Honda Accord Coupe

zgrabill

I am not disagreeing with you, but why do you say it wouldn't sell well? If you mean that manual transmissions typically are not that popular in the states, I agree -- just look at the facts -- automatics overwhelmingly outsell manual transmissions. Personally, I love manual trannys.

But all the press buzz about the coupe seems to focus on the 6 speed. I wonder about Honda's strategy on making them so rare and pushing the price north of 30k (it doesn't have far to go). What's the point? When I talked with the Honda dealer and suggested that it would be better just to get a CL type s rather than paying a premium for the Accord, he suggested that it wasn't such a big deal since Acura customers rarely cross-check the Honda. I don't know if I agree with him, but it's possible to get a cl with 6 speed manual at invoice. I'm not in the market for either since I already have a new car, but the choice seems clear. Get the CL with no wait and no markup! Yes, yes, I know. The CL type S is still about 4K more. But who knows what the Accord markup will be? Nissan is getting as much as 15k for the Z (which is ridiculous!!!!).

s852

Manual transmissions just are not that popular in the US other than for exotic cars and little Miata-type roadsters.
I think BMW offers manual transmissions all their cars, but look how many automatics are driving around. Most Corvettes I've seen have been automatics. Ford finally had to change the Taurus SHO from 5-speeds to automatics a few years after it was introduced.
I think you could get a good discount below MSRP on the CL, but I doubt invoice, unless they were making the money up somewhere else (on a undervalued trade-in or marked up financing etc.). The 6 speed is not that high-volume of a model to go for invoice. I don't think you could even get invoice on a plain 2003 TL or CL automatic. Maybe on a left over 2002.
On the other hand, I would not pay more for a 2003 6-speed Accord than a G-35 coupe or other $30K+ car.
The CL is the older design, but it has more power and is an Acura with more prestige and better warranty and service.

robertsmx

But would you get G35 Coupe for about the same price as 'marked' Accord coupe? Possible, if demand wasn't high for G35 or any other car in the class.

Manual transmissions look like a tough sell in USA. Apparently, Prelude was a better seller with auto than with manual, a reason I had to wait for couple of weeks to get one. For Honda, it is also interesting to compare their Japanese market lineup from what it was couple of years ago to now.
Accord SiR 2.0 liter DOHC VTEC (180-200 HP)
auto: available
manual: *was* available

Accord Wagon 2.3 liter DOHC VTEC (190-200 HP)
auto: available
manual: *was* available

Apparently, Japanese market is no different, otherwise I couldn't see the reason in taking certain option off the market.

wale_bate1

BMW doesn't even bother with a manual for the 745.

Manuals are a tough sell here, and with manumatics, sequentials and CVTs becoming more sophisticated and available, it is likely that even fewer manuals will be offered in future vehicles.

I don't row my own any more, so an E-Shift or an AutoStick or an SMG is fine by me, but I feel for those who love the control, and find less opportunity to have it.

I would say that if the Accord were allocated at about 5% manual in the US, that would be ample supply for the actual demand without leaving any on the lots for the clearance event EOY.

Sounds like they won't even come close. Why bother with it at all, other than for the press?

le_chrome

Do moonroof visors reduce wind noise? I am deciding whether I should get it on my 03 Coupe next year.

mwar

Any updates on when we'll start seeing the '03 Coupe show up on dealer lots?

maxhonda99

le_chrome,

YOu you mean with the sunroof open or closed?
With sunroof closed, wind noise will increase due to the visor. With the sunroof open, not sure.

bowke

i didnt mean to come off like that...i stated my correction, and not only did you not respond, you completely ignored my post and said the same thing a second time. that was quite rude in the first place. if im wrong, im wrong, but i WILL acknowledge the fact. please have the courtesy to do the same.

p.s. i did make a mistake with our allocation for 6-speeders. we are only getting 2 per month. (16 total) for the '03 model year.

alinda

Before my last post, I do not recall directing any messages toward you. In fact, I stated that I _hoped_ I was wrong regarding the 6 speed coupe, as quite a few of my friends and customers were already on the waiting list. Therefore, I do not think I can be considered "rude" for posting the same information twice. If you page back, you will see that I was upset with the allocation information that I received from my managers. Who made you the correction police anyway? I am not trying to cause an Edmunds hysteria. I was trying to express my frustration. I have already admitted that I might be wrong -- we will have to wait to see if I am, as there are a number of conflicting reports across the country as to the number of available V6 6 speeds.

Long story short: the information I posted was not directed at you personally, so stop being such a know-it-all brat. Leave me alone, even if I am wrong. We are in different regions, after all, and my area might be getting fewer than yours.

so who thinks bowke is a stinker? I don't like mean people.

silverk21

alinda - try not to take Bowke's comments personal. BTW, who will win the bidding war for the 6-speed at your dealership? Still cannot believe that Honda is only going to make 2,500 of them.

alinda

Hi Silverk21. I have no idea who's gonna get it. We had to call all our customers who had deposits and tell them the deals were off -- we were setting price at MSRP, except for one a month we were gonna deck out a la the Honda show we went to. Now, I guess we're just gonna trick this one out and auction it off? Stinks. Like I said, about four of us at the dealership were on the list for them. I think some of us will settle for the autos now, and go without the 180 watt Bose system, perforated leather and the 6 speed gearbox. I just hope our store lets the sales staff drive it before they sell it to the highest bidder. We might have a chance, since now we're not letting anyone put down a deposit for it. Maybe I'll just wait for the re-entry of the Prelude. Or, since I'm in Texas, maybe I'll want the big ol truck by that time.

silverk21

I definately wanted to test drive one - but I doubt that any dealers will be willing. It defies reason why they would only produce such a limited supply. We can only hope that they are just testing the waters so to speak and may produce more in the future. Out of curiosity, have you seen or test driven the V6 auto coupe? Still patiently waiting for dealers to get them down here.

sphinx99

Re-entry of the Prelude? PLEASE clarify...

alinda

I have not driven any of the coupes, but I've seen all the trim levels, including the elusive 6 speeder, at the Honda new model lineup show and dealer convention. The 6 Cyl auto looks just as good as the 6 speed, in my opinion. Last I heard, the coupes are expected next month. However, could the longshoremen strike further delay the release by limiting parts? I know a lot of the coupes will be assembled in the US, but some of the parts do come from overseas.

I think Honda is just testing the waters to see if there is a demand for the 6 speed coupe -- it is a midsizer, after all, not a little roadster, and I think they have a mix of exclusivity and uncertainty with regards to the release of the sport coupe. I mean, we're all gung ho about it, but we're a tiny minority of car shoppers and buyers. I love my Prelude, but it wasn't exactly a popular item before it was phased out. As I heard it at a ride and drive for the Pilot, Honda is checking out the demand for a sportier car with the release of the new coupe. If demand is high, we'll see the new Prelude around 2005/06. (Supposedly, they'll keep the Prelude name. This is all just unsubstantiated rumor from a Honda team.) So the Prelude is a maybe, depending on marked demand. However, we'll for sure be getting a full sized SUV and truck around those times.

sphinx99

That's encouraging to hear. I love my Type SH, and as far as I am concerned the next step up in no less than a BMW M3 coupe. There are many thousands of stranded Prelude enthusiasts who miss the performance and handling pedigree of the Prelude and do not see its DNA in the Accord Coupe, Acura RSX-S, or Acura CL-S.

If Prelude were resurrected as the technology car that it always was, it'd be my next new car purchase without a doubt.

silverk21

alinda - thanks for the info. I was thinking the same thing today about the longshoreman strike having an affect on the coupe production. BTW - I think Honda could sell at least 1,500 6sp's in every major market alone. Just my opinion, but I guess Honda has their reasons and as you mentioned, the possible re-release of the Prelude may be why.

sphinx - I feel for you Prelude Enthusiasts. Personally never liked the looks (at least the last gen), but this was Hondas only "sport car" until the S2000 came out. Iam still holding off on my opinion of the '03 coupe until I see it in person. So far, the pics are great but you never know.

obiwankenobi1

...of racing my friend in his 97 Prelude with my 95 Integra GS-R. Those were good days and I hope they come back again! :-)

Obi

philly2002

This car would be perfect if it had RWD instead of FWD!!

s852

Maybe they are gauging demand for 2003. If they sell out fast throughout the entire year and not just the first few months, they'll make a lot more more in 2004. If not, they won't.
There is a limited market for these cars, but probably more than the extremely small number they say they are making for 2003.
Even if there were no limits set on the 6-speed coupe production, I bet they would still sell less than any other Accord model they sell.

preludexl

It's amazing to me how the jacka$$ is rude to others and turns around and calls other people rude. Cut the bull, there's nothing more insulting than a jacka$$ who pleads civility while flaunting his arrogance and expects redemption and respect from others. Next to lawyers, politicians, and card dealers, I believe car salesman are pretty high in the nefarious side.

If Honda dealers think they can charge MSRP (or a couple grand over at Bowke's) for a V6 accord coupe when the new Z is coming out along with the new Mazda RX8, and Infiniti's G35 coupe all between 25-28K. They must be dumber than I initially thought. Did I mention the others are rear wheel drive? Gasp. My advice shop around, most dealerships have internet shopping. I'm shopping california, arizona, utah, and nevada for my next accord. Plus no sales tax when you shop out of state.

wale_bate1

Ahhhh, my friend, but you make the mistake of lumping the Accord in with a group of coupes that are much more seriously aimed at DRIVING, rather than being an automotive appliance!

The Accord faithful will bite, and as Bowke points out, will do so over MSRP in many locations in the first few months. This is simply more of what they have gobbled up from Honda over the years, and as long as the car is reliable, they will keep on keeping on (a la Buick).

While I have never, nor will I ever, be so in lust with a car as to overpay for it, I cannot lay blame on the dealers for intro-gouging. They will take what they can get, which simply means there are consumers stupid enough to pay it. It is supply and demand, and as such it is legal, and frankly, even ethical. It's not like inflating the cost of wheat during a famine, for crying out loud!

You are right, however, that you will find a more principled dealer by shopping around, and certainly, you can bypass the arrogant attitude with a little foot or mouse work.

mustangdrew

Technically, you will have to pay sales tax when you register it in your home state (if your state has sales tax) Technically, the law is that if you purchase something (esp high ticket items like cars) from a state with a lower sales tax than your own, you have to pay the difference to your state which is known as "use tax" However, most people can get away without reporting such purchases, but I would think most states can get you when you go to register the car.

If you wanted to be perfectly honest and legal (who really is?) if you bought a $100 watch in a state with 5% tax, but you lived in a different state with 7%, you would owe your home state $2! There are "use tax" forms you fill out annually in some states. But hardly anyone except the most audit conscience businesses actually do it!

silverk21

Finally saw the new coupes this weekend. First one was a LXi4 in sapphire blue. I hate to say it, but I did not like the looks. The door handle looked out of place - too low, and the overall proportions were not pleasing to the eye -small trunk lid, smaller windows, boxy looking side mirrors, etc. After being totally disappointed I decided that I needed to see one in a different color, so I went to another dealership that had every color except red and white. The black and green one were the best looking followed by graphite. The silver one was ok, but not that impressive. Maybe I will have to get used to the new body style, but for now I can't say that I like the new look.

As for the interior and build quality, the new coupe is a vast improvement over the previous generation in every respect.

s852

On the coupe, you get split folding rear seats, but the sedan only gets a solid folding seat with a ski pass-through.
The EXV6 sedans have power seats on both sides, but the coupe only has power on the drivers side.
When I first saw the pictures on the internet, I thought the coupe looked better than the sedan, now I think the sedan looks better than the coupe in real life. The coupe looks a little like a Mercedes in the back, which is okay, but it looks way too much like a Mercury Cougar from the side. Not ugly, but looks "down scale." It will interesting to see what Acura does with the 2004 TL and CL to make them worth buying next fall.
What other differences besides the number of doors and rear styling between the 2003 Accord coupes and sedans?
Do outside mirrors fold in on both coupes and sedans or either?
Too bad Honda no longer seems to offer the dealer-installed accessory of sliding rear window sunshades like the new Camrys and Passats have standard or available from the factory.

maxamillion1

but the sedan is definately more practical. The coupe's styling is much better, but the sedan isn't bad looking either. I jus love the roundness of the coupe. I actually think it looks better than the current Accord coupe. Actually I haven't really cared for the current Accord coupe since 2001 when it received the facelift.

nowakj66

I am distressed by what I am reading here - that the V6 with a 6 speed will be a rare animal indeed -- at least initially.

Is this due to technical difficulty or just percieved market indifference to a manual transmission and the 6?

I drove a 1992 Prelude till last year and I certainly enjoyed that stick shift.

Anyone who has driven Preludes and the new 2003 I4 Accord Coupe - how does the stick measure up?

Or if I tend towards a sporty driving experience around $25,000 would I better off with an Acura RSX type S / Subaru WRX / Alitima with a stick than an Accord with a stick?

silverk21

I don't think anyone but Honda knows for sure why it is being produced in such a limited quantity. Past sales figures may reflect that manuals are not worth the trouble since the market rarely goes for them. It remains to be seen how the market will react to this one, but I'am willing to bet they can sell alot more than 2,500.

I would at least wait until the 6spd comes out before deciding on another car. You never know, you may be able to get one at a fair price.

sphinx99

Here's a thought - could an Accord V6 Coupe hurt the sales of the S2000 and RSX-S?

It's comfortable and superbly built. It looks relatively nice (not as nice as the S2000 but nicer than the RSX). It's more comfortable than both. It has way more sheer engine grunt, and a shifter that's probably every bit as good. It lacks the 10/10ths handling capabilities but is built off a platform that's nearly as stiff as you'll find in a coupe. It has a tremendous amount of luxury. It's priced comparably to the RSX-S and costs quite a bit less than the S2000. Basically, it's not a bad car at all. Could it be that there are a lot of waffle buyers who don't exactly know what they want, are looking at Honda performance vehicles and might pick the Accord 6-speed over the "prestige" performance vehicles in the Honda lineup?

This may apply less to the S2000 but these are all relatively low volume cars, and I for one can see a *lot* of RSX-S aspirants opting for the equally-fast V6 coupe over a RSX-S. Maybe Honda's keeping volume low, to start, to make sure the car doesn't impact RSX-S (and to a lesser degree S2000) sales. If you think about it, folks looking for a 6-speed coupe are going to find the Accord to be one of the only games in town at its power output. Altima/Maxima are 4-door sedans only, IS300 coupe isn't out and costs more, G35c is nice but also costs more, RSX-S is smaller and lacks the engine grunt, 3-series coupe is far more expensive, the V6 6-speed will blow the doors off the various pocket rockets such as the GTI, Celica, Eclipse, etc. The V6 6-speed could definitely eat up sales from the RSX that itself is selling at a fraction of the volume that the old Integra did.

robertsmx

Whatever the volume Honda has set for Accord V6/MT coupe may have to do with a few things IMO...
1. Conservatively set sales target for the first year to evaluate inventory turnaround.
2. Existence of CL-S/6-speed
3. Market demand. I was surprised to see very few MT/Prelude. And believe it or not, I have seen only one Altima 3.5SE on the road to date, and tons of those with four banger. Not sure if it is a Dallas thing, but how many Altimas is Nissan selling with V6/MT? Even V6 for that matter.

IMO, it may be more of market demand thing. Even in the Japanese market, couple of years ago Honda had several (Accord) models they offered with manual or auto transmission. Now, only Accord Euro-R is being offered with manual, and none of the Accord models with 2.4 liter I-4 are being offered with manual transmission in Japan, OTOH, we get manual transmission with that engine here.

And then, Honda offers cars like RSX-S in America that are offered only with 6-speed manual, so they have atleast one car in the segment that caters to the 'manual-enthusiasts', and they intended to sell about 10K units of those every year.

nowakj66

I guess a preference for a manual is shrinking one.

The appeal of automatics is convenience in bumper to bumper traffic? Hands free for cofee or cell phone?

I guess if you want a manual and you ever want to resell it, it becomes important to pick a car that people EXPECT a manual in.

For example a 4 door Accord 4 cylinder can come with a manual, but I think it might be hard to resell.

But a Subaru WRX with an automatic would be similarly hard to resell.

So would a 2 door Accord with a 4 or a 6 and a manual be tough to resell? I am guessing rarity would help the v6 manuals that do get made. The 4?

silverk21

Ah, manuals do make the driver pay more attention to the road. No reading the paper, drinking coffee while talking on the phone in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic. No wonder they are hard to sell in the US.

joeandcarol2

If the lack of the production numbers for the 6 speed is a percieved lack of demand, I think Honda is mistaken. An awful lot of 6 speed G35 coupes will be made. And i have lots of altima SE 5 speeds on dealers lots. Nissan seems to be the only source of V6 manual cars these days. And they get that market segment.

robertsmx

honda probably sells more cars with manual transmission than any other in America, so they must know well about what sells and what doesn't.
If there was a market, I can bet they would sell a lot more.

BTW, I've seen only two Altima 3.5SE on the road, and one of them belongs to a colleague. She has the auto version though. Can't say about the other car.

amazing2u

You maybe right,

But I prefer a company that offers me a choice of tranny compared to one that makes the decision for me!

If Honda/Acura made a 4 door V6 with a stick, I'm sure a lot of people would buy it (based on all the people who complain )... But, according to Honda, you must be a 2 door lover (which I'm not) AND be on a waiting list to drive a V6 with a stick!

nowakj66

A little late but I saw my first Accord Coupe in the flesh at the dealer today. I think they will have a hit if the car drives as well as it looks.

The design is rounded. You know, there are really only 2 ways to design a car - roundy or square and Honda alternates. The last accord coupe was more square - this one more roundy. I think they do this so you notice the car is new. :-)

Anyway the front of the car seems wider than the back, giving it a sort of reverse triangle shape. The headlights and tail lights are quite dramatic. The headlights in particular follow the "stretch the headlight halfway up the hood" that the latest Celica made so popular.

The gaps in between body panels put my Subaru to shame - 1 credit card wide.

The car was a black EX I4 automatic. They also had a silver one.

Maybe an EX with a 5 speed and an I4 would not be so bad.

m_les

anybody have any idea as to why the scathing edmunds 2003 honda accord review was removed from the site?

alinda

There might be a demand among car guys here for a 4 door V6 with a stick, but I've only had one customer ask me about it at the dealership. And then his wife nixed the idea.

wale_bate1

alinda's on it.

What we, as enthusiasts to one degree or another, would like to see in an Accord can and does differ greatly from what the average American driver is looking for, especially when it comes to manual transmissions.

The performance capabilities, other than as a marketing tool, mean little to the consumer. They want an appliance for driving, and as long as it doesn't have a total wimp image, the simpler to operate the better.

I'd rather see a six-speed SMT offered than a stick, personally. .02, and worth evey penny...
;-)

nowakj66

I noticed that the edmunds review critical of the Accord was removed as well. What gives?

sphinx99

You're right, it's gone. Hmm.

m_les

very likely, edmunds removed the review because honda did not like it. perhaps our messages questioning this will be removed as well.

diploid

So does this mean that all the people who moan and groan every time a BMW wins a comparison test will have the article removed too?!

obiwankenobi1

One word = Ugly

Better buy up those 02 models while they still have them. The interior was nice, but the exterior was just plain awful. Too bad too. I loved the 98-02 model. Almost bought one.

Guess I'll have to wait till 2007 to see the next one!

Obi

Kirstie_H

Conspiracy theorists, unite! (unless, of course, one of your fellow theorists could be a spy... hm...)

The new Honda Accord Sedan & Coupe are really striking a chord with enthusiasts -- hardly anyone remains ambivalent on the new design. I'll see what's happened to the review. In the mean time, hand me a clue -- was a it an Accord Coupe-specific review, or a best/worst of article?

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

dfong87

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/68223/article.html

diploid

Where/how did you find it dfong? It certainly is not listed in the index of reviews for Honda cars.

diploid

Sheesh vero, you weren't incognito when that review came out. It was the buzz in all the Honda boards.

dfong87

it appeared as a link on the side one of the Honda Accord forum pages. [lucky or bizarre, who knows...]

midnightcowboy

I got a quote for a 6-sp w/nav for $27.7

philly2002

I know if I asked this question on the Infiniti G35 Coupe Forum I would get seiously pounced on.

I received a 2003 Honda Coupe Brochure in the mail the other day. I was pretty impressed to say the least. If for anything, I'm certainly interested in purchasing a coupe V-6 EX 6-speed in February.

On the other hand I have plans to purchase an Infiniti G35 Coupe very soon. I'm just confused I guess. Maybe this a no brainer for some.