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Bankruptcy and Vehicle Financing

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Comments

  • Hate to burst your bubble, but truly "Big and Famous" lawyers charge 700-800 per hour, not per case. They don't advertise, either.

    Why won't you answer my question about CCCS?
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    NO COMMENT
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,534
    I had to deal with CCCS back in 1996. They actually saved my butt from bankruptcy quite nicely. At the time I was in a bad marriage, the wife wasn't working, and the bills were mounting up fast.

    I made an appointment with CCCS in early 1996, around the same time that I picked up a part-time job delivering pizzas. It was probably the pizza job that saved me more than CCCS, but they at least got my terms more reasonable and liveable.

    I was about $26,000 in credit card debt at the time. A lot of these were still on teaser rates, and some of them were up around the 17-19% range. They got me on a payment plan that would get it totally knocked out in 5 years. Some of the creditors wiped out the interest charge completely, while others reduced it. Only a few stuck me with the standard rate, and I made sure those got paid off the quickest. I forget exactly what my minimum monthly payment was...somewhere in the low $500 range, which ain't bad if you're forecasting paying off $26000 in 60 months! I'd estimate the average interest rate on that ended up being about 8%.

    Anyway, it was a long process, and a lot of work, but I ended up getting it all paid off in about half the time. My last payment was November 1998. If I'd stuck to just the minimum, I would've been paying on that sucker until around April 2001!

    In the long run, I don't think it really hurt my credit rating either. While I was on CCCS, I couldn't apply for a new credit card, couldn't refinance my mortgage with a reputable lender, and I'm sure a new car loan would've been downright evil. But within a half-year of paying my final CCCS payment, I was able to refinance my condo to a competitive rate. Within a year, I was able to get 0.9% on a new car.
  • Is that all you've got? No comment?

    You started this whole thing, not me. Remember that.

    Why wouldn't you even look into CCCS? Andre just posted a story of how it works, and it sounds like it was good for him.

    What about a part-time job? Oh, that's right. You aren't interested in actually paying off your debts. If you were, you would already have a PT job (doing something like Andre did delivering pizzas on nights and weekends) and you would already have contacted CCCS to consolidate or maybe even reduce your debts.

    You didn't try very hard to pay your debts. Sounds like you made a couple phone calls and then decided to go BK. No PT job, no CCCS. Like someone said above, people like you are the reason they are overhauling BK laws. It's too easy to file and people like you who don't really HAVE to file, but choose to, are making it harder on those who have no other choice.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    While whale may be hard on your case his questions are for real. You don't need to comment but pick up on that CCCS. You can E-mail Andre - just look at his profile by clicking on his name and he'll give you that information. Nothing like someone who has been there. Warning: he'll talk you into a Chrysler product... This is another inside joke.

    ANYTHING that helps you pay off the debt in the good old fashioned way is in the long run better for all concerned. Of course in Andre's case it landed him in an Intrepid but this should not be held against the man....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    I am sorry it took 5 years huh? I owe double that so you can double the time...dont think so. 10 years to repay or 10 years to remove bk....I will take the latter and keep the cash. Call me a jerk. I am done. Thanks fezo. BYe all
  • mney6mney6 Posts: 116
  • Poor Mazda. So mistreated. Everyone's out to get him. It's everyone else's fault that he's in this tough spot (heck, he's probably blaming me for his financial problems by now). He doesn't even give debt consolidation/CCCS a shot because he wants the 'easy' way out. He doesn't want to pay the debts he rang up - he wants us to pay for them. He wants to be able to go buy a new car as soon as he has a discharge letter in hand so he can go right back down the path he's been on the last few years.

    What he apparently doesn't get is that not only is he responsible for these debts (nobody made him buy most of that stuff), that he'll be screwing himself and his wife along the way. Mark my words, Mazda, your wife will most certainly be affected by this, probably as much as you are. You will likely have trouble getting another job, whether you leave or get fired, because of your poor credit. Unless you change your ways, you will go right back down the same path and BK won't be an option. Buying a car right after BK would constitute going back down the same road, BTW.

    I'm sure your Big and Famous lawyer has explained all this to you, though.
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    Did I say that I am buying a car for sure? NO. I said that I will see how the sable does.
  • saturnfansaturnfan Posts: 40
    My atty was a very respected authority on bk law. His firm was one of the ones that smacked Sears "upside the head" in Federal court for illegally coercing bankruptcy filers into paying on their credit cards. There are certain procedures involved that Sears knowingly violated, especially when they were dealing with persons going it w/o an atty.

    My atty required the address and acct info to insure against later creditor protests based on failure to receive the court's notice. Best idea would be to bring this with you to the consultation.

    CCCS can help if you're not too far down the road. Some creditors won't cooperate, however, and will upset the apple cart in some cases by filing suits and obtaining garnishments.

    It's the debtor's responsibility to discuss their situation honestly with the attorney. Then, it's the lawyer's responsibility to explain the appropriate chapters in the code and help the client take the right course of action.

    If you own a home with equity beyond your state's exemption (if any), Chapter 13 is another option. In this version, you pay all or a percentage of your debts through monthly installments through the trustee. Kinda like CCCS but creditors are prohibited from taking legal action. If the creditors have a mortgage or car title, you must make full payments if you want to keep the items.

    Chapter 13's still a bad hit on your credit report but I think it drops off at 7 years.

    If bankruptcy's your choice, it doesn't carry the stigma it did years ago. You will still have access to credit in some areas but at higher rates.

    Make sure the atty really spends time with you in the free consultation, not just gives you some forms to fill out. Understanding the implications of your case is very important to doing it right.
  • black_tulipblack_tulip Posts: 438
    "I owe double that so you can double the time...dont think so."

    Shouldn't you have thought of that before charging the amount? Or, did you think somebody else was going to pay?
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    saturnfan, once again you have helped. Thank you. Now the question that I have is what happens if the creditor is not given notice. The problem is that some of these debts that are with my dad are 1+ years past due. The ones that are only in my name, I have all the information. We do not have all the information for most of them. The accounts are sold off to collection agencys that will not give any information. So all I have is the name of the bank and the partial account number that is sometimes listed on the credit report. Equifax only gives the first 10 digits of the account number on the credit report.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    I see whale's point here. Sure you pocket more money here assuming all works as you have it pictured (I can't say for a fact that you are right or wrong) but truth be told your immediate postBK credit will not be the same as someone who fully discharged all debts. Forgetting for the moment the ethical element - figuring when you are caught between the Discover Card and lawyers it is difficult to discuss ethics - I just think it will reflect badly on you in future endevors.

    Best of luck. Kepp us posted on your results.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    I will keep everyone posted. Smiles and hugs for everyone (including whale)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    I was starting to soften my initial posture on all of this but the more I read the more I agree with whale on this.

    No comment on why he won't explore CCCS. The only possible explanation is that he simply does not want to pay his bills.

    It's a good thing the BK laws are getting tougher...but this may really hurt the people who have no choice.

    And...I'm sorry...I still think there is a "stigma" attached to this...a huge stigma!
  • Most people would agree with you about the stigma. I know I would only file BK as an absolute last resort. It's a pride thing, at least for me. It doesn't seem to phase Mr. Mazda, though. You're right. He just doesn't wanna pay up.

    Mazda, why don't you ask your Big Famous lawyer if you can be in his next TV ad (we all know that's where you found him)? Maybe he can pay you under the table so you don't have to claim it in your bankruptcy. You could be a TV star! Next, you could stage an accident at work and get a personal injury lawyer to get you big $. Maybe stage a slip and fall at the grocery store? That would be about as ethical as you're being here.

    I know, I know. It's all Discover's fault!
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    The BK court takes control of your resources - they will force you to give it to your creditors. Please - check this out independently if you don't trust people here, but find out the whole picture before you go screwing up the next 10 years.

    You can do what they will do - identify all of your resources, including your wife's, her potential earnings, your assets, your potential earnings, your Father's, etc. If he is part of the reason you fell out of control, he may be able to help some getting control back.

    Consider part time jobs, whatever. The court does not wipe your slate clean, they figure out how to use everything you own to pay your creditors! Go back to your creditors first - tell them you are near to having to file Ch7, and ask them to reconsider and set up a payment plan. That IS the easiest way out.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    I don't know what state you are in but if it gets to actual BK you can bet all of a sudden your wife becomes an issue. I really urge you to study this further....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • saturnfansaturnfan Posts: 40
    Your atty will normally advise you to list both the collection agency and the original creditor on your petition. The form can indicate the assignment of the debt.

    If you know the bank's name, call a branch and get the address of the installment loan or credit card department that handles the type of loan involved. The absence of the account number can be dealt with, but an address for the credit will be required to be sure they get notified. I think (but your atty will know) that someone not properly notified (but was listed) may be able to reopen the case. In a no asset case, as are most consumer Chapter 7's, there'd be no reason to do so unless there was a claim of fraud to be asserted by the creditor.

    Alfox,

    The court only keeps control over you until the Chapter 7 is discharged. This is usually around 90 days. If you file Chapter 13, the court retains control until the case is completed or turned into a Chapter 7 (as occurs many times when the debtor simply can't make the payments required by the plan).

    Most assets will be exempt, and your atty will advise you if you have items that you'll need to surrender. Then, you can decide what is best. In my case, there were no non-exempt assets.

    Your future earnings will not be involved in a Chapter 7. In a Chapter 13, you will need to make regular payments.

    Just consider your options thoughtfully since this is a serious matter.
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    Thanks saturn. You sound like you know a lot more about it than I do.

    Do you think he should be coming to total strangers on an auto website for this kind of advice? Mazda, if you want personal comiseration fine - be cool with us and we'll be cool with you. But I strongly recommend you get independent advice - meaning NOT from a BK atty before you commit any farther down the BK road.
  • Remember everyone, it is entirely possible to disagree with another person's stated opinions or actions without being extremely rude or condescending. The "Member Conduct" section within the Edmunds.com Town Hall Membership Agreement clearly states "...although interactions within Town Hall occur in cyberspace, everyday manners apply. Please respect and interact with fellow members as you would in any public arena....If you wish to take issue with the statements of other Town Hall members or Edmunds.com staff, please engage in healthy, mature debate and not immature behavior or name-calling. Civility and respect underlie the success of an on-line community such as Town Hall...." If you feel as though this individual is making a mistake by filing for bankruptcy, you certainly are free to say so. Just make sure that your posts are mature and are not intended to ridicule. Thank you.

    Car_man
    Host
    Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    HELLO, alfox? where are you getting your info from? chapter 7 gets rid of all debts unless they are tax, child support or student loans. I do not have any cars that are of high value, own a home or have any money in the bank. So what resources are you talking about? The process takes 5 minutes and only less than 5 perecent of people end up having any property sold to pay off debts. So please get facts. God I am so tired of people talking out of the A**. The process for a chapter 7 is the same not matter if a 50 dollar lawyer files or a 700.00 lawyer files. If you know how to fill out the paper work (like a friend of mine) you can even file yourself. So get off my back. You guys really need to research. BANKRUPTCY IS NOT THE END OF THE FREAKING WORLD. For the final time. I AM CHEAP I AM A [non-permissible content removed]>>>>>I AM A DEADBEAT ....you guys done?

    Look I am filing. End of story. Anything that you have to say (unless it is helpful at all) needs to be posted somewhere else. Saturnfan and rezo have been the only ones that had anything helpful to say. It seems like you guys like to oass judgement on others. Well the last freaking time I checked this was not a MORAL CHAT room. So get off your "i am such a good person" high horse. So you paid your debt...big freaking deal. Good for you that you are such a perefct person. Like i SAID....NO MORAL CLASS!
  • There is an interesting article available here at Edmunds.com that those of you with credit problems should definitely check out. The following piece provides consumers with less than stellar credit advice on how to finance a vehicle: Tips For Subprime Borrowers - Making the Best of Blemished Credit.

    And remember, please try to keep things civil in this forum. Thanks.

    Car_man
    Host
    Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    have had anything useful to say. Good luck, Charlie. Take your medicine.

    Yeah, Car_man, time to kill this one. Thanks for your patience.
  • You're a real piece of work, you know that? Absolutely amazing. I love the fact that you think a $50 per hour lawyer is as good as a $700 per hour lawyer. Guess what? There's a reason one charges so little and the other charges so much - they're worth it.

    You might have to file again because nobody will hire you after this. But it'll be a lot harder to do again by that time, won't it?
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    Everything you guys have said so far (other than saturn and fezo) have been of what you have heard. I have a girl that works with me. She had a bankruptcy and she is working here. I do not think that I will be wanting to work at equifax or the natioanl mint any time soon. So unless you are working in a position wher you handle large amounts of money, you are not going to get denied. I guess everyone that files bankruptcy rides the bus, lives under the bridge and has never ever been able to obtain credit or get a decent job. Oh no, what shall I do? Fear is a garuntee for failure.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,534
    ...the BCOA (Bankruptcy Club Of America). I have a cousin who's in that club...he's not only a member, he's the president!

    I wanna be just like him when I grow up...still living at home in his 50's without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of!
  • mney6mney6 Posts: 116
    I see alot of good people have their credit ruined because of a bad spouse.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,534
    ...I didn't realize that a spouse's credit could affect your own creditt. See, you CAN learn something on these Edmund's forums!

    I guess I just got off real lucky. My wife, it turns out, had bad credit. She had a previous bankruptcy that I didn't find out about until after the fact. After that bankruptcy, she ran up a whole slew of other charges. So after I got married, would those creditors have been able to go after me, as well?

    In the end, the only thing I was left with was all the credit card debt that I was handling through CCCS. All those cards were in my name, so I got stuck with the bill. None of her previous creditors ever tried to come after me though.
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Posts: 202
    Ok so I file and her credit report will say BANKRUPT right. Or they can sue her for a account that her name is not on! RIGGGGGHHHT. OK. I am glad that you guys are soooo smart. If you are refering to the fact that she will have to put most things in her name for a while...she will. So what are you exactly saying huh?
This discussion has been closed.