RS6 sedan

fst1 · July 2002

The upcoming RS6 definitely looks good on paper, but will it be enough to dethrone the M5?

Ed Hellwig
Road Test/Future Vehicles Editor

andys120 · July 2002

It's said to be the most powerful sedan currently for sale 450hp. but I imagine if that's so BMW will up the ante quickly. Personally I think the less powerful A6 4.2 is a better deal, ditto the 540i.

verozahl · July 2002

Yeow.

ascariss · July 2002

Until the next M5 E60 comes out, till then the RS6 will be the best buy for the most powerful sedan. But if you wait long enough, Audi is coming out with the RS8, very powerful!

skolla · August 2002

When you have that much power, it makes sense to have all wheel drive. Especially in the snow. This car has brilliant specs and I eagerly await its arrival.

greendemon · August 2002

I think the RS6 will be able to beat the M5 in the 1/4 mile by almost 1 second, and if it's raining, forget it!

If I had $80k to spend on a car, I would pick the RS6 over the M5.

If I had $50-70k to spend on a car, I'd get the Infiniti Q45 sport (that rear-view camera is cool, not to mention 340 horses).

-greendemon

kevin111 · August 2002

I think as a 2005 model according to the BMW dealer. Rumors are for the V10 F1 engine posting in excess of 460 hp!!!

The RS is an Auto Tranny with the tiptronic sportshift. Since I do not believe you can get an M5 in an Auto, they really do not compete with each other. Also there will supposedly be less than a 1000 imported here.

audi21 · August 2002

Hi folks,

I just put down a $ 5000 down payment for a 2003 RS 6 (I'm to take delivery in May 2003.) I have to let the dealer know which 3 color choices I prefer (from most wanted to least.) I was thinking First: Blue; Second: Red; Third: Silver. What do you guys think? Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

merc1 · August 2002

What shade is the blue? I'd pass on red, but you can't go wrong with silver on an Audi.

M

audi21 · August 2002

It's the dark blue color you see in the pictures on this site. I agree silver is very nice on this car. It's also available in a dark racing green, black, and grey. I was having second thoughts on the red as well (it might attract unwanted attention from police on the road.)

markcincinnati · September 2002

Word already buzzing around the Internet is that the RS6 @ 450HP is "way detuned" from what it can really be with a simple chip upgrade. It is said that the mildest form of chipping -- and no other enhancements will raise the HP and torque a "minimum" of 10%.

500HP -- just sounds right, don't you think.

But, I agree with the comments about the A6 4.2 -- I have a 2001 with sport package and I can see no reason (in this market -- the US) to even consider the S6 -- the increase in price for 40HP and a little more torque seems a bit out of balance -- the RS6 certainly seems to be the "supercar" du jour -- but it comes at a super price.

I wonder when the trick suspension on the RS6 will make it "down the line" to the lowly A6 2.7T and 4.2 (and S6 Avant)?

The suspension actually gets my attention even more than the power -- in urban Cincinnati my 300HP 4.2 A6 has few rivals -- and besides I rarely have the chance to appreciate it in Orange Barrel Hell -- which is, after all, the way we live.

But, perhaps for $65K an RS6 would be just too too tempting (but that is the price of the S6 Avant -- so fat chance).

Dream on, Mark, dream on.

fusion4you · September 2002

You would think they would give this car some distinction from it's 12 twin sisters. They all look the same and until there "supercar" looks different from their "economy" car - I am staying away. If Chrysler put a Viper engine in the 300M would that attract attention?...NO! - and neither does this for the enormous price tag

fusion4you · September 2002

0-60 in 4.9 seconds - Ha! If I want speed, I will get a Z06 or M3.

JBaumgart · September 2002

Yeah, but if you want speed PLUS real luxury, a real back seat and all wheel drive traction, get the RS6.

ilxman · September 2002

I own a 2001 6-spd S4 (in Nogaro Blue w/alcantara 2-tone seats). I chose it over the BMW 330 Ci and the '99 M3 (the new E46 M3's weren't out yet). The buying decision involved with this car illustrates well the problem with Audi and my attitude toward the RS6. I found the car's ride to be softer than BMW, so I figured it would be more comfortable in city driving (I live in downtown Chicago). But I am a big fan of the AWD traction, so while it doesn't feel as sporty it can do what the (old) M3 could do on dry pavement while spanking it on wet/snowy pavement. The new E46 330 Ci was more comfortable than the E36 M3, but obviously not as powerful.

So I chose the S4 because of its balance of high performance, comfort, saftety (think AWD in winter), and utility. I have not had one moment of buyer's remorse. However, I've found that at times I've longed for more razor's edge sport handling on the sharp curves; and at times I've longed for more luxury features like a nav system with On-Star features (not the pretend nav system available at the time) and controls on the steering wheel. Other irritants are a notchy stick that lacks smoothness and some quality problems that, while completely covered under warranty, give me pause about long-term quality.

More pointedly, Volkswagen has a SERIOUS styling and marketing problem. First, the S4 has subtly muscular good looks that wear well with time. But it looks too much like an entry-level A4 with the 1.8 liter engine (both inside and out)! Now we see VW making the new A4 look like an A6. Then we see the regular VW's looking a heck of a lot like Audis. Then we see high-end AWD Volkwagens, priced at $40k-$60k+, with ultra-luxury features and advanced engines. So why buy an Audi at all?

Then there's the broader marketing problem. The issue with my S4 is that it is obvious that Audi COULD have made it a true object of auto-lust, like the new M3. Aftermarket tweakers seem to have figured out that suspension, brake, and engine chip swaps can produce a truly awesome dream machine. But Audi refused to build such a machine in the S4. Hey Audi: Does it really make sense to make the highest expression of the A4 series concept the RS4 STATION WAGON(sold only in Europe at that)? Does that make sense?! Anyone seen an M3 wagon lately? How about a M-B E55 AMG wagon? Instead they bring out an enjoyably spirited, nicely balanced machine with the S4--except that while I am not at all dissatisfied with the car, I lust after the kind of performance I could have with the E46 M3.

Now let's talk RS6. I get the Audi club magazine, where there are so nice photos and an article about the car. Once again, the car looks subtly muscular and very nice. But it still looks too much like a regular A6 with bigger rubber. I do salute Audi for finally deciding to build a car capable of inciting auto-lust. The point of these exercises (as with the M and AMG cars) is to sell more A4's, A6's, and A8's by gaining a higher profile for the brand. But at the same time VW continues to encroach on the Audi brand with their high-end VW models! And while the car comes closer to the ultimate sedan, there's still a few areas where they have not taken a leadership position with the RS6.

The two areas pertain to weight distribution and tranmission. Bimmers are world-renown for their uncanny handling owing to their perfect weight distribution. I'm no engineer, but if both marques have their engines in the front and only Audi has extra components (read: weight) in the rear for the AWD capability, then shouldn't Audi be the one boasting perfect weight distribution??? Maybe this new suspension system will do something great, but does anyone on this forum expect Audi to overtake BMW on state-of-the-art balanced handling? The other issue is VW said that they don't possess the capability to match a 6-spd manual to such a powerful engine. So they'll install an auto-manual. The problem is that I drove a friend's A4 with the tiptronic and it was an absolute joke to shift manually (viz., really sloooow). It was so useless as to constitute false advertising. But leave it to BMW to come out with the most advanced Formula 1-inspired TRUE manual-without-clutch tranny in the world (on the M3). The Audi magazine seems to suggest that while it will include paddles for shifting the auto-manual (instead of the useless buttons) it will be just the usual Tiptronic they have always used.

OK. So I'm getting married and I am looking to buy a larger sedan than my S4. [Since I leased my S4, that will be replaced in 18 mos. as well.] Yes, I have started to actually get excited about the RS6, but I have to think about that one carefully. On the other hand, I lust over the M3 and the M5 (can't wait to see what BMW does with the M5 successor, as well as the M6). Audi, I hope you're listening and truly pull out the stops with the new S4 and the 2004 RS6. In the meantime, I'm thinking...and I'm getting excited. But I need to read some actual in-depth driving reviews of the car, particularly head-to-head with BMW and M-B. I'm rooting for Audi...but we'll see. Oh yes, the 0-60mph time for the RS6 is 4.6 seconds.

ilxman · September 2002

The other point that comes to mind with the RS6 is that premium price of $85k. Let's see...the M3 can certainly make the case for being the best GT on earth and it costs less than $60k; the M5 is about $70k and is (arguably) the best sedan on earth. So the RS6 comes along, still yet to prove it deserves to be in the M5's real-world performance class, and it costs a big chunk more money? I believe I recall the good folks here at Edmund's doing a head-to-head with the S8, BMW 7-series and M-B S-class sedans. If my memory serves, the Audi was judged to be competent, but simply uninspiring compared to the other two marques--while being too pricey at the same time. I, for one, hope Audi does not repeat the same folly....

joyrider147 · September 2002

I was thinking about getting the blueprints and several scrapped (government auction) BMWs: M5, X5, 750i/iL and a large model Cadillac. I want to design and build my own BMW when I have the time and energy to do it, based on altered design specifications and requirements.

I'd want to build a sedan as large as the 7 series, drop in a 7.5 litre V-12 capable of 591 HP (based on altered M5 and 750 engine designs, the suspension, handling, braking and transmission off the M5, and maybe cut the amount of fuel injection based on the X5's 4.4 V8 because 7.5 is alot of gas and you may get better gas mileage for the same horsepower.

Plus i want to integrate several new security and safety features which would pave the way for 21st century vehicles. Personally, with a one-of-a-kind car like that, I'd want to call it "The New BMW M7." The room and luxery of a 7 series, but the sportiness of a M5- which are 2 of the most perfered types of BMWs consumers want to buy.

f41driver · November 2002

Ever hear of the term "sleeper?" This is a great sleeper car. And, can you fit 4 other people in a ZO6? I know I can't. This car will run 12 second quarter-mile times and over 160mph (euro versions) stock, just think about the possibilities with ECU programming, nitrous oxide, etc. At $85K it is a little pricey, but look at Ferraris and all those "supercars," they cost much more than that for moderately more performance, and much less economy. I'd personally love to see the RS6 Avant make it to the U.S., and a 6-speed manual.

By the way, if they built a rear-wheel drive V10 300M, they'd sell more than they could build, just look at the demand GM had for Impalas from '94-'96. Discontiuing the B-body was one of their biggest mistakes.

bmwf1 · November 2002

Leave it to an Audi/Japanese car fan to make his decision based on 1/4 mile times. I thought that mentality was limited to Trans Am owners. Put them both on a road course and I guarantee the M5 comes out on top.

swederacer1 · November 2002

Wy is it that good old US of A does not get the hot cars of the world. The RS6 Avant, the Nissan Skyline, the WRX STi. The list goes on.....

Why are we so neglected?? The RS6 Avant is probably the coolest car on earth. Pack your family and all the luggage you need for a weekend and take of with speed and style.

I had them or driven alot of different cars- I use to road race motorcycles and I driven cars all over the world. From DKW and Saab 2-strokes to some pretty cool exotics. I have not had the pleasure of owning an exotic (not yet). Budget does not allow. However, thanks to Audi we now can have a near go fast experience in a car that is practical too. Talk about having your cake and eat it too.

I use to own a C4 vette (can you read garbage)..Ones a Vette never again. The people that cherish their Vettes also have a #3 sticker intheir window and still dthink that Schumacher is a chevy dealer.

I do admit that the z06 is a hell of bang for the buck go fast car. But it still lacks refinement. It is still a toy, see it on every corner sporstcar. I have two children-so that rules out the weekend trip to your local roadrace course.

The RS6 you can go there in style and comfort. Run circles around 99% of the cars and pack up your family and go home again. What a car...If I only could get the AVant with a 6spd

Happy Motoring and stay out of the left lane if someone is trying to pass...

Swederacer

daman82 · November 2002

I agree with everyone saying that $85k is too pricey for the RS6. BMW M5 starts at $70k and I doubt the RS6 will beat it in terms of overall package. The new E55 is supposed to be around $75k and has a lot more HP and torque (469 and 516, respectively) as well as a quicker 0-60 time. Is AWD really worth $10k? I don't think so.

coolio4433 · January 2003

I recall that MT clocked the M5 at ~4.65s 0-60 a while back. If the RS6 is "supposed" to do 4.6 then thats a negligible difference. Also note that the Bimmer has 50 less HP and still makes the same time.

jdbtensai · January 2003

it has a manual.
the rs6 has a stronger engine, but the automatic helps make up for the difference. the wrong way.

sphinx99 · January 2003

I'm wondering, is there any reason to buy one of these cars other than for bragging rights? I assumed that the mentality was, "my sedan would beat your sports car if I raced" but we all know that none of these sedans are going to see any track time. The sedans are larger and can hold more people, but I wouldn't want to be doing 0-60 in under 5 seconds with my children in the back seat, or a friend in the passenger seat. So, what's the point?

The only thing I can think of is price. Seriously... $70-90k is CHEAP. Tell me how many other 400-500hp cars you can get for that price. Want something with the twisting power of a E55? You'll have to get a Viper (which has its vices and costs at least as much) or maybe a Ferrari that will cost two or two and a half times as much. It's almost as though having the two extra doors and the less sexy sedan styling results in a 50% price savings versus the same ingredients packaged in a "sports car" form factor. (i.e. M5 vs. Z8, E55 vs SL55)

Are these German supersedans basically the German supersedan equivalent of a Camaro? i.e. Cheap copious amounts of power at the expense of a chassis that makes the most of that power?

jdbtensai · January 2003

i see your point, and even agree somewhat. but to use the word "cheap" when talking about an rs6, an m5, an e55, etc. seems a bit silly.
and i don't think a porsche owner, for example, would consider the sl55 to be a sportscar. actually, i don't know who would. grand tourer? sure. sports car? no.

l943973 · January 2003

Saying the M5 is just as fast as the RS6 with 50 less hp just silly.

Thats like saying the RS6 is better because it can produce more power with a smaller engine.

There are so many factors that come into play that comparing numbers is just pointless.

pearsonrj · April 2003

To those who think/thought that the RS6 would never give an M5 a run for it's money, take a look at the comparo in the May 2003 edition of Car and Driver. It's a real shame the RS6 doesn't have a 6-speed manual tranny, then it might get close to a 4.0 0-60 time...

onfire1 · September 2003

All Audi RS-6 sceptics ..

know that RS-6 has a legacy of R8 racers, winners of LE Mans race in 2000, 01 and 02. Where were BMWs.. All Beemers could see were taillights..

ksurg · November 2003

I drove an RS-6 yesterday. It was unbelievable! Unfortunately the price and low residuals at 3 and 4 years were also unbelievable. Given that I would be buying( not leasing because of the low residuals) a new '03 in 12/03 I feel I should be able to get it at or near invoice not MSRP. Despite the greatness of the car they're not exactly hopping out of the dealerships and many have backed out of orders. Consider also that the invoice price of the RS-6 is still above the MSRP of a nicely equipped 03" M5. Does anyone out there have recent experience in purchasing a RS-6.

andys120 · November 2003

it is visually underwhelming, virtually indistinguishable from an A6, of course that's part of the charm.

markcincinnati · November 2003

. . .but drove the S4 with a manual. I have had 2 V8 A6's, 2 V6 A6's and one 5 cylinder S6 (1995) and one V8 A8 and currently have a V6 allroad. My point is, I see the "lack of visual disctinction" comment loud and clear -- and have driven some very nice Audi V8 and factory "hot rod" offerings (from Audi).

I am disappointed the RS 6's lack of a 6spd transmission (either shifty or shiftless).

I am also disappointed in the low residual.

Having said that, I would certainly love to have one, but the S4 was incredible -- it brought the memories back of the '95 S6 -- the RS 6 seemed, well, a tiny bit too "civil" -- and the price and as noted the residual turn me off.

Put the suspension from the RS 6 into the S4, market the heck out of it and, well, Audi, you will have a license to to print money!

Maybe a test drive in the RS 6 would wow me -- indeed, I am certain it would. But it isn't, to me, $30K more car than my last A6 4.2 "sport" pack equipped version.

As I said, I certainly wouldn't look a "gift" one in the mouth though, if you get my drift.

ksurg · November 2003

First of all you do have to drive the RS-6 to appreciate it. Coming from another A6 4.2 owner once you drive the RS-6 you be dumb struck to believe that it could share anything other than a shell. I own a Carrera 4S and am tired of visual distinction( some the most distinguished are also cheaply made, placing look over substance). The M5 is not particularly distinguished nor is the E55 AMG. As for residuals...yeah they're poor. However in speaking with a BMW dealer they're anticipating $25-30 over MSRP for 6 months after the car hits the US. So add that into the depreciation. Lastly I don't have to go far to find a M5 or E55 AMG. You want exclusivity go with the RS-6. Too bad most Americans have never driven a RS Audi.

markcincinnati · November 2003

. . .but even if my chance to own one is gone, the S4 was very sweet. I hope the RS 6 suspension migrates to other Audis, as I saw the test report of the RS 6 on SPEEDVISION and the comments pertaining to the suspension were awesome.

portknoxxa · November 2003

WITH THE S2-DINAN M5 HAVING A 0-60 TIME OF 4.2S(APPROX.) WITH 470HP, THE NEW E55 AMG 0-60 IN ABOUT 4.3S. THE E60 M5 WITH AT LEAST 500HP AND ALSO BEING A LIGHTER CAR WITH THE EXTENSIVE USE OF ALUMINUM. IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE E60 M5 TO CLOCK A SUB 4.0S O-60, AND MAYBE A SUB 11.0 1/4 MILE. ALSO WILL THE USE OF ALUMINUM OFFSET THE WEIGHT OF THE E60 WHICH IS LARGER THAN THE E39 IN EVERY DIMENSION.

markcincinnati · November 2003

bmwf1 · June 2005

Certainly not the M5

RS6 sedan

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