Thinking of getting a remote starter for my 2001 Forester S+ ... Michigan Winter ... need I say more? I'm just wondering if anyone has had one installed, and, if so, were there any problems? Also, I'm wondering if having a remote starter installed might raise any possible warranty issues. Thanks.
Dan: I use a regular floor-standing pump designed for bikes. It can take a while, but it works.
My hydraulic jack came with one, and I should try it some time. If it works, it wouldn't be a bad idea to follow Eric's tip.
Check that spare, guys. My Forester was only a bit low, but the spare in my Miata is a donut and was at just 10 PSI! It's supposed to be at 65 psi! Yikes!
Thanks to all who answered. I think I'll go with one of those Wal/K-mart specials and see how far it'll take me.
I'd been using a foot pump I got in '85 (for something like $5) which finally gave out (to me that's amazing). I'm now using my standing bike pump as well but is wearing me out adjusting the pressure on all four tires. (I'm not as young as I used to be... :-)
I second the motion to check the spare. Finally had to use the donut last year and the pressure was at something like 15 psi which could barely hold itself up, let alone an Outback!
CHERRY HILL, N.J. (AP) - Subaru of America Inc. announced Friday the voluntary recall of certain 2001 Subaru Legacy vehicles.
The recall involves the inspection of fuel hoses, rear center seat belts and right front wheel bearing housings on some models, including Legacy L, GT and Outback.
The company said layers on the fuel hose may separate, causing it to leak. The hose recall affects 1,456 vehicles.
Subaru will check 1,977 cars to check for a casting flaw in the right front bearing housing that could lead to loss of vehicle control.
The company will also inspect 368 Legacy sedan vehicles with beige interiors to replace the rear-center seat belt, which may not extend to the full length.
The problems were found during quality-assurance testing, the company said. There have been no accidents or injuries, Subaru said.
Registered owners of vehicles potentially affected by the recall campaigns will be notified by mail. All repairs will be made at dealerships at no charge to the owners. -- Also see Press Releases on SoA.
BRAVO Subaru! Sure, in my utopia cars would be perfect. Given the recent problems with Mitsubishi and Ford, it's refreshing to see a company own up to problems and fix them without being forced by a regulatory authority.
I don't know much about these, but I do know that we are not offering them as accessories yet because we were not pleased with the one's we tested. One note: Make sure your car is fully engaged in Park and the emergency brake is on. Wouldn't want your Sube to leave home without you!!
FYI - most of the "problem" vehicles were caught prior to release to retail customers. They just want to check vehicles that were close to the range of production where we found the issues in QC checks. An alert was sent to dealers to halt sales to check the concerns prior to release, so we don't think there are many out there, but better safe than sorry. If you are concerned, call us to check the VIN range to see if your 2001 is involved. You do not have to wait to get a recall letter prior to getting it checked out. Dealers were given the inspection procedures in advance, so they should be able to take care of you. If your dealer tells you they cannot do that, please refer them to us at - well, you know the number.
Personally, recalls like this do not really upset me much (except for the hassle for the customer's). I'm kind of proud of the way we jump on things if we even suspect a concern instead of burying our heads in the sand.
There are not too many vehicles in the inspection range, so it should be no major issue.
Don't forget to call if you are concerned about this in ANY way.
Hi, As I rapidly approach 30k on my 2k OB, I'd like some recommendations on what really should be done. (I do nothing myself.) Again, my brakes squeak, but the dealer says they're ok. I'm being told elsewhere that Subies do this at this mileage, especially if you don't over use them.
Back to service, the manual says plugs and wires, one dealer recommends all fluids, alignment, tire rotation (I do that every 7500 miles) and plugs and wires for the discount price of 450 bucks.
I don't really want to pay that, but what should be done? How much of this really is necessary when you hit this point in one year?
In your warranty and maintenance booklet, it outlines the "minimum" recommended services. This can vary based on where you live (the type of driving) and the type of driving you do. 7,500 mile tire rotations are good ideas. An overall inspection of the other things the dealer is recommending is fine before deciding if they need to be done.
Brakes today are a bit noisy. It is a tough balance between brake pads with higher metallic content (so they last longer) or softer pads. They are quieter, but the have a very short life span. If you notice that they make noise after not being used for a bit, some gentle, but firm braking on a clear road will clear off some surface rust that can cause the noise. It's a good idea to get them checked however. The warranty on the pads is 12 months so, it's good to get them checked prior to the warranty expiring.
If your dealer is recommending additional services, ask them why before you choose from their menu. Then, make the decision that best suits you and your type of use.
My 2001 Legacy GT have a burned smell, especialy after getting off the highway. The smell is not distinct, it is more like a cross between oil and/or break/clutch and/or electric.
If you have under about 2000 miles, it is probably just the exhaust system burning off the initial coating of oil. I know on my new cars I smell a slight burning for the first 2000 miles or so.
Sorry for this dash of reality ... but I wish I could say Subaru jumped on fixing problems with my 2000 Outback before they occurred, but that isn't the case.
I would have expected a good look over after a fuel injector failed and left me stranded 500 km away from home.
To top it all off, 4 months later, a second fuel injector failed! (at least this time it was only 30 km from home).
Needless to say I am still wary that the other 2 fuel injectors are going to fail. Not exactly confidence inspiring.
Can anyone tell me if there is a receptical for a trailer hitch wiring harness somewhere in the back of my 2001 Outback Limited? I purchased a Hidden Hitch and recommended wiring harness, and expected it would just plug in to a spare receptical somewhere in the back.
According to the harness maker, I should find an extra plug behind the access port on the driver's side at the rear of the cargo area. I see a plug and socket in use there, but no "extra" socket, and I think I fished around behind the access port pretty well. A call to the installation number provided with the harness resulted in puzzlement and a suggestion to look in the spare tire well (no joy there). Do I need an additional part that lets the harness tie in to the junction I found? I was led to believe there would be a plug just waiting for the harness I bought. Hmmm.
P.S. The directions that came with the hitch itself were great, and we installed the hitch, which is indeed very "hidden" in short order. My only suggestion to others is to be sure you tighten the hitch to spec using a torque wrench. If you "guess", you'll probably not tighten the bolts enough.
Hi Ash, I agree your fuel injector problems don't inspire confidence. Still, I'm glad you're hanging in there with your OB and still participating here; we want to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm writing up an electrical problem; I'll post it today.
I have a hidden hitch on my trooper, installed in 1/2hr. Great products! I think Juice had to splice his wiring into his harness, i'm not sure of other subies or not.
Hey WDB, Greg (gedwards), bit, and other 5MT MY00 Legacy/Outback folks, here are symptoms of a problem I've got:
Check Engine begins flashing 30 seconds after starting. Rough idle (enough to vibrate gear shift, steering wheel, and car body). No power up a small incline; no power on level road in all gears and RPMs. Acceleration sluggish; to reach 55mph, must shift at 4-5,000 RPM. Upon opening hood, detected a burning odor, the acrid smell of burned electrical insulation.
This occurred 6 Dec. Not knowing what was going on and being paranoid, I called Subaru Roadside Assistance and had it towed at no charge from my house to the dealer (what a great service!). The mechanic repaired an open connection between the ECM and an ignition coil (no details); problem solved.
This morning the problem reoccurred; this time I drove to the dealer (after confirming driving with these symptoms wouldn't damage the engine).
Per a mechanic, diagnostics indicate an open connection between the wires from the ECM (replaced under recall) to the ignition coils (one per spark plug, unlike the good ol' days) on cylinders 3 and 4. It's possible that the ECM replacement triggered this problem. It's just a guess but it's the last thing that changed. (BTW "What changed?" is my first question when diagnosing Windoze or Unix problems.)
Tischer Subaru, Silver Spring, MD, is performing the work.
Original post: <15.992</A>> Service Program WXV-79
My free loaner is a hot-rod Ford Escort with 4 not on the floor, no it's a 4 door automagic. What have I done wrong to be sentenced to this vehicle? Kate, keeper of the Ford scriptures please save me!
Mike, the coil pack sits on top of the intake manifold and there are two coils in it, one for each half of the engine. That's why you have a problem with #3 and #4 both...
A flashing CE light means that a misfire is occuring. In my opinion the vehicle should not be driven in this condition, particularly if it is persistent.
Instead of a plug wire or coil problem, you could get the flashing CE if timing were out of whack... and I assure you worse things could happen than a fried coil.
Primo Colin! Next time I'll have it towed (I appreciate the advice). Yes, it's persistent (that's why my wife let me drive it this morning). Also, thanks for correcting me on the coil packs. No word from the dealer.
Since the vehicle is under warranty then following the dealer's advice can't hardly hurt you. However if it were out of warranty and something bad happened (say the timing thing, leading to bent or destroyed valves) then who pays the very large bill that would arise?
Tow the car! It's covered and it guarantees no damage.
I'd have them assign someone to do nogthing but test and retest all the connections to the ECM, *carefully* - after all, this is the second time for the same problem, a problem that occurred after an ECM change. If they don't find anything I'd pound on them until they replaced the ECM again. You might have gotten a dud.
Regards, -wdb (Whose first question is also, "what changed?")
Boy, so much is lost in the translation between the dealer's mechanic and the service rep. I understand why it's done (efficiency plus a mechanic might have better mechanical than people skills; nothing wrong w/that) but for someone (let's call him "the Customer") trying to understand what happened and why, it's frustrating. This is why I like small, independent shops. At my independent shop, the CSR to whom I speak is the owner, a.k.a. senior mechanic, and even if he didn't work on the car, he understands the work performed and can explain it to the laity (me).
The mechanic replaced the ignition coil. When I asked, "aren't there two?", the CSR said she specifically asked the mechanic, who said there was only one. I'm sure something was lost during the translation from mechanical to lay speak, but it's still annoying that I've got to come here to get accurate info (not that I don't like you guys). Giving the mechanic the benefit of doubt, maybe he meant the ignition coil on cylinders 3 and 4, an accurate statement.
So Colin, I know WDB prefers payment in beer, how may I repay you?
Thanks Colin and WDB; I hope my ignition coil problem doesn't begin to compete with Ash's fuel injector saga. BTW Ash, any subsequent problems after replacing the two (!) fuel injectors?
Before i begin my rant, let me say how much I like my car. I bought a 98 forester this summer with 90k kms on it for a pretty good price. Since I have owned it, I have replaced the clutch and a wheel bearing and now need to replace the sway bar link and a crank case seal. This is getting ridiculous. What really gets my goat is that I did some research and found out all the things I fixed or need to fix, except the clutch have already been replaced once already. I also found out from another forester forum that clutch wear on 98's is not an unheard of thing. Up to this point I have chalked up the repairs to buyer beware and paid for them graciously. My patience with subaru however is wearing thin. The dealers I have dealt with have been very helpful but not very good at dealing with my 'beefs'. When I bought my forester, I was all excited about the car and was considering buying my wife one also. Given my past 9 months or so, I ve changed my mind. If anyone has any advice on what I should or could do, I would appreciate it greatly.
Colin, I realize there are variations in terminology, but is the more common US expression "ignition coil" or "ignition coil pack"? (I prefer to bolster my maundering with onomastics ;-p )
Hey Mike, sorry to hear about your ECM/ignition coil problems.
Since my 2nd injection failure, I've only had the rotors resurfaced at 19,000 miles because I was noticing a vibration.
Interesting symptoms you noted .. mine were very similar, except once past 4000 rpm, the injectors would start working again, and the CE light would stop flashing. I agree with the rest of the group though - and would stop driving it immediately (as I did with my OB).
As for the injectors, I haven't driven the OB anywhere for more than 2 hours continously in over 4 months. The injectors failed on trips over 5 hours. Ironically, they were consecutive trips (ie. back to back) - hence doing little for my confidence. Still I have to drive it home on Christmas day. Hmm .. maybe I'll make that the 26th :0|
Mike, I like beer too but I'm too far away. You all can raise a glass to me, and that's plenty enough since I don't feel as if I did much!
The reason the device on top of the intake manifold with plug wires connected to it is called a coil pack is simply because there are multiple coils inside of it. Like a six pack of beer. ;-)
If there were just one coil, say like on most older vehicles, then it would just be the coil. If it had a distributor the coil is before that and then the distributor is what all the plug wires connect to. It doesn't have a distributor because it's controlled by the ECU.
If it had coil-on-plug like an SVX, then it wouldn't have a coil pack because each of the six coils would be located individually.
Is anyone besides me less than thrilled with the traction of their Subaru? I've had my 01 Outback now for 2 weeks. Frankly, I'm surprised at how poor the traction in snow is. It has a lot of understeer and while driving at slow speeds on residential streets it's no problem to spin it 180 if I want. I don't recall a previous 4 wheel drive (Explorer) or front wheel drive (Saab) being such a handful on snow. And I'm talking only an inch or two.
I'm sure this is more a problem of tires than of the vehicle. It came with Firestones (not sure which model) which I run at about 30 psi. I know inflation makes some difference, but I don't consider it the problem. Comments...?
I am in Canada, is there someone specific I should call here. I also found out that the dealer knew about the wheel bearing under warranty and did not fix it. I also learned that they had previously fixed 2 sway bar links and the crank seal under warranty and they have failed again. If you can, let me know who to get in touch with please.
I posted (just a few days ago) similar remarks about poor traction in the snow. I have yet to get stuck in snow (we got about 30 cm overnight), but I agree, the Outback w/Firestones on light snow is like melting ice cream sliding around in a bowl.
However, I am also convinced the reason is because the Wilderness tires are just not agressive enough to handle the weather. I have been contemplating an upgrade to either real snow tires or better all seasons.
Has anyone used Michelin MX4 Rainforce all seasons? how do they handle in the snow?
Sorry - I assumed that you were in the U. S. But, Ash has the correct information. I have worked with Reed in the past and he is a good guy. I know he'll try to help you!
30k maintenance: I'm surprised the air filter and an oil change aren't listed, and that the spark plug wires are. The reverse seems more likely.
Jim: yep, tires. Consider snow tires on steel rims. I found the Desert Duelers on the Forester adequate, and while I could spin the wheels if I tried, I also never got close to getting stuck. I now have less aggressive tread, but we get so little snow anyway.
Jay: my Forester had a harness plug in the wheel well. It was towards the back on the passenger side. No splicing required.
I think your Outback also has a harness hidden somewhere, since it's rated for towing (the other Legacy models do not, I think).
Jason: the wheel bearing issue I've seen before. Make sure they used the correct torque settings - bring this up to the mechanic that replaced yours, or it will happen again.
Sway bar links? Wow, how hard was that thing driven? The stock rear sway bar is a very wimpy 13mm, and flexes like Gumby.
You sure the previous owners didn't install some fat sway bars? This happens to some Miata owners that get fat bars and drive very hard, but usually those people are racing.
Clutch is hard to say. Yours was used to who knows how it was treated. Maybe the owner taught people how to drive stick shift!
<131</A>>: 131except once past 4000 rpm, the injectors would start working again, and the CE light would stop flashing.Clubs
Ash, Thanks. How did you know the injectors started working again? Is it as simple as, "the injectors started working again because once past 4000 rpm, I again had power." Or is there more to this, as in "the CE light changed from flashing to solid, indicating the injectors started working again". Sorry if I'm being dense. (and, hehe, no I don't want to compete)
Colin, I thought "pack" might mean "multiple" (a la beer LOL); thanks. Ah, the SVX had coil-on-plug, yes, I remember reading that. That's what I get for assuming; my bad. And maybe you didn't fix the problem but you sure helped me understand it. That's what I like about you and the folks on this board!
Patti, I'm not unhappy; my problem was fixed! (Though if you just want feedback on a dealer, I'll be happy to do that.)
Gosh I apologize to everyone if I came across as whining or ranting (it's the written word so it's par for the course); upon re-reading it I guess it's not my most neutral piece and for that I apologize. I'm just coming clean here. Subarus aren't perfect, no car is. I'm just reporting my experiences; maybe it'll help someone in a similar situation. It'll take a lot more than two trips to repair one problem to shake my enthusiasm for Subaru.
However, I do think some dealers could improve their feedback to the customer. Most of my dealer experiences have been "black hole" experiences.
car + problem + dealer + money = car - problem
To balance the equation, I'd like:
car + problem + dealer + money = car - problem + explanation
Jason - Told you this was a good place to get some help. ;-). Keep us posted.
Mike - On "lost in the translation". I had that problem a lot at my previous dealer. I have since found another dealer where the techs are only a few steps away from the advisors. AND the techs actually talk to the customers.
ash - What are the tires on the 99 OB? Michelin MV4's (MX4's?)? My wife says they're fine in the snow. Although she's only driven in a few inches and doesn't drive as hard as I do. She'll probably test them more since she's commuting to Morris County in NW NJ this winter. Might be time for some Arctic Alpins.
juice - When my former service manager told me I needed a new clutch, I told him I was so easy on it. He said maybe you're too easy on it and they need to be driven hard. Still had a problem after it was replaced. SoA took care of that though.
I drive all my cars pretty hard. The tires do make a difference, but in most snow, short of full snow tires, you are gonna slide around. If I drive gently, i won't spin out my subie nor my trooper. If you try, you can spin out just about any vehicle w/o traction control.
are okay now. However, if you get some time, give us a call just so we can document your experience. That way, we can try to make sure your future experiences are better.
If you get time, otherwise, I'll just be glad things are okay now.
when the injectors failed I noticed rough idling and shaking only at low rpms, and the CE light would start flashing indicating a misfire. once up at higher revs the light would stop flashing, and the shaking would also completely disappear. no power loss at higher revs, just at the lower ones.
in fact, I only noticed a problem at the end of trips when I got of highways and started going into lower rpms.
kind of weird isn't it?
the '99- OB had OE Michelin (MV4?) tires on it - I've heard nothing but good things about them. The MX4s are similar in nature but not made for "all-roads" driving, as they are a on-street passenger radial. We bought a set of MX4s in November for a Ford Contour so maybe I should go play with that car for a while.
Yet, nothing really beats having two sets of tires.
Also note that snow tires and ice tires serve different purposes. The Yokohoma Guardex's I have on my MX-6 are phenomenal for sticking to ice, but not great in slush at all.
Anyway, I really wish Subaru stuck with the Michelins...
The two times the coil problem occured, it was on a chilly (for DC) morning (30-35F IIRC); the nights before had been mid 20F.
So would the CE light go from flashing to steady (if that is possible) or would it go from flashing to completely off? On my coil pack prob, it was initially steady, then flashed (and remained flashing) after 30 sec.
I know this is kinda different, but I had major problems with my old '74 Olds @ high RPMs it would backfire through the carbs. Eventually i blew the secondaries on the Holley carb. We figured out when my uncle had done me a favor and changed the cap and rotor, he had put the wrong one in and that was the culprit. So I guess that is similar to a bad coil pack.
It's been a while, so I'm not sure if I completely recall. However, I can say for sure the light never went out. I'm pretty sure the flashing would stop eventually at higher rpms but the light would stay on. I think once I hit lower RPMs again, the light started flashing again (indicating a misfire). I didn't drive it much once the problem started.
Juice: they were Michelin XW something - you're right Good point about the aquatreads, I think I'll look at those.
Thanks, Subie team and Juice...yes, I left out oil change (which I do regularly) and air filter, I guess those make sense, but my point is, with 30k in one year, how much else is really necessary? I would strongly recommend the use of Aquatreads in the snow, have had them, hated them, had an accident with them, and any tire guy I've spoken to recommends against them. Consumer Reports has some updated tire info, Michelin and Yokahama seem to make the best "A traction" rated all-seasons, but I do agree you can't beat 4 snow tires on any car in the snow. Vince14
The bad thing about coil packs is that you have to replace the whole unit, even if just one pack goes bad. I would definitely recommend against driving a car with an electrical problem like this -- when you don't get a spark in a cylinder, the exhaust gets really rich (as you can imagine), and it can really foul up a catalytic converter, among other things.
A friend of mine blew a coil pac on her Olds Calais with the Quad-4 engine (buzzes like a lawn mower). Because of the rich exhaust, the catalytic converter got clogged and glowed bright red from the heat (scary sight to look under a car and see a large red lightbulb where the cat used to be). Once we fixed the problem, everything seemed OK, and the car ran fine. I do imagine that a lot of the catalyst honeycomb core got burned out, though!
Through the miracle of inattentiveness, my brain self-corrected that error. Thanks for correcting yourself, Craig. Oh, and for the info. That glowing catalytic converter sounds frightening.
Ok, CE = stop the car (unless you just filled up the tank and didn't turn the cap until you heard 3 clicks).
Mike, I don't know that I would stop the car on a regular CE light. Depends on how it's driving and if any strange noises, smells or instrument readings are present. If nothing is "wrong" I'd drive on.
NOW, the thing I was disagreeing with is driving on a *flashing* CE light. That's a misfire and has been covered, can be very bad for a variety of reasons.
Comments
-mike
My hydraulic jack came with one, and I should try it some time. If it works, it wouldn't be a bad idea to follow Eric's tip.
Check that spare, guys. My Forester was only a bit low, but the spare in my Miata is a donut and was at just 10 PSI! It's supposed to be at 65 psi! Yikes!
-juice
I'd been using a foot pump I got in '85 (for something like $5) which finally gave out (to me that's amazing). I'm now using my standing bike pump as well but is wearing me out adjusting the pressure on all four tires. (I'm not as young as I used to be... :-)
I second the motion to check the spare. Finally had to use the donut last year and the pressure was at something like 15 psi which could barely hold itself up, let alone an Outback!
Thanks again,
-Dan
The recall involves the inspection of fuel hoses, rear center seat belts and right front wheel bearing housings on some models, including Legacy L, GT and Outback.
The company said layers on the fuel hose may separate, causing it to leak. The hose recall affects 1,456 vehicles.
Subaru will check 1,977 cars to check for a casting flaw in the right front bearing housing that could lead to loss of vehicle control.
The company will also inspect 368 Legacy sedan vehicles with beige interiors to replace the rear-center seat belt, which may not extend to the full length.
The problems were found during quality-assurance testing, the company said. There have been no accidents or injuries, Subaru said.
Registered owners of vehicles potentially affected by the recall campaigns will be notified by mail. All repairs will be made at dealerships at no charge to the owners.
--
Also see Press Releases on SoA.
BRAVO Subaru! Sure, in my utopia cars would be perfect. Given the recent problems with Mitsubishi and Ford, it's refreshing to see a company own up to problems and fix them without being forced by a regulatory authority.
..Mike
..Mike
Personally, recalls like this do not really upset me much (except for the hassle for the customer's). I'm kind of proud of the way we jump on things if we even suspect a concern instead of burying our heads in the sand.
There are not too many vehicles in the inspection range, so it should be no major issue.
Don't forget to call if you are concerned about this in ANY way.
Thanks!
As I rapidly approach 30k on my 2k OB, I'd like some recommendations on what really should be done. (I do nothing myself.)
Again, my brakes squeak, but the dealer says they're ok. I'm being told elsewhere that Subies do this at this mileage, especially if you don't over use them.
Back to service, the manual says plugs and wires, one dealer recommends all fluids, alignment, tire rotation (I do that every 7500 miles) and plugs and wires for the discount price of 450 bucks.
I don't really want to pay that, but what should be done? How much of this really is necessary when you hit this point in one year?
Vince14
Brakes today are a bit noisy. It is a tough balance between brake pads with higher metallic content (so they last longer) or softer pads. They are quieter, but the have a very short life span. If you notice that they make noise after not being used for a bit, some gentle, but firm braking on a clear road will clear off some surface rust that can cause the noise. It's a good idea to get them checked however. The warranty on the pads is 12 months so, it's good to get them checked prior to the warranty expiring.
If your dealer is recommending additional services, ask them why before you choose from their menu. Then, make the decision that best suits you and your type of use.
-mike
I would have expected a good look over after a fuel injector failed and left me stranded 500 km away from home.
To top it all off, 4 months later, a second fuel injector failed! (at least this time it was only 30 km from home).
Needless to say I am still wary that the other 2 fuel injectors are going to fail. Not exactly confidence inspiring.
-- ash
According to the harness maker, I should find an extra plug behind the access port on the driver's side at the rear of the cargo area. I see a plug and socket in use there, but no "extra" socket, and I think I fished around behind the access port pretty well. A call to the installation number provided with the harness resulted in puzzlement and a suggestion to look in the spare tire well (no joy there). Do I need an additional part that lets the harness tie in to the junction I found? I was led to believe there would be a plug just waiting for the harness I bought. Hmmm.
P.S. The directions that came with the hitch itself were great, and we installed the hitch, which is indeed very "hidden" in short order. My only suggestion to others is to be sure you tighten the hitch to spec using a torque wrench. If you "guess", you'll probably not tighten the bolts enough.
Thanks.
--Jay
..Mike
..Mike
-mike
Check Engine begins flashing 30 seconds after starting. Rough idle (enough to vibrate gear shift, steering wheel, and car body). No power up a small incline; no power on level road in all gears and RPMs. Acceleration sluggish; to reach 55mph, must shift at 4-5,000 RPM. Upon opening hood, detected a burning odor, the acrid smell of burned electrical insulation.
This occurred 6 Dec. Not knowing what was going on and being paranoid, I called Subaru Roadside Assistance and had it towed at no charge from my house to the dealer (what a great service!). The mechanic repaired an open connection between the ECM and an ignition coil (no details); problem solved.
This morning the problem reoccurred; this time I drove to the dealer (after confirming driving with these symptoms wouldn't damage the engine).
Per a mechanic, diagnostics indicate an open connection between the wires from the ECM (replaced under recall) to the ignition coils (one per spark plug, unlike the good ol' days) on cylinders 3 and 4. It's possible that the ECM replacement triggered this problem. It's just a guess but it's the last thing that changed. (BTW "What changed?" is my first question when diagnosing Windoze or Unix problems.)
Tischer Subaru, Silver Spring, MD, is performing the work.
Original post: <15.992</A>> Service Program WXV-79
My free loaner is a hot-rod Ford Escort with 4 not on the floor, no it's a 4 door automagic. What have I done wrong to be sentenced to this vehicle? Kate, keeper of the Ford scriptures
..Mike . 00 GT wagon 5MT . Silver Spring MD USA
..Mike
A flashing CE light means that a misfire is occuring. In my opinion the vehicle should not be driven in this condition, particularly if it is persistent.
Instead of a plug wire or coil problem, you could get the flashing CE if timing were out of whack... and I assure you worse things could happen than a fried coil.
-Colin
..Mike
..Mike
-Colin
I'd have them assign someone to do nogthing but test and retest all the connections to the ECM, *carefully* - after all, this is the second time for the same problem, a problem that occurred after an ECM change. If they don't find anything I'd pound on them until they replaced the ECM again. You might have gotten a dud.
Regards,
-wdb
(Whose first question is also, "what changed?")
The mechanic replaced the ignition coil. When I asked, "aren't there two?", the CSR said she specifically asked the mechanic, who said there was only one. I'm sure something was lost during the translation from mechanical to lay speak, but it's still annoying that I've got to come here to get accurate info (not that I don't like you guys). Giving the mechanic the benefit of doubt, maybe he meant the ignition coil on cylinders 3 and 4, an accurate statement.
So Colin, I know WDB prefers payment in beer, how may I repay you?
Thanks Colin and WDB; I hope my ignition coil problem doesn't begin to compete with Ash's fuel injector saga.
..Mike
..Mike
Before i begin my rant, let me say how much I like my car. I bought a 98 forester this summer with 90k kms on it for a pretty good price. Since I have owned it, I have replaced the clutch and a wheel bearing and now need to replace the sway bar link and a crank case seal. This is getting ridiculous. What really gets my goat is that I did some research and found out all the things I fixed or need to fix, except the clutch have already been replaced once already. I also found out from another forester forum that clutch wear on 98's is not an unheard of thing. Up to this point I have chalked up the repairs to buyer beware and paid for them graciously. My patience with subaru however is wearing thin. The dealers I have dealt with have been very helpful but not very good at dealing with my 'beefs'. When I bought my forester, I was all excited about the car and was considering buying my wife one also. Given my past 9 months or so, I ve changed my mind. If anyone has any advice on what I should or could do, I would appreciate it greatly.
Thanks
Jason...
..Mike
..Mike
Since my 2nd injection failure, I've only had the rotors resurfaced at 19,000 miles because I was noticing a vibration.
Interesting symptoms you noted .. mine were very similar, except once past 4000 rpm, the injectors would start working again, and the CE light would stop flashing. I agree with the rest of the group though - and would stop driving it immediately (as I did with my OB).
As for the injectors, I haven't driven the OB anywhere for more than 2 hours continously in over 4 months. The injectors failed on trips over 5 hours. Ironically, they were consecutive trips (ie. back to back) - hence doing little for my confidence. Still I have to drive it home on Christmas day. Hmm .. maybe I'll make that the 26th :0|
-- ash
ps. mike, are you sure you don't want to compete
The reason the device on top of the intake manifold with plug wires connected to it is called a coil pack is simply because there are multiple coils inside of it. Like a six pack of beer. ;-)
If there were just one coil, say like on most older vehicles, then it would just be the coil. If it had a distributor the coil is before that and then the distributor is what all the plug wires connect to. It doesn't have a distributor because it's controlled by the ECU.
If it had coil-on-plug like an SVX, then it wouldn't have a coil pack because each of the six coils would be located individually.
-Colin
I'm sure this is more a problem of tires than of the vehicle. It came with Firestones (not sure which model) which I run at about 30 psi. I know inflation makes some difference, but I don't consider it the problem. Comments...?
Jason - same thing, but I'm not sure where you are so just tell the Rep. to talk to me after they start a case.
I hate to hear of vehicle failures, but I love the challenge of trying to make things right!
I look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks!
Patti
I am in Canada, is there someone specific I should call here. I also found out that the dealer knew about the wheel bearing under warranty and did not fix it. I also learned that they had previously fixed 2 sway bar links and the crank seal under warranty and they have failed again. If you can, let me know who to get in touch with please.
Thanks a lot,
Jason
I posted (just a few days ago) similar remarks about poor traction in the snow. I have yet to get stuck in snow (we got about 30 cm overnight), but I agree, the Outback w/Firestones on light snow is like melting ice cream sliding around in a bowl.
However, I am also convinced the reason is because the Wilderness tires are just not agressive enough to handle the weather. I have been contemplating an upgrade to either real snow tires or better all seasons.
Has anyone used Michelin MX4 Rainforce all seasons? how do they handle in the snow?
-- ash
Thanks!
Patti
Jim: yep, tires. Consider snow tires on steel rims. I found the Desert Duelers on the Forester adequate, and while I could spin the wheels if I tried, I also never got close to getting stuck. I now have less aggressive tread, but we get so little snow anyway.
Jay: my Forester had a harness plug in the wheel well. It was towards the back on the passenger side. No splicing required.
I think your Outback also has a harness hidden somewhere, since it's rated for towing (the other Legacy models do not, I think).
Jason: the wheel bearing issue I've seen before. Make sure they used the correct torque settings - bring this up to the mechanic that replaced yours, or it will happen again.
Sway bar links? Wow, how hard was that thing driven? The stock rear sway bar is a very wimpy 13mm, and flexes like Gumby.
You sure the previous owners didn't install some fat sway bars? This happens to some Miata owners that get fat bars and drive very hard, but usually those people are racing.
Clutch is hard to say. Yours was used to who knows how it was treated. Maybe the owner taught people how to drive stick shift!
-juice
Ash, Thanks. How did you know the injectors started working again? Is it as simple as, "the injectors started working again because once past 4000 rpm, I again had power." Or is there more to this, as in "the CE light changed from flashing to solid, indicating the injectors started working again". Sorry if I'm being dense. (and, hehe, no I don't want to compete)
Colin, I thought "pack" might mean "multiple" (a la beer LOL); thanks. Ah, the SVX had coil-on-plug, yes, I remember reading that. That's what I get for assuming; my bad. And maybe you didn't fix the problem but you sure helped me understand it. That's what I like about you and the folks on this board!
Patti, I'm not unhappy; my problem was fixed! (Though if you just want feedback on a dealer, I'll be happy to do that.)
Gosh I apologize to everyone if I came across as whining or ranting (it's the written word so it's par for the course); upon re-reading it I guess it's not my most neutral piece and for that I apologize. I'm just coming clean here. Subarus aren't perfect, no car is. I'm just reporting my experiences; maybe it'll help someone in a similar situation. It'll take a lot more than two trips to repair one problem to shake my enthusiasm for Subaru.
However, I do think some dealers could improve their feedback to the customer. Most of my dealer experiences have been "black hole" experiences.
car + problem + dealer + money = car - problem
To balance the equation, I'd like:
car + problem + dealer + money = car - problem + explanation
Back to watchin' the game, havin' a Bud.
..Mike
..Mike
Mike - On "lost in the translation". I had that problem a lot at my previous dealer. I have since found another dealer where the techs are only a few steps away from the advisors. AND the techs actually talk to the customers.
ash - What are the tires on the 99 OB? Michelin MV4's (MX4's?)? My wife says they're fine in the snow. Although she's only driven in a few inches and doesn't drive as hard as I do. She'll probably test them more since she's commuting to Morris County in NW NJ this winter. Might be time for some Arctic Alpins.
juice - When my former service manager told me I needed a new clutch, I told him I was so easy on it. He said maybe you're too easy on it and they need to be driven hard. Still had a problem after it was replaced. SoA took care of that though.
Dennis
-mike
Something like that.
-juice
If you get time, otherwise, I'll just be glad things are okay now.
when the injectors failed I noticed rough idling and shaking only at low rpms, and the CE light would start flashing indicating a misfire. once up at higher revs the light would stop flashing, and the shaking would also completely disappear. no power loss at higher revs, just at the lower ones.
in fact, I only noticed a problem at the end of trips when I got of highways and started going into lower rpms.
kind of weird isn't it?
the '99- OB had OE Michelin (MV4?) tires on it - I've heard nothing but good things about them. The MX4s are similar in nature but not made for "all-roads" driving, as they are a on-street passenger radial. We bought a set of MX4s in November for a Ford Contour so maybe I should go play with that car for a while.
Yet, nothing really beats having two sets of tires.
Also note that snow tires and ice tires serve different purposes. The Yokohoma Guardex's I have on my MX-6 are phenomenal for sticking to ice, but not great in slush at all.
Anyway, I really wish Subaru stuck with the Michelins...
-- ash
The two times the coil problem occured, it was on a chilly (for DC) morning (30-35F IIRC); the nights before had been mid 20F.
So would the CE light go from flashing to steady (if that is possible) or would it go from flashing to completely off? On my coil pack prob, it was initially steady, then flashed (and remained flashing) after 30 sec.
..Mike
..Mike
I believe snow tires are designed to pack ice/snow into the tread.
Look at Aquatreads, and they do the opposite - they expel water as quickly as possible.
-juice
..Mike
-mike
It's been a while, so I'm not sure if I completely recall. However, I can say for sure the light never went out. I'm pretty sure the flashing would stop eventually at higher rpms but the light would stay on. I think once I hit lower RPMs again, the light started flashing again (indicating a misfire). I didn't drive it much once the problem started.
Juice: they were Michelin XW something - you're right
-- ash
I would strongly recommend the use of Aquatreads in the snow, have had them, hated them, had an accident with them, and any tire guy I've spoken to recommends against them. Consumer Reports has some updated tire info, Michelin and Yokahama seem to make the best "A traction" rated all-seasons, but I do agree you can't beat 4 snow tires on any car in the snow.
Vince14
-juice
A friend of mine blew a coil pac on her Olds Calais with the Quad-4 engine (buzzes like a lawn mower). Because of the rich exhaust, the catalytic converter got clogged and glowed bright red from the heat (scary sight to look under a car and see a large red lightbulb where the cat used to be). Once we fixed the problem, everything seemed OK, and the car ran fine. I do imagine that a lot of the catalyst honeycomb core got burned out, though!
Craig
Ok, CE = stop the car (unless you just filled up the tank and didn't turn the cap until you heard 3 clicks).
..Mike
PS - That's bound to start some discussion
..Mike
Jason
NOW, the thing I was disagreeing with is driving on a *flashing* CE light. That's a misfire and has been covered, can be very bad for a variety of reasons.
-Colin