Many people don't know there is a difference between a timing belt and a drive belt. A timing belt is inside the engine and not accessable from the outside. It is connected to the crankshaft and the valve train. The drive belt is the serpetine belt on the outside that drives the water pump, smog pump, power steering, A/C, and Altinator. The drive belt is attached to the crankshaft on the out side of the motor. While researching the Timing Belt I have seen people discussing both in the same post, not knowing there is a difference between the two. Both need replacing.
Did I get a surprise. This engine noise is the same problem that had been found in 2003 Pilots. In fact it has a safety recall in 2002 from the NHTSA under #02V226000. The Honda company knows about it and it's still occuring. Why? Are not safety recalls supposed to be resolved? It says in the recall that this can cause your motor to stop running, causing an accident. Honda knows about it, not something new, but an old problem reported by the NHTSA in 2002. I am changing my opinion of the HONDA CO.
I remember there was a recall for the timing belts rubbing against something and eventually breaking. Seems that was on the 3.5 engine only, And only on early level 2003 and models before that .
Before you get too upset with Honda, find out what the problem really is and how they solve it. No one will know if it is the same problem, as the one you referred to, or if it is something different, until the repair is complete.
Seems unlikely that Honda would "deliberately" continue to do something that would come back to bite them.
I must have gotten one of those bad EGR valves, as well. I also have a 2003 Pilot (bought new in Aug 2003). My tranny tried to lock up the torque convertor at 37k miles. They said it was a bad EGR valve, but replacing it didn't fix the problem, so they replaced the whole tranny. I knew that they had problems with the trannys in the earlier models, but this is the first I heard about the EGR valve being the main culprit. The only other issue I have with my Pilot is a rattling noise from the dash. They've tried to fix it 3 different times, and each time the noise came back in about a week or two. I still highly recommend the Pilot to friends, and would definitely buy another one.
That's why I said I got a surprise. It doesn't make any sense why Honda would not resolve a problem like this. What ever it is, Honda is stepping up and fixing it and that is a big + for them. I still like Honda and their cars.
Symptoms with the EGR valve were; the tranny chattering and not wanting to lock up the torque converter.
From what I think I understand, from the explanation given by the service department. The Exhaust Gas Recirculator (EGR) valve is part of the EPA Emissions group of devices. It's function is to help the engine run cleaner. It is supposed to perform a function when the Torque Converter locks.
If it doesn't perform properly the engine begins to skip and miss rather violently.
The torque converter would not lock under those circumstances. There were some very slight variations in RPM, that I attributed to the torque Converter attempting to lock. Giving more throttle would just allow the car to reach a higher speed before the mess started. Heavy throttle to 60 mph and letting off the throttle would allow the Torque converter to lock, according to the tachometer. However, the slightest throttle would start the bucking and chattering all over again until more throttle was given resulting, in a tranny downshift.
In any condition and at any RPM, other than a locked or locking torque converter, the engine ran smoothly. That is why I thought it was a tranny problem.
The really strange thing is that the computer did not log any errors, and Honda tech support were no help to the technician. Eventually a service writer at the dealership remembered the problem, from 2003-2005 mostly, and it showed up at 20K+ miles. Mine didn't show up as early as most due to not driving as much as most folks.
Seemed to be only the 2003s that were affected by a bad batch of valves from a vender. Apparently it was a very low % that gave problems. Seems it would have affected any of the Honda/Acura products using that engine.
I don't understand, why Honda Tech Support didn't have that problem in a data base. :confuse:
Thanks for clearing up some terminology for me, and for the explanation of the EGR valve. My problem was a lot of chattering, and the car wanting to go forward, even with the gear in park. It happened when I was pulling out of the driveway. I immediately had the car towed to the dealership, hopefully to prevent any damage to the tranny. I never got it higher than about 10 mph, so I don't know what it would have done at higher speeds. Like I said before, they did suspect the EGR valve, which I had no idea what it did until your explanation. I realize that the torque converter locking up is a normal thing which needs to occur in order to prevent slippage and maintain power, and I misused the term "lock up". It seems like my problem was the torque converter applying more torque than it was supposed to...or at least that's what I understood from what the Honda mechanic told me.
Here is how a torque converter (TC) works, in layman terms. Which is the only way I can understand it.
With a manual transmission, the clutch sits between the engine and the transmission. When the clutch is engaged (foot off the pedal) the engine and tranny are connected. When the clutch is disengaged (pedal depressed), the connection between the engine and tranny is no longer effective, so the tranny can be shifted and the engine is no longer connected to the drive train.
In an auto tranny, the TC takes the place of the clutch. The TC has a shaft with several impellers (blades). The exposed end of the shaft slips into splines located in the engine's flywheel. The other end of the shaft, with the impellers, is inside the TC. The TC contains transmission fluid. The impellers are turning inside that fluid. At idle, not a lot happens. As the RPMs rise the swirling fluid begins to force the "Output" of the TC to drive the transmission. If the tranny is in gear, the car begins to move. The higher the RPM the more pressure, and the car moves faster and the tranny starts doing it's thing.
In days of yore, that was it! There was always some slipping of the TC and its swirling fluids. Resulting in poorer mileage. In modern cars, something inside the TC actually LOCKS the TC and tranny together. And the drive between the Engine and Tranny is more solid, similar to the way a clutch does. This generally only happens in the overdrive gear on most cars. Such as 5th gear with Honda's
You can observe the TC operation by watching the tach. Say you are in 4 gear at 40 mph with a steady foot. A light pressure in the throttle will cause the RPM to rise slightly even before the car begins to gain speed. The TC wasn't locked and was allowed to slip more resulting in more engine rpm.
At 60 mph when the car is in Overdrive and the TC is Locked up, a light additional pressure on the throttle won't cause the rpm to rise instantly because the engine and tranny are locked together and nothing is slipping. The rpm will rise only as the car gains speed. If you press a little too hard you will see the tach jump 300-500 RPM. That is the TC unlocking and the drive is now depending on the swirling fluids. A bit more throttle and the tranny will likely downshift to a lower gear resulting in another 800-1000 gain in rpm.
You can really observe this on a long up hill with Cruise Control activated.
I just picked up a 08 Pilot last night. Got a really good deal ($21900) for VP 2WD. Found out car been on lot for like 2 months so the battery is kind of jumpy? Dealer said it should be ok in few days. The dashboard/console, the pointers are moving/flashing around - does that sound like a battery problem or a electrical issue that I need to bring it back to dealer ?
If the battery went dead on the lot for some reason, and left that way in this cold weather, it should be replaced with a new one. You bought a new car and deserve a new battery.
All those little Icons around the speedometer should settle down within just a few seconds after cranking.
The car start up fine. While driving, the 2 icons (wrench shape and the TMPS) pop-up, at same time all the gauges jump back and forth. Sound like electrical problem?
Ok, this might seem silly, but perhaps you are calculating the mileage incorrectly.
Do the following: fill-up, reset your trip odemeter, go for a long ride on the highway (200 or 300 miles). Now pull off the highway and refuel. Divide the mileage on the trip odometer by the gallons pumped and see how you do.
Always calculate it as miles travelled per gallons pumped to replace what was consumed during the trip. (tip: the size of your gas tank will never factor into the calculation of MPG at all... it only affects how far you can ultimately travel on a tank. and hondas typically indicate low fuel level well well before the tank is empty).
Things to consider: possible dirty engine air filter, drastically under-inflated tires, lots of stop and go or heavy application of the throttle and braking.
Here's something else to consider. Since there are thousands of parts in a car and every single one of them must function properly (within certain specifications), it is amazing that cars don't breakdown all the time. If some or many parts (lets say engine parts, valves, rings, bearing, fuel injectors, EGR valves, etc) are within specification, but are operating at less than optimum condition, then there could be a significant effect on how that engine performs vs the engine that happened to all or many get optimum parts. Nothing shows up on the computer as out of specification, but the effects of the sum of those parts, could be noticeable such as two "exactly similar cars" could get different gas mileage in the same conditions. :confuse:
I have an annoying vibration coming from underneath my 2004 pilot ex 4wd. Noticed it over the past year or so but it only lasts for approx 2-4 seconds each time and not on a consistent basis. It will occur when revs are 1500-2000 and going approx 30 mph. It will stop if you accelerate. I have noticed many posts about this issue but no accurate diagnosis at this point-just many possible theories. latest on this annoyance?
Is it a vibration or a rattle?? I just noticed a soft rattle that is coming form a metal shield under the car near the drivers seat. It only happens for a second at around 1200 rpm.
The vibration problems were typically related to tires, or on some specific 4WDs, the drivelines, but those seem to occur at around 70 mph.
I just took a long road trip to go skiing in our Pilot (2006 EXL) loaded with a huge rooftop cargo box and averaged 18mpg in mixed driving city/highway going up and down mountains driving with a very heavy foot. Either there is something wrong with your Pilot or your calculations are wrong.
I have had a Suburban and a Sequoia and the Pilot gets far better mileage (yes I know it's smaller- but interior space wise not much than the Sequoia) and have been very pleased with the truck. No, it's not perfect and it's not an economy car, but it is very reasonable on fuel for it's level of function.
We picked my 2WD VP late Tuesday 2/19. Husband did test drive and notice weird blinking of the icons and gauges on main display. Sale guy checked w/ manager and came back and said it's temporary problem with cold weather - battery? - should go away in few days. Next day, I noticed the problem ocurring more frequent, called service and scheduled for Friday. This morning, service checked out car and said the controller cluster is defect, need to be replaced - easy fixed. I also found out car been lot for 2-3 months with 45 miles on it. Told manager I want a replacement as I feel I was sold a defective car. Management kept refusing, said they want me to give this car 2nd chance and if it happen again - we'll talk then. I was there 3 hours exchanging words with them about return car and upgrade to new 4WD that will arrive next week. I'm on their loaner so my current Pilot can be fixed. Dealer is 15 miles from where I lived so car now have 80 miles on it - still in new shape. Do you think what I asked for is reasonable? I just don't feel comfortable driving current pilot now that I know this. Dealer was really giving me a hard time this morning until mgr. on duty the day I bought my car came in and agreed for the upgrade exchange.
If the dealer agreed to the exchange then your problem is solved. Good for you!
From what you said, it appears to me that you bought the 2WD after you learned there was a problem with the display. I would have insisted that they fix that problem before completing the sale.
We didn't know it was defect. They told us a temporary battery issue being in cold weather. If I can go back, I would have not complete the sale. I feel as though they knew about the defect and purposely passed it on to us as a minor temp. effect on car. Anyone got dealer to exchange car within 1st week of purchase to different model?
That does not happen often, eventhough I agree with you that they sould have told you about the defect, I think you are fortunate that they are willing to do an exchange, just make sure the price is right on the 4WD.
The other day, while trying to park, I scrapped the alloy wheel rubbing it against the curb. It is scratched around the edge anda gash on the front face of the rim. Does anyone know how I can at least dress it up to make it look better.
It's a rattle sound as if something is loose but it does last for approx 2-3 seconds at a time. It only occurs between 1200-1800 rpm. The sound appears to come from under the front seat area.
Once you drive the vehicle off the lot it's yours. That is why they were so eager to get you to take it home befor trying to repair it. 45 miles, that's why nobody else wanted it. Sounds like you got lucky in returning it. They more than likely would have fixed the problem and it would have been good car.
omg I know this is years later but I am suffering so badly with start up on my 2006 pilot. its been to the repair 8 times and they cant find anything wrong. I am at my wits end and ready to sue, did you get anywhere back then and any advise pleeease
I just bought a Honda Pilot , in Feb 2008 , and i found so many issues with my Pilot. I have faxed Honda and the dealer, but i need to know my options and your suggestions.
Problem 1: 50 % of the Engine starts lead to a Loud Ting noise from the Engine.
Problem 2: The Driver Car Door doesn’t close properly unless extra force is applied.
Problem 3: There is periodic noise which comes from one of the wheels. The noise is easily hearable with open glasses, the PILOT needs to run few miles, before this noise starts coming.
Problem 4: I think there is a safety concern, on driving the vehicle at high speeds on an expressway. The vehicle sometimes shivers.
Please Suggest and help me. Does anyone else also have any kind of issues.
I have an 05 Pilot and just experienced the very same thing. I too was charged over $170. dollars to repair my wiring, I also thought it was a rip off. I have owned cars for 45 years and NEVER experienced anything like this. I was told the dealer sees this every year, I want to know why the Honda Pilot has this special wiring that draws mice / rats to eat just this specific piece of wiring?? I also would like to know if there's anything that can be done to stop it? PS: I live in west central Florida so the mice here love that Honda wiring as well.
I'll take a stab at some of thes, of course you should be working with your dealership on them:
Problem 1: sometimes with a new vehicle, the starter and the starter gears need a bit of time to wear in. I don't know exactly what you mean by "ting", but this may be it.
Problem 2: perhaps you're finding the cabin too air-tight to allow the trapped air to escape while you are trying to close the door.
Try leaving your ventillation control on "fresh" not "recirc" and closing the door slower -or-
Try turning the key to acc, lowering one window partially, closing your driver's door.
Did things get easier?
Problem 3: i wonder if your emergency brake is fully disengaging or brake pad sticking, or a wheel needs lubrication.
Problem 4: check for proper tire inflation - if they are under-inflated, this may be a problem. Take vehicle to a tire shop with proper equipment to have the tires road-force balanced if necessary. It's possible you have a bad tire, but more than likely, a tire balancing weight is off (wrong weight or wrong location or missing). I suppose it's also possible the alignment is off.
The Honda Dealer in my town is too busy , i got an appointment next week. The dealer availability for warranty repair is one of the thing i have started hating in honda.
I would keep you updated. Yes i talked to dealer i bought my pilot from and they told me that no 2 is not an issue, ie ur are 100 % correct
The 1 ting , is when the engine starts up in vibrates and touches some metal.
I've now owned 6 Hondas in my lifetime, that last two being Pilots. My current one is a 2006 (best damn car I've ever owned).
I got sick of being overcharged and hosed by my Honda Service Centers years ago and I go to my car wash place where they change the oil "religiously" every 3000 miles, check the fluids, tire pressure, and that's it - I made a BIG mistake of going to the dealer for my 15,000 mile service and for practically no more than my usual servicing I was charged $300.00, rather than my typically $29.00 (and no free car wash, either).
Except for serious or major repairs under warranty, recalls, etc., do you go back to your dealer for regular servicing?
I too own a 2006 Pilot. I had only the rear differential oil changed around the 15000 miles when the service minder prompted me to do so. But besides that, I am not sure what else should be done for a 15000 mile service. I am looking to my service minder to tell me and haven't seen anything yet, maybe the air filter (and cabin filter?) soon. So far I have taken it to the dealer (2 different ones) for the engine oil change and the recent rear differential oil change since their price is about $32 but when the time comes for filter change and minor things I think I'll be doing those myself.
Except for serious or major repairs under warranty, recalls, etc., do you go back to your dealer for regular servicing?
I have a 2007 Pilot with about 17,000 miles. I've never been back to the dealer for service, which means I've had no problems to be repaired and I choose not to use the dealer for routine maintenance.
When it comes to maintenance, I strictly follow the maintenance minder and owner's manual. But I have the work done by an independent garage located near my home. It's primarily a matter of convenience. The independent is much closer to my home and has better hours than the dealer. No appointment necessary. I suppose I save money too. Also, I feel good supporting a local business.
I am personally leery about having maintenance done by a car wash place. It's convenient, inexpensive and a way to get a free car wash, but . . . I'd be concerned that they would deal with my Honda generically and not put in the right kind of fluids. Doesn't matter what they use for topping off your windshield washer fluid. But what about your oil, brake fluid, transmission fluid, etc.? Do they have the right stuff, and if so, can they be relied upon to use the right stuff?
I have the same concern with independent shops, but I consider them to be generally more knowledgeable than car washes.
I believe that Honda dealers know best what your Honda needs and would be the least likely to screw it up. However, they generally charge higher prices and have a tendancy to do (or try to do) more than what is called for by the manufacturer (i.e., dealer recommended services). They then make you feel like you are doing the wrong thing by your car (and therefore by your family) when you refuse the costly extras and instead insist on sticking to what is called for by manufacturer (maintenance minder + owner's manual).
The bottom line is that convenience, cost and reliability are all factors to be taken into account when deciding where to have your car serviced.
I just bought a 2008 Honda Pilot EX. After a few days of driving I noticed the sloshing sound and some loud thuds when stopping and starting. When I took it back to the dealer they told me it was just the sound the Honda makes. They told me it was a manufacturers defect. I told them them it was unacceptable and wanted it fixed. I am awaiting further action but, I feel that even if it is a defect I want it fixed. I won't stop pushing until it's solved. If anyone has any more input please respond. We shoul'nt have to take these bogus answers!
My 2007 Pilot is reaching its 1st birthday and I wonder if I should bring it to the dealer's for a tire rotation.
The usual recommendation from the web is to rotate the tires at around 7,500 miles and mine has some less than 10,000. The manual however says I'd wait till the maintenance minder to show me the code -- not yet so far (except for the last oil change code months back) I don't really have a tire-related problem hoping to solve with this rotation but I wonder if it is best to do it now. Besides, my dealer gives me a free tank of gas for the 1st year whenever I visit them for a service...
Sloshing sound is most likely the fuel in the tank. Especially when stopping abruptly. Our 03 Pilot does it.
We get a "thunk" from the rear when changing direction and applying the brakes.
Back up and apply the brakes, and "thunk"!
Then move forward. It may "thunk" as it start moving. Or it may wait until the brakes are applied the first time. Then it is happy, until the brakes are applied in reverse again.
Something else that is annoying is the "scrapping" sound when very lightly applying the brakes, in reverse, after it has been sitting a day or so. This is especially true when the humidity is high. Both our Pilot and the 03 CR-V do it. I've concluded it is the light coat of rust that forms on the rotors while sitting. Never noticed it moving forward, although it may do it. But, after sitting, it most always needs to move backward before moving forward, as it is parked in a car port..
Once in a while there is a single "KNOCK" from the engine compartment when it first starts up in the morning, after sitting over night. Sound is similar to taping your knuckle on a wooden surface one time. Doesn't matter if the AC is on or not, and can't be duplicated until it is ready to do so on it's own.
Once in a while there is a slight odor after cranking a cold engine. Kind of sickening sweet like anti-freeze. It only last a few seconds. As the heater fan is always running on "Fresh air" intake, rather than recirculate, I'm thinking that may be a cold start odor from the exhaust,a light breeze is moving it toward the front of the car, and the fan is bringing it inside. Can't duplicate it, until it is ready to do so.
Please keep us informed concerning your "FIXES".
Now, on a lighter note. Our Pilot runs fine. At 65-70mph it delivers 24-26 mpg on the road, and 17-19 locally. It has adequate power when needed. At 30K+ miles the brakes and tires have about half their life left. On trips it is comfortable for driver and passengers. Even those in the 2nd row of seats have plenty of room. Visibility is good and the utility of space and towing is everything we "NEED". Of the 60+ vehicles we have owned, over the years, it is without a doubt, the most pleasing to operate.
Wish list:
>I wish there was a 7 pin electrical connector, from Honda, for towing a light weight camper.
>I wish it had 300 hp and got 40 MPG at 70-75 mph.
I used to rotate the tires with every other oil change. Back then oil changes were every 3,750 miles, going by the owner's manual. So I rotated the tires every 7,500 miles.
But on newer Hondas with maintenance minders, I've found that oil changes (at least in my case) are called for every 6,500 to 7,000 miles. So now I rotate the tires with every oil change. The independent shop I use rotates tires free of charge, if requested, when they perform other maintenance such as oil change. So it's a no-brainer.
You or the dealer may have missed the minder for rotation when it came on. It comes on with the oil change minder around the second oil change. I usually have mine rotated every 6000-7000 miles anyway. I bought road hazard warranty from the local Good Year shop when I bought the Pilot (about $60) and that covers rotate and balance. I am not sure if there is a mileage limit before one can buy that but if you are interested you may check it out by going online to Good Year's website and look for info on one of your local franchises. (I have an 06 Pilot and assuming your 07 has Good Year also, unfortunately I could not do that for my Accord since I couldn't find a Michelin dealer who would do that).
1.I was told that the loud noise on Engine start is due to ABS, the computer does some mechanical stuff , sometimes, resulting in noise. (Yesterday my engine started and then stoppd, with a thud .. i dont think the noise is due to ABS, i would have to wait till the problem repeats itself often)
2.the door is designed in that way by honda.
3.the backing plate was little bend and touching the roter, I dont know how can a new car has such an issue.the dealer repaired the backing plate.
4. They said the vibration was because of wheel balancing , they did that ... but the problem didnt go.
The New Issue:
Whenever my car goes over some bumps , i get some noise as if something is loose and that gets vibrated because of the bump.The mechanic said , its more or less impossible to find out from where that noise is coming.
1). There's nothing ABS related on engine start that I know of. Perhaps there's a loose heat shield on the exhaust manifold, or other exhaust part. The ABS may exhibit a noise when you start forward motion in the vehicle. There is an ABS self-test that some people hear and feel when initially moving out.
2). Having a tight interior is a good thing. Did you try the things I mentioned?
3). I think you aren't being realistic; the probability is, with something as complex as a vehicle, there may be issues that require attention post-sale. Any make, any model. But that's 1 down, only 3 to go. No wait, 4 to go now.
4). Did it improve at all? Did you check tire inflation? You may have to go to an independant tire store with a road-force balancing machine. It's possible you have a bad tire. If you are so dis-satisfied, perhaps you can try another dealer.
I'd do some sleuthing of your own. Open the hood, and have someone competent listen to the engine compartment on an engine start to locate the noise. Close your door more slowly with the air handler on fresh, or crack a window slightly until the door seals have seen a little more use. Have someone quote road-force balancing the tires, or see if another dealer is more sympathetic.
For the newest issue: have someone else drive while you ride in the back. Try to localize the issue. Make sure that your spare tire, scissor jack and tools are secured properly.
Thanks a ton for your reply, Yes 2 is not an issue, ie with open windows the door closes pretty smoothly.
I would do whatever you suggested , would go to another dealer. I already did the debugging for the new noise. i had checked all loose stuff and sat in the back .. the noise comes from under the body.
I will try to find out another dealer, as you suggested. Once again , thanks for ur excellent comments.
Hi, I just leased a 2008 pilot VP. After about a week, i decided to check the tire pressures. I noticed that all the tires had about 40 PSI. I believe the recommended pressure is 32. Could there be some underlying reason why the dealer put in 40 psi? The only thing i can think of is that it may increase fuel economy, but while sacrificing ride comfort. What do you guys think? :confuse:
Since no good replies have come your way yet I'll start with the obvious! I was wondering if you checked the pressure when the tires were cold or not. They are supposed to be cold when measured, checking after a good drive will result in higher reading. You probably knew this already, but just in case..
Cars are shipped from the manufacturer with over-inflated tires to prevent flat-spotting as the cars sit around in various lots.
The dealer was supposed to air down the tire to the recommended psi listed on the tire placard on the A pillar or in the glove box.
Makes you wonder what else the dealer overlooked or skipped in performing the new car prep eh?
Unfortunately, dealers forget to air down the tires on new cars all the time. Salespeople rarely check the tire pressures when they demo a car and then they wonder why the potential buyer walked across the street to find a smoother riding car.
>"The dealer didn't do anything.....And that's the problem.....Makes you wonder what else the dealer overlooked or skipped in performing the new car prep eh?"
Bingo !
Wouldn't hurt to let the service manager and his boss, know about it! :mad:
Cars are shipped from the manufacturer with over-inflated tires to prevent flat-spotting as the cars sit around in various lots.
The dealer was supposed to air down the tire to the recommended psi listed on the tire placard on the A pillar or in the glove box.
Very interesting. I didn't know that. Looks like the dealers have made some over-adjustments in my case, because the last few vehicles I took delivery of had grossly underinflated tires. Two Hondas (from different dealers) and one BMW.
I can't recall ever reading a post around here where someone took delivery of a new car and all the tires were under inflated. Occasionally now you'll see reports where the tire pressure monitor sensor light is on because of a low tire (often the spare).
It is hard to miss the minder, right -- because it won't go away until you do something.
Anyway I had the tires rotated and balanced on Monday. Then I went to a local Goodyear shop and found they have a $40 rotation/balancing plan -- even if people coming in with 10K~15K miles on the tires already. Thanks for your suggestion. The road hazard deal is about $10 per tire though.
Comments
Before you get too upset with Honda, find out what the problem really is and how they solve it. No one will know if it is the same problem, as the one you referred to, or if it is something different, until the repair is complete.
Seems unlikely that Honda would "deliberately" continue to do something that would come back to bite them.
Kip
I must have gotten one of those bad EGR valves, as well. I also have a 2003 Pilot (bought new in Aug 2003). My tranny tried to lock up the torque convertor at 37k miles. They said it was a bad EGR valve, but replacing it didn't fix the problem, so they replaced the whole tranny. I knew that they had problems with the trannys in the earlier models, but this is the first I heard about the EGR valve being the main culprit. The only other issue I have with my Pilot is a rattling noise from the dash. They've tried to fix it 3 different times, and each time the noise came back in about a week or two. I still highly recommend the Pilot to friends, and would definitely buy another one.
Symptoms with the EGR valve were; the tranny chattering and not wanting to lock up the torque converter.
From what I think I understand, from the explanation given by the service department. The Exhaust Gas Recirculator (EGR) valve is part of the EPA Emissions group of devices. It's function is to help the engine run cleaner. It is supposed to perform a function when the Torque Converter locks.
If it doesn't perform properly the engine begins to skip and miss rather violently.
The torque converter would not lock under those circumstances. There were some very slight variations in RPM, that I attributed to the torque Converter attempting to lock. Giving more throttle would just allow the car to reach a higher speed before the mess started. Heavy throttle to 60 mph and letting off the throttle would allow the Torque converter to lock, according to the tachometer. However, the slightest throttle would start the bucking and chattering all over again until more throttle was given resulting, in a tranny downshift.
In any condition and at any RPM, other than a locked or locking torque converter, the engine ran smoothly. That is why I thought it was a tranny problem.
The really strange thing is that the computer did not log any errors, and Honda tech support were no help to the technician. Eventually a service writer at the dealership remembered the problem, from 2003-2005 mostly, and it showed up at 20K+ miles. Mine didn't show up as early as most due to not driving as much as most folks.
Seemed to be only the 2003s that were affected by a bad batch of valves from a vender. Apparently it was a very low % that gave problems. Seems it would have affected any of the Honda/Acura products using that engine.
I don't understand, why Honda Tech Support didn't have that problem in a data base. :confuse:
Kip
Thanks for clearing up some terminology for me, and for the explanation of the EGR valve. My problem was a lot of chattering, and the car wanting to go forward, even with the gear in park. It happened when I was pulling out of the driveway. I immediately had the car towed to the dealership, hopefully to prevent any damage to the tranny. I never got it higher than about 10 mph, so I don't know what it would have done at higher speeds. Like I said before, they did suspect the EGR valve, which I had no idea what it did until your explanation. I realize that the torque converter locking up is a normal thing which needs to occur in order to prevent slippage and maintain power, and I misused the term "lock up". It seems like my problem was the torque converter applying more torque than it was supposed to...or at least that's what I understood from what the Honda mechanic told me.
G
With a manual transmission, the clutch sits between the engine and the transmission. When the clutch is engaged (foot off the pedal) the engine and tranny are connected. When the clutch is disengaged (pedal depressed), the connection between the engine and tranny is no longer effective, so the tranny can be shifted and the engine is no longer connected to the drive train.
In an auto tranny, the TC takes the place of the clutch. The TC has a shaft with several impellers (blades). The exposed end of the shaft slips into splines located in the engine's flywheel. The other end of the shaft, with the impellers, is inside the TC. The TC contains transmission fluid. The impellers are turning inside that fluid. At idle, not a lot happens. As the RPMs rise the swirling fluid begins to force the "Output" of the TC to drive the transmission. If the tranny is in gear, the car begins to move. The higher the RPM the more pressure, and the car moves faster and the tranny starts doing it's thing.
In days of yore, that was it! There was always some slipping of the TC and its swirling fluids. Resulting in poorer mileage. In modern cars, something inside the TC actually LOCKS the TC and tranny together. And the drive between the Engine and Tranny is more solid, similar to the way a clutch does. This generally only happens in the overdrive gear on most cars. Such as 5th gear with Honda's
You can observe the TC operation by watching the tach. Say you are in 4 gear at 40 mph with a steady foot. A light pressure in the throttle will cause the RPM to rise slightly even before the car begins to gain speed. The TC wasn't locked and was allowed to slip more resulting in more engine rpm.
At 60 mph when the car is in Overdrive and the TC is Locked up, a light additional pressure on the throttle won't cause the rpm to rise instantly because the engine and tranny are locked together and nothing is slipping. The rpm will rise only as the car gains speed. If you press a little too hard you will see the tach jump 300-500 RPM. That is the TC unlocking and the drive is now depending on the swirling fluids. A bit more throttle and the tranny will likely downshift to a lower gear resulting in another 800-1000 gain in rpm.
You can really observe this on a long up hill with Cruise Control activated.
Kip
All those little Icons around the speedometer should settle down within just a few seconds after cranking.
Kip
Kip
Do the following: fill-up, reset your trip odemeter, go for a long ride on the highway (200 or 300 miles). Now pull off the highway and refuel. Divide the mileage on the trip odometer by the gallons pumped and see how you do.
Always calculate it as miles travelled per gallons pumped to replace what was consumed during the trip. (tip: the size of your gas tank will never factor into the calculation of MPG at all... it only affects how far you can ultimately travel on a tank. and hondas typically indicate low fuel level well well before the tank is empty).
Things to consider: possible dirty engine air filter, drastically under-inflated tires, lots of stop and go or heavy application of the throttle and braking.
Joe
The vibration problems were typically related to tires, or on some specific 4WDs, the drivelines, but those seem to occur at around 70 mph.
Joe
I have had a Suburban and a Sequoia and the Pilot gets far better mileage (yes I know it's smaller- but interior space wise not much than the Sequoia) and have been very pleased with the truck. No, it's not perfect and it's not an economy car, but it is very reasonable on fuel for it's level of function.
tom
From what you said, it appears to me that you bought the 2WD after you learned there was a problem with the display. I would have insisted that they fix that problem before completing the sale.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Problem 1: 50 % of the Engine starts lead to a Loud Ting noise from the Engine.
Problem 2: The Driver Car Door doesn’t close properly unless extra force is applied.
Problem 3: There is periodic noise which comes from one of the wheels. The noise is easily hearable with open glasses, the PILOT needs to run few miles, before this noise starts coming.
Problem 4: I think there is a safety concern, on driving the vehicle at high speeds on an expressway. The vehicle sometimes shivers.
Please Suggest and help me. Does anyone else also have any kind of issues.
PS: I live in west central Florida so the mice here love that Honda wiring as well.
Good luck if you still have your Honda
Problem 1: sometimes with a new vehicle, the starter and the starter gears need a bit of time to wear in. I don't know exactly what you mean by "ting", but this may be it.
Problem 2: perhaps you're finding the cabin too air-tight to allow the trapped air to escape while you are trying to close the door.
Try leaving your ventillation control on "fresh" not "recirc" and closing the door slower -or-
Try turning the key to acc, lowering one window partially, closing your driver's door.
Did things get easier?
Problem 3: i wonder if your emergency brake is fully disengaging or brake pad sticking, or a wheel needs lubrication.
Problem 4: check for proper tire inflation - if they are under-inflated, this may be a problem. Take vehicle to a tire shop with proper equipment to have the tires road-force balanced if necessary. It's possible you have a bad tire, but more than likely, a tire balancing weight is off (wrong weight or wrong location or missing). I suppose it's also possible the alignment is off.
Did you speak with your dealership about 1-4?
The dealer availability for warranty repair is one of the thing i have started hating in honda.
I would keep you updated. Yes i talked to dealer i bought my pilot from and they told me that no 2 is not an issue, ie ur are 100 % correct
The 1 ting , is when the engine starts up in vibrates and touches some metal.
I got sick of being overcharged and hosed by my Honda Service Centers years ago and I go to my car wash place where they change the oil "religiously" every 3000 miles, check the fluids, tire pressure, and that's it - I made a BIG mistake of going to the dealer for my 15,000 mile service and for practically no more than my usual servicing I was charged $300.00, rather than my typically $29.00 (and no free car wash, either).
Except for serious or major repairs under warranty, recalls, etc., do you go back to your dealer for regular servicing?
I have a 2007 Pilot with about 17,000 miles. I've never been back to the dealer for service, which means I've had no problems to be repaired and I choose not to use the dealer for routine maintenance.
When it comes to maintenance, I strictly follow the maintenance minder and owner's manual. But I have the work done by an independent garage located near my home. It's primarily a matter of convenience. The independent is much closer to my home and has better hours than the dealer. No appointment necessary. I suppose I save money too. Also, I feel good supporting a local business.
I am personally leery about having maintenance done by a car wash place. It's convenient, inexpensive and a way to get a free car wash, but . . . I'd be concerned that they would deal with my Honda generically and not put in the right kind of fluids. Doesn't matter what they use for topping off your windshield washer fluid. But what about your oil, brake fluid, transmission fluid, etc.? Do they have the right stuff, and if so, can they be relied upon to use the right stuff?
I have the same concern with independent shops, but I consider them to be generally more knowledgeable than car washes.
I believe that Honda dealers know best what your Honda needs and would be the least likely to screw it up. However, they generally charge higher prices and have a tendancy to do (or try to do) more than what is called for by the manufacturer (i.e., dealer recommended services). They then make you feel like you are doing the wrong thing by your car (and therefore by your family) when you refuse the costly extras and instead insist on sticking to what is called for by manufacturer (maintenance minder + owner's manual).
The bottom line is that convenience, cost and reliability are all factors to be taken into account when deciding where to have your car serviced.
The usual recommendation from the web is to rotate the tires at around 7,500 miles and mine has some less than 10,000. The manual however says I'd wait till the maintenance minder to show me the code -- not yet so far (except for the last oil change code months back) I don't really have a tire-related problem hoping to solve with this rotation but I wonder if it is best to do it now. Besides, my dealer gives me a free tank of gas for the 1st year whenever I visit them for a service...
Any suggestions? Thanks!
We get a "thunk" from the rear when changing direction and applying the brakes.
Back up and apply the brakes, and "thunk"!
Then move forward. It may "thunk" as it start moving. Or it may wait until the brakes are applied the first time. Then it is happy, until the brakes are applied in reverse again.
Something else that is annoying is the "scrapping" sound when very lightly applying the brakes, in reverse, after it has been sitting a day or so. This is especially true when the humidity is high. Both our Pilot and the 03 CR-V do it.
I've concluded it is the light coat of rust that forms on the rotors while sitting. Never noticed it moving forward, although it may do it. But, after sitting, it most always needs to move backward before moving forward, as it is parked in a car port..
Once in a while there is a single "KNOCK" from the engine compartment when it first starts up in the morning, after sitting over night. Sound is similar to taping your knuckle on a wooden surface one time. Doesn't matter if the AC is on or not, and can't be duplicated until it is ready to do so on it's own.
Once in a while there is a slight odor after cranking a cold engine. Kind of sickening sweet like anti-freeze. It only last a few seconds. As the heater fan is always running on "Fresh air" intake, rather than recirculate, I'm thinking that may be a cold start odor from the exhaust,a light breeze is moving it toward the front of the car, and the fan is bringing it inside. Can't duplicate it, until it is ready to do so.
Please keep us informed concerning your "FIXES".
Now, on a lighter note. Our Pilot runs fine. At 65-70mph it delivers 24-26 mpg on the road, and 17-19 locally. It has adequate power when needed. At 30K+ miles the brakes and tires have about half their life left. On trips it is comfortable for driver and passengers. Even those in the 2nd row of seats have plenty of room. Visibility is good and the utility of space and towing is everything we "NEED". Of the 60+ vehicles we have owned, over the years, it is without a doubt, the most pleasing to operate.
Wish list:
>I wish there was a 7 pin electrical connector, from Honda, for towing a light weight camper.
>I wish it had 300 hp and got 40 MPG at 70-75 mph.
>I wish it turned as tight as the CR-V.
Kip
If you have an oil change coming up at 10k, that would be a good time.
But on newer Hondas with maintenance minders, I've found that oil changes (at least in my case) are called for every 6,500 to 7,000 miles. So now I rotate the tires with every oil change. The independent shop I use rotates tires free of charge, if requested, when they perform other maintenance such as oil change. So it's a no-brainer.
1.I was told that the loud noise on Engine start is due to ABS, the computer does some mechanical stuff , sometimes, resulting in noise.
(Yesterday my engine started and then stoppd, with a thud .. i dont think the noise is due to ABS, i would have to wait till the problem repeats itself often)
2.the door is designed in that way by honda.
3.the backing plate was little bend and touching the roter, I dont know how can a new car has such an issue.the dealer repaired the backing plate.
4. They said the vibration was because of wheel balancing , they did that ... but the problem didnt go.
The New Issue:
Whenever my car goes over some bumps , i get some noise as if something is loose and that gets vibrated because of the bump.The mechanic said , its more or less impossible to find out from where that noise is coming.
I think i am screwed buying a Honda... :-)
2). Having a tight interior is a good thing. Did you try the things I mentioned?
3). I think you aren't being realistic; the probability is, with something as complex as a vehicle, there may be issues that require attention post-sale. Any make, any model. But that's 1 down, only 3 to go. No wait, 4 to go now.
4). Did it improve at all? Did you check tire inflation? You may have to go to an independant tire store with a road-force balancing machine. It's possible you have a bad tire. If you are so dis-satisfied, perhaps you can try another dealer.
I'd do some sleuthing of your own. Open the hood, and have someone competent listen to the engine compartment on an engine start to locate the noise. Close your door more slowly with the air handler on fresh, or crack a window slightly until the door seals have seen a little more use. Have someone quote road-force balancing the tires, or see if another dealer is more sympathetic.
For the newest issue: have someone else drive while you ride in the back. Try to localize the issue. Make sure that your spare tire, scissor jack and tools are secured properly.
Yes 2 is not an issue, ie with open windows the door closes pretty smoothly.
I would do whatever you suggested , would go to another dealer. I already did the debugging for the new noise. i had checked all loose stuff and sat in the back .. the noise comes from under the body.
I will try to find out another dealer, as you suggested.
Once again , thanks for ur excellent comments.
And that's the problem.
Cars are shipped from the manufacturer with over-inflated tires to prevent flat-spotting as the cars sit around in various lots.
The dealer was supposed to air down the tire to the recommended psi listed on the tire placard on the A pillar or in the glove box.
Makes you wonder what else the dealer overlooked or skipped in performing the new car prep eh?
Unfortunately, dealers forget to air down the tires on new cars all the time. Salespeople rarely check the tire pressures when they demo a car and then they wonder why the potential buyer walked across the street to find a smoother riding car.
/rant
Bingo !
Wouldn't hurt to let the service manager and his boss, know about it! :mad:
Kip
The dealer was supposed to air down the tire to the recommended psi listed on the tire placard on the A pillar or in the glove box.
Very interesting. I didn't know that. Looks like the dealers have made some over-adjustments in my case, because the last few vehicles I took delivery of had grossly underinflated tires. Two Hondas (from different dealers) and one BMW.
I can't recall ever reading a post around here where someone took delivery of a new car and all the tires were under inflated. Occasionally now you'll see reports where the tire pressure monitor sensor light is on because of a low tire (often the spare).
Anyway I had the tires rotated and balanced on Monday. Then I went to a local Goodyear shop and found they have a $40 rotation/balancing plan -- even if people coming in with 10K~15K miles on the tires already. Thanks for your suggestion. The road hazard deal is about $10 per tire though.
Thank you again!