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Chevy Impala 2004 Redesign

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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    The speed limiter is set at 108mph!
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    so are you finally done saying your car is a world beater when indeed you can see its merely another speck on the wall?

    At a minimum just admit its middle of the road status.

    "The Impala is bigger and weighs a little more too so its a trade off."

    It weighs more because the engine is a dated design that needs much more displacement just to equal that of a pedestrian Accord.

    Its bigger because the engine is bigger than it should be and therefore they have to bloat the size of the car to find enough space to put the engine.

    "I don't think anyone will be greatly disappointed with the very good acceleration off the line you will get with the S/C 3800 motor"

    True, however, they had to blow the darn thing to get it to that power level. Kind of an add on or band aid to get the hp when it would seem to make more sense to redesign the thing with modern tech and maybe they wouldn't have to resort to a blower to make it above average.

    "To bad the engines (Nissan) aren't as reliable."

    This is a completely fabricated statement that has absolutely no factual basis behind it. Not one shred of any kind of proof to stand behind the statement. Nissans and Maximas in particular have reputations of very high reliability.

    Meanwhile, more and more supposedly bulletproof 3800's going into shop with manifold problems and frustrated customers doling out major bucks to fix something on an engine that it wasn't supposed to happen to. My 77 y.o. father in law is one of those and says next time (after a lifetime of GM vehicles) he's going elsewhere (between the manifold and tranny he's 3100 dollars poorer). Go look on some of the other message boards and you will see the same stories with the manifold problems.

    Alpha, post 97, "why so many fans"? I dunno.....I think part of it is 'homerism' and the other part is that for a long time that a lot of folks became accustomed to GM powerplants destructing prematurely and when GM finally put out one that had respectable reliability, well, some folks viewed that as a major advance in the autotmotive world when in fact all GM really did is begin to approach the level of reliability that more discriminating buyers have thought as second nature in cars like Hondas, etc.

    "I know people with completely stock GTPs who ran 14.4's in the 1/4 mile!!"

    Who? and where?

    -NISSAN MAXIMA
    0-60 mph in 8.2 sec. 1/4-mile in 16.5 sec.-

    that must be a pre 2001 test mule.....the Maxima engine was enlarged for thr 2002 model year from 3.0 litres to 3.5 (which is STILL less than the 3800).

    "Ford Taurus (Mazda6 is based on this engine)
    0-60 mph in 8.9 sec. 1/4-mile in 16.9 sec."

    Yes, based loosely on it. The 6 has added variable valve timing, etc. and is rated with 20 more hp.

    go to car and driver and look for Impala road tests. Preview test for a 2000 Imp.

    go to page two and see the comment at the end...and also note that this article is from JUNE 1999....."Well, somewhere there's an SS badge and a supercharged 3800 V-6 just waiting for a home behind the bow tie."

    And now its almost 4 years later and we still wait..........I think Honda redesigned its Accord a couple of times in those four years.

    Not saying the Imp is a bad car....its not. The Imp has a lot to offer and is a really good value and a solid car. I just think GM's sedans would be that much better if they would not rely on that 3800 as their torch bearer.......keep it in the lineup for those whose tastes aren't that discriminating. But at least offer the rest of something a little higher and newer on the automotive food chain. And no bruhaha about GM developing this and that, and this will be out soon....is it out now? NO! It takes 4 years to put a blower on the cars they already have.

    I could not find a recent test of an automatic Maxima from 2002 or 2003 but here was some C/D numbers I found for the manual version.

    6.0 seconds to 60, 15.7 to 100, and 14.7 seconds at 97 mph over the quarter-mile.

    Couldnt find any info on Altima.

    It would be fun to see Nissan stroke out the maxima to 3.8 litres and put a blower on it. Then, it may do a sub 5 second run.
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    "It weighs more because the engine is a dated design that needs much more displacement just to equal that of a pedestrian Accord.
    Its bigger because the engine is bigger than it should be and therefore they have to bloat the size of the car to find enough space to put the engine."

    DOHC engines are much bigger than Pushrod engines, and they weigh MORE! There goes your argument! Do a little research!

    "True, however, they had to blow the darn thing to get it to that power level. Kind of an add on or band aid to get the hp when it would seem to make more sense to redesign the thing with modern tech and maybe they wouldn't have to resort to a blower to make it above average."

    Why don't you realize that it takes a little engineering to supercharge an engine at the factory and still offer the warranty and have it fully reliable (remember, this is a roots blower, not a turbo, CSC).

    "Nissans and Maximas in particular have reputations of very high reliability."

    I have friends who drive Maxima's and that particular Nissan engine needs to be in the shop every couple of months. It's documented too, go look.

    ""I know people with completely stock GTPs who ran 14.4's in the 1/4 mile!!"
    Who? and where?"

    Go to www.ClubGP.com

    "a lot of folks became accustomed to GM powerplants destructing prematurely and when GM finally put out one that had respectable reliability"

    Are you crazy man... if anything, this is backwards.... GM's quality was sky high from the 40s-early 80s.. late 80s-early 90s it slipped.. that's where you come in. It's back. Did you know the 3800 is based off the late 1970s Buick 231ci block? It's been refined to what it is now. Funny how nobody I know.. nor anybody I know with a Grand Prix has this manifold problem.. it's not a large issue, it's scattered.

    "It takes 4 years to put a blower on the cars they already have."

    The engine's been out since 1995 dude... what was Honda and Nissan doing then? huh? The 3800 puts out 265HP/295TQ now, and that's tops buddy... what other car beats that?

    And finally, do a little research on DOHC engines... learn something..
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    And, no I don't think the 3800 is the best engine in the world, or the most powerful in the world... but it's damn good.. super reliable, and very torquey, and that's what I want. It's a fine engine and it's so good, it's held it's own for more than a dacade.... and that's what we're trying to get across....
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    02lssport02lssport Member Posts: 75
    Hmm, maybe it was 105. I only glanced at the speedometer quickly. Ya know I was watching the road! lol

    That DHP PCM wll fix the limiter yes? Well that could be a bad thing for me.

    Atbear check the radio secion. I want to ask you something about your new rear speakers.
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    more than a decade? I remember reading a Car and Driver article for the Intrigue, I beleive, stating that the 3800's basic architecture dates back to 1962. I'll try and find the exact exact issue at home tonight. After 40 years, it should be reliable.

    ~alpha
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    I believe it's back to 1978, but not sure about that exact date. The 3800 used today is based off the Buick 231 block. It's gone through many revisions...
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    formersuver1formersuver1 Member Posts: 19
    I've just finished over 3 years with the 3.5l. dohc in the Intrigue--never had a problem with the car itself, almost 40,000 miles. I've had Acura Legends (Sterling), Volvo, Mercedes turbo diesel, Camry, etc. etc. I've now gone to the Buick Regal, largely because of the 3.8 engine. It's very torquey, utterly reliable (I've no idea where you get the alleged manifold problems--GM did have a problem, according to my brother-in-law for part of the 1999 model run, with the sealant used in the gasket installation, but that was relatively limited and quickly fixed, although I suppose some could still be showing up--usually happens at around 15-20,000 miles (my brother-in-law is a service manager at a large Buick-Pontiac dealership). He said the very few problems he's ever seen have happened because people paid no attention to coolant level....anyway, I prefer the pushrod because of it's very flat torque curve. I do a lot of merging from around 30 mph and need to get up to speed (around 50-60) fairly quickly. The 3.8 is a nice even strong pull-- The dohc would do it, but only when I stomped on it. If I wanted to accelerate from 75 mph to 85 mph, dohc wins hands down--but let me count the times I ever wanted to do that....never! Remember, it could be a lot worse, we could have bought a Taurus!!
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    vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Isn't it kind of obsolete since the only "redesign" is sticking the 97-03 GTP motor in the 04 Impala?

    Whats all this engine talk? There is always going to be a small vocal minority of people who prefer large displacement pushrod engines just as there are people who prefer cruising in Harleys over zipping around on a crotch rocket.

    Is flooring an automatic car and driving in a straight line the complete measure of car's performance? What about the twisties!
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    You are correct on all points, vcjumper.
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    02lssport02lssport Member Posts: 75
    Just to show how reviewers can have such different views and numbers...

    From New Car Test Drive...

    "Since you can get the big 200-horsepower 3.8-liter V6 as an option in the lower-priced base model, the Impala becomes the least expensive GM car powered by this gutsy pushrod engine. Chevy claims it will accelerate to 60 mph in 7.7 seconds, which is quick for this class."

    "When the Impala was introduced as a new model in 2000, Chevrolet was aiming for a car to carry the heritage behind that famous name. The result is a capable, quick, and fun car that drives nothing like Impalas of old. And that's good news. You can bet there was debate whether to dredge up the image of old ill-handling Impalas by resurrecting the name, but for younger generations who never knew the older versions of the car, "Impala" will mean something entirely different.

    The Impala delivers excellent value among mid-size sedans, with decent handling, immediately recognizable design cues, and a long-list of amenities."
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    02lssport02lssport Member Posts: 75
    Go learn something:
    http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-gmmot- ors4dec04.story

    GM will continue to use OHV engines and continue to improve the design to keep up with OHC engines.

    These OHV engines from GM will continue to produce more HP (as in the Corvette V8 compared to the likes of the Mustang V8 or BMW v8) and continue to be less expensive to produce, lighter, and more fuel efficient.

    Why don't you head over to the Vette forum and inform them that the engine design in their #1 rated sports car is old outdated technology and that they are part of a small minority.

    Huh?
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    vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    The 3800 motor is a far cry from the Z06 motor.

    I've driven 3800, 3100 and 3400 equipped cars on cold winter mornings and I do most of my driving from 55-85mph. I cannot afford a z06. For these reasons I prefer OHC.

    If GM has decided OHV is better than OHC, why have they been replacing many OHV motors with OHC ones (2200 ecotec, 4200/3500/2800 vortec, 260hp 3.6L global v6 3.6l)
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "He said the very few problems he's ever seen have happened because people paid no attention to coolant level"

    That's complete and utter bullcrap. Why are the manifolds popping off in the first place. Checking your coolant level every other day is not gonna prevent the damn thing from breaking.

    "Is flooring an automatic car and driving in a straight line the complete measure of car's performance? What about the twisties!"

    Well in that instance, the Impala fails even more miserably.

    "Isn't it kind of obsolete since the only "redesign" is sticking the 97-03 GTP motor in the 04 Impala?"

    The topic is not obsolete, the car is. Exactly the point....why is it even worthy of news that it takes them 4 years to put a supercharger in the car when it was available before the car was even released? HOW CLUELESS CAN GM BE? ITS EMBARASSING FOR THEM TO MAKE A PRESS RELEASE ON IT.

    Besides, in the article, Ford says their cost to build those engines is the same, because of the other efficiencies they realize from commiting to the OHC design across the board instead of having a buttload of engines all with different designs.

    vcjumper....I think what it is is that the world arm of GM is producing sophisticated powertrains but GM as a company is still reluctant to go global with their engine development programs. The North American arm stubbornly refuses and would prefer to develop a large number of their own engines, who knows why. It can only cost GM millions of extra dollars to have world GM and North American GM going their own separate ways like they do.

    I am very interested in the new world GM v6's DOHC, but now I already see they won't offer the 3.2 in the Malibu, instead a pushrod motor. That kills that one for me.

    LOL if GM is so against OHC why do the trailblazer and new pickups have OHC.....why were they forced into putting them in all the small cars? Face it...GM was caught with their pants down. The public does care. GM had better get some OHC motors in their midsize offerings soon. Go to the Intrigue boards and you will see there are more who prefered the shortstar than those who were like formersuver who appears to never take his vehicle out of town on the interstate or out of the city streets and urban environment.

    In the article Ford claims they build the engines for the same cost because of all the efficiencies related to having common and modern designs.
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    02lssport02lssport Member Posts: 75
    OHV and OHC engines both have their pros and cons and both have their rightful place right now.

    Perhaps at some point the OHV design will be obsolete but we have not reached that point yet.

    All I care about is durability, reliability, power, and efficiency. I don't care if the original design of the engine is over 20 years old and why should I or anyone else. There have been many advancements in the OHV design and there will be more to come.

    GM's OHV beats many of its competitors in those categories above. The 3800 has better gas milage and power then a good number of its competitors and the v8 OHV puts out more power then just about ever other engine so what the hell are you taklking about. That is all that matters in the end.

    To say the Impala is obsolete is pure nonsence. As far as power, performance, comfort, looks, cornering it is in the middle of the pack. There are a few cars in its class that are slightly better and there are a few cars that are below it. Most people would agree with that.
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    From today's USA Today test drive (James Healy) on the 2004 Grand Prix (which got a very favorable review, and its darn good looking, if you must go mid-size GM, here is my choice.)

    "All GP models use GM's hoary 3.8-liter V-6, lineal descendant of the shake-and-shudder six-banger that made its debut in early '60s Buicks. GM's refined it beyond reason over the years, and now it's quite a good power factory. "

    ~alpha
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    vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    I sat in the 04 GP at the auto show. The disappointment for me was rear headroom. Was pretty cramped back there for a large midsize (well for a small midsize too!) and I need to stick adult passengers in the rear quarters pretty often.
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    "Why are the manifolds popping off in the first place."

    No ones manifold has ever popped off! Why did you just make that up??

    "What about the twisties!"
    Well in that instance, the Impala fails even more miserably."

    Well Impala's about in the middle of the pack. It has good road feel, but far too much body roll. It's not really supposed to be a twisty taker though...

    "if GM is so against OHC why do the trailblazer and new pickups have OHC"

    That's the craziest thing I've ever heard! HAHA... good one. try V8's and I4's I5's and I6's...

    This topic is pretty much dead......
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    Trailblazer uses an inline 6 that is DOHC. The engine has been getting raves. The upcoming Colorado which replaces the s-10 due soon will have 4 and 5 cylinder variants of this DOHC as the only available motors. That was to which I was referring to. GM is designing a whole range of motors around DOHC architecture and modular (basically copying Fords ten year old idea) in size and cylinders for their Trailblazer and Colorado lines. Not for full size, but for the midsize trucks. Apparently if the argument for OHV is so strong then why is GM itself being contradictory.

    Previous poster is right, both have a place. Its just such a huge market flaw for GM to put all its eggs in one basket reagrding powertrains for sedans. It excludes OHC powerplants from availablity in the segments it would benefit from them the most. The Impala is one of them.

    As far as the manifold thing there is enough postings on edmunds here and I know from personal experience that it is indeed a problem for recent model years of cars with 3800 engines and plastic manifolds......seems to be occuring with quite high frequency.
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    http://www.carshowtomt.com/forum/questions/

    scroll down to question 47.

    my father inlaws car is a 98 model that has/had the same issues. When my FIL called the mechanic, the mechanic knew exactly what the problem was before he even brought the car in, the mechanic had quite a few people call him with the same problem......

    it wouldn't take me long to find other places where this is being discussed.

    bulletproof? no, not exactly.
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    jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    OK, so the 3800 Series II isn't perfect, but what engine is? After all, the car manufacturers want to sell everyone a new car every 5-6 years anyway. I assume that question #47 pertains to the non-supercharged version of this motor. Do you think the S/C version is MORE likely to develop this problem sooner because of the high pressures it generates during blower activation? Seems it might.
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    pgorges1pgorges1 Member Posts: 1
    I own a 2000 Regal GSE with a Supercharged 3800. There are plenty of things to hate about GM, but this engine is not one of them. It is quiet, smooth, and the gas mileage is excellent considering the performance. I just wish they would up the Hp to close to 300Hp. I also own a Dodge Dakota with Chrysler's fairly new OVC V8. It is okay, but doesn't come close to the 3800. I know I'm comparing a 4WD truck to a sedan, but that is all I have for a daily comparison.

      regfootball, please don't mention the Honda Accord. That is the most overrated, boring car ever produced. I would almost drive a minivan over it. The Maxima is a nice car and deserves its high ranking.
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    oddly enough i checked out the accord today. everyone is indeed raving over it. mechanically and dynamically i could understand but the interior of the car is not as nice in person as it is in pictures. I think the Mazda 6 is nicer and that ain't saying much. I did test drive a six speed maxima again.....love that engine but maybe its worth it to wait till 2004.

    ok....sorry to have interrupted the topic...bye bye
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    "Apparently if the argument for OHV is so strong then why is GM itself being contradictory."

    I'm not saying DOHC's are a good design! I'm saying the Hondas and Mitsubishis and such with em don't make any torque! I mean, look at the early 90's ZR-1 Corvette: one of the Fastest Corvettes ever produced, and it was a GM DOHC V8 engine, top notch. DOHC definately is awesome, just not always, and in comparison to everything...

    "seems to be occuring with quite high frequency."

    It is a very rare problem.

    "Do you think the S/C version is MORE likely to develop this problem sooner because of the high pressures it generates during blower activation? Seems it might."

    The S/C 3800 is completely different up top, and doesn't use the same top end.
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    jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    I posted this same message in the Buick Regal forum (I own a '98 GS and wife owns a '00 GSE):

    I see where the '04 Pontiac GTP engine is now rated at 260 HP instead of 240, with 280 ft-lbs of torque. Has anyone heard if the '04 Regal GS will be getting this same improved version of the S/C 3800? I wonder though why the engine torque stayed at 280 ft-lbs, instead of increasing to say, 300 ft-lbs? They must have improved the exhaust flow and/or are using a smaller pulley to get 20 more HP.

    Does anyone have an answer to my question?
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    It's a new engine (well, sort of!). It's the Series III 3800, instead of the Series II 3800 in the new GTPs. There is a new higher efficiency supercharger, throttle by wire, and a few other features. The HP goes up as you see and the torque probably does to cause they're related (it's probably underrated), but the tranny is rated at 280 ft/lbs of torque, so instead of designing a new tranny, they just "didn't" raise the torque numbers. The new engine should rock!
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "It is a very rare problem."

    please review drivinisfun's post #11498 on the chevrolet impala topic in sedans.....even the owners admit it is an issue.
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    It is a very rare problem! It happens in about 2% of cars.. if that.
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Regfootball, SOME owners (who have had the problem) claim it is a very common problem. NOT "THE" owners.

    I am an owner. I also post over there. My 2000 LS has 113,000 miles on it, with only a headlight switch and brakes replaced, the latter at over 80,000 miles!

    Please don't put words in "the owners" mouths. If ONE Impala owner steals a dog, that does not make me a dognapper. And one or two or even six dozen people on the internet in what is often a complaints forum posting about a problem does not necessarily mean the problem is widespread.
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    jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Thanks for the info about the new 3800 Series III. Why in hell didn't Chevy install this same engine in the '04 Impala SS and Monte Carlo SS? Could it be some GM exec (Bob Lutz?) didn't want the '04 SS Chevys competeting with the '04 GTP? I sometimes wonder what their marketing people are thinking!
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    i'd bet its more than 2%......

    considering how it is a design flaw it may happen to all who own that engine.

    hell, if my father in law in the town of a thousand says his mechanic told him he's already fixed three of them before his, and he's not even a dealer mechanic........

    heck just go to google.com and type in "3800 manifold problem".....tell me its rare then.
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    Yeah, we don't like that it didn't get the Series III, but the reason is the same that it didn't get the S/C 3800 til now-- they didn't want to step on Buick and Pontiac's toes.

    reg, the manifold problem is rare, and it doesn't affect a high percentage of 3800s.
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    You drive 56,000 + miles per year? Wow.
    ~alpha
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    garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    I suspect is does happen too much and is a weak point. It happened to me. But so what? It's not the end of the world. I love our Impala. It's been an overall great car to drive for the money. Nice solid ride, decent power (sorry, I don't give a rat's ___ about how a car performed around the pylons - I haven't seen any on the road yet), comfortable, room everywhere, incredible mileage, very high safety.......

    To be as objective as possible - the car may lag a bit in reliability, but you have to put that into context. Most everything on the road is greatly improved over 10 years ago. How many more problems does the Impala have over a Camry or Accord? 20 per 1000 cars? 50??? 75??More??? I don't really know, but I'd guess somewhere in that range. But for me (this is just me now) 2, 5, 7 or 10 cars in a 100 that have more problems don't exactly outweigh the "more car for the money". Just MHO. There is no right answer here. I drove (back in 2001) the more reliable imports in that same price range and I'll go with the Impala for what seemed to be a more pleasing car as described above.

    If you will not compromise reliability at all - nil, then an import may be the way to go. Also, if your ego is totally subject to what the pin-head magazine reviews say, go with an import.
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    I'd put the current Impala (and other W-bodies) with the 3800 up in a reliability test against the Accord (and Acura), Maxima and Camry (and the Intrepid too), and expect the 3800 Impala to win. The transmission's not going to go out (period).. and the engine won't have any problems either. The manifold problem is rare.. this is an Impala group, and those article are problem groups.. of course people are going to go there to report their problems...
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    if its the same tranny that is used on the 98 model year olds 88.....well my father in law's went out also. Between the manifold issue and tranny he's got over 3 grand in that bulletproof drivetrain.

    But typically GM automatics on the larger cars hold up pretty well compared to say, Chrysler and yes Ford.

    The manifold issue is not a complete epidemic but it not 'rare'. Somewhere inbetween that is the truth.

    So on the 2004 SS did Chevy put tiny 16" wheels on the car or are they actually keeping up with the world and using at least 17" tires and wheels?
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    vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Which cars in the SS price range have 17" wheels? Which cars in the same price range have > 17" wheels?
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    The manifold problem is rare.... and I believe it is not the same tranny (I think he had the 4T60-E and we have the 4T65-E).

    The answer is not many! Not many other cars around $25000 has 17" wheels in that class.
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    17" can be had on

    Altima
    Maxima
    Mazda6
    Concorde
    Bonneville
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    In many cases, at extra cost. I would rather have a CHOICE. If optional, I don't have to pay for them if I DON'T want them. And I don't.
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    garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    I did not know 17 inch wheels defined superiority in any way. Man 17's on an Altima, Maxima, or Mazda 6 - no thanks. No side wall - crappy ride. Stupid. Sure it helps maneuver the pylons and impresses the greasy kids I guess.

    It's cool though if you get some choice. Bigger wheels as an option perhaps.

    The anecdotal stuff is kind of lame. Hey, I had an 86 Sunbird that I drove from 17k to 160k when I got rid of it. Tranny was still strong. Oh - GM makes great trannies. We can trade anecdotes all day. Who cares? Doesn't prove anything.
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    well the alloy wheels on the Impala are OPTIONAL too aren't they?

    The SS package will be an outrageously priced option package. All it will do is up the incentives beyond the 3 and 4 grand they already need to have to even get folks in the showroom.
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    jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    It's all relative. Back in '94-'96 buyers were willing to pay more for the Impala SS over other Chevys. Although I'm not sure the '04 SS will be as much a collector's item. I read where the SS collectors are upset about the '04 SS possibly driving down prices. The new SS will be faster than the older one.
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    atbearatbear Member Posts: 322
    "well the alloy wheels on the Impala are OPTIONAL too aren't they?"

    No, they are standard.
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    magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    They're standard on the LS and presumably the SS. But on the base model, they've got those weird multispoke wheels.
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    regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    It was worth paying sticker for the 94-96 Impala SS because it had an extraordinary level of performance and its MSRP was actually pretty good. This new 'SS' isn't quite there yet in the performance department, maybe if it had the power numbers of the 94-96 and had the rear wheels driving it. Bottom line is if the thing stickers close to 30 grand its gonna need to sell at less than 25 in the showroom most likely for it to move. No one is gonna spend 28-30 grand on a Chevy when there are so many upmarket cars available around 30 grand.

    I'm not opposed to the SS Impala....it just should be more value priced to reflect Chevy's true pecking order in the marketplace.
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    b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    This is the first time I have been to the "future vehicles" area.
    Now I know why posts are so few in the "sedans" section.
    All the regulars are in here arguing with each other.
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    b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I understand the '04 Impala will have a real climate control system with digital readout.

    What took you so long, Bob?
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    jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Some nice pictures of the new '04 Impala SS:

    http://www.edmunds.com/future/2004/chevrolet/impala/100086195/pho- - - - - - - - - - - tos.html?tid=edmunds.f.review.vdpheaderphoto..0.Chevrolet*

    Dare I say the side panels resemble the 1996 model. It's a real shame it didn't get the new 3800 Series III engine with 260 ponies ('04 Pontiac GTP), instead of the outdated 3800 Series II motor.
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Let's see. There are rumors that the Marauder is on its last legs. And what colour did it come in at first? ONLY black.

    So what is Chevy doing to the SS? You guessed it.

    I bet 2004 Grand Prix GTP's come in white. I know Mazda6's do.
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