and have 300+ horsepower. i see a z-car vs. cobra/z28 forming...

scape2

cncman, I have a small article on the new Frontier for 2001 in this months Motor Trend. A vast improvement in styling over the present Frontier. Now lets hope Nissan puts the killer 3.5 in the Frontier, that will shut me up real quick about HP/Torque.

mrpenguin20

I just saw the new Frontiers yesterday at the Dallas Auto Show. The XE didn't look as good because of the huge black fender flares, but the SC looked really nice with the colored flares. The truck looks a lot better in person than on freshalloy.com.

cncman

Well VInce, if that's the case, I think we may all get together a collection to pay Nissan to put them in! LOL! Seriously though, I doubt the 3.5l maxima engine will go into the trucks, it is a very sophisticated, expensive engine, if they did,
the prices would jump too much, I think more likely is that we will see a bigger version of the current engine. I really liked the looks of the 01 desert runner, especially from the back. I like the idea of the lockable tailgate too.

cygnusx1

I haven't seen the 01 in person, but from the pics I've seen over the last few months I'm glad I got the 2000. I like it much better. The rivets are a little silly looking and the whole front end in general has a "cartoonish" look to it if you ask me. I guess maybe they're trying to go for the younger "Gen-X" crowd or something. Ohyeah, I did some moderate hauling this weekend - had the bed loaded down with mulch and dirt. Truck had no prob going up big winding hills even from a dead stop. More hp/tourqe might be nice, but not really necessary to do compact pick-up type hauling.

cthompson21

Those rivets would be an abolute nightmare when waxing the truck. Stuff like that (i.e. spoilers, roof racks, etc...) are dealbreakers for me.

I just HATE spoilers!!! They do just that: spoil the clean lines of a car. If the next car I purchase has a spoiler, I will have it removed at my uncle's body shop. Then, I'll have a nice lip, ala 3-series Bimmer, molded on the top of the trunk lid.

Well, enough of my ranting.

volfy

Although I'll reserve my final comment on the restyled Frontier til I actually see it in person, I must say I have mixed emotions about it.

I like the new headlamp assembly and I hope it offer more than just fancy looks. I've been so used to Euro-spec lighting that when I bought my Frontier, it was a big disappointment. To be fair about it, none of the other compact trucks had any better lighting.

I agree the over-sized riveted fender flares are over-styled. I like the proportions of the '00 4x4 and DR fender flares just fine. I did think the '00 front end needed a little more exitement, and the new look certainly offers that. But again, I won't know for sure how well it looks in person till I see it.

cygnusx1

Same here. I hate roofracks, etc. To me, it's just something that's usually made of cheesy plastic and always ends up fading, cracking, coming loose and so on.

Speaking of waxing, anyone tried any of the Zaino products? I know there a bazillion posts here in Edmunds on it, and most people rave about the shine, but nobody seems to talk about the protection qualities of it. I'm more interested in good old fashioned protection from the elements than show-car shine personally.

cthompson21

I've stuck with Meguire's liquid cleaner/wax for the past few years now, and I'm extremely pleased with the product.

Just use an automotive wash product, not dishsoap, so the wax won't be removed. Then, use the Meguire's Quick Detailer after a wash. It'll take about 10min to wipe the entire truck down, and it will look freshly waxed.

You'll only need to do a full wax 4 or so times a year.

I haven't tried Zaino products, tho.


Check out this page for discounts from carparts.com (especially the 1/3 off):

http://www.homestead.com/therangerstation/Discounts.html

I've got my Gibson cat-back for $180. (I mistakenly posted it as a Borla on the Ranger vs. Taco board, brainfart)

cygnusx1

thanks for the link on the discounts!

I just bought a can of meguire's 26 (it's the Hi-Tech Yellow Carnauba Wax) and was about to put it on the other night when I saw an ad for Meguire's Gold Class. Do you know wha the difference is, or soes it matter. They both say they protect and polish. There's just way too many choices for waxes out there these days.

cthompson21

I think it's all about the same stuff but with different bottles. I just stick to the regular old liquid Meguire's Cleaner/Wax. The 3-step stuff (three different bottles) works incredibly too, but you're talking an all day job to apply.

There are too many different brands and types out there. I wonder how many are the same stuff but in different bottles.

cncman

Hey Vince, here's another good example of that great ford quality with the Xterra rip off escape.
Hasn't even come out yet and they can't get a good transmission in it. Article says raises queations on fords ability to produce a good first year auto.

http://www.blueovalnews.com/escape_trans_problems.htm

scape2

Ouch.