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RS6 sedan
The upcoming RS6 definitely looks good on paper, but will it be enough to dethrone the M5?
Ed Hellwig
Road Test/Future Vehicles Editor
Ed Hellwig
Road Test/Future Vehicles Editor
0
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Comments
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
If I had $80k to spend on a car, I would pick the RS6 over the M5.
If I had $50-70k to spend on a car, I'd get the Infiniti Q45 sport (that rear-view camera is cool, not to mention 340 horses).
-greendemon
The RS is an Auto Tranny with the tiptronic sportshift. Since I do not believe you can get an M5 in an Auto, they really do not compete with each other. Also there will supposedly be less than a 1000 imported here.
I just put down a $ 5000 down payment for a 2003 RS 6 (I'm to take delivery in May 2003.) I have to let the dealer know which 3 color choices I prefer (from most wanted to least.) I was thinking First: Blue; Second: Red; Third: Silver. What do you guys think? Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
M
500HP -- just sounds right, don't you think.
But, I agree with the comments about the A6 4.2 -- I have a 2001 with sport package and I can see no reason (in this market -- the US) to even consider the S6 -- the increase in price for 40HP and a little more torque seems a bit out of balance -- the RS6 certainly seems to be the "supercar" du jour -- but it comes at a super price.
I wonder when the trick suspension on the RS6 will make it "down the line" to the lowly A6 2.7T and 4.2 (and S6 Avant)?
The suspension actually gets my attention even more than the power -- in urban Cincinnati my 300HP 4.2 A6 has few rivals -- and besides I rarely have the chance to appreciate it in Orange Barrel Hell -- which is, after all, the way we live.
But, perhaps for $65K an RS6 would be just too too tempting (but that is the price of the S6 Avant -- so fat chance).
Dream on, Mark, dream on.
So I chose the S4 because of its balance of high performance, comfort, saftety (think AWD in winter), and utility. I have not had one moment of buyer's remorse. However, I've found that at times I've longed for more razor's edge sport handling on the sharp curves; and at times I've longed for more luxury features like a nav system with On-Star features (not the pretend nav system available at the time) and controls on the steering wheel. Other irritants are a notchy stick that lacks smoothness and some quality problems that, while completely covered under warranty, give me pause about long-term quality.
More pointedly, Volkswagen has a SERIOUS styling and marketing problem. First, the S4 has subtly muscular good looks that wear well with time. But it looks too much like an entry-level A4 with the 1.8 liter engine (both inside and out)! Now we see VW making the new A4 look like an A6. Then we see the regular VW's looking a heck of a lot like Audis. Then we see high-end AWD Volkwagens, priced at $40k-$60k+, with ultra-luxury features and advanced engines. So why buy an Audi at all?
Then there's the broader marketing problem. The issue with my S4 is that it is obvious that Audi COULD have made it a true object of auto-lust, like the new M3. Aftermarket tweakers seem to have figured out that suspension, brake, and engine chip swaps can produce a truly awesome dream machine. But Audi refused to build such a machine in the S4. Hey Audi: Does it really make sense to make the highest expression of the A4 series concept the RS4 STATION WAGON(sold only in Europe at that)? Does that make sense?! Anyone seen an M3 wagon lately? How about a M-B E55 AMG wagon? Instead they bring out an enjoyably spirited, nicely balanced machine with the S4--except that while I am not at all dissatisfied with the car, I lust after the kind of performance I could have with the E46 M3.
Now let's talk RS6. I get the Audi club magazine, where there are so nice photos and an article about the car. Once again, the car looks subtly muscular and very nice. But it still looks too much like a regular A6 with bigger rubber. I do salute Audi for finally deciding to build a car capable of inciting auto-lust. The point of these exercises (as with the M and AMG cars) is to sell more A4's, A6's, and A8's by gaining a higher profile for the brand. But at the same time VW continues to encroach on the Audi brand with their high-end VW models! And while the car comes closer to the ultimate sedan, there's still a few areas where they have not taken a leadership position with the RS6.
The two areas pertain to weight distribution and tranmission. Bimmers are world-renown for their uncanny handling owing to their perfect weight distribution. I'm no engineer, but if both marques have their engines in the front and only Audi has extra components (read: weight) in the rear for the AWD capability, then shouldn't Audi be the one boasting perfect weight distribution??? Maybe this new suspension system will do something great, but does anyone on this forum expect Audi to overtake BMW on state-of-the-art balanced handling? The other issue is VW said that they don't possess the capability to match a 6-spd manual to such a powerful engine. So they'll install an auto-manual. The problem is that I drove a friend's A4 with the tiptronic and it was an absolute joke to shift manually (viz., really sloooow). It was so useless as to constitute false advertising. But leave it to BMW to come out with the most advanced Formula 1-inspired TRUE manual-without-clutch tranny in the world (on the M3). The Audi magazine seems to suggest that while it will include paddles for shifting the auto-manual (instead of the useless buttons) it will be just the usual Tiptronic they have always used.
OK. So I'm getting married and I am looking to buy a larger sedan than my S4. [Since I leased my S4, that will be replaced in 18 mos. as well.] Yes, I have started to actually get excited about the RS6, but I have to think about that one carefully. On the other hand, I lust over the M3 and the M5 (can't wait to see what BMW does with the M5 successor, as well as the M6). Audi, I hope you're listening and truly pull out the stops with the new S4 and the 2004 RS6. In the meantime, I'm thinking...and I'm getting excited. But I need to read some actual in-depth driving reviews of the car, particularly head-to-head with BMW and M-B. I'm rooting for Audi...but we'll see. Oh yes, the 0-60mph time for the RS6 is 4.6 seconds.
I'd want to build a sedan as large as the 7 series, drop in a 7.5 litre V-12 capable of 591 HP (based on altered M5 and 750 engine designs, the suspension, handling, braking and transmission off the M5, and maybe cut the amount of fuel injection based on the X5's 4.4 V8 because 7.5 is alot of gas and you may get better gas mileage for the same horsepower.
Plus i want to integrate several new security and safety features which would pave the way for 21st century vehicles. Personally, with a one-of-a-kind car like that, I'd want to call it "The New BMW M7." The room and luxery of a 7 series, but the sportiness of a M5- which are 2 of the most perfered types of BMWs consumers want to buy.
By the way, if they built a rear-wheel drive V10 300M, they'd sell more than they could build, just look at the demand GM had for Impalas from '94-'96. Discontiuing the B-body was one of their biggest mistakes.
Why are we so neglected?? The RS6 Avant is probably the coolest car on earth. Pack your family and all the luggage you need for a weekend and take of with speed and style.
I had them or driven alot of different cars- I use to road race motorcycles and I driven cars all over the world. From DKW and Saab 2-strokes to some pretty cool exotics. I have not had the pleasure of owning an exotic (not yet). Budget does not allow. However, thanks to Audi we now can have a near go fast experience in a car that is practical too. Talk about having your cake and eat it too.
I use to own a C4 vette (can you read garbage)..Ones a Vette never again. The people that cherish their Vettes also have a #3 sticker intheir window and still dthink that Schumacher is a chevy dealer.
I do admit that the z06 is a hell of bang for the buck go fast car. But it still lacks refinement. It is still a toy, see it on every corner sporstcar. I have two children-so that rules out the weekend trip to your local roadrace course.
The RS6 you can go there in style and comfort. Run circles around 99% of the cars and pack up your family and go home again. What a car...If I only could get the AVant with a 6spd
Happy Motoring and stay out of the left lane if someone is trying to pass...
Swederacer
the rs6 has a stronger engine, but the automatic helps make up for the difference. the wrong way.
The only thing I can think of is price. Seriously... $70-90k is CHEAP. Tell me how many other 400-500hp cars you can get for that price. Want something with the twisting power of a E55? You'll have to get a Viper (which has its vices and costs at least as much) or maybe a Ferrari that will cost two or two and a half times as much. It's almost as though having the two extra doors and the less sexy sedan styling results in a 50% price savings versus the same ingredients packaged in a "sports car" form factor. (i.e. M5 vs. Z8, E55 vs SL55)
Are these German supersedans basically the German supersedan equivalent of a Camaro? i.e. Cheap copious amounts of power at the expense of a chassis that makes the most of that power?
and i don't think a porsche owner, for example, would consider the sl55 to be a sportscar. actually, i don't know who would. grand tourer? sure. sports car? no.
Thats like saying the RS6 is better because it can produce more power with a smaller engine.
There are so many factors that come into play that comparing numbers is just pointless.
know that RS-6 has a legacy of R8 racers, winners of LE Mans race in 2000, 01 and 02. Where were BMWs.. All Beemers could see were taillights..
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I am disappointed the RS 6's lack of a 6spd transmission (either shifty or shiftless).
I am also disappointed in the low residual.
Having said that, I would certainly love to have one, but the S4 was incredible -- it brought the memories back of the '95 S6 -- the RS 6 seemed, well, a tiny bit too "civil" -- and the price and as noted the residual turn me off.
Put the suspension from the RS 6 into the S4, market the heck out of it and, well, Audi, you will have a license to to print money!
Maybe a test drive in the RS 6 would wow me -- indeed, I am certain it would. But it isn't, to me, $30K more car than my last A6 4.2 "sport" pack equipped version.
As I said, I certainly wouldn't look a "gift" one in the mouth though, if you get my drift.