When people were touting the superiority of the new UNRELEASED Duramax it was against the "old' numbers. I'd be curious to see a rematch with the 6 speeds. I think I'll concede the Automatic crown...........for now.
SUPER-SERIOUS RECALL OF FORD/FIRESTONE/BRIDGESTONE EXECUTIVE BRAINS
From Big Dave-40's Executive Suite - an exclusive, startling tale from the First Amendment Grapevine. It seems that Ford Motor Company has put its big guns on the big tube to tell us that, "The Ford Family", stands behind all of its vehicles and won't stop until this Public Relations Debacle with Firestone and Bridgestone goes away ... kind of like the old Firestone 500 bedtime story. Most of you probably remember it: "Get Rid of Your Mother-In-Law, Buy Her a Ford Pinto with Firestone 500's on It". Well, Ford is doing its level best to lie to you the way you want to hear it. How many Explorer owners were informed that their vehicle's tires were tested with (of all things) a Ford pick-up!!! The Ford Guys knew they were killing off the "Family" for at least five years!! It's been said that Firestone Workers and Management (along with Bridgestone) probably knew they were killing peeps (us'ns) for about ten Years before someone blew the whistle on them. Even our fine Government had some data that showed serious flaws as the carnage went on unabated!! You might well ask, "What's next?" Well, wonder no more. Through his Worldwide contacts at every level involved - from the bars outside the Firestone and Bridgestone Factories right down to the Gross Pointe (correct spelling for these vermin) Country Clubs where laughter at wicked, killing crashes was not unusual - Our Leader, Big Dave-40, has come upon the latest scuttlebutt that ya'll need to know. THERE'S A GROUNDSWELL OF PUBLIC OPINION THAT IS NEARING TIDAL WAVE PROPORTIONS ... IT'S A PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT TO RECALL ALL THE BRAINS BEHIND FORD, FIRESTONE AND BRIDGESTONE. Let's face facts: they need to be refitted or, at least, regrooved immediately. Either they seek serious professional psychiatric help or they are out of the business for good. Their sociopathic actions have killed too many. Big Dave says, "Enough!" They've got to go and get re-shrunk. Get their Wives out of therapy and put them in post haste. We all know how lousy Ford pick-up trucks really are. To use them as a test bed for killer tires to be mounted on that Toy called an "Explorer", is beyond insane. These guys lied, cheated and killed all the way to the bank. NO MORE!! There must be some fine print in the Explorer Owner's Manual that says, "not for 'exploration' beyond your own driveway!! Hey Folks, these Ford Folks are nuts to think we believe their PR [non-permissible content removed]. Straight from the hearts of the leading PR Agencies in the World. Just watch, they'll do everything in their power to do the least possible they have to do. They'll never live up to Mr. Studebaker's Motto, "Give Them More Than They Expect", except in the most macabre sense when they give you a $30,000. piece of crap with dollar store sneakers and tell you that you can go crusin' the Interstate like you're drive a Pit Bull. Well, the Pit Bull has gout and it's killing people still TODAY. Let's join the Groundswell. Write to Ford and tell them the Executives must go back to square one or go to jail -- no passing GO and no collecting anything but what they deserve, a high-speed ride in a Firestone equipped Explorer or Ford Pick-up "designed to act like one". That won't be hard, they already act like an aborted Yugo!! Write your Congressman, your Senator, the D.O.T., the Pres. and Hillary too. You are called to action, don't let this chance to right a wrong go by. Remember, "There is nothing to insure the triumph of evil but that good men sit idly by and do nothing." IT'S YOUR TURN, PUT YOUR SHOULDER TO THE BIG WHEELS AND PUSH 'EM OUT NOW!!!
I have a copy of a Ford Motor Co service bulletin that advises tire dealers not to put "high performance tires" or after market wheels on a 91 explorer or it might roll over. I got it from my tire supplier in late '91.
some of you must be incredibly naive, not to mention reactionary. When the roll over tests are finally implemented at the NHTSA (a good thing to come out of all this bruhaha and too long in coming), we will most likely find out that all of our pickups and all SUVs are prone to roll over. They will undoubtedly find out that emergency situations (such as a blow out, sudden avoidance maneuver, side-impact, etc.) require some finely tuned driving skills in these vehicles in order to avoid a roll over. Wow, what scintillating news! Come on, we didn't already know that?!?
People have been clamoring for and buying the SUVs especially in huge numbers. Most, even though they do not know how to drive them and don't bother to find out. Then, like the family that is shocked when their house -- built in the flood zone! -- is flooded, they clamor for the government to save them from their own foolishness.
These vehicles are built to handle cargo, towing and/or off-roading. Those goals are almost totally opposed to road-hugging, good braking and high stability at highway speeds. So, people with no intention of using the vehicle as it was designed to be used and no inclination to learn its special handling characteristics (and, yes, shortcomings!) are taken totally by surprise when a bad event (tire blowout), undoubtedly met with untrained and poorly executed driver reaction, results in a high-center-of-gravity vehicle rolling over. Gee whiz, I guess ignorance isn't necessarily bliss after all, huh?
Are these companies' responsible for their actions? Yes! Should they have done and should they now do a much better job of testing, tracking complaints and correcting problems? Yes! Should people have expected these vehicles to behave like passenger cars, drive them accordingly and have no knowledge of how to deal with an emergency situation? NO!
So, why don't we call for those actions and cut the reactionary, McCarthy-istic call to "hang the pinkos?"
Oh yeah, I forgot. I'm posting in the testosterone zone where neither common sense nor reason nor thought seem to have any place.
(although understand that I am not making excuses for Ford or Firestone), in such circumstances you should avoid stomping on the brakes and you should keep steering straight. In a blow-out situation I would think that untrained instinct would make most of us tromp hard on the brakes and probably also try to steer somewhere rather than holding it steady and letting the vehicle slow on its own. I base that opinion on the absolutely incorrect instinctive response everyone has to a sliding situation, so I am admittedly extrapolating here.
My point isn't to place the blame totally on the consumer. But it is to say that the consumers were dangerously ignorant if they bought a high-center-of-gravity vehicle and expected to drive it just like a car and also had no knowledge/training on how to deal with a panic situation. My guess is that description fits a huge percentage of the Explorer buyers and probably almost all of the drivers of the ones that wrecked.
This doesn't absolve Ford from their obligation to have warned the drivers, but didn't they do just that with the (again admittedly government-mandated) roll over warnings? How much obligation is there for companies or government to protect us from our own not-so-blissful ignorance? Don't people have any obligation to take the consequences for their own choices? Must government outlaw anything that we can abuse? If so, there will be no more cars at all.
I only mean to take the steam out of the "the [fill in the company/government agency name] is entirely to blame!" reaction and remember that people chose to buy these things and all too often chose to remain ignorant of the dangers and of the proper reactions under tire failure conditions.
people are ignorant about driving, not all but a large percentage. I live & drive in Atlanta traffic. Prior to this I lived in Houston from 1981 til 1986, I was a tow truck driver then.
Most of the people I see and help, don't have a clue how to check the oil let alone change a flat. One lady(not picking it just was most recent) driving a fairly new car didn't know if the car had a spare tire!!???
Do you think she or many other people have a clue about safe driving. To be quite honest I will not ride with anyone that I don't KNOW I can trust.
I hear about this stuff and can't believe their own families can ride with them. I have had at least 2 blowouts in my life. Once in my GMC 1500 when I was going in excess of 85mph. Attention grabber that was but no problems.
on the basis of they knew the tires were bad. Yeah, it's more likely to flip being a SUV, but there not flipping cause the tires are good. BTW, probably 95% of these have ABS, so yes, you should stomp on the brakes...
How is it that the Explorer has less roll-overs in accidents versus any other SUV in it's class yet Ford gets dumped on? Sounds like a witch-hunt by the tree-huggers that are anti-suv. Remember the Isuzu and Suzuki "crisis"?? I guess you can't scare people away from suvs if they aren't familiar with the model. With the recent Firestone problems, which by the way have surfaced with GM's Yukons, etc as well, the greenies can scare the public from their nemisis.
Exactly! You are not supposed to touch your brakes at all when a tire blows, instead letting the car slow down while avoiding steering changes as well. The idea is to try to remain stable on the remaining (we hope!) three good tires and avoid adding any forces that could further destabilize the vehicle.
Of course we should all be praying we never have a blowout at all and most especially not on a tight turn! If it should happen under those circumstances, then forget everything else and enjoy the show as your life flashes before your eyes....
2-3 times in my life time. I try not to make it a habit anyway. Blowout I'd put some break pressure to slow the vehicle down, but not stomp. Like I said I almost never stomp, and I haven't been following this situation too closly. All I know is Explorers are rolling and there are bad tires. Didn't know Yukon's were having the same trouble. To me it's common sense not to stomp on the brake especially if it starts going sideways. I guess it all depends which tire blows out as to the severaty of the crisis. I would think a front would be much worse because of steering...
For some weird reason the left REAR tire on the Explorers are the ones blowing out with the most frequency. Things that are being checked are road temp. and weight distribution, which is strange to me as it would seem that an SUV would be more nose heavy then anything.
rotate their tires on SUV's by moving the rears straight forward, then crossing thefronts to the rear. That would put the right front on the left rear after being in the highest stress corner. Most people turn harder to the left that right, and few check air pressure regularly. My guess is that after feeling a slight vibration, they get their tires rotated and balanced, but that tire is already preparing to blow out. This is my explaination to the left rear phenomynom. ymmv.
I have never switched from side to side, though. I always thought radials stayed on the same side.
All my cars have directional tires so they also stay on the same side.
My only opinion on this fiasco is that it seems all the tires came from one plant and Ford was lucky enough to get those tires.
This BS about testing tires on 150's etc. is idiotic. Are these people saying they only buy OEM tires on their own vehicles when they wear out? If a tire meets the load rating and is DOT approved it should work regardless of the vehicle it's on.
Seems a bus load of children perished when their bus went out of control. It was later confirmed by witnesses that the bus was following a Toyota that appeared to have a green substance spewing from underneath. When the State Troopers caught the mystery Toyota it seems the head gasket had blown making the road slippery causing the fatal bus accident. Toy paid everyone off and made them sign a no-fault clause in the settlement.
these are not normal blowouts, all of the tread is coming off the tire at once, so when the wheel hits the pavement there is no controlling the situation i don't care how good a driver someone thinks they are when the metal hits the road nothing but the grace of God is going to save your ace. i thought we were talking trucks here anyway??? DODGE WINS Racefan9's Dodge Ram / 300m
Is the Bamatundra or spoog syndrome contagious? Posting the same story in so many topics? Nothing else better to do? Where's the link so that we can read your interpretation for ourselves? Have anymore morbid tales from the crypt?
I am looking to buy a diesel truck. Right now, my ideal vehicle is a F-250 regular cab XLT, 4x4. Does anyone have information or can you direct me to information on the new GM diesel? Reliability, price and fuel economy are high priority. Anyone have any ideas?
cool man i have 42k trouble free miles on mine, have only changed the oil/filter and air filter. don't know much about diesels have no use for one but my bro-in-law has a f-250 powerstroke turbo diesel and he loves it, said the dodge was to expensive.
the only thing i know about the new GM diesel is that the new HD line has a Duramax 6.6L V8 with 300hp Heres a link you may have already seen: http://www.gmc.com/sierra/duramax.html
nobody died in mine buddy...I guess you found a friend in vince8 who thought the story was funny as his first reaction was "LOL" post 79 topic #2298. Do we describe this as a morbid sense of humor? I guess that the similarities between f150, vince8 and you. ROFLMAO!!
Racefan9 Thanks for the information and link. I think I may wait to buy my pickup. I have a lot more homework and research to do. I appreciate your time. Beckes
Guess he's your friend now also!!!(see post #84 same topic) I have as much in common with the before mentioned individuals as you do with Zbadunixgomerbld1234.
What's sort of weird is when tim posted his Firestone tires on the Concorde picture you thought it was pretty funny even though REAL people died.
I'd hate to think you suck up like.........well never mind.
Some information you pickup folks might be interested in.
Don't know if this story has gone national yet or not. Investigative reporters at a Seattle TV station discovered that Ford is installing the recalled series Firestones as SPARES on their NEW Ranger pickups. The tires have the words "Temporary Use Only" stamped on them in very small letters that you could not even see in the dark or the rain. Ford defends the practice saying they are perfectly acceptable for use as spares. LOL!!
I'd say Dodge is a victim of advance publicity of its new model. The new 1500 is expected to be shown at the Detroit auto show in January, and like the Dakota, the name "Quad Cab" will actually be a crew cab. And unlike the Ford F150 SuperCrew, Dodge will offer standard 6-1/2 and 8 foot beds instead of Ford's 5-1/2 footer. Production then begins late spring as a 2002 model. The 2500 and 3500 will follow a year later (shown in January of 2002, production in late spring 2002 as 2003 models), and like Ford and GM, the heavy duty trucks will feature adjusted styling - more rugged appearance.
pardon the delay in response, just back from 2 weeks of vacation
kcram Co-Host - Smart Shopper & FWI Conferences edmunds.com Town Hall
> These vehicles are built to handle cargo, > towing and/or off-roading.
Maybe so.
But Ford specifically MARKETS them as kiddie-haulers to soccer moms. Therein lies the CRIMINAL activity.
Less than 2% of the owners will ever leave a paved road, and Ford knows it! We aren't talking about dump trucks here, we're talking about vehicles which Ford specifically targets at young affluent parents who mostly don't have a clue about COG and other such technobabble. Ford is selling them "cool wheels" and should be fully liable for the fact that the Exploder is unsafe in the hands of that target market.
Therein lies the problem. Ford (or GM) does not design it as a kiddi hauler. they design it as a heavy offroad vehicle. And it just so happens that the kiddie haulers buy it.
They have designed a kiddie hauler and no one buys it....its called a minivan.
Ever bother to read the permanent sticker on the sunvisor of all SUV's? It tells you that you are driving a truck and that is does not handle like a car and you should adjust your driving style for that. Maybe the people who buy SUV's should learn to drive before they trade in their 2500# car for a 5000# vehicle. Dont believe me about most SUV drivers being brain dead? How many times have you seen an SUV full of kids with their mom driving 75 MPH down the highway? Holding a company responsible for misuse of their product is stupid.
Should make them qualify on their license for operating heavy duty vehicles. Or allow fewer points to be accumulated for traffic infractions. Same for cell phone users. And make them more accountable with higher liability requirements of insurance.
They scare me because they weave, cut in and out, slam on the brakes with no regard for anyone else, in a 4000-5000 lb vehicle.
I couldn't disagree with you more. The manufacturer markets these vehicles as all-purpose vehicles and should not be driven as a car but an all-purpose vehicle. People need to take resonsibility for thier own actions. It would be different if the manufacturer was hiding or disguising facts but they are not. If i went with your philosophy a kitchen knife would come with countless warning labels, an owners manual, and a video for safe operation. Get real. Use some common sense.
Comments
I know you're a Dodge guy, maybe next year????
SUPER-SERIOUS RECALL OF FORD/FIRESTONE/BRIDGESTONE EXECUTIVE BRAINS
From Big Dave-40's Executive Suite - an exclusive, startling tale from the First Amendment Grapevine.
It seems that Ford Motor Company has put its big guns on the big tube to tell us that, "The Ford Family", stands behind all of its vehicles and won't stop until this Public Relations Debacle with Firestone and Bridgestone goes away ... kind of like the old Firestone 500 bedtime story. Most of you probably remember it: "Get Rid of Your Mother-In-Law, Buy Her a Ford Pinto with Firestone 500's on It".
Well, Ford is doing its level best to lie to you the way you want to hear it. How many Explorer owners were informed that their vehicle's tires were tested with (of all things) a Ford pick-up!!! The Ford Guys knew they were killing off the "Family" for at least five years!! It's been said that Firestone Workers and Management (along with Bridgestone) probably knew they were killing peeps (us'ns) for about ten Years before someone blew the whistle on them. Even our fine Government had some data that showed serious flaws as the carnage went on unabated!!
You might well ask, "What's next?" Well, wonder no more. Through his Worldwide contacts at every level
involved - from the bars outside the Firestone and Bridgestone Factories right down to the Gross Pointe
(correct spelling for these vermin) Country Clubs where laughter at wicked, killing crashes was not unusual - Our Leader, Big Dave-40, has come upon the latest scuttlebutt that ya'll need to know. THERE'S A GROUNDSWELL OF PUBLIC OPINION THAT IS NEARING TIDAL WAVE PROPORTIONS ...
IT'S A PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT TO RECALL ALL THE BRAINS BEHIND FORD, FIRESTONE AND BRIDGESTONE. Let's face facts: they need to be refitted or, at least, regrooved immediately. Either they seek serious professional psychiatric help or they are out of the business for good. Their sociopathic actions have killed too many. Big Dave says, "Enough!"
They've got to go and get re-shrunk. Get their Wives out of therapy and put them in post haste.
We all know how lousy Ford pick-up trucks really are. To use them as a test bed for killer tires to be mounted on that Toy called an "Explorer", is beyond insane. These guys lied, cheated and killed all the way to the bank. NO MORE!! There must be some fine print in the Explorer Owner's Manual that says, "not
for 'exploration' beyond your own driveway!!
Hey Folks, these Ford Folks are nuts to think we believe their PR [non-permissible content removed]. Straight from the hearts of the leading PR Agencies in the World. Just watch, they'll do everything in their power to do the least possible they have to do. They'll never live up to Mr. Studebaker's Motto, "Give Them More Than They Expect",
except in the most macabre sense when they give you a $30,000. piece of crap with dollar store sneakers
and tell you that you can go crusin' the Interstate like you're drive a Pit Bull. Well, the Pit Bull has gout and it's killing people still TODAY. Let's join the Groundswell. Write to Ford and tell them the Executives must go back to square one or go to jail -- no passing GO and no collecting anything but what they deserve, a high-speed ride in a Firestone equipped Explorer or Ford Pick-up "designed to act like one". That won't be
hard, they already act like an aborted Yugo!!
Write your Congressman, your Senator, the D.O.T., the Pres. and Hillary too.
You are called to action, don't let this chance to right a wrong go by. Remember, "There is nothing to insure the triumph of evil but that good men sit idly by and do nothing." IT'S YOUR TURN, PUT YOUR SHOULDER TO THE BIG WHEELS AND PUSH 'EM OUT NOW!!!
Yours For Safer Truckin',
U.S.T.F. COMMANDER BIG DAVE-40
Harry
People have been clamoring for and buying the SUVs especially in huge numbers. Most, even though they do not know how to drive them and don't bother to find out. Then, like the family that is shocked when their house -- built in the flood zone! -- is flooded, they clamor for the government to save them from their own foolishness.
These vehicles are built to handle cargo, towing and/or off-roading. Those goals are almost totally opposed to road-hugging, good braking and high stability at highway speeds. So, people with no intention of using the vehicle as it was designed to be used and no inclination to learn its special handling characteristics (and, yes, shortcomings!) are taken totally by surprise when a bad event (tire blowout), undoubtedly met with untrained and poorly executed driver reaction, results in a high-center-of-gravity vehicle rolling over. Gee whiz, I guess ignorance isn't necessarily bliss after all, huh?
Are these companies' responsible for their actions? Yes! Should they have done and should they now do a much better job of testing, tracking complaints and correcting problems? Yes! Should people have expected these vehicles to behave like passenger cars, drive them accordingly and have no knowledge of how to deal with an emergency situation? NO!
So, why don't we call for those actions and cut the reactionary, McCarthy-istic call to "hang the pinkos?"
Oh yeah, I forgot. I'm posting in the testosterone zone where neither common sense nor reason nor thought seem to have any place.
Don't mind me. Return to ranting....
I know how to drive = good
bad tires + good driver = bad results
I don't think there is anything special you can do rolling down the interstate at 60 MPH to prevent a faulty tire blowout...
My point isn't to place the blame totally on the consumer. But it is to say that the consumers were dangerously ignorant if they bought a high-center-of-gravity vehicle and expected to drive it just like a car and also had no knowledge/training on how to deal with a panic situation. My guess is that description fits a huge percentage of the Explorer buyers and probably almost all of the drivers of the ones that wrecked.
This doesn't absolve Ford from their obligation to have warned the drivers, but didn't they do just that with the (again admittedly government-mandated) roll over warnings? How much obligation is there for companies or government to protect us from our own not-so-blissful ignorance? Don't people have any obligation to take the consequences for their own choices? Must government outlaw anything that we can abuse? If so, there will be no more cars at all.
I only mean to take the steam out of the "the [fill in the company/government agency name] is entirely to blame!" reaction and remember that people chose to buy these things and all too often chose to remain ignorant of the dangers and of the proper reactions under tire failure conditions.
Most of the people I see and help, don't have a clue how to check the oil let alone change a flat. One lady(not picking it just was most recent) driving a fairly new car didn't know if the car had a spare tire!!???
Do you think she or many other people have a clue about safe driving. To be quite honest I will not ride with anyone that I don't KNOW I can trust.
I hear about this stuff and can't believe their own families can ride with them. I have had at least 2 blowouts in my life. Once in my GMC 1500 when I was going in excess of 85mph. Attention grabber that was but no problems.
Makes me wonder.
Remember the Isuzu and Suzuki "crisis"?? I guess you can't scare people away from suvs if they aren't familiar with the model. With the recent Firestone problems, which by the way have surfaced with GM's Yukons, etc as well, the greenies can scare the public from their nemisis.
Of course we should all be praying we never have a blowout at all and most especially not on a tight turn! If it should happen under those circumstances, then forget everything else and enjoy the show as your life flashes before your eyes....
Things that are being checked are road temp. and weight distribution, which is strange to me as it would seem that an SUV would be more nose heavy then anything.
Harry
All my cars have directional tires so they also stay on the same side.
My only opinion on this fiasco is that it seems all the tires came from one plant and Ford was lucky enough to get those tires.
This BS about testing tires on 150's etc. is idiotic. Are these people saying they only buy OEM tires on their own vehicles when they wear out? If a tire meets the load rating and is DOT approved it should work regardless of the vehicle it's on.
i thought we were talking trucks here anyway???
DODGE WINS
Racefan9's Dodge Ram / 300m
Thanks,
DBeckes
the only thing i know about the new GM diesel is that the new HD line has a Duramax 6.6L V8 with 300hp Heres a link you may have already seen:
http://www.gmc.com/sierra/duramax.html
http://www.pcreprints.com/eprint/63272_digitas/
Only 2 topics.
No.
Don't have one.
No.
Gotta admit, though, it was almost as stupid as your lane squatting Lightning story. LOL!!!
Thanks for the information and link. I think I may wait to buy my pickup. I have a lot more homework and research to do. I appreciate your time.
Beckes
What's sort of weird is when tim posted his Firestone tires on the Concorde picture you thought it was pretty funny even though REAL people died.
I'd hate to think you suck up like.........well never mind.
Besides, we know you're a joker too. Anybody that posts, "Dodge wins" has got to have a sense of humor!!!!!!
What's even funnier is this topic is on its second legs...
Chevy WON
Thats the END of it i dont wanna hear no more
(i figure this will start something new haha)
Ryan
Chevy wins? Are you in Fantasy land still??
I like fantasy island better roc.
(guys chill there is no winner they are all winners)
Ryan
Don't know if this story has gone national yet or not. Investigative reporters at a Seattle TV station discovered that Ford is installing the recalled series Firestones as SPARES on their NEW Ranger pickups. The tires have the words "Temporary Use Only" stamped on them in very small letters that you could not even see in the dark or the rain. Ford defends the practice saying they are perfectly acceptable for use as spares. LOL!!
pardon the delay in response, just back from 2 weeks of vacation
kcram
Co-Host - Smart Shopper & FWI Conferences
edmunds.com Town Hall
> These vehicles are built to handle cargo,
> towing and/or off-roading.
Maybe so.
But Ford specifically MARKETS them as kiddie-haulers to soccer moms. Therein lies the CRIMINAL activity.
Less than 2% of the owners will ever leave a paved road, and Ford knows it! We aren't talking about dump trucks here, we're talking about vehicles which Ford specifically targets at young affluent parents who mostly don't have a clue about COG and other such technobabble. Ford is selling them "cool wheels" and should be fully liable for the fact that the Exploder is unsafe in the hands of that target market.
They have designed a kiddie hauler and no one buys it....its called a minivan.
Holding a company responsible for misuse of their product is stupid.
They scare me because they weave, cut in and out, slam on the brakes with no regard for anyone else, in a 4000-5000 lb vehicle.