Just last week I found some salt cod at the local supermarket and tried to replicate the fish & brewis experience we had in Newfoundland in 2002...
I believe 26 city and 31 highway were also the EPA ratings for our 2003 AWD Matrix. Actual mileage over the first 20,000 miles has been about 26.8 mpg. Less highway than in town.
Best tankful on the highway has been 32.4 mpg, and we have exceeded 31 mpg on three other tanks. but highway mileage often is 28 or 29 mpg. Lowest tankful has been 21.8 mpg, mostly city driving in snow and sleet. Mostly I seem to get 23-25 mpg while driving strictly in town.
I would agree with capitano that something is amiss and you should have it checked out.
My 2005 Vibe 5-speed is not getting anywhere near the mileage the sticker and the dealer (city 29/highway 36) said it would. I just broke 2000 miles yesterday and have been averaging just under 30 mpg (95% highway driving with little traffic). Now, Consumer Reports tested an automatic and got an average of 34mpg on their 150 mile test drive. It's my understanding that standard transmission is supposed to get better gas mileage then automatic which is one reason why I bought the Vibe. While I like paying only $20 to fill the tank, I am still filling it just as often as I filled my '02 Dakota. Anyone else finding that as the car breaks in, the mpg gets better? Also, I've had my car just under a month and the paint on a back door is starting to chip off!!! Unreal! Is this still happening for other 2005 owners?
If you do a lot of stop and go driving, or drive in climates lower or higher than average temp. you are not going to reach EPA estimates. Probably about 1 in 4 people never get EPA mileage.
I have not noticed much difference over time in the Matrix's gas mileage. After 8,000 miles the overall mileage was 26.3 mpg. After 15,000 miles it was 26.7 mpg. And now after 20,000 miles it is 26.8 mpg.
Same experience with past cars. For example, my 1994 Corolla wagon averaged 35.1 mpg over the first 19,000 miles. I traded it at 111,000 miles, and averaged 34.9 mpg over the 10-year period I had the car. That was well above the EPA estimates.
I think the EPA tests are still done indoors (no wind resistance) with the highway test at 55 miles per hour. With the Matrix I have noticed that gas mileage is a couple miles per gallon better when I have driven primarily on 2-lane highways at 50 to 55 mph than on the interstate at 65-75 mph.
that sounded funny: "I think the EPA tests are still done indoors (no wind resistance) with the highway test at 55 miles per hour.". So there is a natural vacuum indoors? LOL! But I get what you meant though.
nichul37: you were getting 30 mpg in daily driving in a Dakota? Now THAT is amazing. Much better than I would expect. Kudos to Dodge.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wish 30mpg in my Dakota!! No, about 19mpg in the Dakota, but it had a 22 gallon tank (light on at 17-18 gallons) and I could go about 320 miles before the light came on. I am barely getting to 300 miles when the light comes on in the Vibe. I live in CT and I've had the car 3 weeks, so the weather isn't really a factor for me yet. I am not a crazy driver and usually use the cruise control at 65mph and drive all highways so not too much stopping and starting.
They must do the optimal fuel efficiency tests at 25 degrees Celsius, driving 80km/hr (45-50 miles??) on perfect pavement with little traffic and starts/stops - they should do one somewhere in the real world!!!
I think I found the discrepancy. That canadian site shows mpIg not mpg. An Imperial Gallon is 1.2 US gallons. So those consumption numbers are actually the same, just expressed in different units. Why does GM canada use that rating when gas is sold by the liter up in Canada? Or does it vary from province to province? That seems unlikely; the four provinces I've been in all sold gas by the liter.
Of course missing the EPA by 3 mpg is a better situation in a car rated at 35 and actually getting 32 than missing the EPA in a car rated at 18 and actually getting 15. You have to keep in mind what you started with.
Another odd thing is that the more fuel efficient your engine is, the greater the MPG loss with your A/C on, as the smaller engine tends not to have as much spare power to drive accessories.
When I first was in Canada in 1975 they sold gas by the imperial gallon. More recently I have been in the 6 eastern-most provinces, and all gas has been sold in liters. Also, all distances are measured in kilometers. So why doesn't the Canadian site express ratings in "liters per 100 kilometers"?
Nipon,isn't the EPA test done on a conveyor belt indoors rather than on an actual road?
The Canadian site does express fuel efficiency in l/100km right after the MPIG figure. All the europeans use the l/100km, but I've never liked that measure. I always do the calculation to see how many kms I can go on a liter. Makes more sense to me that way.
Yes, all gas is sold by the litre in Canada but the Metric system hasn't caught on as the Government intended!!! Ask anyone how much they weigh - pounds...cpacity-gallons, length-feet & inches and so on...km/hr speed limit is probably the only thing that really stuck out of the whole system!
So, after the fuel efficiency test today, it seems my Vibe is apparently doing 4.38 L/100km or 53.7 mpg (American)combined highway/city!!!! How much it drops off with speed is amazing...we normally drive 110 km/hr (70 miles/hr)highway and only get 21 mpg but at 80 km/hr, it does 53 mpg?!?!? Since it was SO GOOD, the mechanic didn't check anything mechanical and seemed to blame it on the temperature, hills, environment, and so on - not the car...funny thing, we drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee the same way and got 15-17 mpg highway at 110 km????
Probably won't sacrifice the power of a Jeep for the measly mpg we save with the Vibe in a future purchase....unless we see significant savings in the next few years...
I've seen european specs that show consumption at 90kmh and 120kmh. The drop off can be significant. Still, something seems funky about your numbers. They didn't check the ECU at all?
one other thing that may not be reflected on GM's website: the AWD gets poorer mileage than the other versions. On the Toyota, the AWD gets only 26/31 (U.S.). Compare that to 28/34 for the FWD and 29/36 for the FWD manual. Plus the AWD only has that 12 gallon tank - very small, limiting range.
If you are in an area where you have to run the A/C a lot (very humid, lots of defrost), low 20s in regular driving might be the best you could expect.
herzog: yeah, the EPA testing is done indoors on a conveyor belt. You were absolutely right from the very beginning, just the way you expressed the "no air resistance" thing made me laugh. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also remember this about the fuel economy ratings (at least the US EPA numbers) they are not for comparison to what you get with the car, they are for comparison between cars.
The EPA tests are done indoors on a dynamometer. They can't be done outside on a track because the weather must be consistent in order to eliminate humidity and air pressure as variables. In the lab, the air is controlled to a specific constant so that all vehicles get the same temperature, humidity, and pressure of atmosphere into the engine.
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The EPA tests are indeed done indoors on the dyno. They are also done with an actual human being 'driving' the car, according to a proscribed profile.
The results of these tests are published, but not on the sticker... the stuff that goes on the window sticker of new cars is the measured values times an arbitrary factor... I think it's 1.1 (i.e. 10% more than measured).
This is actually pretty clever because the 'corrected' values are quite useful... I *usually* get the 'hwy' mileage on my cars, especially if I keep my foot out of it... and I'm usually 10% short of the city mileage. But I live in MI, and the tests are done at some balmy temperature like 65 F... don't quote me on the exact figure though.
What does all that mean in the real world? It means that if you've got a Vibe, even an AWD auto, and get LESS than 20 miles per U.S. gallon, even in town, with the temperature above freezing, something is wrong with the car.
In Jan in MI, with my 2.5 mile commute, I got 13 mpg in a Sienna (EPA: 19 city). On the freeway, we get 24-25 mpg in steady driving (EPA: 25). My wife gets ~ 20 mpg in 'mixed' driving in the summer. My conclusion is this: EPA mileage values are fairly reasonable. If you're driving super-short distances in freezing weather, all bets are off. In normal driving, you need to get within 15% of the EPA values, or something's amiss.
I hope that at least all 4 wheels are up on the belt or it will be extremely unrealistic since the energy required to accelerate the entire weight of the vehicle wouldn't be accounted for. As it is, it already doesn't take into account aerodynamics.
The achieved mileage numbers in the lab are reduced for publication. The city mileage is reduced 10%, the highway figure is dropped 22%. So if the lab tests a car and gets 30mpg on the city cycle and 42 on the highway:
30 x 0.90 = 27 published city mpg 42 x 0.78 = (32.76) 33 published highway mpg
As far as not taking aerodynamics into consideration, that is true, Cd numbers don't really come into play. But here's why: the fuel economy numbers are actually recorded as a "byproduct" - the point of the test is really measuring emissions under various driving conditions, and the EPA realized they could also calculate fuel usage during these tests. As was mentioned, they are intended solely for comparison vehicle to vehicle. They are not intended to reflect real-world measurements.
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kc, thanks for straightening this out.... when I wrote "factor of 1.1", I was thinking of consumption, not "miles per gallon". I grew up on "liters per 100 km".
As far as my personal experience goes, I've always been fairly close to the EPA numbers. I think they do have real-world relevance.
BTW, when fleet consumption numbers are discussed in politics, they always talk about the "combined, unadjusted" figures. so when they say 25 mpg, that's more like 22 mpg once the fudge factors have been applied.
So, after the fuel efficiency test late last week, it seems my Vibe is apparently doing 4.38 L/100km or 53.7 mpg (American)combined highway/city!!!! Excellent, hey?? (The mechanic took it for a highway drive at 80 km/hr for 50kms and did the math to find this number.)
How much it drops off with speed is amazing...we normally drive 110 km/hr (70 miles/hr)highway and only get 18-21 mpg but at 80 km/hr, it does 53 mpg?!?!? Since it was SO GOOD, the mechanic didn't check anything mechanical and seemed to blame it on the temperature, hills, environment, and so on - not the car...funny thing, we drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee the same way and got 15-17 mpg highway at 110 km????
Probably won't sacrifice the power of a Jeep for the measly mpg we save with the Vibe in a future purchase....unless we see significant savings in the next few years...most of my driving is city, lots of start/stop and hills so I guess that's it - definately not impressed...and yes, we noted the poorer numbers for the AWD but we are in Western Newfoundland where last year we got 8 feet of the white stuff....none yet, thank goodness!
I would put a doubt on your mpg result, that's is even better than hybrid car like civic hybrid... just need a few more attempt to ensure that is right!
I agree with carzzz. With the 4WD Matrix we got between 27 and 30 mpg (U.S.)in December at about 70 mph crossing Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Your terrain on the main highway in Western Newfoundland isn't any hillier than that, and your temperatures in the last month or two wouldn't be much colder than what we had on that trip.
It's a long shot, and it's also something the mechanic who tested your Vibe should have mentioned. But are you sure the "overdrive off" button on the shifter is not depressed? Or if the button isn't depressed, is the mechanic sure the overdrive gear (4th gear) is kicking in properly?
Wondering if anyone has had problems with the brake/accelerator being so close together. At least they seem close to me coming from a Camry to the 2005 Matrix XR. Or has anyone had problems with the accelerator sticking?
I believe there may not be anything to stick on the 2005 Matrix. I have read that the Vibe has eliminated the accelerator cable system and gone to a throttle by wire type system. I would think that large of a change would have to be made on both cars. So I assume the 2005 Matrix is the same.
I’m dyin’ here with low MPG. ‘04Matrix XR auto FWD (17”LPT) 3600 on odometer getting 18-20MPG in town and 26-28 Frwy.(based on stats from 15 fill-ups since new purchase in January). I don’t use the car everyday and do mostly in-town driving/flat terrain. I’ve severed my relationship with the original dealership since the service manager is always backed up by customer service. Service finds 20MPG “acceptable” if HAL,“the computer”, says there are no errors reported. They also blame possibly“the way I drive” and have twice questioned my method for arriving at the MPG. Insults to injury..such appalling customer disservice. I’m a senior female who goes with the flow..no street racing, peeling out, or popping wheelies and I can set “A” tripmeter to zero after a fillup while dividing the # of miles driven BY the # of gallons used just to be clear..
3000mi maintenance was completed at a more customer–friendly dealership..no errors found . After sending a letter to corporate and having the door shut in my face once again, I inadvertently contacted a regional customer service manager for Toyota. He was to arrange for a meet with a Factory Tech Specialist in Sept. I’m still waiting for the appointment date. The once friendly and helpful regional CS mgr has not returned any of my weekly voice mails.
California has “LemonLaw” which Toyota urged me to postpone until they have a chance to arbitrate. I’m not willing to postpone much longer. Love the car until I see the Toyota “mileage bragging” TV ads and question Matrix owners in parking lots about MPG . I left Honda (88Accord hatchback) looking for a wagon and was assured that Toyota products were outstanding with customer service to match. Sadly , not my experience thus far.
Does anyone have suggestions re: improving MPG and/or contacting /dealing with the corporate level tech staff at Toyota? Has anyone exercised their rights under the LemomLaw regarding a problem like this? If you would care to share, I’d be most grateful..
just came back from trip got 32 mpg running at 70 to 75 mph. AWD auto very hilly twisty road temp minus 11 c. with 3 adults + luggage. most times get in 35+mpg hwy and close to 30 around town
Two questions: (1) Midnite -- What does "17" LPT" stand for? (2) Sandhog2 -- Is your calculation imperial gallons?
Like sandhog2, we also have the 4WD. Ours is an '03. I just calculated the overall MPG for the first 20,000 miles and came up with 26.7 mpg (US). That's more in-town than highway.
FWD should do better than 4WD. Any actual mileage figures from FWD owners?
Vibe 5sp FWD 2004. 9,800 miles, one year old. I get 27 mpg in town, 29 doing 70-75 on the freeway with an 18-foot canoe on top, and better without. My driving style is, uh, "spirited", and my commute is miles. When the Mrs. drives it, which is an easy city/2-lane hiway mix, it's 30 or 31 mpg.
midnite: something is wrong with your car. Do the following experiment: Go to a convenient gas station, pick a pump and remember it. Fill the car up almost to the end, then the rest on the slowest setting. Go and drive 50 miles at least, preferably steady freeway driving. Go back to the same gas station, park in the exact same spot, put the hose in exactly the same way, and fill up. You SHOULD be seeing >30 mpg. If there is something wrong with your car as described, you will see ~20 mpg. If that is the case, go to the dealership and propose to repeat the experiment with one of their people in the car... it'll take 90 minutes, but it's otherwise cheap. Maybe then they'll listen to you.
The only thing I could see is a bad O2 sensor in front of the catalytic converter... continuously running too rich... which isn't doing that cat any favors, btw... it should get blazingly hot; maybe they could measure the cat temperature under load... changing the sensor would be a cheap thing to do, <$200 cost to them...
When the Matrix first came out a few of us complained in this forum about the lack of breakaway exterior mirrors. Well, my daughter just destroyed the passenger side mirror while exiting our garage. Has anyone replaced a mirror? If so, how much will it cost for a new one? They'll need to fix a small dent in the metal fender piece and buff up some scratches on the lower plastic. I'm thinking it won't be cheap.
my friend knocked mine askew too. At the dealer it was $225 just for the mirror (money came out of my friend's pocket, not mine!).
The running average for the entire time I had my Matrix XR auto FWD was 32.8 mpg (rounded to the tenth). I tend NOT to bury the gas pedal as a habit, and that was mixed driving with a couple of 1000-mile highway trips mixed in there. In the hilly country of the San Francisco coastal suburbs, which pretty much never freeze but where you run the A/C all summer and the wipers all winter, pretty much. Mine was an '03, one of the early ones.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
steine13...many thx for the suggestion..I've tried a modified experiment in the past and my MPG results were consistent with the others. I actually have every tankful recorded from day one..receipts, tripmeter reading, type of driving, etc. Neither dealership has driven the car so I'm betting the cat cvtr temp hasn't been considered.They seem to rely on computer readings to guide them and "no errors here". P.S. I am getting 26/27 mpg on a freeway (50+ mile trip)filling up beginning & end at the same Chevron station (used 89 octane but dealer told me 87 is better) The majority of my driving is in town and that's 18-20mpg depending on a/c usage. I'll get back to you.
'04 Matrix auto FWD (with ABS) At 1800 miles (April) I had an experience in a parking stall at work with the gear shifter(auto) being uncontrollable & ineffective. Couldn't get into "park" and in "neutral" the car lurched frwd with my foot off the brake. I reached down to make sure nothing was pressuring the accelerator. After a lot of pushing, pulling and sweating, the gear shifter finally snapped into "park" and I was able to shut off the ignition. Later drove home with no problem. Next day I had the car washed and while driving out of the lot, I noticed each time I used the brake it sounded like metal scraping cement(4times at least)Once on the street as I approached the first red lite the brakes wouldn't grab and I almost went into the intersection. Went slowly to the dealership and left the car. Next day I was told "computer found NO problem". For the next few weeks,I drove this car in the slow lane with every nerve in my body on alert. Fortunately, seven months later, no repeated incidents..Hmmmm...nothing found to fix?
When new - was getting 27 to 29 mpg. Now at 32,000 miles, getting about 30/31 mpg.
Typical tankful: I drive mostly highway (75%), 10% of time in traffic, other times - going 75 to 85mph, hitting 95mph at times, until I can see the speedometer.
In NJ, seems the summer months are better than winter - probably due to gas mixture.
No problems except for: 1) opening storage under shifter and 2) those stupid DRL on/off/on/off in daylight.
Storage compartment under the shifter is a bother. (a service writer pointed this out):Try removing the drawer and reaching into the space where you'll feel a thin metal bracket. Sometimes if you maneuver it around and stick the drawer back in, it'll stay closed for a few days. Changing drawers didn't help..the culprit is probably the design of a 25cent piece of sheet aluminum mounted inside the gearshifter compartment. Toyota must be aware.
Total damage is about $1,500.00. Mostly labor of course. Interesting that the mirror itself is just $250.00.
Luzer, the Matrix had a fix for the DRL problem. They replaced the sensor with one more suitable for the location on the dash. At that time people commented that there was no fix as yet for the Vibe. Does anyone know if they ever came out with one? We bought our Matrix in late August 2003 and it reportedly was among the last built with the original problem sensor.
"We bought our Matrix in late August 2003 and it reportedly was among the last built with the original problem sensor."
Don't you mean August 2002? That was then Toyota issued the TSB and switched to the new twilight sensor. They switched out mine right about then.
I don't think Pontiac works the same way, and hence there was no update for people with earlier Vibes. But I am SURE it could not be that expensive to walk down to the local Toyota dealer and have them install one of the newer sensors in a Vibe. I remember how much that issue irritated me on my Matrix, and I would have paid to fix it if I had had to.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The original sensor was extremely annoying to me, but I am amazed that many people didn't notice that there was a problem at all.
Nippon, I verified that you could not put a Vibe roof rack on a Matrix. Is it possible that the Matrix sensor is different from the Vibe sensor?
I remember that the service manager told me that, according to the TBS, switching the sensor would not solve the problem I was describing. But of course it did!
I dont know if this is related to his fight but when i first brought in my '03 matrix to the dealer they gave me the gas story. I brought it in just this past saturday and now they say there is a catalytic converter to solve this problem. I will get it this week and if i notice any solution i will let you guys know.
Two weeks ago, the Pontiac Serv Manager was letting me know of a possible pending software fix to address the sulphur smell - alluding to gas/air mix ratio - which doesn't really make sense - does it?
Now since my car is at 35,000 miles, I asked if they would charge me if the TSB came out with a SW fix - he stated that they are allowed some goodwill - depending on the fix. If there is a recall for the cat converter, then it's covered for 80,000 miles per fed gov't. I am not sure if they just go the TSB route with a cat converter....
Trying to decide between the 5-Speed "Basic" 2005 Vibe and the Sporty 6-Speed "High-Performance" model which states you MUST use ONLY PREMIUM HIGH OCTANE Fuel. Anyone tried using the Regular Unleaded over an extended time? Any negative results? Feedback ASAP is greatly appreciated!
I go to sometimes is one of those Toyota dealers that rents out Toyota cars, and for the longest time they had a pair of Matrix XRS's (same as Vibe GT). They finally got rid of them because some kid totalled one of them and they became too expensive to insure.
But I rented them a couple of times and the service people always told me just to put regular in it, which I did, and which everyone else presumably did. At 20K miles that car was going strong - no sign of pinging, knocking, or anything other thing, despite the fact no-one was putting the recommended premium unleaded in it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've got a 2005 Vibe and have had intermitten problems with starting. It happens after the car warms up and then sits for 30-45 mins. It just turns over fo a very long time before firing. It seems like there is no spark or no fuel. Has anybody else experienced this?
My wife's 2005 Matrix suffers from exactly the starting symptoms you describe. Starts quickly and easily when cold or immediately after warm shut down, but let it sit for 30 minutes and it sometimes has to crank considerably longer. The car usually sputters a bit when it finally starts after the long crank, so I believe it is injecting fuel during all those cranks and points more toward a spark issue. I have not gotten it in for a check up because I hate to deal with service departments on intermittent issues, but I will take a copy of your post when I go.
High octane is only needed if you run very hot and hard. I run a Mitsubishi 3000 on reg most of the time with out problems and only fill with high octane when I push things. 135,000 miles no problems
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I believe 26 city and 31 highway were also the EPA ratings for our 2003 AWD Matrix. Actual mileage over the first 20,000 miles has been about 26.8 mpg. Less highway than in town.
Best tankful on the highway has been 32.4 mpg, and we have exceeded 31 mpg on three other tanks. but highway mileage often is 28 or 29 mpg. Lowest tankful has been 21.8 mpg, mostly city driving in snow and sleet. Mostly I seem to get 23-25 mpg while driving strictly in town.
I would agree with capitano that something is amiss and you should have it checked out.
Anyone else finding that as the car breaks in, the mpg gets better?
Also, I've had my car just under a month and the paint on a back door is starting to chip off!!! Unreal! Is this still happening for other 2005 owners?
Same experience with past cars. For example, my 1994 Corolla wagon averaged 35.1 mpg over the first 19,000 miles. I traded it at 111,000 miles, and averaged 34.9 mpg over the 10-year period I had the car. That was well above the EPA estimates.
I think the EPA tests are still done indoors (no wind resistance) with the highway test at 55 miles per hour. With the Matrix I have noticed that gas mileage is a couple miles per gallon better when I have driven primarily on 2-lane highways at 50 to 55 mph than on the interstate at 65-75 mph.
nichul37: you were getting 30 mpg in daily driving in a Dakota? Now THAT is amazing. Much better than I would expect. Kudos to Dodge.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You said: "31/41? That sounds too high..."
Here's the Canadian GM site:
http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/2005/pontiac/vibe/vibe_o- pti.html
....Maybe Canadian specs are different than American???
For Pontiac Vibe (doesn't specify year), GM's website clearly states:
"MPG (city/hwy/combined) automatic: 34/45/39 manual: 36/48/40 AWD: 31/41/35"
The dealer is going to do an efficiency test in the morning...got 21 MPG highway today...still not happy...
I've seen "Speed chips" on E-Bay to boost HP...any one use one yet??
Another odd thing is that the more fuel efficient your engine is, the greater the MPG loss with your A/C on, as the smaller engine tends not to have as much spare power to drive accessories.
Nipon,isn't the EPA test done on a conveyor belt indoors rather than on an actual road?
So, after the fuel efficiency test today, it seems my Vibe is apparently doing 4.38 L/100km or 53.7 mpg (American)combined highway/city!!!! How much it drops off with speed is amazing...we normally drive 110 km/hr (70 miles/hr)highway and only get 21 mpg but at 80 km/hr, it does 53 mpg?!?!? Since it was SO GOOD, the mechanic didn't check anything mechanical and seemed to blame it on the temperature, hills, environment, and so on - not the car...funny thing, we drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee the same way and got 15-17 mpg highway at 110 km????
Probably won't sacrifice the power of a Jeep for the measly mpg we save with the Vibe in a future purchase....unless we see significant savings in the next few years...
If you are in an area where you have to run the A/C a lot (very humid, lots of defrost), low 20s in regular driving might be the best you could expect.
herzog: yeah, the EPA testing is done indoors on a conveyor belt. You were absolutely right from the very beginning, just the way you expressed the "no air resistance" thing made me laugh. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
kcram
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The results of these tests are published, but not on the sticker... the stuff that goes on the window sticker of new cars is the measured values times an arbitrary factor... I think it's 1.1 (i.e. 10% more than measured).
This is actually pretty clever because the 'corrected' values are quite useful... I *usually* get the 'hwy' mileage on my cars, especially if I keep my foot out of it... and I'm usually 10% short of the city mileage. But I live in MI, and the tests are done at some balmy temperature like 65 F... don't quote me on the exact figure though.
What does all that mean in the real world? It means that if you've got a Vibe, even an AWD auto, and get LESS than 20 miles per U.S. gallon, even in town, with the temperature above freezing, something is wrong with the car.
In Jan in MI, with my 2.5 mile commute, I got 13 mpg in a Sienna (EPA: 19 city). On the freeway, we get 24-25 mpg in steady driving (EPA: 25). My wife gets ~ 20 mpg in 'mixed' driving in the summer. My conclusion is this: EPA mileage values are fairly reasonable. If you're driving super-short distances in freezing weather, all bets are off. In normal driving, you need to get within 15% of the EPA values, or something's amiss.
-Mathias
As it is, it already doesn't take into account aerodynamics.
30 x 0.90 = 27 published city mpg
42 x 0.78 = (32.76) 33 published highway mpg
As far as not taking aerodynamics into consideration, that is true, Cd numbers don't really come into play. But here's why: the fuel economy numbers are actually recorded as a "byproduct" - the point of the test is really measuring emissions under various driving conditions, and the EPA realized they could also calculate fuel usage during these tests. As was mentioned, they are intended solely for comparison vehicle to vehicle. They are not intended to reflect real-world measurements.
kcram
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As far as my personal experience goes, I've always been fairly close to the EPA numbers. I think they do have real-world relevance.
BTW, when fleet consumption numbers are discussed in politics, they always talk about the "combined, unadjusted" figures. so when they say 25 mpg, that's more like 22 mpg once the fudge factors have been applied.
-Mathias
How much it drops off with speed is amazing...we normally drive 110 km/hr (70 miles/hr)highway and only get 18-21 mpg but at 80 km/hr, it does 53 mpg?!?!? Since it was SO GOOD, the mechanic didn't check anything mechanical and seemed to blame it on the temperature, hills, environment, and so on - not the car...funny thing, we drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee the same way and got 15-17 mpg highway at 110 km????
Probably won't sacrifice the power of a Jeep for the measly mpg we save with the Vibe in a future purchase....unless we see significant savings in the next few years...most of my driving is city, lots of start/stop and hills so I guess that's it - definately not impressed...and yes, we noted the poorer numbers for the AWD but we are in Western Newfoundland where last year we got 8 feet of the white stuff....none yet, thank goodness!
It's a long shot, and it's also something the mechanic who tested your Vibe should have mentioned. But are you sure the "overdrive off" button on the shifter is not depressed? Or if the button isn't depressed, is the mechanic sure the overdrive gear (4th gear) is kicking in properly?
3600 on odometer getting 18-20MPG in town and 26-28 Frwy.(based on stats from 15 fill-ups since new purchase in January). I don’t use the car everyday and do mostly in-town driving/flat terrain.
I’ve severed my relationship with the original dealership since the service manager is always backed up by customer service. Service finds 20MPG “acceptable” if HAL,“the computer”, says there are no errors reported. They also blame possibly“the way I drive” and have twice questioned my method for arriving at the MPG. Insults to injury..such appalling customer disservice.
I’m a senior female who goes with the flow..no street racing, peeling out, or popping wheelies and I can set “A” tripmeter to zero after a fillup while dividing the # of miles driven BY the # of gallons used just to be clear..
3000mi maintenance was completed at a more customer–friendly dealership..no errors found . After sending a letter to corporate and having the door shut in my face once again, I inadvertently contacted a regional customer service manager for Toyota. He was to arrange for a meet with a Factory Tech Specialist in Sept. I’m still waiting for the appointment date. The once friendly and helpful regional CS mgr has not returned any of my weekly voice mails.
California has “LemonLaw” which Toyota urged me to postpone until they have a chance to arbitrate. I’m not willing to postpone much longer. Love the car until I see the Toyota “mileage bragging” TV ads and question Matrix owners in parking lots about MPG .
I left Honda (88Accord hatchback) looking for a wagon and was assured that Toyota products were outstanding with customer service to match. Sadly , not my experience thus far.
Does anyone have suggestions re: improving MPG and/or contacting /dealing with the corporate level tech staff at Toyota? Has anyone exercised their rights under the LemomLaw regarding a problem like this? If you would care to share, I’d be most grateful..
(1) Midnite -- What does "17" LPT" stand for?
(2) Sandhog2 -- Is your calculation imperial gallons?
Like sandhog2, we also have the 4WD. Ours is an '03. I just calculated the overall MPG for the first 20,000 miles and came up with 26.7 mpg (US). That's more in-town than highway.
FWD should do better than 4WD. Any actual mileage figures from FWD owners?
When the Mrs. drives it, which is an easy city/2-lane hiway mix, it's 30 or 31 mpg.
midnite: something is wrong with your car. Do the following experiment: Go to a convenient gas station, pick a pump and remember it. Fill the car up almost to the end, then the rest on the slowest setting. Go and drive 50 miles at least, preferably steady freeway driving. Go back to the same gas station, park in the exact same spot, put the hose in exactly the same way, and fill up. You SHOULD be seeing >30 mpg. If there is something wrong with your car as described, you will see ~20 mpg. If that is the case, go to the dealership and propose to repeat the experiment with one of their people in the car... it'll take 90 minutes, but it's otherwise cheap. Maybe then they'll listen to you.
The only thing I could see is a bad O2 sensor in front of the catalytic converter... continuously running too rich... which isn't doing that cat any favors, btw... it should get blazingly hot; maybe they could measure the cat temperature under load... changing the sensor would be a cheap thing to do, <$200 cost to them...
Good luck, and let us know.
-Mathias
The running average for the entire time I had my Matrix XR auto FWD was 32.8 mpg (rounded to the tenth). I tend NOT to bury the gas pedal as a habit, and that was mixed driving with a couple of 1000-mile highway trips mixed in there. In the hilly country of the San Francisco coastal suburbs, which pretty much never freeze but where you run the A/C all summer and the wipers all winter, pretty much. Mine was an '03, one of the early ones.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
steine13...many thx for the suggestion..I've tried a modified experiment in the past and my MPG results were consistent with the others. I actually have every tankful recorded from day one..receipts, tripmeter reading, type of driving, etc. Neither dealership has driven the car so I'm betting the cat cvtr temp hasn't been considered.They seem to rely on computer readings to guide them and "no errors here".
P.S. I am getting 26/27 mpg on a freeway (50+ mile trip)filling up beginning & end at the same Chevron station (used 89 octane but dealer told me 87 is better) The majority of my driving is in town and that's 18-20mpg depending on a/c usage.
I'll get back to you.
At 1800 miles (April) I had an experience in a parking stall at work with the gear shifter(auto) being uncontrollable & ineffective. Couldn't get into "park" and in "neutral" the car lurched frwd with my foot off the brake. I reached down to make sure nothing was pressuring the accelerator. After a lot of pushing, pulling and sweating, the gear shifter finally snapped into "park" and I was able to shut off the ignition. Later drove home with no problem.
Next day I had the car washed and while driving out of the lot, I noticed each time I used the brake it sounded like metal scraping cement(4times at least)Once on the street as I approached the first red lite the brakes wouldn't grab and I almost went into the intersection. Went slowly to the dealership and left the car. Next day I was told "computer found NO problem".
For the next few weeks,I drove this car in the slow lane with every nerve in my body on alert. Fortunately, seven months later, no repeated incidents..Hmmmm...nothing found to fix?
Now at 32,000 miles, getting about 30/31 mpg.
Typical tankful:
I drive mostly highway (75%), 10% of time in traffic, other times - going 75 to 85mph, hitting 95mph at times, until I can see the speedometer.
In NJ, seems the summer months are better than winter - probably due to gas mixture.
No problems except for:
1) opening storage under shifter and
2) those stupid DRL on/off/on/off in daylight.
Luzer, the Matrix had a fix for the DRL problem. They replaced the sensor with one more suitable for the location on the dash. At that time people commented that there was no fix as yet for the Vibe. Does anyone know if they ever came out with one? We bought our Matrix in late August 2003 and it reportedly was among the last built with the original problem sensor.
Don't you mean August 2002? That was then Toyota issued the TSB and switched to the new twilight sensor. They switched out mine right about then.
I don't think Pontiac works the same way, and hence there was no update for people with earlier Vibes. But I am SURE it could not be that expensive to walk down to the local Toyota dealer and have them install one of the newer sensors in a Vibe. I remember how much that issue irritated me on my Matrix, and I would have paid to fix it if I had had to.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Nippon, I verified that you could not put a Vibe roof rack on a Matrix. Is it possible that the Matrix sensor is different from the Vibe sensor?
I remember that the service manager told me that, according to the TBS, switching the sensor would not solve the problem I was describing. But of course it did!
Now since my car is at 35,000 miles, I asked if they would charge me if the TSB came out with a SW fix - he stated that they are allowed some goodwill - depending on the fix. If there is a recall for the cat converter, then it's covered for 80,000 miles per fed gov't. I am not sure if they just go the TSB route with a cat converter....
But I rented them a couple of times and the service people always told me just to put regular in it, which I did, and which everyone else presumably did. At 20K miles that car was going strong - no sign of pinging, knocking, or anything other thing, despite the fact no-one was putting the recommended premium unleaded in it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)