Vibe Maintenance & Repair Concerns

capitano

OK. I thought you were stating that you needed monetary compensation for real damages that you had suffered and that somehow you (or your daughter) had suffered damage to your reputation from driving a stinky car.

I don't think your mileage point is as powerful as you think it is. With today's cars so much depends on that little computer that controls everything. They could check for error codes, reflash the firmware, and run tests without having to take the car on the road. Since the emissions system is all about electronic sensors and fuel mixtures it seems likely to me that this is what they did. They could have run the engine to see if they could reproduce the symptoms, without having to move the car.
Their records should detail what tasks they performed.

cttguy

True, but remember that one of their points is that how you drive the car is a factor. To quote from their bulletin;

     "Inform the customer that condtions such as extended idling, hard braking, aggressive acceleration and long wide open throttle maneuvers may intensify the odor"

Service Information, Document ID# 1356980, entitled "Info - Sulfur (Rotten Egg) odor from exhaust system #03-06-05-006-(07/17/2003)"

protegextwo

cttguy, I'm truly sorry about your problem. Sounds like you got a lemon. The sulfur smell must be leaking into the cabin by way of the combustion of gas/air or the emissions as a result of that combustion. However, I imagine GM/Pontiac has sold enough of these vehicles to establish that there is no basic flaw with the design or even a build quality issue. I doubt, if they would continue to build and sell an across the board flawed vehicle. Furthermore, Toyota would certainly have an interest in any problem pertaining to a widespread problem with sulfur emissions leaking in to the passenger cabin of a Corolla, Vibe or Matrix. Have you tried another dealer or even an independent repair shop? I'm 45 and I purchased a Vibe because it is the right size for my family. IMHO, the Vibe is a great vehicle for many age and demographic groups. I hope you can get your problem resolved to your satisfaction. I truly feel for you. Nonetheless, posting here has not really helped you?

Respectfully,
Larry

capitano

LOL. That rules out most driving. I should be the egg man by now. But I'm not.

Note that it states "intensify the odor." To me that indicates that they have no hope of fixing the odor problem, only minimizing it by changing gas and driving styles. If you got you got it. If you don't you don't.

I wonder if anyone has encountered the smell on a test drive.

Cabin smell. The corolla I was riding in had the smell when we stopped. For all I know it could have been stinking the whole way from Fort Dix to DC on I95. I didn't smell it until we came to a stop and our tail caught up to us. We could smell it in the cabin.
I think we had the outside air coming in. A/C on recirc might make it go away.

protegextwo

Two different dealerships, one in York, PA. and the other in Lancaster, PA. I tested a Matrix and Corolla at the Toyo dealer. I tested a AWD and the base Vibe at the Pontiac/GM dealer and smelled no sulfer inside or out, at anytime or place. You would think most people would pass on the chance to purchase a stinky car? Yet, the Corolla sells pretty dang good, lol!

-larry

cttguy

Larry, thank you for your kind words. I guess that the best thing is that this board has at least allowed me to vent some anger and also think out my case against Pontiac. I agree that this is not something that all Vibes have. However, what really troubles me is Pontiac's reaction to the problem. Basically, the reaction is "Oh, sorry you got a bad one, there's nothing we can do about it". I believe that this kind of attitude is the worst way to run any business and perhaps shows why so many auto makers don't make money. In constrast, my Audi dealer cannot do enough for the customer. Any problem is handled professionally and they truly do go out of their way to make the customer happy. But Pontiac has shown to me their true colors and I do intend to make them pay for it.

capitano

Good luck in your fight. I hope it somehow gets resolved to your satisfaction.

I have heard about people winning settlements from dealers because they stage protests outside the dealership. Usually those seem to be framed against the dealership and not the manufacturer. It could all be urban legend though.

diver99x

I just brought my 03 Matrix in for the two year service. I should have called for a price before I got up at 6AM, but I nearly dropped dead when they told me it was $460. I got the keys back and left.

I called another dealer who charges $199.99 for the the 2 year service. While I understand that there will be some price variation, this is WAY beyond acceptable. From what I can see in the book, all that is called for is changing the coolant, oil and air filters; a few lube points and general inspection. One hour for a mechanic at MOST.

This kind of stuff makes me want to go to Honda for my next vehicle. Though if I checked their board I'm liable to find a post similar to mine.

capitano

Oh, yeah. You have to get very specific about what you want done. I am going back to changing my own oil after my experience at the local toyota dealer. In Virginia, I could go the express lube and get the 7,500 mile service done as required. Oil and filter change, tire rotation. Basta. About $40 with synthetic oil.

Here in Miami, they don't do that. They have oil and filter change as one service and then tire rotation and balance as another. Together it's over $90. But they also try to sell an alignment and premature change of the air conditioning filter. I look in the book and it talks about that A/C filter at 20,000 miles. Service rep is like "well, if you wanna go by the book..." as he shrugs his shoulders. You know, that "oh, well. don't blame me" look.

In your example the one dealer has likely included its own "recommended" services in the price, whereas the second may be doing only what toyota specifies. Gotta get in the weeds and see exactly what they are doing and the costs.

Service has become a bigger profit center for dealers than new car sales. Pitching unneeded services is part of the game. I shudder to think about what they do to the average customer.

herzogtum71

I tend to agree with what ctguy said about duplicating the problem. How can a service department claim categorically that they were unable to duplicate the problem unless they actually drove the vehicle? Diagnostics could fail to identify a problem component, but couldn't prove that the problem doesn't exist.

capitano

But the official word is that extended idling is a contributing factor. They could have idled the car for a long period.

mcdawgg

DIVER99X

The 2 year, four year, 60,000 mile, 30,000 mile, etc. maintanance packages are dealer rip-offs. Just look in your manual to see what needs to be changed and ask for only those items to be done. For the Matrix/Corolla at two years or 30,000 miles, I would change the coolant, change the air filter, change cabin air filter, and change the oil and filter. If you had them do all this, I can't see paying more than $150 out the door, tops. Of course, it is REALLY easy to change the air filter and cabin air filters on Toyotas. It takes all of 5 minutes or less to do both. In fact, all these items are really easy on Toyotas. That's another reason, besides the reliability, that I like Toyota - very easy to work on. If you want to change your own oil and coolant, also both very easy, you could eliminate the dealer altogether! Use Toyota parts and your labor, and the total would be about $60 for the two year service.

nippononly

recycle...

rpgroppe

Speaking of coolant change, has anyone done this on their Matrix? I was wondering if you actually need to use a bleeder valve or if the system drains dry.

Thanks

surfcat2000

years ago when I was a nissan mechanic we had a problem with a fabric coating smell and a factory bulletin told us to put vanilla extract on a rag and put it under the seat. it worked but you gained 3 pounds

CapeCod

For the past 2 years I have driven my 2003 Vibe exclusively... Very rarely do I drive my wife's van or my son's Ford Contour. Due to a service issue I had to switch cars with my son for about a week. Unbelievable the road noise difference between a 1995 Contour and a 2003 Vibe!
The Contour sounds like a Cadillac while the Vibe roars like a jet engine. Is it the difference in the lower profile tires? Are the Continental Tires just plain noisy??? Is the cabin not well insulated? Now that I'm back to the Vibe the road noise really haunts me! Any suggestions???
I also noised a wind whistle...
Is the wind noise most likely from the sunroof? The channel molding at the top of the windshield? Maybe the wipers? Any suggestions???
Really sad that a 1995 Contour with 100,000 miles put the Vibe to shame!
By the way I've had to do 2 alignments in 15,000 miles because of tire wear. Is this a Vibe trait?
Crappy tires ? ContinentalTires were okay the first winter, but horrible this past winter... no traction, you feel like you are floating on the snow!

thel

Just turn up the radio and keep the RPM's below 4k if it really bothers you.

roscoe1

I just got my 04' XR a few weeks ago. It has the front and rear spoiler and the side skirts. I really didn't want or need those on the car, but that is all that was available for purchase. I have already had the front spoiler bottom out when pulling out of a parking lot. I was going really slow, so it didn't screw it up too bad, but scratched it up underneath where you can't see it. I live in the upper midwest and am very concerned that when the snow starts flying I am either going to rip these off or get stuck for lack of ground clearance. Anyone in the snow belt have any experiences to share. How did you Matrix survive the winter?

thel

I didn't venture out into much deep snow but I did fine in the sub-6 inch stuff.

breto1

Yeah, my Vibe has that smell too. It's a result of wet carpet. There's a plenum drain hose located below the IP on the firewall. The hose on my Vibe wasn't connected. When it rained all of the water would poor into the car. The hose is under the carpet on the passenger side (which makes it hard to notice the wet carpet). The hose is about where your left big toe would be if you were sitting in the passenger seat.

rbarrit

I too thought I had the bad smell talked about in this forum once in a while and could not understand it. I would typically smell it after backing my Vibe into the garage.

My Vibe is a 2003 GT used only in the summer so far, 13800 km, still smells new inside.

I found the source of my Vibe's smell when rotating the tires this spring. Turns out the transmission was leaking at the right half shaft. The small protection cover on the shaft was spinning the oil onto two heat shields on the exhaust. I was smelling cooked transmission oil.

The leak was actually active since new. At the end of the first season, I noticed that the power steering actuator assembly was coated with dirt because of oil, but no drips. Could not understand it because the power steering fluid was not dropping. The transmission was also very clean, no dust like on the steering actuator. After this second season of winter storage, there was a very small oil puddle when I lowered the car down (25% weight left on wheels when up).

Dealer confirmed the leak, and the seal required 4 to 10 days to be delivered - must have came from Japan.

rjr1

Hi all -- I've seen a number of references to paint problems on the Vibe, with actual flakes of paint peeling off in some cases. Is this only on the cladding with the monochrome option, or is it on the actual sheet metal as well?

Thanks,

RJR

maxx4me

rjr: it is simply a matter of poor paint application (very thin) at the NUMMI plant at a minimum. All Vibes have chipping and pitting on the hood and doors. You can go to genvibe.com for a complete list of horror stories on the paint issue. While monotone vibe owners have mentioned chipping on the painted cladding, cladding or not, all our Vibe's are looking like 10 year old cars after just 2 years in service.

rob52

WHAT IS THE PROPER METHOD FOR REMOVING THE BATTERY CABLES WITHOUT REMOVING CODES ETC.?

jimmcknight

- My brother-in-law bought an inexpensive battery-operated device at the auto parts store which plugs into the lighter socket and holds all codes and memory when you disconnect the battery. I think it was like $10 or so.

robfla

My Vibe is base model,bought new 1 year ago. 9000 miles.Paint chips all around.The engine noise is a joke.Idle sounds like a sewing machine.Thought I was getting a toyota engine when I bought this car.Does not have a quality sound.What will it sound like in a few years?Shifter has an occasional odd clunking sound. A/C takes awhile to feel cool, never really cold. Mileage is 36mpg Hwy,about 29 in town easy driving. No leaks yet and no smells inside. But drives well and like the progressive looks for the price. Considering a new mazda 3 wagon now. Should I keep this vibe or sell? Think this engine will hold up for years to come?

capitano

You'll take a beating on the trade. Mazda 3's are hot, but they are not problem-free. Check the boards here for the issues owners are having.

Can't comment on the base engine at idle since I have the XRS/GT engine.

My AC works great. My wife is bugging me to get hers serviced since it no longer cools as well as it once did.

maxx4me

robfla: there is an adjustment which is needed on many Vibes out there. It takes just minutes to do yourself. Here is a picture of the AC lever located to the left of the glove box, down near the passenger floor mat. The fact that your AC is not getting cold is a result of the white lever not being allowed to travel the whole way. A simple adjustment will solve your problem. As for the rest of your complaints, I seriously doubt you'll have problems with this Corolla engine. It has been around since the 90's after all. Yes, the paint job is a black eye for the NUMMI plant, but the rest should be solid. Good luck

In order to do the AC adjustment you'll need to first remove the cable from the clip and the cable connection to the door (white piece). Then set the temperature knob to full cold and rotate the door fully clockwise (looking at it from the passenger side). Reinstall the cable onto the door and into the clip making sure that when the temperature is set to full cold the door also moves completely clockwise. In the picture, you can see how far the white lever should travel when it is as far as it can go. Us the picture as a guide to determine if your lever is travelling far enough when your AC is dialed to the coldest position on your dashboard.

http://forums.genvibe.com/zerofile/932/VibeDuctCable.jpg

datsunguy

Just took my '03 Matrix into the dealer after this darn thing falling open all the time. He said they just came out with a TSB and they know how to repair it so it won't happen again. Sounds like they have seen quite a few with this problem...

thel

I had that problem in my 04 XRS. They replaced the hinge and I haven't had a problem since.

montanafan

I have noticed on 2005 Vibes (haven't caught a Matrix) that the latch for that compartment has been changed. Perhaps the new door/latch would fit the 2003/2004s and work a little better?

melfitz

I have the rotten egg smell also. I suggest that you, like me, call the bbb and start a file on your car. I have had the smell since the 2nd week after I bought the car. They said it would go away after 10,000 miles but it didnt. I also have had problems w/rear seats not locking properly, hatch latch sticking, slight rusty at the top corners of my doors under the door seal, my transmission shifting into low going down hills or declines, my air conditioning smelling musty and damp, my air conditioning is cool but not cold, my plastic covers on my rear of the front seats keep falling off, my steering column locks up periodically, and I have had to change my air filter 3 times in 34,000miles and now that want me to change my air conditioning filter for another $45 dollars. So far my lemon law suit is still looking for me. Anyone else having problems? let me know.

melissa

melfitz

seriously. If you do a suit I will sign up. I have 2 cases going on now with the bbb since 2 months after I purchased the car in Dec. 2002. I have the smell, which they said was the gas I used, or would go away after 10,000 miles which it did not. I have the locking steering column thing, the musty air contiditioning smell which they say is the filter although it started after only 6 mo of ownership, the locks not engaging on rear seats, the down shifting of my automatic into low on declines / hills, and many more from my list. Have you filed with the Better Business Bureau yet? If not do so asap so its on file. my email is mfit3426@aol.com

melfitz

Seriously count me in on the class action law suit. I have a list of problems and the smell is just one of them. I got the run around also. I tried several different gas stations, several different gas octanes, different locations to get gas. Nothing helped. I was told it could be a rotten catalytic converter but that is not true also. GM does know the problems excists but they have no fix. I filed with the BBB for lemon law and for problems with GM. I even wrote a letter, on the suggestion of the BBB to GM and got no response so hopefully we will go to arbitration soon. file quickly if there are enough complaints GM will have to fix the problem. email me at Mfit3426@aol.com

melfitz

hey cttguy. WAKE UP!!!!!!! It is not the gas that makes the smell. It is something within the catalytic converter. I have gone to 3 dealerships, contacted GM, tried the different gas station thing, the different octanes things, the different locations of gas stations thing, and the try the premium or highest octane thing. Nothing works. I repeat it is not the gas. It is the foreign car air pollution control thing. At least thats one of the excuses I have been given. But, believe me its not the gas. Are you a mechanic by chance? Because all mechanics say that.

melfitz

This is where you are wrong Capitano. There are more than a few of us out there that have reported this and several other problems. I too, am going after GM with a lemon law suit throught he BBB. GM says they have no fix for my problems and they just say, "OH sorry for your inconvenience," as they take my money and I drive around in a piece of doggy doo doo. I am sick of everyone just saying live with it. I do not want to live with it. I paid for this car and deserve to have a car that run correctly and of which I am not embarrassed to have my boss ride with me in. I am embarrassed when the smell shows up when I am with my boss, family, friends, or suppliers. This is not just a minor issue.

melfitz

" "Inform the customer that condtions such as extended idling, hard braking, aggressive acceleration and long wide open throttle maneuvers may intensify the odor"

Hey that is whenever we drive our cars. Funny huh. So basically when ever we drive our car we should just expect to smell the fart smell and learn to enjoy it. RIGHT? Well not this girlie girl. I filed a suit and arbitration is coming up. Wish me luck.

nippononly

you are obviously a SERIOUSLY unhappy person as regards your car - I feel for you. I saw the long list of complaints you have regarding your car in the Vibe thread, and I would have to agree with posters there that a couple of them (steering wheel lock, downshift under moderate to hard braking, some condensation coming from the exhaust especially when cold) are normal characteristics of operating this vehicle.

I had an early-model Matrix which I sold earlier this year, and except for some rattles and the early-on twilight sensor TSB, I had no problems with it, certainly none of the ones you listed. While many of the parts suppliers for the Matrix and Vibe are different, I don't think much can be attributed to different factories as far as quality differences between them. The only one thatmight be attributable to different factories is the rusting door panel issue, which is probably because of the difference between the two in painting.

Having said that, both Vibe and Matrix carry rust-through warranties from their manufacturers. Perhaps you could pursue that with dealers?

Lastly, we are lucky to have already had low-sulfur gas in California, so that Vibes and 'Trixes here do not have the sulfur problem, but it is related to the gas, believe me, not the specific car. Many cars are having or have had this problem outside California. Many brands, especially imports, are engineering their cars now to use the low-sulfur gas that the rest of the world and California has. If it is any consolation, the rest of the U.S. will have it within a couple of years, and a few places already do.

You should be able to enjoy a new car without feeling it is fatally flawed, that is for sure, so again I am sorry to hear of your woes. :-(

KCRam

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cttguy

Melfitz,

I had my hearing with the BBB a couple of months ago and my complaint was denied. On a conference call with a representative of GM the arbitrator in Chicago acted throughout the meeting in a very sympathetic manner. GM does acknowledge the "condition" (they won't call it a problem) but puts the blame on the gas. On the test drive with the arbitrator, I couldn't duplicate the condition within the ten minutes I was aloted. In the end, the complaint was dismissed by the BBB.

Bottom line, in my opinion, the BBB is just a shill for all of the companies that contribute to them (GM is a major contributor). Rather than initiate a costly law suit I have decided to wait until the Vibe is 2 years old and then dump it.

Don't expect any help from the BBB. The're worthless.

Oh, and to the Californians that keep talking about their low sulfur gas, we have the same thing in Illinois from April to October, a special blend to reduce summer emissions, and the result is the same.

cttguy

kevo

Well Cttguy, in a previous post you stated you wanted to dissuade a few buyers from purchasing the Vibe. I have been a long time GM buyer, and am currently very dissapointed in all GM cars. I was hoping the Vibe would be a better car. I was not reeealy impressed with the Vibe, it's a nice car, but now after hearing your situation and those of so many others I will not be purchasing a Vibe. Even with a $3000 rebate from the GM card, it just won't be worth it. Thanks for sharing your story. I hope somebody from GM/Pontiac/Toyota looks at this forum.

thel

I think the new C6 looks groovy.

focuserror

C6 would not look groovy if its paint peeled off in chunks a couple months after you bought it.

C6 would not smell groovy if it belched rotten egg odor into the cabin every time your turned on the engine.

kevo

I do not think all GM cars are "bad" either. My gripe is that none of them are all that great. I have been looking at a wide range of cars, trucks, and suv's, and a rather wide price range as well. I also have the burden/advantage to rent 6 vehicles a month on average. The quality of GM cars, even ones that may only have 100 miles on it are sub-par in comparison with imports and even Daimler/Chrysler. I know this is not the forum for it, but I'll explain my previous comment. For example, the Cadillac CTS--a great performer, but the looks are just too polarizing for me and the interior is hard plastic. Buicks are real comfy, but lots of wind noise and too pricey for what they are. The Vibe, a practical and peppy car with tons of space, but peeling paint is a very real issue to me. For me, it looks like my money will go to Audi/VW. I have been chipping away at my GM card for 6 years and have $3000 toward any GM product, and I don't need another Silverado (99 LS extended cab model and I love it.) Simply put, if Honda can make a $13,000 Civic feel and sound solid, why can't GM do it in a more (much more) expensive car? (CTS) Thanks for listening.

Kevin

thel

Someone pass these guys a beer or something...they need to relax.

I'm no GM fan myself, but just b/c they aren't my kind of car doesn't mean I should be going around saying they are no good at all.

BTW, my Matrix XRS beats my Civic EX (both 04's) hands down in terms of comfort, fit and finish and refinement. It is noisier, but I'll take the power anytime.

maverick04

just more publicized. This does not solve the problem, but it may offer an explanation.
'04 XR Matrix.
I owned a '94 Buick Century with the exact same problem - in my case the smell coincided with "summer" gas, barometric pressure and humidity.
FYI: While it is true that the rest of the country will eventually be forced to buy the low sulfur gas year round - ratios will vary from state to state, and in some cases, from county to county with CA having the most potent low sulfur gas. A recent city meeting in Vegas acknowledged this ratio difference between CA and NV and what is allowed from the refinery per state. Vegas will have low sulfur gas, but not as low as the CA gas mixture.

nippononly

federal law will limit how much sulfur gas can contain, to a level comparable to that which California already has.

snowman

Folks, I wanted to give you a heads up that Chevy Equinox has the same smell and GM thinks this is related to coolant. If you lurke Equinox forum, you may get more info and help your repair process...
Sorry to hear all these problems and good luck...

northernvibe

I purchased a 2004 AWD satellite silver Vibe way up here in Corner Brook, Newfoundland, Canada in May of this year...let's just say it was no where near the $15,000 USD mark that I've been reading here...up here it does cost more than the Matrix but we found the Vibe looks better and sounds a lot better than the Toyota model.

I am relatively happy with its performance - the pep in the passing lane could be more powerful but with the rear seats folded, it holds lots of cargo. We bought a grey rubber-backed mat from Wal-mart to keep things in the back from sliding around...

To get to my point, we traded a Jeep Grand Cherokee in on it only because of the price of gas being so high and the Jeep's efficiency so low - right now, gas here is 98 cents a litre CDN (nearly $4/gallon CDN!!). Anyway, the AWD Vibe is supposed to get 31/41 mpg city/highway...I'm only getting about 16-18 mpg...anyone else finding this?? I've reached the 10,000 km break-in period that my dealer says it takes before the efficiency level is reached and have had two oil changes done at the dealership. Actually, it's getting worse mpg now than when I first bought it....

I plan to talk to the mechanics again really soon...I could've kept my Jeep if I wanted that mpg number!!!

capitano

31/41? That sounds too high. ....

I checked and it's actually rated 26/31 for the 2005 model. Still, your mileage is clearly too low.

Has your dealer checked the ECU? Off the top of my head it sounds like you're running too rich and wasting fuel.