Years ago I had a truck that was supposedly rigorously maintained by the dealer. I would take it in annually and have them do all checks and repairs needed. The owners manual also said just check the fluid. Well at about 90K, outside the guarantee of course, the manual transmission locked. Had to completely replace it. The fluid had never been changed. Changes on the 30K schedule could have avoided the issue according to the tranny specialist.
Yeah, do at least a drain and fill at 30K. Also drain and fill the brake and power steering fluid.
In 1998 I purchased a brand new Subaru Outback and I have to say that I am completely UNSATISFIED with my purchase! This car has been recalled 3 times (once we were not informed of the recall) and has been in an out of the shop!
Let me start by saying that Cypress Coast Nissan in Seaside CA gave us a horrible deal and this was comfirmed by a Subaru American Credit associate when I inguired about a possible payoff of my loan. The only satisfaction I recieved from this particular dealer is that they talked us into an extended warrenty for this problematic vehicle.
We have had oil seals replaced twice, the master cylinders were recalled and replaced, the paint had a defect and my car has been in the shop for a week now with serious engine problems that no-one seems to be able to diagnose. We were told today that after reassembling the engine that it still wont run and that it would be at least a week before we will get it back!
This car, that I spend a tremendous amount of my hard earned money on every month, broke down on me un an unsafe location and Subaru and their chosen towing agency left me on the side of the road for 3 1/2 hours in over 90 degree heat. On top of all of this, we were on hold with Subaru customer service to get a rental car and no one would take our call! I am now without a car to drive (and have been for 7 days) and no one who can tell me whats wrong with my car!
I don't want this car anymore. I don't trust it and I certainly don't want to make anymore payments on a car that continually breaks down. What happens when my extended warrenty wears out?
If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it!
Sorry to hear about your problems. It sounds like you've got a lemon, for sure. All brands get them, even Subaru.
Here at Edmunds we have a rep from Subaru of America, her name is Patti Mickel, aka Subaru Team. You can see her post just above (#2). If you want to contact her directly, she may be able to offer some assistance, as she is in customer relations. I know Patti checks these board as often as she can, and she may even try to contact you. She's great, and I know she'll do everything in her power to help you. In the meantime, try to keep your chin up.
I change all fluids within the first year on all cars I have ever owned. The first changeout is the most important as it gets the metal particles out that accompany break in. This applies whether it's diff fluids or tranny fluids.
I'm sorry to read about your vehicle problems. Please try to give us a call back today. Monday's can be a bit crazy. I'm not sure what time you tried to call, but if you hang in there (it should only be for about 2 minutes) a CS Representative can start a case for you. Please have your Vehicle Identification Number. If you can't, the name of the dealer will help so the Representative can contact them for information. We will do everything that we can to resolve the situation. While I personally will not be able to take the case, I will work with the Representative to make sure you are satisfied. Please ask the Rep. to let me know once the case is started.
I'm sure we can help and, once again, I'm sorry you are having problems.
Over the weekend, I replaced the plugs, and the fuel and air filters. The problem persisted. I took the car back to the dealer this am and they have diagnosed it as a bad coil. They also want to replace the plugs because "When the coil goes it takes the plugs with it" Has any one ever heard of a bad coil taking out brand neww (Less than 100 miles) plugs?
I am also being told that when the coil went, it took out not only the plugs but the plug wires. And that the wires are not a warranty item. I can understand that the plugs are not covered, but the wires aren't either? If it was a bad coil that caused the problem with the wires... Are the wires covered under the 3/30?
The service department also mentioned my paying a "diagnostic fee" which when I questioned it, was suddenly dropped by "The boss"
If I had my car I would look in the booklet and see what is and isn't covered but it is at the dealer. I'll have to do some reading on this.
from what I understand - - - more a likelihood that the wires took out the coil. Both the coil and the spark plugs/wires are 3/26 items. If your dealer is unsure, please have them call us.
I am also being told that when the coil went, it took out not only the plugs but the plug wires. And that the wires are not a warranty item. I can understand that the plugs are not covered, but the wires aren't either? If it was a bad coil that caused the problem with the wires... Are the wires covered under the 3/30?
The service department also mentioned my paying a "diagnostic fee" which when I questioned it, was suddenly dropped by "The boss"
If I had my car I would look in the booklet and see what is and isn't covered but it is at the dealer. I'll have to do some reading on this.
OK, I order my tires for the new wheels today and I just want to confirm the lug torque. Actually, how many pounds is it? The guys at Costco had it listed @ 72lbs. I would be inclined to take it as true, since it was read off of a chart... but after their database yielded a plus one recommendation for tires as 215/55/16 and 215/60/16 is nowhere to be found, I'll feel better that I'd checked with y'all.
First, my apologies to everyone about the double post, I have no Idea how it happened.
Next, Patti saves the day...again. When I called the dealer back and mentioned what Patti had posted to me, Things got done, quickly. A mechanic stayed overtime so that I could pick the car up that night. The entire repair was covered under warranty and the car runs wonderfully. The only hitch in the process was when I politely asked to see the plugs they removed (Bosch Platinum 2's with less than 50 miles on them) I was first told over the phone that the service tech might have thrown them away but they would look. When I got there to pick up the car I was told that the parts dept. had already bagged them for return to S.O.A. which conjured up the last scene from raiders of the lost ark with the ark being tucked away in a wearhouse.
Oh well, I lose my nice expensive plugs, but I have my car back and running well.
Once again, S.O.A. having a rep here at Edmunds has been a very good thing. Patti, you showed that Subaru corporate cares about its customers and wants to get things resolved. Thank you very much.
Patti, If you happen to see this, I took my car back to dealer on Monday and again they could not duplicate my stalling problem. I drove with technician that day and also could not get the problem to occur. They called the tech line yesterday and Subaru advised using mid-grade Exxon and pouring in a bottle of BG product called 44K. As I was leaving the dealership yesterday the bucking, shakes and hesitation started again so I turned around and went back. Had the tecnician drive it and finally he experienced all the fun. He suggested we proceed with the Subaru reccomendation and go from there. I filled up with the Exxon this moring and will pour in the 44K today at noon time. Fingers are crossed.........
You got it, That's exactly the quote/scene that was going through my mind.
A darkened parts dept, ominous music, row after row of dusty shelves and bins, and my poor platinum 2's being wheeled in by an old man and then left on a shelf.
Maybe I ought to call in Mulder and Sculley to investigate..... They've had to deal with this type of thing before.
You got it, That's exactly the quote/scene that was going through my mind.
A darkened parts dept, ominous music, row after row of dusty shelves and bins, and my poor platinum 2's being wheeled in by an old man and then left on a shelf.
Maybe I ought to call in Mulder and Sculley to investigate..... They've had to deal with this type of thing before.
it's great stuff (expensive though)....though it's really needed to be using the mid-grade with the BG44K. Using regular with it is more than adequate
my old Camry....every 60,000 miles I used to replace the spark plug wires, when I replaced the spark plugs. Many times it probably wasn't needed....but it was piece of mind for me.
99' Forester 41,500 miles, straight hiway miles(no off-road). Front wheel bearing has to be replaced. I'm the third forester owner in a facility off 200 people that this has happened to (all between 40,000 and 50,000 miles). Calling various dealers in North East show that this problem is very common (left rear replaced most often)and expensive. Some dealerships do not put Forester bearings back on the rear---they use Legacy bearings which they feel are more robust. Front Legacy bearings are unfortunately not compatible. Some of the Parts Department people feel it is a seal problem. In any event this is a Subaru problem and should not be a Customer problem. Bearings should not fail this early (if ever). There is either a supplier problem (bad parts), a design problem, or an installation problem. In any event it is wide spread. This cost should not be passed on to the Customer. The cost should be adsorbed by Subaru.
because you're refreshing the screen after you post instead of using thge back arrow or just loading the subaru crew board again entirely, right folks?
Sorry to hear the dealer didn't permanently fix the stalling problem with the new hardware. I understand how frustrating it can be to know a problem exists, but not have it correctly fixed.
I had a V6 Camry that had a similar problem. When the engine was cold, the car would stall when I hit the excellerator from a dead stop. If the car was moving and I tried to excellerate quickly, the engine would stumble. I took it to the dealer, who experienced the same problem. They spent 3 full days diagnosing it and then gave it back to me without charging for the work. The mechanics gave up in frustration when they couldn't pinpoint the problem. Since the car was way out of warranty, they were not under any obligation to continue investigating.
jimmyp1 is right, the reason you are double posting is that you are clicking your browser's refresh button after submitting a post. The refresh button re-submits the post.
My '87 Grand Prix had a similar stumbling problem. You'd be driving along, light throttle, and then you'd need to accelerate and it would hesitate. The dealer wasn't able to determine the problem - and couldn't duplicate (go figure!). Finally it happened on the way out of the dealer's parking lot. I pulled right back into the service bay and they finally were able to figure out the problem. It was a faulty EGR valve. Apparently, they redesigned them in later models, but mine had the 'bad' design. Lucky for me, it was an emission warranty item.
Wonder if after the new plugs, coil, etc. that you need to do a ECM reset?
I have a 2001 Outback that I dearly love EXCEPT for the fact that I've had to have the rotors turned twice already and then new brake pads. The first rotor turning was at 17,000 miles. I figured it was a fluke until I had to go back again at 34,000 mi when they turned them again and gave me new pads. What really ticked me off, though, was that the dealer shop was blaming me - saying I ride the brakes or hit them too hard consistently. This is my fourth car and have never had this problem, so I doubt it's that,(aside from the fact that I don't ride the brakes). I am rather concerned though because my warrantee is up. The dealer refused to even acknowledge the possibility of there being anything wrong with the car. Anyone with a similar problem or suggestions?
I had a drift to the right on my subaru Outback and brought it to a dealer in Delray Beach. First I was told it is normal for the wagon to drift and when I didn't buy that they told me they rotated the tires and brought them up to specs. It took five times over a period of three monthe before they corrected it. When I called Subaru customer service they told me they had no control over the dealer. Since that time, my keyless entry doesnt always work, my front and rear doors don't always open, and I get a smell of gas. Yesterday, my seat heater went on in 80 degrees temperature. I had an appointment with the Subaru dealer in Brooklyn for a 7500 mile check and the warranty issues. When I got there at 7:00 AM I was told they couldn't service the warranty problems. I told them they had to do something about the seat heater. While sitting there I called Subaru Customer Service and was told they have no control over the dealers. This is after they sent me an email they they would get in touch with the dealer. I have come to the conclusion that if you don't buy your car at the place you are trying to have warranty work done, they are not interested in doing the work. Fortunately there is a Lemon Law in New York State.
Can you please call us at 1-800-SUBARU3? It seems that another set of eyes needs to get involved. Ask the Rep. to start a case and let them know that I'd like to see the file?
I bought my LL Bean wagon in Illinois and subsequently moved to Florida. I use Delray Subaru for my service and have found their service to be excellent. I've never felt the dealership would refuse to honor warranty work. BTW, what did Delray Subaru do to correct the "drifting" problem? So often, this seems to be caused by improper inflation of all tires.
Early brake problems don't seem to be common. The main complaint was with squeeky brakes in the AM, but Subaru came out with a shim kit that quieted those, and then a running change that prevented the noise on newer models. So it is IMO an anomaly.
What about getting lifetime brakes from one of those aftermarket shops that offers them? Just a thought.
Lemon Laws can be invoked when a dealer fails to fix the same problem repeatedly. In MD it's 4 times, except for brake failure, which only takes once.
Call 800SUBARU3 and politely ask them to open up a case number. Go back to the dealer and ask them to document and fix all the issues you mentioned. Then, come back here once you have the case number, and I'll put you in touch with our SoA rep, Patti, who can put pressure on the dealers.
I just read through your case file. I am confident that our Rep. is doing all that she can to get your concerns addressed. It is being handled as a priority issue and I'm very sorry about the way you were treated at the dealership. While we cannot force a dealer to "adjust" their technicians schedule, we can provide guideance to them on appropriate customer responses.
I have sent a message to your Representative and the manager for your area of the country. I'm sure you will hear from them the moment they have an action plan lined up.
darice--I had this same problem--had to have all 4 rotors turned by 20,000 miles on our Forester. You will be happy to know that it is not the fault of your driving habits or the car. I talked to a couple Subie mechanics, and they said the problem comes from your dealer or shop over-torquing your lug nuts (usually during tire rotation or having winters put on) and this will cause the rotors to warp if you do a lot of heavy breaking, esp. on a warm day. The lug nuts should always be tightened to 65 ft.-lbs. of torque (plus or minus 7 lbs.) Some garages and dealers have been known to torque as high as 90-95 lbs., which will definitely stress your rotors and cause warpage over time.
Personally I'm not keen on turning rotors, as I think this causes problems down the line. Ithrow mine away the minute they approach minimum spec (not a Subaru).
If they have little tiny grooves in them, I'd tend to just leave them and install new pads and let the pads break into the tiny grooves. If they are warped, I'd put on brand new ones.That way you know who to blame if something goes wrong too quickly. The difference in price between taking off old ones and turning them and taking off old ones and installing new ones (which may in fact be slightly turned anyway as part of the price), can't be a whole lot and may give a lot more satisfiaction for only an extra $50.
Blaming the dealer for over-torquing is a rather facile deflection of what could be another problem entirely. The idea that Subaru dealers are blindly bending rotors day after day because trained gorillas are unable to grasp the concept, stretches my own credulity. I feel the answer lies elsewhere and may be a combination of driver habits, types of pad material and possibly even slightly too undersized rotors.
A rotor can warp easily if, say, you have just finished a downhill run and hit a small puddle or creek run-off, etc. Also from towing, oversized loads, etc.
There's not a lot of slack these days in rotor design IMO.
I have major problems with dealers blaming the driver for the way he drives as the reason for quick break wearing and other troubles. Cars are built so well these days, that these factors should be taken into consideration.
Personally, I feel this a defect in the design due to cost-saving.
To give you an idea, I had a V6 Camry, that I regularly would drive like a sports car. I replaced the rear pads for the first time at 80K miles and the front at 110K miles.
Unless you are powersliding and street racing the car, or modifying the car extensively, for brake pads to wear out, or for rotors to warp at only 20K miles sounds like a poor manufacturer design.
The BMW board has been complaining extensively about breaks and transmission wearing out / failures being blaimed by BMW and their dealers on the way they are driven. Jeez, I thought this car was a sports sedan!!!
Exactly. If the warp rotor problem were CHRONIC, you'd really have to stop blaming owners or dealers and get to the manufacturer to explain this.
As for what constitutes 'chronic', I'll give you my two cents...I'd say around 8%-10% complaint rate, so 8 to 10 out of 100 similar cars warping rotors prematurely (industry standard for similar weight and HP cars).
I have no idea of failure rate on Subaru rotors, so this may not apply.
YellowBikeDon was right - Liberty Subaru in Libertyville, IL does excellent service work. Today, they fixed my alignment the way it SHOULD be.
You may remember above somewhere that my original dealer had recently done the alignment and called it 'within spec'. Hardly. The steering wheel had to be turned 2 degrees or more off center to the right to go straight. Letting go of the wheel immediately made it drift left. And it also developed a mysterious slight wobble like effect at highway speeds through the steering wheel. And I only originally brought it in because it was just ever so slightly drifting left, but steering straight for the past 20,000 miles. Why is it so hard to get an alignment 'correct'?
Anyway, I'm happy now. No vibration or wobble, steers straight, doesn't pull. Pure bliss. Well, ok, pure bliss would be a dark blue Blitzen, but I digress....
And if anyone needs the alignment specs for 2000-02 Legacy/Outback, including the SUS, I have a nice color printed copy showing all the measurements and what they mean. I believe the alignment system was a Hunter brand.
My parents have a Subaru Outback, which, more often than not, will not start if it has been sitting out in the sun. It happened the other day, so they took it to the dealer, who, of course, found no problem. They let it sit in the sun and it started right up. The next day, at my parents' house, it sat in the sun and wouldn't start again. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this is happenning, since the dealership seems to have none. My parents are not spring chickens, and this is becoming a problem.
We have a Forester and we were having a devil of a time getting it to start in COLD weather. It had a very rough start that required us to keep tapping the gas pedal so it wouldn't stall. We took it to the dealer last week and they said Subaru had just issued a recall on the air flow sensor/thermostat (?). They replaced it free of charge and things are back to normal.
I'd agree you can have a number of causes for warped rotors, poor design being one of them. But I still think over-torquing the wheels (not necessarily by Subie dealers) is the main culprit. In fairness to my dealer and Subaru, they only turned all four rotors after the braking vibration in the front couldn't be corrected to my satisfaction. But I've had the same kind of problem crop up with a previously owned Toyota and BMW, so I think we're all on the right track in saying manufacturers in general need to beef up their disc brakes to better meet the demands of daily driving.
Or if shops are bending the rotors that easily (I mean, by now you'd think most shops would know this common error), I think the factory should beef them up.
Not starting in the sun -- I suspect that the sun and the starting problem are not, in fact, related but coincidental, since engine heat would create lots more heat than sunlight. So the car should fail to start with a hot engine if heat were the sole issue. Make sense?
There's gotta be a leak in the exhaust somewhere, maybe throwing off the O2 sensor (and making the engine run rich, hence the mileage). Sounds like a tough one to resolve, hopefully the dealer can get their best tech on this case.
This is not a story about a Subaru, but it does touch upon the heat/start issue. My brother had an old pickup that had had some restorative work by an idiot. The truck would start cold and run like the dickens (meaning "well"). But if you stopped the truck, frequently it would not start until it was cooled off -- though one could get it to start if you pushed it, or let it run down an incline. The problem was a fuel line too near a manifold. If the engine was running, enough fuel went through to keep the stream from being interrupted by "vapor-lock". Once it was stopped, the fuel vaporized and the truck would not start unless fuel were pulled through the line again -- pushing the truck or coasting down an incline.
Perhaps a hot sunny day could be effecting the fuel line?
Comments
Yeah, do at least a drain and fill at 30K. Also drain and fill the brake and power steering fluid.
Let me start by saying that Cypress Coast Nissan in Seaside CA gave us a horrible deal and this was comfirmed by a Subaru American Credit associate when I inguired about a possible payoff of my loan. The only satisfaction I recieved from this particular dealer is that they talked us into an extended warrenty for this problematic vehicle.
We have had oil seals replaced twice, the master cylinders were recalled and replaced, the paint had a defect and my car has been in the shop for a week now with serious engine problems that no-one seems to be able to diagnose. We were told today that after reassembling the engine that it still wont run and that it would be at least a week before we will get it back!
This car, that I spend a tremendous amount of my hard earned money on every month, broke down on me un an unsafe location and Subaru and their chosen towing agency left me on the side of the road for 3 1/2 hours in over 90 degree heat. On top of all of this, we were on hold with Subaru customer service to get a rental car and no one would take our call! I am now without a car to drive (and have been for 7 days) and no one who can tell me whats wrong with my car!
I don't want this car anymore. I don't trust it and I certainly don't want to make anymore payments on a car that continually breaks down. What happens when my extended warrenty wears out?
If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it!
Here at Edmunds we have a rep from Subaru of America, her name is Patti Mickel, aka Subaru Team. You can see her post just above (#2). If you want to contact her directly, she may be able to offer some assistance, as she is in customer relations. I know Patti checks these board as often as she can, and she may even try to contact you. She's great, and I know she'll do everything in her power to help you. In the meantime, try to keep your chin up.
Bob
IdahoDoug
I'm sure we can help and, once again, I'm sorry you are having problems.
Patti
Over the weekend, I replaced the plugs, and the fuel and air filters. The problem persisted. I took the car back to the dealer this am and they have diagnosed it as a bad coil. They also want to replace the plugs because "When the coil goes it takes the plugs with it" Has any one ever heard of a bad coil taking out brand neww (Less than 100 miles) plugs?
I am also being told that when the coil went, it took out not only the plugs but the plug wires. And that the wires are not a warranty item. I can understand that the plugs are not covered, but the wires aren't either? If it was a bad coil that caused the problem with the wires... Are the wires covered under the 3/30?
The service department also mentioned my paying a "diagnostic fee" which when I questioned it, was suddenly dropped by "The boss"
If I had my car I would look in the booklet and see what is and isn't covered but it is at the dealer. I'll have to do some reading on this.
John
I hope this resolves it for you!
Patti
I am also being told that when the coil went, it took out not only the plugs but the plug wires. And that the wires are not a warranty item. I can understand that the plugs are not covered, but the wires aren't either? If it was a bad coil that caused the problem with the wires... Are the wires covered under the 3/30?
The service department also mentioned my paying a "diagnostic fee" which when I questioned it, was suddenly dropped by "The boss"
If I had my car I would look in the booklet and see what is and isn't covered but it is at the dealer. I'll have to do some reading on this.
John
OK, I order my tires for the new wheels today and I just want to confirm the lug torque. Actually, how many pounds is it? The guys at Costco had it listed @ 72lbs. I would be inclined to take it as true, since it was read off of a chart... but after their database yielded a plus one recommendation for tires as 215/55/16 and 215/60/16 is nowhere to be found, I'll feel better that I'd checked with y'all.
TIA
-Dave
so, what's a good number 58 -> 72lbs?
-Dave
Wires tend to be a "wear item", but you can try to argue, if it's a wear item....why isn't there a maintenance interval for the wires?
Tan: FWIW, Miatas are notorious for needing new wires at about 30k. The aftermarket makes a fortune selling thicker-than-stock plug wires.
-juice
Next, Patti saves the day...again. When I called the dealer back and mentioned what Patti had posted to me, Things got done, quickly. A mechanic stayed overtime so that I could pick the car up that night. The entire repair was covered under warranty and the car runs wonderfully.
The only hitch in the process was when I politely asked to see the plugs they removed (Bosch Platinum 2's with less than 50 miles on them) I was first told over the phone that the service tech might have thrown them away but they would look. When I got there to pick up the car I was told that the parts dept. had already bagged them for return to S.O.A. which conjured up the last scene from raiders of the lost ark with the ark being tucked away in a wearhouse.
Oh well, I lose my nice expensive plugs, but I have my car back and running well.
Once again, S.O.A. having a rep here at Edmunds has been a very good thing. Patti, you showed that Subaru corporate cares about its customers and wants to get things resolved. Thank you very much.
John
-juice
"What top men"...
"TOP MEN!"
-mike
If you happen to see this, I took my car back to dealer on Monday and again they could not duplicate my stalling problem. I drove with technician that day and also could not get the problem to occur. They called the tech line yesterday and Subaru advised using mid-grade Exxon and pouring in a bottle of BG product called 44K. As I was leaving the dealership yesterday the bucking, shakes and hesitation started again so I turned around and went back. Had the tecnician drive it and finally he experienced all the fun. He suggested we proceed with the Subaru reccomendation and go from there.
I filled up with the Exxon this moring and will pour in the 44K today at noon time. Fingers are crossed.........
A darkened parts dept, ominous music, row after row of dusty shelves and bins, and my poor platinum 2's being wheeled in by an old man and then left on a shelf.
Maybe I ought to call in Mulder and Sculley to investigate..... They've had to deal with this type of thing before.
John
A darkened parts dept, ominous music, row after row of dusty shelves and bins, and my poor platinum 2's being wheeled in by an old man and then left on a shelf.
Maybe I ought to call in Mulder and Sculley to investigate..... They've had to deal with this type of thing before.
John
my old Camry....every 60,000 miles I used to replace the spark plug wires, when I replaced the spark plugs. Many times it probably wasn't needed....but it was piece of mind for me.
Back to the dealer.
Paul, any luck on your issue?
And if I'm still double posting does anyone know why? It's not intentional.
Jim
I had a V6 Camry that had a similar problem. When the engine was cold, the car would stall when I hit the excellerator from a dead stop. If the car was moving and I tried to excellerate quickly, the engine would stumble. I took it to the dealer, who experienced the same problem. They spent 3 full days diagnosing it and then gave it back to me without charging for the work. The mechanics gave up in frustration when they couldn't pinpoint the problem. Since the car was way out of warranty, they were not under any obligation to continue investigating.
jimmyp1 is right, the reason you are double posting is that you are clicking your browser's refresh button after submitting a post. The refresh button re-submits the post.
Ty
The new models got a new bearing design, I believe. I'm sure that Imprezas did, FWIW.
-juice
Wonder if after the new plugs, coil, etc. that you need to do a ECM reset?
-Brian
maybe if you changed your handle to "ReRun" it might stop ;D j/k
Like Jim said, you could be doing the refresh thing.
-Dave
-Colin
Thanks.
John
I'm sorry about the problem.
Thanks!
Patti
Don
What about getting lifetime brakes from one of those aftermarket shops that offers them? Just a thought.
Lemon Laws can be invoked when a dealer fails to fix the same problem repeatedly. In MD it's 4 times, except for brake failure, which only takes once.
Call 800SUBARU3 and politely ask them to open up a case number. Go back to the dealer and ask them to document and fix all the issues you mentioned. Then, come back here once you have the case number, and I'll put you in touch with our SoA rep, Patti, who can put pressure on the dealers.
They can lose a franchise for being that lazy.
-juice
Ed
I have sent a message to your Representative and the manager for your area of the country. I'm sure you will hear from them the moment they have an action plan lined up.
I'm sorry.
Patti
You will be happy to know that it is not the fault of your driving habits or the car. I talked to a couple Subie mechanics, and they said the problem comes from your dealer or shop over-torquing your lug nuts (usually during tire rotation or having winters put on) and this will cause the rotors to warp if you do a lot of heavy breaking, esp. on a warm day. The lug nuts should always be tightened to 65 ft.-lbs. of torque (plus or minus 7 lbs.) Some garages and dealers have been known to torque as high as 90-95 lbs., which will definitely stress your rotors and cause warpage over time.
If they have little tiny grooves in them, I'd tend to just leave them and install new pads and let the pads break into the tiny grooves. If they are warped, I'd put on brand new ones.That way you know who to blame if something goes wrong too quickly. The difference in price between taking off old ones and turning them and taking off old ones and installing new ones (which may in fact be slightly turned anyway as part of the price), can't be a whole lot and may give a lot more satisfiaction for only an extra $50.
Blaming the dealer for over-torquing is a rather facile deflection of what could be another problem entirely. The idea that Subaru dealers are blindly bending rotors day after day because trained gorillas are unable to grasp the concept, stretches my own credulity. I feel the answer lies elsewhere and may be a combination of driver habits, types of pad material and possibly even slightly too undersized rotors.
A rotor can warp easily if, say, you have just finished a downhill run and hit a small puddle or creek run-off, etc. Also from towing, oversized loads, etc.
There's not a lot of slack these days in rotor design IMO.
Personally, I feel this a defect in the design due to cost-saving.
To give you an idea, I had a V6 Camry, that I regularly would drive like a sports car. I replaced the rear pads for the first time at 80K miles and the front at 110K miles.
Unless you are powersliding and street racing the car, or modifying the car extensively, for brake pads to wear out, or for rotors to warp at only 20K miles sounds like a poor manufacturer design.
The BMW board has been complaining extensively about breaks and transmission wearing out / failures being blaimed by BMW and their dealers on the way they are driven. Jeez, I thought this car was a sports sedan!!!
As for what constitutes 'chronic', I'll give you my two cents...I'd say around 8%-10% complaint rate, so 8 to 10 out of 100 similar cars warping rotors prematurely (industry standard for similar weight and HP cars).
I have no idea of failure rate on Subaru rotors, so this may not apply.
You may remember above somewhere that my original dealer had recently done the alignment and called it 'within spec'. Hardly. The steering wheel had to be turned 2 degrees or more off center to the right to go straight. Letting go of the wheel immediately made it drift left. And it also developed a mysterious slight wobble like effect at highway speeds through the steering wheel. And I only originally brought it in because it was just ever so slightly drifting left, but steering straight for the past 20,000 miles. Why is it so hard to get an alignment 'correct'?
Anyway, I'm happy now. No vibration or wobble, steers straight, doesn't pull. Pure bliss. Well, ok, pure bliss would be a dark blue Blitzen, but I digress....
-Brian
Bob
And if anyone needs the alignment specs for 2000-02 Legacy/Outback, including the SUS, I have a nice color printed copy showing all the measurements and what they mean. I believe the alignment system was a Hunter brand.
-Brian
Don
Not starting in the sun -- I suspect that the sun and the starting problem are not, in fact, related but coincidental, since engine heat would create lots more heat than sunlight. So the car should fail to start with a hot engine if heat were the sole issue. Make sense?
There's gotta be a leak in the exhaust somewhere, maybe throwing off the O2 sensor (and making the engine run rich, hence the mileage). Sounds like a tough one to resolve, hopefully the dealer can get their best tech on this case.
-juice
Perhaps a hot sunny day could be effecting the fuel line?