Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

john284

Over the long weekend trip, I saw a rather new Outback cruising on the highway, in the left lane, and on uphills, it billowed smoke like it is chimney....hard to justify the sighting because that car looks new to me!!! Maybe you could let someone followed you in their car, and see if yours is billowing upon picking up...

-Water

williamskm

Would this apply to an engine that was just replaced in July?

When I drove home this afternoon the rocking was gone. Would the ECU be reset when the engine was changed? WOuld it take this long (1800 miles) for the ECu to re learn what ever it learns? I also put a container of STP fuel injector cleaner in it yesterday, maybe that fixed the problem?

fibber2

Unfortunately, new (or rebuilt) does not always mean 'good'. You would think it should, but manmade things sometimes are not...

The ECU should adjust pretty quickly to any major change. The battery would have been disconnected during a major swap, so it would be learning from scratch. Within a tank or two, it should be pretty caught up.

What would fuel system cleaner do? It could improve the spray pattern of a clogged injector, or clean deposits on the valve stem (which interfere with the injector spray). It could certainly improve idle and driveability, but the link to the oil consumption would be a stretch.

Steve

mrk610

I looked at mine and the top is just a brass fitting . It looks like the valve is at the bottom of the hose . I pulled the top part of the hose off and it was nice and clean with just a trace of oil on it . Seems like a weird design to me .
Is it me or is the outback very suseptable to different types of roads . Some times i have a very slight shimmy in my steering wheel depending on the type of black top I'm driving on. Other times the wheel is smooth no shimmy . has anybody experienced this with there cars .

Thanks Mike k

fibber2

Jon,

You are correct. I pulled the hose off of each end and examined the fittings. The intake manifold side is simply a nipple. The actual PCV is screwed into the block (crankcase) and was rather oily.

In retrospect, this seems to be the arrangement I remember from my older vehicles. Previous Ford engines had the PCV valve inserted into a rubber grommet (in the oil filler cap on the passenger side valve cover, IIRC???), with the suction hose connected to a spacer below the back of the carb.

So I gather that some Subi engines reversed this arrangement?

Steve

dcm61

Yup Steve, the Ford engines had the PCV in the oil filter cap.

P.S. Thanks for confirming the location on the EJ25 II.

DaveM

jlemole

Thanks DaveM, Steve and MikeK. Gotta bring back the older-style valve back to the dealer and tell them to check their parts numbering specs.

Jon

williamskm

The rough idling seems to be gone now. This is day 2 with no problems <fingers crossed>.

This morning I checked the oil before I left for work. The car is parked in the same spot I always park in, I believe it is level. Now the oil was way above the notch on the dipstick.<sigh> Guess I will just have to watch and see what happens
Kim

andmoon

Hi, first time here but have been at other wrx forums.
I am a big fan of flat engines and all the aircooled vw, porsche and bmw motorcycles I have had used oil and shook a little during idle. I do not know if it is the layout of the cylinders that cause the oil consumption but they all did.
All the engines used less oil as the mileage went up. My R1100 (flat 2) didn't slow oil consumption until it reached 12,000 miles. All the motors never stopped oil consumption.
MY 03 wrx has 7.5K on it and I have added a total of 1qt between oil changes so far.
Now my problem...randomly crooked steering wheel. U turns leave the steering pointed towards the direction of last turn. Less sharp turns leave it crooked to a lesser degree. Max left crooked leaves top of left steering wheel spoke just below turn signal stalk, max right leaves right spoke just below wiper stalk.
Anyone else have this?
Don

subaru_team

and check out some other vehicles to see what they look like. Has a dealer looked at it?

Patti

P. S. - nice of you to join us at Edmunds! Welcome!

corkfish

Don't forget that some rocking with the boxer engine is normal for the design. They all exhibit some amount to some degree.

hypov

corkfish Sep 4, 2003 10:48am

Ya, but not when it feels like a washing machine with off-balance load in spin cycle ;-)
The feeling kinda takes me back to my bone-shaker bus riding days in Singapore.

-Dave

joanblake

I felt I should clarify that point on my dispute with the dealership. The parts involved only add up to $68.85. The last I heard from my local Subaru dealership, the general mgr.would not move on refunding any of the service bill, but offered to replace the tire. In doing so, he told me that ALL FOUR tires would have to be replaced since it's an all-wheel drive car. I never heard this before. I always thought that you needed to replace both tires on the front or the back when you need to replace one on either end. Is this right, or is he just trying to make me feel like he's really giving me something? My tires are practically new. I don't need all four replaced in my mind.

He told me the owner of the dealership would be contacting me, but to date, I have not heard from him.

Thanks to all for your feedback. I'd like to hear from more of you.

hypov

Joan-
New pair in front or back is doable if the newer tyres would be within 1/4" circumference amongst each other, otherwise you'll have to remember which is which down the road. Replacing all 4 is the optimum and the dealer is going the optimum route.

-Dave

subaru_team

the best way to check is to use a piece of string. Measure it around all of the tires. If it's off by more than 1/4 inch (thanks Dave) all 4 should be replaced. The information is in the Owner's Manual. It's not just a Subaru thing - it's for all AWD/4WD vehicles.

Patti

andmoon

Patti, Yes the dealer replaced the steering rack bushings, then the whole rack but the problem isn't gone. Right after the new bushings the problem was less noticeable than before but it only took a few hundred miles for it to return. The dealer contacted Subaru and I was told that "a little" movement was normal. The dealer was more than helpful and has agreed to install aftermarket bushings if I provided the bushings. When I questioned how much "a little" was, they set up a meeting with a regional rep (9-16). I feel the dealer has done as much as can be expected of them. I am wondering how widespread this problem is.
I have read all the previous posts and I think it is great that Subaru has someone like you doing this thankless go-between job.
Don

lark6

I posted this in Forester forum yesterday but yet to get a response.

One of the lights behind my HVAC controls - specifically, on the right-hand side behind the knob that controls where airflow is directed - has burnt out. The dealership tells me that replacement is not covered under my Subaru Gold extended warranty (!). Parts + labor to repair = $104. A little surprising to happen to a 3 1/2 -year old car but not out of the realm of possibility.

Has anyone DIYed this before?

Thanks,
Ed

ateixeira

I have installed a stereo, and basically you have to get in to the same area.

It would take me maybe an hour to do it, is my guess. I installed the stereo in about 2 hours, but with that experience I'm sure I could do it in far less time now.

I guess bulbs are a "wear and tear" item, fair enough I guess. They could do that out of good will, though, especially for a Gold customer.

If you're considering upgrading the head unit, do them both now.

-juice

bluesubie

I had those same bulbs replaced in my OBS as well as the OB. The OB was about 45 minutes worth of labor, IIRC.
For the OBS, they quoted me 45 min. of labor too. It ended up taking them nearly an hour and a half, but they still only charged me 45 min. for labor.

-Dennis

bluesubie

The numbers are pretty good. I had this done by Blackstone labs. Also posted at bobistheoilguy.com.

"Equipment make: Subaru
Equipment model: 2.5L
Oil use interval: 3,875
Oil type & Grade: Castrol GTX 10W30
Make-up oil added: 0
Miles on unit: 70,848
Air filter: K&N
Oil filter: OEM (Purolator)

Mine [universal averages]
Aluminum 3 [3]
Chromium 0 [1]
Iron 4 [8]
Copper [2] [4]
Lead 4 [3]
Tin 0 [1]
Molybdenum 41 [45]
Nickel 0 [0]
Maganese 1 [1]
Silver 0 [0]
Titanium 0 [0]
Potassium 0 [0]
Boron 15 [41]
Silicon 11 [9]
Sodium 4 [10]
Calcium 2562 [2108]
Magnesium 5 [226]
Phosphorous 794 [738]
Zinc 900 [878]
Barium 0 [0]

Properties
SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 60.3 (Should be 59-65)
Flashpoint: 365F (>360)
Fuel %: .5 (<2.0)
Antifreeze: 0 (0)
Water: 0 (<.1)
Insolubules: .4 (<.6)

Dennis: Everything looks very good in the initial sample from this engine. All wear read well below average, which is a good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation. The universal averages show normal wear after about 3,500 miles on the oil. Insolubules (oil oxidation due to heat, use and blowby) were low at 0.4%, showing good oil filtration. No fuel dilution or anti-freeze was found. Silicon was not excessive at 11 ppm, so we think your air filtration is still getting the job done. At 70,848 total miles, this engine appears to be doing well."

-Dennis

bluesubie

And since I can't link it here, this is a comment from one of the moderators there:

"Very nice! It seems that no matter what oil Subaru owner's choose, you can't go wrong, as these engines are engineered so well that wear is almost a non issue. No wonder I see so many high mileage Subes up here (a friend had one go to 400,000km before someone smashed into him, and a lady I work with is approaching 300,000km on hers)"

ateixeira

Cool. It's got enough Calcium in its diet, too. ;-)

-juice

hypov

but not enough magnesium to help absorb them

-Dave

ateixeira

If your engine rocks that badly, you probably have a bad motor mount. That happened to my old roommate's Dodge Shadow turbo. Shook like that washing machine you mentioned, Dave.

If the tires are like new, you could probably even just get one new one. But do measure.

-juice

hypov

juice-
thanks I'll keep watch on the OBS.
As for the OB a new engine mount can't help now..., well, you know the story ;-)

-Dave

ateixeira

I have one of the parts left over from your "yard sale". RIP Al Gator.

-juice

locke2c

uh, the shortblock will live a long time sure but the headgaskets won't.

-Colin

p0926

Joan- Wow, I bet that was scary! Now as to whether there&#146;s anything to pursue… first off, although the service tech clearly didn&#146;t demonstrate due diligence, no actual harm was done, so playing the "what if" game is pointless. Just be thankful that you're okay. I certainly wouldn't consider taking legal action. However, it&#146;s entirely possible that some ambulance-chasing lawyer will disagree but personally, I don&#146;t believe in going that route.

Now as to just compensation: the dealership fixed their mistake, offered a $100 credit and is offering to replace all four tires (the later two admittedly only after you raised a stink). I think that's pretty fair. And since they did perform the specified work, asking for your money back actually seems a little unfair to the dealer. Sure it would be nice if he refunded your money as a show of goodwill but I wouldn't demand it. Besides, $100 plus four new tires (@ almost $100 each) is the equivalent of approx $500. I think I'd take the offer and just thank the powers above for watching out for you that day.

-Frank P.

idahodoug

Thanks for the heads up. That was my Subaru, and I was actually cooking a turkey under the hood. Other than this culinary incident, there are absolutely no other Subarus in the world that smoke. Keep up the good work, however.

IdahoDoug

williamskm

How do I know if I have a bad motor mount and how do you explain the fact that the rocking motion has significantly decreased in the past 3 days?
Kim

idahodoug

I love working on this Sube. At 39k, my '97 belts were looking a little cracked and I'm heading to Montana to mountain bike Friday. So, picked up the belts a couple days ago. Today, it took me all of 20 minutes on a job that really showcased how to design a car to be easily worked on. 3 bolts removes the covers, then loosen 2 lock bolts and crank the tensioners loose - old belts are on the floor.

What a piece of cake that was - in fact I was done and reluctant to close the hood since I'd planned on an hour or so. So, I sucked the power steering fluid out of the reservoir and put fresh A/T fluid in. Only changes about 50% of the fluid, but refreshes the additive package. That took another 5 minutes, so I cleaned up the mountain bike with the extra time.

What a joy to work on considering what a nightmare most modern cars are.

IdahoDoug

lfdal

Unless you're very mechanically inclined, its a job best left to the dealer.

Most of the ways I've seen it done aren't any more complicated than having the hood open with one person watching the engine (from the side, of course) while another person puts the car in gear with their foot on the brake, emergency brake engaged, etc. Then simply watch the engine to see if it twists axially one way or the other when the gas is lightly applied in forward then reverse. If you're not careful that method can get you injured/maimed/dead - you get the idea.

Other ways to do it involve everything from a simple physical inspection to actually trying to apply pressure to the engine with a jack to see if it will separate the mount.

The dealer shouldn't charge more than 0.5 hr labor to diagnose mounts - he'll probably use the first method I mentioned as its the quickest.

But that way they're taking the risk, not you.

HTH
Larry

p0926

Kim- I could be wrong but I think Juice was directing that comment to Dave. A bad mount is isn't likely in your case since as you pointed out, your rocking has significantly decreased.

-Frank P.

ray_c

Hi,

     Anyone try this http://www.geocities.com/hobiegary/hesitation.htm for their Subaru hesitation problem

axp696

Ugh. This is no longer an issue as Subaru corrected their grounding a number of years ago. What he's offering is an overpriced grounding kit. The same thing can be done by scraping off the paint under the grounding points and reapplying them, or adding additional grounds with $5-worth of wiring from Home Depot.

stoner420

That's nothing, some people sell grounding kits for around $100!

c_hunter

Anybody know where the knock sensor is located on 2002-2003 2.5 H4 engines?

thanks,
Craig

fibber2

Look from the drivers side. It is a round black body held down to the top of the block with a bolt in the center. Kind of nestled under the intake manifold almost directly beneath the throttle linkage bell crank. It is maybe two inches or so from the rear edge of the block. I could send you a photo if I had an e-mail address...

Steve

bluesubie

Would oil analyis be a good way to early detect leaky headgaskets? Or is oil in the coolant usually the first sign?

-Dennis

fibber2

Didn't Ken S. have a problem with the bushings and a shifting rack? IIRC, he posted a link to someone who had firmer aftermarket bushings????

Steve

fibber2

I was told by two shops that analysis of the failing gasket sometimes shows leakage between the cylinder and the cooling passage, or the cooling passage and external. Mine was cooling to external. So it might not show up as oil/water mixing until the other problems are already evident.

Steve

ateixeira

Doug: that's good to hear. Some things are tougher, like spark plug access.

-juice

ateixeira

Look up SPG under NASIOC, the cost is negligable. If you even need it, that is.

-juice

ray_c

Brian

   Are sure this is no longer an issue. I have a 2001 Outback with 67k miles on it. And I'm starting to notice the problem. When did Subaru corrected their grounding?

Thanks,

Ray

georgeinmd

the "Hesitation Fix" you refer to in #1677 isn't a grounding procedure in the sense that axp696 means. The "fix" supposedly shunts some of the knock sensor signal to ground, purportedly causing the ecu to not retard ignition timing (causing hesitation) as soon as it otherwise would. It sounds pretty klugy to me... but I installed it anyway, and it actually seems to work, though I pay close attention to the engine to be sure its not detonating (knocking). Not sure I'm comfortable with that aspect yet. I would feel far better if the problem were positively identified and fixed by Subaru, but I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that's been done. There's a discussion of the "fix" at http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/index1.html -> All Modifications -> knock sensor mod that may answer some questions/save some money. Be interested to hear any other experiences.

George

c_hunter

Thanks for the knock sensor info -- that will help. I will have a look (wife's Forester) and take you up on the photo offer if I can't find it!

Anybody know how expensive they are to replace?

Craig

nygreg

My dealer charged me a "discounted" price of $80 for the part when they replaced it recently. The whole bill for them to replace it was ~$150. Given how easy they are to replace, this is very expensive (SOA helped me here). You might want to try aftermarket (Bosch?) and definitely install it yourself.

Greg

ateixeira

$80 is cheap, Mazda charged $220 for the one on our 626. Bosch ones run about $70 but they did not have one for that engine.

-juice

c_hunter

A couple of weeks ago, my wife mentioned that the Forester had some hesitation off the line, and was knocking a bit under acceleration. I was able to reproduce it this weekend. Both are symptoms of a faulty (or improperly installed) knock sensor, so I was going to take a look to make sure it's connected and not loose. If it's expensive, I'll let the dealer look at it since it should be covered under warranty.

Craig

kens

Yes, I did mention the steering rack shift a while ago. It appears to happen to some, if not all Subies when a sharp U-turn is made. I asked my dealer about it and was also told that some shift is normal. Since the shift self-corrects itself after a few turns, I haven't bothered to pursue it any further.

So far, there doesn't seem to be fix either. Some folks have claimed using stiffer bushings from Whiteline fixed the problem.

Ken