I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

andre1969

Does anyone know a good way to tell a '66 from a '67 at a glance?

There's not much difference, but the '66 has a more blacked-out grille, that's divided up into little squares. The '67 has grille inserts that are chromed, and has a diagonal, diamond pattern.

In back, the '66 has round backup lights in the bumper, and wide taillights that vaguely suggest an Impala, with three across, three bulbs most likely, but each of the three divided into three slim horizontal strips, for an overall 9x9 pattern. The '67 has rectangular backup lights in the bumper, and the taillights aren't as full-width, more Bel-Air like, two across, each divided into two horizontal strips, for a 2x2 pattern.

I also remember a different taillight pattern, that was kind of delta-shaped, like what Dodge was doing in the late 60's, but I think that was just on a cheaper model, like maybe the '66 Tempest? Probably just one bulb on each side.

fezo

I'm amazed at how low your estimate on the value is but agree with the logic. You could pour money into them all day. It was a fun toy back then.

andre1969

within about a 5 minute period, I passed an '83-86 T-bird, red, in nice shape, then an '82-86 Bonneville, sort of an off-white/cream color, also in nice shape, and then a gray 1990-92 Caddy Brougham, missing its wheelcovers and with the front bumper bent slightly upward, giving the front-end a bit of a sneer. Lemko would have wept.

fezo

With 13 hours to go the Adenauer has cracked $10K and made it up to $10,900. Makes me wonder about all those guys who would put them up for like $30K. No bids I would guess...

I sent the listing to my brother who said "Nah, it's an automatic."

fintail

Was yours a manual? If it was, I have to guess it wasn't fun to shift.

I think the auto used in those was a Borg-Warner unit...I think they were durable enough, if maybe unrefined. The MB-designed auto in my fintail is pretty clunky, but I suspect some of that comes from it not having a torque converter.

Mr_Shiftright

It's really not "my" estimate. Buyers set the price of classic cars, and that's what they've been saying about the Adenauer for decades....$10K--$20K if you want to sell it, ask $30K if you want to keep it and fool the wife that you tried to sell it.

I think one ride around the block and you'd say "thanks but no thanks". You get lots of looks and thumbs up, and maybe that's worth $20K for sure, but the "driving experience" leaves a lot to be desired. Of course, if you like that kind of "slow tank" feeling, might just be your ticket. I wouldn't try any tricks in it though.

fezo

Mine was a four on the column. I loved it. Didn't know any better at the time. Compared to a modern clutch this was like trying to drive a house but at the time the alternative was my mom's 66 Biscayne and that clutch was no better.

fintail

I've only ever driven a column shift manual on a 68 Fairlane my dad picked up in the mid 90s...the 3 on the tree combined with with manual steering and manual brakes in a car that didn't feel as light as it looked (relative to larger models) was not a relaxing driving experience. I was only about 17 when he had it too, that couldn't have helped.

fezo

Clutches back then were real pieces of work. Driving a full sized Ford from that era with no power assist is no fun. My dad had a 70 Ford Custom with no power steering and no power brakes. It was a real workout to drive! He had a 71 Galaxie 500 with the power and if you sneezed you'd drive off the road. There was no middle ground with Ford in those days.

I've never forgiven my older brother who at 17 thought the clutch on my grandfather's old 49 Buick was too hard. As a result my folks sold it for $50. Dang!

fintail

I remember the clutch on that Fairlane was iffy, I would slip it a lot. I think it was out of adjustment though. That car was a beast to drive, but my dad with his old school tendencies grew fond of it. It was a ca. 70K mile car he bought out of an estate for something like $600. He drove it for awhile and flipped it...didn't make much, but it was a hobby for him. At the same time he had a very clean 60 Ford Country Sedan, a photogenic red and white car bought for $300 because the owner couldn't get it started. It had a coil problem...easy fix, and the big old 352 fired right up. He used it as a daily driver and loved it. He then randomly decided to sell it and regretted that from then on. It sold about 4 hours after he put it on the market, and made a decent profit.

I remember that overboosted steering on my 66 Galaxie. I also remember how stiff it would get when that thing would stall, which was too often.

lemko

Saw a television commercial for a movie called "The Hangover" and it featured a Mercedes convertible similar to this one:

lemko

...black 1965 Plymouth Barracuda outside a body shop on Oxford Avenue near Cottman in NE Philly.

Mr_Shiftright

This one is more modern than the ones I'm used to seeing.

Similar to this photo:

fezo

The things i remember about clutches back then is you;d never come close to the 200K you might get out of a clutch now but when you had to replace one on that 66 Biscayne it ran $29.

fintail

I think those were sold new in Canada too, probably where most in the states come from.

fintail

I remember when my dad sold the Fairlane, the clutch was starting to act up...I want to say some bearing was failing. A guy who drove it whined a lot about this...but the next potential buyer bought the car at the asking price. I am sure a clutch job on a 289 3 speed isn't tough.

fintail

I see that car is located at a well known dealer. That's a later 280SE cabrio, worth good money.

Mr_Shiftright

You could do that clutch in 1.5 hours while eating a sandwich with one hand and watching TV.

Jack up car -- 10 min
Remove 4 driveshaft bolts, unhook. 5 min
Remove two trans. mount bolts, drop to ground 10 min
Remove shift rods, clutch rod, and and clutch fork by pulling a few cotter pins 10 min
Remove bell housing bolts 5 min
Yank out little transmission 1 min
4 pressure plate bolts 2 min

Your done. 43 minutes out, maybe 40 minutes in.

toomanyfumes

When I was a teenager I ran parts and delivery for my cousin's auto body shop. Shop truck was an early 70's F100 with manual steering with 1/4 turn of slop, manual brakes and a three on the tree. At least once a day the shifter would jam up, usually in traffic, and I'd have to crawl under the truck and work the shifting linkage until it freed. I ended up really hating that truck...

fintail

Reminds me of the 60 Ford wagon my dad had at the same time as the Fairlane. The rear end started howling, so he decided to simply swap it out. He knew a guy who had a non-op 70 Country Squire, with what I guess was a 9" rear end - he bought it for like $50 and changed it himself. Removal from the donor car, removal of the dying original unit, and replacement was done in an afternoon. He was pretty handy at crazy things like that, and refused to take those old cars to a shop for anything but machine shop work.

andys120

On the same ten mile or so drive I saw the following...

-Late 60's-early 70's small-bumper/big tail light MGB-GT, BRG and in very nice shape. Back then sports cars came even smaller but this MG coupe was dwarfed by a smallish Kia (Spectra?) next to it.

-Volvo 1800E, the early 70's fuel-injected version of the Volvo Coupe popularly known as the P1800, in good condition, red with nice chrome and apparently in use as a regular driver, a guy was unloading photography equipment from it. Like most 60s designs the styling has held up well.

Mr_Shiftright

You can certainly use old Volvo P1800s as everyday drivers, but parking them on the street with that vulnerable and unobtainium front grillework---I dunno---in ten minutes your car can go from nice to nasty, and a long road back to normalcy. At least with an MGB you can replace the grill with one phone call and two day UPS. Also the Volvo overdrive is a devil to work on, but a nice thing to have.

explorerx4

a white 50's jagUar convertible with the black top up.
behind me in traffic today, a few cars back, a light blue volvo 240.

fintail

I saw a showroom looking second-gen Olds Aurora today, grey with factory chrome wheels.

lemko

...slightly customized light yellow 1947 Ford Tudor sedan.

Mr_Shiftright

Yours for a mere $275--400K

NEW BABY ROLLS

explorerx4

mid 70's big grand prix, single headlight per side, ugly butterscotch.
gunmetal volvo 240 wagon, flush headlights, as opposed to the blue sedan i saw yesterday which had quad round lights.
early 90's white 911 convertible, no whale tail!

fintail

Might be better to buy a barely used Phantom - better posing opportunities. But as the gap between the haves and have nots grows, there is an expanding market for those things I'm sure.

oregonboy

Surely you meant dual round headlights. I don't recall Volvo 240 series ever having quad, round lights, (although Saab did )

Oops... never mind.

fintail

Not Grand...just minus a letter

I think I have seen this before...but a good name for a car anyway

I don't think I have ever seen one of these before

What does this "commemorate"? The death of good taste?

"The True Meaning of Luxury"

Lemko-mobile

"Classic Car"...but I will admit the condition looks amazing

Big red...big weird expensive red

If this marque returns, I hope it is more durable

"Extremely Rare Classic"

If you like blue, this is for you

He's baaack

Weird opera windows...never seen those before

"attractively styled"...well I guess the top half is ok

Camry's dad

"the power and force of the USSR"

Gem's grandpa

Tikicar

Mr_Shiftright

That Russian GAZ engine looks a lot like a Volvo!

hpmctorque

The '83 New Yorker Fifth Avenue is appealing, in an odd sort of way.

The '79 Datsun 210 would be more appealing with a 4-speed manual.

andys120

1961 Cadillac/ S62- It is very unique in that it has wrap-around glass in the back.

The claim of uniqueness is bogus, the wraparound glass in the back was the default set-up for full-sized GM 4doors from 1959-62. I estimate roughly 2 of every 3 were so equipped. :mad:

andre1969

Actually, for a Cadillac that wraparound style is fairly rare. Most of them were the 6-window style, like this...


In the Series 62, they built 26,216 of the 6W style, and only 4700 of the 4W style, which had the wraparound rear window. In the DeVille line, they built 26,415 6W, and 4847 4W

The 4W style was a lot more popular in 1962, but it was also revised with a more formal, attractive C-pillar...


The 4W wraparound style really doesn't work very well on the '61 Caddy. It's too rounded off, in contrast to the angular, linear look of the rest of the car. I can see why it wasn't very popular. In addition to the Caddy, I think only the Buick Electra and Olds 98 still had that wraparound style on the 4-door hardtops. Chevy and Pontiac went to a more formal look with a thicker C-pillar, and I think the LeSabre and Olds 88 did as well.

Edit: Here's a pic of a 1961 Buick Invicta, with the thicker C-pillar. So I'm pretty sure then, that the LeSabre used a similar treatment.

Mr_Shiftright

Those 60s ads are interesting---diamonds, gold, ball gowns. A far cry from vinyl tops and fake landau bars and the cheesy interiors of later Cads.

explorerx4

here in ct, there are many old saab's and volvo's still tooling around.
i saw a volvo wagon yesterday that may have been one of those with a ford 5.0 transplant in it.

explorerx4

'Not Grand', so the difference besides the black grille is what?

'Lemko-mobile' seems more like an Andre-mobile.

'Big Red'. i like that car, price is stupid, don't go too far to the right when pulling into the driveway.

'Extremely Rare Classic'. Sad, from a gararge to a trailer park in only a couple of years.

'He's baaack'. I didn't even have to look!

fintail

I thought I would see a lot of old cars out on a sunny holiday weekend Sunday. I didn't see much today - restored Squareback, nice W113 230SL, red 356, early Mazda 929, and a couple of Ferraris.

andre1969

I always thought the Buick Gran Sport back then had a 455, bucket seats, and a floor shift, but I guess you still had to pay extra for all that. So I guess the car was basically like a Pontiac Grand Am, Laguna S3, or Cutlass Salon, where you might get some badges, some blackout trim (or in the case of the Grand Am and Laguna a different front-end), probably a firmer suspension, maybe bigger tires, and a slightly nicer interior. But if you wanted anything resembling performance, like a big engine, floor shift, bucket seats, etc, you still had to pay more for it.

Lemko used to have a 1985 5th Ave, that he gave to his brother years ago, who still has it, although I think it's pretty ragged out now. They're decent cars, tough and sturdy, and do a good job hiding their Volare underpinnings I think.

I really like that '60 Dodge Polara, but yeah, the price is ridiculous! I guess being a convertible it's rare, and having cross-ram makes it even rarer, but still, that price is way out of my league (and I'd guess, out of the seller's mind!) Also, I hate the fact that it has crank windows. I know that's a petty nitpick, but I've decided that if I ever get another convertible, I want it to have power windows! My '67 Catalina just has crank windows, and it's too big for me to easily reach across to the passenger side. I guess I didn't mind it so much when I first got that car. The top mechanism didn't work, so I had to put the top down or lift it up manually. And since I was already out of the car to do that, I didn't mind walking to the passenger side and putting down the windows. But now that the power is fixed, it's annoying. Plus, I've been mostly driving cars with power windows since 1998 now, so I guess I've gotten a bit spoiled. :P

Funny, but when I saw fintail's "He's baaaaaack" comment, my first thought was, watch it be that overpriced Olds 98 with the Buick mag wheels and the greasy looking undercarriage! :shades:

fintail

Have seen a few oddities today - RR Phantom parked on the street in a nice area, Porsche 356 Cabrio, Morgan in tan and brown - must be 70s. Stopped in at a high end used dealer - they had a Morgan Aero 8, a Spyker, an odd SEMA Pontiac G6, and a VW Golf "R28" made by a magazine a few years ago, among other cars.

oregonboy

So, I was curious about the VW "R28". I Googled it and found this story:

MotorTrend project car

fintail

That's exactly the one. IIRC they want 30K for it now.

magnette

Went to a local car show in North London - really quite a good turnout, everything from BMW Isetta bubblecars to a Foden four-axle lorry. I'll post some pictures in due course, but the variety of cars there was quite amazing - not just the usual range of MGB's or TR's and Morris Minors - although there were plenty of those. They made a big thing about the 50th anniversary of the Mini - probably the most influential car in European terms since WW2 - and of course this is also the 50th birthday for the Triumph Herald and the Ford Anglia 105E, both of which are still well represented in everyday use.
Oldest car there was a 1909 Daimler, and the usual makes were represented - including about half a dozen Borgwards, for example, but the emphasis was on ordinary cars, rather than real exotics.
I did manage to buy three issues of "The Motor" magazine which I didn't already have - one from 1958 (the road test in that was the last of the Ford Popular 103's ie pre-war styling and transverse leaf suspension,) together with London Motor Show special issues for 1957 and 1948 - the latter was particularly rare and I was pleased to be able to get it.

fintail

I recently bought a copy of the Spring 1960 Autocar road test compilations, which as you probably know is a collection of road tests of the previous few months. I bought this because it has one of the earliest tests of a fintail, their 21 Aug 1959 test of a 220SE, for which they wrote almost nothing but positive words.

The big automobilia shop in Vancouver has a small selection of old British magazines, mostly Autocar and Motor. Some of them are prewar, which were fascinating for me because of the classified ads. They wanted $15-20 CDN apiece for these - I don't know if that's a good price or not. I have a pile of 60s Autocars I bought when I was younger, at a swap meet for very little money.

lemko

...gray 1956 DeSoto Fireflite leaving Exit 26 of the PA Turnpike.

boomchek

You can pick up one of the very first Road & Tracks there too, in B&W I think.

I forgot to mention but a few weeks ago, during one of the first sunny weekends, I spotted a guy driving a mint shape Messerschmidt same as this one

I spotted it about 2 blocks away as it crossed the street we were driving on, and I sped up to catch up to it. Althought I never paid attention to vehicles like this, somehow, I think from all the chats here on Edmunds it's name got subconsciously implanted into my head.

I told my wife as we were approaching it from a few hundred feet "Look it's a Messerschmidt!" She's like "what's a messerschmidt?" I said "that is!"

As we pulled up right beside it, my wife was trying to read the name badge on the side of it, and said "I can't even read the name of it, and you knew from half a block away what it was"

What can I say you married a car nerd. I told her. :shades:

fintail

Oh yeah...it's also the 50th anniversary of the fintail.

fintail

I don't think I have ever seen a Kabinenroller actually driving in traffic. Must be fun for the driver to pretend he's in an old fighter plane.

The oddest thing I ever saw driving in Van was a 50s Fiat Multipla, it sounded like a hyper chainsaw.

berri

...gray 1956 DeSoto Fireflite

Not a two tone or tri-tone? I think I actually liked the 55 better, but really most 55-57 cars were decent lookers. I think the instrument panel designers should go back and take a look at the interiors on a lot of these since its one area where I think a lot of today's cars come up short.

magnette

I have just re-read my post about the magazines, and actually I mistyped one - it was the 49 Motor Show issue, not 48 (the latter is really sought after as it was the first proper motor show after the war, and a whole range of great cars were launched there - ie XK120).
You can pick up odd issues of Motor and Autocar for very little really (maybe £1/£2 each), they turn up at swapmeets and even in ordinary charity shops etc, but of course when you have a load of them already it is more difficult to find ones you don't already have. The two magazines merged in the late eighties, and it's just Autocar now, so Motor - which I bought every week until it merged - is a bit rarer as a result, although no more expensive. If I started buying the backnumbers of Autocar as well I would have to find a new house - probably on my own...