Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

ateixeira

Interesting data. I'd say go to your own dealer and look at service prices for any car before buying, if you're going to use them for service.

-juice

idahodoug

Juice said:

>On 2001s that is not common, especially with such low mileage. I usually suggest people with Phase I engines (up to 1999) have the front seals replaced at 90k along with the timing belt, since the labor is paid for and it's cheap insurance.

Just to clarify something regulars know, only the 2.5 Phase 1 has seal issues - Outback models. Lucky Legacy owners like me have the bulletproof 2.2L engine that doesn't have these problems. (snicker)..

IdahoDoug

nippononly

the 2.2L in my OBS, and when I posted that the front seals were beginning to go at 115K, about what I would expect, people posted in reply to say that was outrageously low mileage...

...how long do people really expect these little rubber seals to go? They are in a high-stress environment, and they are not designed to last forever...they satisfied me for durability...

dcab

I've got a 97 Outback with 57K. How likely is it that my engine will develop these seal issues and how serious a problem are they?

nippononly

to have the front camshaft seals changed whenever you do the timing belt. They are not a big deal anyway, and they will last as long as the timing belt, at least.

Yours is the first year with the phase 1 2.5L right?

idahodoug

I'm assuming OBS means an outback model - thought they were all 2.5s?

I was at the Sube dealer here and they had a beautiful GT sedan's engine all apart on the bench. The owner had ignored an oil leak (oil pump seal) and let it run low several times. It was interesting to actually look at and touch the main bearings and the thrust bearing marks. Also, the tech told me that a Subaru can be overfilled with oil up to 15mms above the full mark with no problems (I'd noted that the crank arms can't hit the oil due to the horizontally opposed layout). Nice to know, and I'm tempted to overfill mine since it adds some cooling and wear capabilities. Comments? As you know, I already use synthetic so this would officially push me into the obsessive zone for maintenance, eh? Next I'll start putting a blanket on it every night....

IdahoDoug

dcab

I believe that the 96 Outback has a 2.5 engine that uses 89 octane gas and that the 97 Outback 2.5 was first to use 87 octane, but not the first year for the 2.5.

OBS is the Outback Sport.

rsholland

Outback Sports were all 2.2L cars. The 2.5L OBS didn't debut until MY2002.

Bob

bat1161

My wife, who has no interest in cars except that I take her from point A to point B, recently saw a report on tv about chips in car paint. They said that until you can get the touch up paint, use clear nail polish. It will protect the area from rusting.

Now I have to ask to use her nail polish for the couple of nicks I recently noticed.

Mark

paisan

I've heard that too.

-mike

ateixeira

Cheap and easy clear coat, I guess.

-juice

ateixeira

Yes, '96 was the first 2.5l, but that made 155hp and required premium fuel. When the '97 came out, it gained 10hp on 87 octane, and was named the Phase I.

The '95 Outback had a 2.2l. The Outback Sport had a 2.2l up until MY2003.

Doug: my only concern would be that it would take longer for the oil to reach operating temps. If you take a lot of short trips, I'd avoid that.

-juice

stevek

4+ inches of fresh snow, all wheel drive and a new set of Dunlop Winter SPort M2's, V B rockin'

stevek

nygreg

2" in less than a minute. Now that's a snow storm!

Greg

bhoover

I recently bought a '92 Loyale with relatively high mileage. (173k) Everything looked and sounded great. Supposedly it had a newly installed engine with history unknown to me. A few days ago while driving, it developed a knocking sound which a mechanic friend and I diagnosed as rod knock. I've been told that my only options are to either rebuild this engine or replace it with another one. I've also heard that they just keep going with the knock. Is there anyone who has experienced this and can tell me the truth about rod knock in these cars and what should really be done? I added an oil thickener which has gotten rid of the noise, but I'm sure that hasn't solved the problem totally. Is this really the end of the engine?

paisan

I'm pretty sure a rod-knock would not go away with an oil thickener.

IMHO it's valve lifter noise. Very common on 1980s and early 90s hydrolic lifter subarus. What the problem is/was is that the oil-pump seal would breakdown over time and beging to suck-in air causing the oil to foam up and thus not pump up the lifters. This would cause a horrible tapping noise. Thicker oil resists the foaming and thus quiets it down. I used to run 10-40 and sometimes 15-50 or 20-50 in my XT6 when the lifter noise was real bad. I'd look into getting the oil pump done and/or lifters.

-mike

mikenk

Several posts back, there was the question about why the Subaru 5 year maintenance costs were so high. For a data junkie like me, that was like a bone to a dog.

According to Intellichoice, the Subaru 5 year manintenance costs (not repair) is $3055 for an Outback Limited wagon, versus $1342 for a Camry.

I checked with local Dallas dealers. The real numbers are $1342 for the Subaru and $1482 for the Camry based on dealer recommendations. That is a whopping $1713 difference for the Subaru.

I emailed Intellichoice and asked why. Amazingly, I got a response. Their answer was that Subaru recommends changing shocks at 50k miles for $910 while no other manufacturer does. I see nothing in my manual or in my dealer recommendations for that as a routine maintenance. Has anyone heard of that?

Of course, that leaves another $800 unaccounted for. I assume they must have cleverly added some other things. It certainly appears that Intellichoice has an issue with Subaru and are playing games with numbers.

I am waiting for another response as I challenged his response as being incorrect.

Mike

fibber2

LOL... It took me a minute to pick up on SteveK's posts and your reply. ;-)

Steve

celica115

^__^ ...

otis123

Mikenk,

What is the transaxle fluid? I just had my 30K service done on my LLBean. It included everything but this item. Is it the differential fluid - front AND rear? My Subaru mechanic (who is GREAT) said he wouldn't even look at those fluids until 90K?

Ralph

lspiva

Hi. Just want to ask a general advice. I am going to do an oil change on 03 Forester with a little bit less than 4,500 miles on it. This is actually my second oil change, the last one I did when car was 3 months old and had 1,900 miles on it. Last time I put Penzoil Syntetic 10W30. I am changind oil every 4 months. So will it make a difference to use Syntetic 5W30 during the winter months? I live in San Francisco area and temperture here never goes below 35F. I would be appreaciated for your responses. Thanks. Leo

ateixeira

I believe the front diffy shares fluid with the tranny. It's 75w90 gear oil or ATF.

The rear diffy is separate and uses 75w90 gear oil.

Leo: once you go synthetic, I'd keep using it. No need to switch back and forth.

-juice

sfdriver

Mike,

Thanks for following up with Intellichoice. The shocks are a new one - I've driven cars well past 100k without changing them.

I wonder if Intellichoice added the timing belt change also, as my coworker with a CRV has commented that he has a timing chain that does not need replacing. o, and how much does that cabin air filter cost to replace?

ateixeira

The timing belt interval for my Forester calls for an inspection at 90k, change at 105k miles. That should not figure into 5 years maintenance costs.

-juice

texan5

Is the engine on the Forrester an interference or non-interference type?

texan5

mrdetailer

Well I have a 1991, which was listed by consumer reports, or any other magazine as having a medium to poor maintenance record, so I can give an older owners view of possible future expectations.

Shocks at 55K?????????????? Unless they are drastically altered that is an absurd cost to figure in. I've taken my Subaru 4 times into shock specialists who've driven it and said that the struts were not shot yet and I have over 130K and 11 years. I keep taking it in annually because I can't believe that they last so long. Absurd to include that in my estimate. Never had struts last that long. Best in the business IMO. Makes sense since they are designed to drive over rough roads.

Should everyone change engine seals changed when timing belt is changed. Oh, Yes. But recommended maintenance on the newer vehicles is not until 105K. Changing timing belt and seals and water pump at 120K cost me $800, but it may be different with the newer models. Since I've had no other vehicle with seal issues, and I currently have 3 vehicles over 100K. (I like to keep them to 200K) I would consider this to be a legitimate complaint about Subarus. The only serious problem I've found.

The only other regular problem has been CV boots wiping out at about 75K. But again, how does that figure into average maintenance costs since once again it is outside of the 5 year estimate.

My older Subbie generally has one major repair or maintenance item a year. But the costs, which I have kept itemized for the last 5 years are definitely not excessive. Fewer repairs, but each individual repair is higher. It is the same average cost per year as my domestic Dodge, and that's not too bad.

lspiva

Juice. I am not planning to use a regular oil. I will stay with syntetic. However, my concern if I should adjust the oild weight 10W30 in summer and 5W30 in winter? Thanks. Leo

self_mechanic

One should be aware that there are synthetic oil based on regular patroleum base oil where molecular structure of the oil is altered to act like synthetic oil. I believe the industrial term for that is hydrocracking. I believe Castrol syntec and Penzoil synthetic oil fall into this category. Other the other hand Mobil 1, Amsoil and Redline synthetic oil are based on pure synthetic oil. If you want to know more about synthetic oil check out the topic synthetic under maintenance and repair. Currently I am using Mobil 1 with oil change at every 7500 miles on my Bean, and I don't own Mobil stock.

ateixeira

Some 2.5l are, some aren't, interference type. I'm not going to find out, put it that way. Once you pay the labor to have the belt inspected, may as well change it (and the front seals while you're at it). I'll do all that at 90k and call it good.

If a belt breaks, best case scenario you are completely stranded right on the spot.

Sorry Leo, now I get it. Sure, go with a thinner oil in winter. Try to time it to that the thicker stuff goes back in right when it's warming up.

-juice

lspiva

Thanks Juice and Self_mechanic for your responds. However, my dealer recommend me a Penzoil 100% syntetic oil saying that this is a best of the group. Well this time, I will give a try to Mobil 1. Thanks again guys. Leo

idahodoug

Good call - I applaud you exposing the 'fake' synthetics for what they are. For those of you tuning in late, recently a court decision allowed the 'fake' synthetics to use the word 'synthetic' on their labels. As in so many thinge here in America, if you can't produce a competitive synthetic product, sue them so you can at least claim it's synthetic.....yeeesh.

Mobil 1, Amsoil and Redline are true synthetics.

IdahoDoug

idahodoug

Take a 30 inch wooden dowel about an inch in diameter. With the engine running (WARNING: watch for spinning or moving parts!), touch one end to the engine block near the center and put the other end to your ear. Holding the dowel such that your hand is flush with the end helps as your hand kinda silences ambient engine sounds like an earmuff by sealing against your ear. You can clearly hear internal bearings and sounds and easily pinpoint this sound. Move the point of engine contact out each side of the engine toward the valves on the ends of this horizontally opposed engine. You'll be able to easily tell if it's valves (extreme side of engine), crank shaft or con rod big ends (center of block) or wrist pins (between these points.

This is an amazing analytical tool not to be discounted because it has been around for 100 years. I once demonstrated this to a highly educated fully certified factory mechanic and he was absolutely stunned at what he could hear. Try it.

IdahoDoug

locke2c

I am stunned said mechanic did not possess a stethoscope to do the above properly. I have one!

-Colin

nippononly

I just checked the Gates site, and all the engines are listed up to 2001, and none of them is an interference engine.

eric102

An old piece of garden hose works pretty good also. Used it once to find a rattle in my boat motor, a bad exhaust flapper valve which sounded like a rod bearing going out. I'm also surprised a mechanic wouldn't have a stethoscope, when I went to mechanics school it was one the basic tools recommended for our tool boxes. Maybe the wood dowel works better, although I've never seen my doctor use one.
Eric

misty12

Hi again,

THank you for the comments about my 03 Forester steering wheel shimmy being caused by ice and snow on the wheel. PRoblem solved. I would like to wax my wheels, as suggested. I don't know where to begin. If someone would please post the steps for this, in the form of WAXING WHEELS FOR DUMMIES, I would be grateful. What kind of wax would I buy? Is it the tire that I am waxing? Someone said wax the inside? I am not sure exactly what part that would be......the side of the tire facing the center of the car? Is it a spray on wax, or will I use a rag and rub it on? I apologize for not being more savvy on these matters!

toboggan

large screwdriver also works. Put large plastic part on (in?) your ear. Be careful of sparkplug wires..

Toboggan

pavery99

Guess I'm getting new heads under warranty at 20,000 m. After a 400 mile drive the needle was barely above normal, but that was enough. Dealer says that this was caused by failure of radiator cap leading to loss of coolant - first in his experience. Any one out there with a similar experience? Thanks.

dal12939

My saga continues. I've been back and forth to my local Subaru garage. My 2000 Forester that I bought used with about 18,000 miles in February continues to make a deep engine noise almost every morning (lasting from 10 to 20 minutes). A couple weeks after I bought it, I had a local mechanic check it over and he heard the noise, let it run for a while, but it didn't go away. He said he hoped I had a warranty because it sounded like a serious engine problem. So since then I've been bringing it to a Subaru dealer for service. First time they said it was typical engine noise for these cars. About 150 miles into the oil change, the noise worsened and lasted longer, so I brought it back. Last week in the shop they attributed the noise to a loose exhaust shield and tightened it up. The noise was back again the next morning. So...I'll be leaving it at the garage for several days so they can start it up in the a.m. and drive it 'til they hear what I'm talking about. And I asked 'em to PLEASE, drive it out of the lot and take it for a cruise, first thing in the morning! The sound only happens in the morning (once in a great while when I leave work in the afternoon). When cruising at 55-60, it sounds like playing cards pinned to bicycle wheel spokes, and when driving slower (15-25) through town (stop and go), seems louder and much more noticeable, especially when I start to accelerate. Then when I speed up to about 30-35, the noise has simply disappeared, like a light switch turned off. The guy who sold it to me said 80 percent of them (new and old) do it, and noise will last as long as it takes for the engine to warm up (c'mon folks, 20 minutes?!). The people at the Subaru garage who now service it (not where I bought it) seem genuinely perplexed and frustrated that they're not hearing what I'm hearing. So am I. Update: This morning after I started her up, she was making her usual racket, and after a few minutes I punched the accelerator, and she quieted down. Could something in fact be loose or vibrating in there? Any ideas welcome!

brightness

If that is not a PhaseI motor, what is it called, and how long should I expect the front seal to last? thanks.

annegary

My subaru H6 outback 2002 with only 6000 on it quit running while driving the other day. Had to pull over ( on the glide no power) turn the key off and then it restarted. Any suggestions on what happened. Am trying to get an appointment at my dealer but they are not the best at this.

Also it doesn't start right away sometimes. Have to turn the key twice?

ateixeira

The ECU probably freaked out. Pardon the technical jargon. ;-)

I'd have the dealer check to see if it registered any codes. It probably self-diagnosed the problems and reset itself when you restarted it.

-juice

ateixeira

You can call it the EJ25, because all of those fall under that family name. Front seals should last at least 80-90k miles, so just change them when you do your timing belt.

Overheating is pretty rare. Is yours the H4 or H6? The H6's coolant reservoir may be too small in the opinion of some here.

Misty: any painted wheel can be waxed. We're talking about the painted metal surface, inside and out. Actually, the inside is more important because that's where ice tends to stick.

It's easiest when the wheels are off the car, I do it when I rotate my tires. You can use the spray stuff, but it doesn't last as long as liquid or paste wax. But anything helps, so if that's what it takes for you to do it, then by all means do it.

I was funny to see the slush just slip right off my wheels. :-)

-juice

dude

Took my whitey to the service this morning, with 20% off coupon and tax should be around $400.

nygreg

Well, just ordered a K&N filter and kit for my OB. This is the start of my 30K service (plugs, tranny fluid, diff fluid, coolant, and brake fluid to come in the next month or two). I hope the filter is as good as I hear.

Greg

ateixeira

$400 is good. One dealer I saw had it at just over $600.

-juice

dude

Another local dealer, gave me a quote of $578 which was 8 miles away from my work. This one, is like 2 blocks away.

celica115

When you change the front seals, you change every seal or only the top one? I know there are different seals in the engin. Would that be expensive if you change them all? Thanks

Luk

ken_from_nj

on sunday - it was relatively mild - mid 40's i'd guess - so was good day for it. pretty easy job - just remove 6 plastic pins on the access panel, swing to side - drain, replug, swap filter & replace panel. filled her up w/mobil 1 synthetic (my first synthetic experience - figured this is our first "new" car & will be keeping quite some time so will stick w/mobil 1 although still haven't decided on the frequency of changes. this first change is with the odometer showing 3500 miles or so. car running great - now if only it will get warm enough again to wash off all that roadsalt.