I test drove the Audi TT and the Crossfire today. Unfortunately, the Art of Driving didn't allow us to drive on the streets. Fortunately, this allowed me to floor the gas through two slalom-like cone setups and one straight-line run.
I should mention again I'm not even considering the purchase of a Crossfire, post #129. I'm looking more for what Colorado1974 alluded to; a Japanese import.
Some observations: The Audi TT felt like it's steering responded quicker. The FWD TT seemed to magically cut thru the cones with a quick jog of the wheel. It's turning radius, however, seemed a little big for such a small car. The engine sound was communicative. The Crossfire's steering seemed to be a little slower, but smoother in it's response. The throttle response seemed more powerful. Surprisingly, it seemed to have a tighter turning radius. The engine rpms sounded similar to the Audi, but had an extra "whoosh" sound. Like air being sucked in and blown straight out the exhaust. A very nice sound, I must add.
Overall, the Crossfire's a very good-sounding engine in a classy, noticeable chassis.
... that they would "test" against the TT, probably the most underpowered (and overweight) of Crossfire's many overweight competitors. The TT and Crossfire clearly are in the category of "boulevard cruisers" -- nothing wrong with that I guess, but not everyone's cup of tea -- along with such 4-seaters as the T-Bird. But the Crossfire's nice style hopefully will guarantee it a better fate than the T-Bird has had. As for the TT, when the new 3.2 comes out, I wonder what Chrysler will compare it to? Not much left that it can perform successfully against at least in the power arena.
A Chrysler dealer from South NJ is asking $10K over MSRP for a Crossfire with 61 demo miles on the car. This car isn't worth a penny over MSRP. The dealer here are way over their head. I would have considered this car if they stay with the MSRP. Oh well, their lost my gain.
That is to bad that dealers like that have to ruin a good thing.
The one unfortunate thing is that Chrysler forced $11,000 in special tools and training to get the rights to sell them. That is fine and all but dealers were only promised one or two per year. That is a big expense for just one or two cars.
JWilson1, yes I did enjoy driving both the Audi TT and the Crossfire. But if I had to choose between the two, the Crossfire takes it with the mysterious "whoosh" sound of the engine.
catch this show if you can. very impressive. the assembly line for the car was very impressive, hand assembly stations for some steps, reminded me of the video of the Porsche factory assembly process. For what this car costs (dealer markups aside), it was quite an investment in the assembly process.
The test drive segments were good, 140MPH on the autobahn, car looked rock solid. Also segments at Willow Springs. Brian Herta wanted more horsepower.
a Crossfire parked out front of my local Chrysler dealer. Usually a big Japanese Car Fan but Chrysler has always styled better looking cars than Gm and Ford through the last decade. I like the way the front end of the Crossfire looks. A definite winner but Chrysler dealers asking over MSRP is a little weird. Chrysler's always look good and are very classy looking cars but never hold their value very well. I thought Chrysler messed up with the price of the pacifica which is another great looking Chrysler product. Is Chrysler trying to go more upscale now? Thats a difficult task if Chrysler wants to do that.
We visited Petty Enterprises in Level Cross NC and sitting in front was a silver Crossfire with the NC plate reading "PETTY". At the new Richard Petty Museam in Randelman NC we were told it belongs to Kyle Petty and he bought it, it wasn't a gift.
I just saw my first Crossfire . It was parked a couple of streets away from where I live. Why are there panels on the hood??? If this vehicle costs in the mid 30's..people are crazy to buy this !! Can you say Chrysler-Maserati TC ???
Had 3 maybe 4 Crossfires on the lot. All of them had the original sticker on them, no obvious mark-up. One of them was a 6 speed manual the other 2 or 3 were automatics. I thought they looked great and they had some serious meats on them. The prices was around 34K for the manual and 35+ for the auto's.
I would say the rumor about getting 2 cars a year is wrong since they have 3 or 4 on the lot now.
Too bad the power is a little low IMO. Chrysler plays the power game pretty well IMO. People will pay based on hype for a couple years and then Chrysler will sweeten the pot a little bit with more HP to get some more sales. Then they will drop the top for even more sales. Hmmm I guess that would be the PT Cruiser play book.
Yeah, I'm a little mystifed about this vehicle. If I were in the market for a car like this I'd get a G35 or a 350Z for less money. $35,000 for a Chrysler product with mediocre performance?
Well, I looked at 3 Crossfires today, all of which were at a dealer in Newtown, PA. One white, one black, one red, 2 autos and one manual.
It's clear to me what this car is all about: striking styling, quiet and composed ride, coupe sophistication and retro European look...oh, and did I say styling? I think it's a handsome and unique car, to say the least. It's fairly practical, too, with a decent-sized storage compartment.
It's purpose is to make a styling and image statement for the Chrysler brand and DB-C merger. I doubt they'll ever produce many of them. It's destined to be something of a classic design for that reason. Nothing radical technology-wise, but a real showpiece. I don't agree with the people who are claiming the interior looks cheap. The overall effect is very upscale IMO.
..in Sunday paper: "2004 Chrysler Crossfire 6-speed" Then in large RED type: $32,843. One at this price. That is right there at (per CarsD) dealer cost. What am I missing here?
While I am interested in the Crossfire, I have avoided going to dealerships this close to launch, owing to rumors the dealers were price gouging.
If other interested parties are doing the same in your area, it could be the dealer is going all out to get people waiting in the wings from coming in.
Other than at the Summer Chrysler Drive Show they had in Chicago in August, the only Crossfire I have seen to date is one on Old Topanga Road last week.
All the dealers I've been to here in Florida have several cars in stock with a choice of colors and tranny. Low ball leases are coming on line too as seen in the latest print ads (by Chryco or not ?)and I bet by the end of Jan. you'll see incentives too. Hold on for awhile IF you want a backfire, oops I mean Crossfire. Most dealers have already backed off on the price gouging "sucker stickers" as there are few takers @ this point. I have yet to see just one on the road and I travel 1k miles a week around the state.
Hello everyone and I hope that you are having a great day. The original Crossfire prototype had a much more attractive front end that reminded me of the Bat Mobile. The headlights were stacked in a very attractive manner, very unique. Unfortunately DC changed the front end styling for unknown reasons. They maintained the original styling of the rear which is very attractive IMO.
If one is looking for very original styling the Crossfire looks like a winner except for:
1. The Crossfire is based on the last generation Mercedes SLK chasis which will be obselete shortly with a new model coming out. We would be paying for old technology.
2. Chrysler has no brand cache to justify the $35,000 price even with discounting someone could simply buy a Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, Acura, ETC.
3. Mercedes now performs very poorly in the quality rankings mostly at the bottom of the standings. Although the SLK was one of their better models.
4. The Crossfire is underpowered relative to the competition, .......... Nissan 350z, Infiniti G35coupe, HondaS2000, Mazda RX8, Etc....
5. The better quality service experience of the upscale brands, you could actually buy a Mercedes 240 sport now for less money,
6. The Crossfire is a relatively small car relative to its competitors.
I applaud the new Crossfire and like the art decco styling but there are simply so many great choices available at the same price and or less money. And many more great sports cars on the way at lower prices like the new upcoming Pontiac Solstice and VW sportscar with 261 horsepower.
I do not think power is the issue most have made it to be. The car is plenty fast and will have better skid pad numbers and road manners than most of the vehicles you list.
I do not agree that Acura or Infiniti have any sort of special brand cachet.
"5. The better quality service experience of the upscale brands, you could actually buy a Mercedes 240 sport now for less money". Don't be so sure of the quality of the service experience of the upscale brands. As a veteran of BMW and Porsche, I can attest to the fact that the BEST service I have ever recieved is on my POS Honda, bar none. On those occasions when my wife's Acura needed a visit to a dealer, again, I was taken back by the excellent customer service. BMW, for sure, and Porsche to a much lesser extent, just want your money and could care less about the quality of the service.
I would take exception to Mercedes coming in very poorly in quality. Don't base this on JD Power or whoever else gives the ratings - base it on consumers and more importantly on resale value. Mercedes still commands the highest resale value -- and particularly the car I am buying: the CLK 320 Cab which has the second highest value retention of any vehicle sold in this country. That would not be the case if they had "poor quality ranking".
I read in one car mag recently that the SLK is getting 2 optional engines which significantly raise the HP levels. I think AMG is doing the one that reaches 400+. Anyway, I was one who was hot to get the 275 HP version of the Crossfire when I first saw the original advertising grist, and I soured on it when they dropped the 215 HP engine into it instead. I think I will wait a while to see if they can solve some of the first year build issues [MT jumping out of 1st, poor visibility on radio, A/C seals] and then see if they intend to put a bigger engine into it, and maybe do a droptop. My 300M will be paid off by then.
Since it is just a reskinned SLK320, I think the price is right. $10K less for a mercedes in sheep's clothing seems like a bargain to me.
So, anyway, there were 2 of these (1 silver and 1 black) sitting at my local dealer for about a month. I decided to stop in this past weekend. The salesman acted like I was wasting his time by wanting to check it out. I found out why when I tried to get in the car. I am trying to now figure out just how tall you can be and still fit in this thing. Not only was there not enough legroom for me, but I could not sit fully up in the seat because of the lack of headroom as well. I just can't believe I fit in an s2000 (even with the top up) and my Alfa Spider (although not comfortable for long trips, I can still drive it without a problem) yet I have absolutely no chance at driving a brand new $35K car from an american manufacturer. Ridiculous.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
gbrozen: I have run into the same attitude @ most Chryco dealers. They seem to think they have some kind of exotic, very rare machine here. One dealer even had the one & only one they had in stock hidden away back in the detail shop covered up with a tarp. Sign on window said " NOT to be driven without deposit from customer" GIVE ME A BREAK !!!
Have yet to see one on the road and I drive about 1K miles per week around Florida. Carmax in Orlando currently has 7 in stock and are dealing about $400 off MSRP. Can factory rebates be far behind ? I'm only 5'8" so I guess I'd fit in there nicely. If the dealer stock builds up enough maby I can rent one for a weekend and really give it a test drive LOL !!
gbrozen, I'm not totally convinced that the price is right. Yes, it's $10k less than a SLK, but it's no SLK. Let's not forget that the SLK, when you get down to it, is one of only *three* hardtop convertibles currently available in the U.S. market, and it's the only one you can get for under $70k. Whereas the Crossfire, looks aside, is another in a long, long, long line of coupes, and *everybody* has a couple of coupes.
that's certainly a valid point, sphinx. But even the CLK320 is alot more than this (although larger). I actually think this is the first Chrysler in a long time that isn't overpriced. Guess I'm in the minority on that one, though. But, yes, it does have alot of competition like the G35, 350z, rx8 - all of which are faster. But I don't put any of those in the same class as Mercedes.
Oh, yeah, forgot to mention something else the salesman said to me. He claimed only 600 were being made this year. I certainly haven't heard that before, or, if I did, just didn't pay attention. I seriously doubt its validity, but didn't want to jump all over the guy when I wasn't absolutely sure. Does anyone know the true number? I thought someone said Chrysler wants to sell like 80,000 of these things?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I've seen one car hauler here in the Detroit area loaded with Crossfires. It was quite a sight, one of those few times that cars zipping by at 80 on an interstate instantaneously braked to 60 to pull alongside and gawk at this big trailer carrying eight or so exotic looking cars. From that reaction I think the Crossfire will steal looks from any Ferrari or Aston Martin on the road. That's a pretty impressive accomplishment.
On the other hand, here in Michigan country we seem to see the 'hot' American cars before anyone else. I see an XLR on the road at least three times a week. In spite of this, I have yet to see a single Crossfire on the road.
Chryco dealers offering $3000 towards leases.Very little down (less than 1k) $399 per month for 60 months but only 10k miles per year. Orlando dealer has 28 of 'em in stock. Come and get 'em !!
I bet by the first of the year they'll have 3K rebate just like the Pacifica that is bombing as well. How would you like to be one of the poor saps that jumped on a Xfire too soon and paid $6000 over MSRP as they were asking in the Bay Area at intro? In a year I bet you'll be able to buy a low mileage used one for about 20K. I'm gonna wait a little longer thank you.
I own a black 6 speed Crossfire, 12 weeks as of yesterday. I've read many of the posts in the last pages of this board, having just stumbled onto it. This is a bit long to address a number of issues raised.
My take: It's biggest drawback is the Chrysler name. In terms of sports car performance, it does take a significant back seat to the 350Z and Honda S2000 in staight line acceleration. However, recirculating ball steering instead of rack and pinion steering notwithstanding, this car does NOT need to apologize to other cars in it's niche, and indeed will often outperform them in the object car magazine tests in slalom mph, lateral grip, and braking.
For acceleration, it IS better than a few cars in it's price range/niche: Audi TT and BMW Z4 (with the smaller engine.
Against the Z, 0 to 60 it gets eaten, on average by a second. But it is a much lighter car, has better mid range grunt than the Z, and again in most tests by the end of a quarter mile it's made up more than half what it gave up at the starting line. All that said, the Subaru WRX and the Neon Turbo will walk away from ALL those cars in a drag race...
It COULD use more power, and certainly the chassis can take it. My guess is you'll see a supercharged version next year, IF they still make them. Us first year owners will sing the same blues, I suppose, that the first Z3 owners sang 'cause they bought the 4 cylinder cars.
Dispell a major misconception: It is NOT simply an SLK with a different body, nor are the suspension components a direct bolt over. There are some stock SLK bits, some modified ones, and some CLK bits. THe end result, and again this isn't my own biased-owner view but the conclusion of every magazine test, is a platform significantly superior to the SLK in all areas: handling, stiffness, body roll. It's the SLK updated, basically. It truly is an awesome handling car.
Styling: Somebody preferred the concept cars stacked headlights. Mmmm..all a matter of taste. I doubt I would've bought it had it stuck with those headlights, although I'm told the headlights it has are actually Hyundai units!!! Cadillac can keep the stacked headlight look, I think it will be dated very quickly.
Interior. Most reviews complain about the satin finished plastic on the center console. I kind of like it. I'm 5'8", and to me the cockpit is close and snug, not sure I'd want to be in there if I was 6 foot though. However, guys on the owner's board are over 6 foot and they say it's ok with them.
Price. The discounts are coming/here. I got mine for $500 under MSRP 2 months ago, the same dealer now has for $1500 under. I would question stories of them going form much under that right now. The Xfire dealers have to, up front, pony up $8500 for tools and parts to be able to sell them. There are a couple of Chrysler techs on the owner's board, and they say the actual dealer cost is around $31,500, so unless Chrysler itself throws up its hands and offers cash back, $32 is likely the floor for a new 6 speed. I would predict 0% finance not too far off.
When comparing to the Z, the RX8, the Audi, BMW, or S2000, in terms of price, compare apples to apples. THe Xfire has NO options other than transmission. It is already a full equipped luxury sports coupe (not sports car). You can't really option a Z full to what a Crossfire comes with, but coming as close as you can, the Z will actually cost a bit more even at the Xfire's MSRP. Ditto the Audi, BMW, Honda.
Sales. One of the techs on the owners board has access to actual national sales figures. Through September, 2171 of the cars had been sold. With a target of 8000 for the US this calendar year, safe to say this has been a disappointment for Chrysler. BUT, they've done a horrible job marketing. When the PT Cruiser came out, everyone knew what it was long before there were many on the road. When I tell friends I've bought a Crossfire, very, very, very few have even heard of it.
Quality. Mixed bag here. A few 1st year problems have popped up on the owner's board. One or two that could be quite troubling, but they appear to be few in number and limited to a short run of cars built on a bad day. I'm pleased with the quality so far, and I'm also VERY pleased with my dealer and the service. I'm treated like I bought a Bentley. Although, I've heard from other folks who get terrible service from their Chrysler dealers, so I feel fortunate.
Would I do it again? Dunno. I will lose significant money on the car when I sell (in a little over a year, when my ordered Lotus Elise arrives). However, it amuses me a bit when folks cite that as a drawback. New car owners of ANY make lose significant money when they sell/trade.
I know some guys crying that they should've waited to take advantage of the discounts now. True, especially for those paying $5K to $10K over. But you can drive yourself crazy thinking about that. I just drive the car, and have fun doing it. Chrysler probably won't make it for more than a year or two, and in the end I'll have a very rare, well engineered, fun (but not perfect) car that will still have a 7/70 warranty and a free loaner when I go for service.
Motortrend: "the 2004 crossfire and the 2003 MB SLK320 share 39 percent of their equipment: an engine, transmission, partial suspension, steering, brakes, dashboard, and more."
"we were surprised to learn that 80 percent of the car's overall content is, in fact, German."
So its not a direct bolt on of the SLK suspension, but its not completely different either. I think you'd find most of the handling differences can be attributed to a fixed roof.
To address my major concern I posted a little earlier, how tall are you and how comfortable do you find the car?
thanks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Ok, reread my post. I never said it was completely different, but the differences in the component upgrades/modifications as well as their installation make for a very different handling car.
The fixed roof is part of it, sure. So are the 19" rear wheels w/255 Michelin Pilot Sports. BUT the manner in which the suspension components have been modded and installed play a factor. The totality is such that the Crossfire handles more like a sports car, and indeed pulls higher g's than the 350Z, RX8, Honda S2000, or BMW Z4, and in some tests more than the Boxster. In most slalom tests, the Crossfire compares favorably with those cars as well, where the SLK could never make such a claim.
Another example: Mid/late '80's Lotus Esprits had Toyota suspension components, as well as brake components front/rear. Actually, they also used Toyota rear tail light lenses, but I digress.
BUT, the manner of installation and the chassis were such that nobody would confuse the handling of the Lotus with the Toyota (I owned one of the Esprits for 10 years).
Also, rereading my post you'll find I did address one of your issues...I am 5' 8" tall, per my response, am quite comfortable in the car. I also stated that I would think I would feel a bit claustrophic if I was 6 feet or so, but I also pointed out that there are other folks who own the Crossfire who regularly post on both of two well trafficked owners' boards, who are well over 6 feet tall, that find the Crossfire quite comfortable. It's all a matter of preference, I suppose. The driver's seat is 8 way adjustable. That includes up/down to help with the headroom issue for taller people. Lateral room is no different than any of the Vette's, Porsches, Lotuses, Nissan Z's in which I've sat.
There are a lot of big people who have the new Lotus Elise on order who may find their feet are too big to use the peddles, that does not diminish the fact that is is probably the best handling production car on the planet.
Finally, don't take everything you read in magazines as gospel. THe dashboard most certainly is NOT a direct carryover, and specifically has design themes built in unique to the Crossfire. The gauges are different, although the cruise control stalk is carried over from the MB parts bin.
Another example of taking car magazine reviews with a grain of salt: Forbes' reviewer went on how the Crossfire having rear drum brakes is unforgiveable in a car like this. Trouble is, the car most certainly does not have drum brakes, but has disks on all four corners. Anybody with half an understanding of cars could stand 15 feet from the car and see the disk brakes on the rear. What's unforgiveable is a car reviewer not knowing disk brakes when he sees them.
I hope that helps with some understanding of the car. It is far from perfect, a combination of rushing through 2 years from concept to production, some compromises to use existing bits to cut costs/save time, and the usual first year gremlins. That said, every time I drive the car I am more impressed with it.
Chrysler has done a horrible job of marketing this car and creating an identity for it. Ditto the Pacifica. Although the car is outstanding, and would in subsequent years become more so as the inevitable bugs are worked out, I really do not believe it will last more than two years in production.
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me to see Daimler sell Chrysler in the next couple of years.
no need to get defensive, kusheen. I was not getting down on the car in the least. And I never accused you of saying the suspension was all new. I was just being more specific.
I obviously missed that one paragraph in your first post. I was running through it quickly. My apologies.
I am a supporter of the car. I just wish they made it more suitable for bigger people. I find it really hard to believe anyone "well over 6 feet tall" can fit comfortably in it. Like I said, I'm 6'5" and don't fit AT ALL, let alone even think about getting comfortable. And I'm not all that tough to please considering my pleasure car is an Alfa Spider. In that car I have to push my knee tight against the steering wheel to make the 1-2 shift. But I happily do it. In the Crossfire I would need to cut a hole in the roof just to be able to sit back against the seat. I just didn't fit, period.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Congratulations on your new car. I am more into ride and handling than huge HP #s as well. Sounds as though the Crossfire really shines.
Many here who are not buying have reported rumors of dealer price gouging. This is one thing I worry about with Chrysler in the wake of the PT Cruise launch. How did your dealer treat you?
For your information, the Chrysler Pacifica is far from a being a bomb. As a matter of fact, the Chrysler Pacifica, at almost 8,000 units a month, out sells every crossover in its price range other than Highlander and Pilot which sell 10,000 and 9,000 units a month. The Chrysler Pacifica has just had it seventh consecutive sales increase. The Chrysler Crossfire was never meant to be a giant success. Chrysler wanted the Crossfire to be sold in limited numbers. In addition, all of the already paid for MB hardware in the Crossfire ensures that the Crossfire insignificantly impacts Chrysler. All of the hype about Chrysler going under or being sold is just that. After a 1.9 billion dollar loss in the 2nd quarter, Chrysler had the second highest profit among the big three at 170 million dollars; an amazing feat. More proof that the merger is working, sales of the Dodge Ram have increased 46% to just under 42,000 units in October alone. Dealers across the country have already amounted 38,000 orders for the 2004 Dodge Durango. If Chrysler's good fortune continues, it will be around for a long time. BTW, Chrysler was the only domestic automaker to have a sales increase in October, at 16%, (the Chrysler Groups as a whole had a sales increase of 11%), whereas GM and Ford had declines of 7.7 and 3% respectively. Its amazing how Ford's low stock price, failings brands such as Lincoln Mercury, and its non profiting Premier Group never make it a prime target for the going out of business sign.
Good points all, a couple of responses to questions.
My dealer was great to work with. Got the car for $500 under MSRP without much trouble.
About $35K for 215 hp. True enough, but take it/leave it for its actual performance or lackthereof. It is a very quick car and compares favorably in terms of performance with its competitors.
Remember, the new Lotus Elise will have only 190 hp at a projected $39K!!!! But it will also do a sub 5 second to 60 and low 13's quarter mile. It weighing only 1900 lbs is the key.
But if hp is what you want, if the Crossfire is continued it's a no brainer that they'll put the supercharger from the SLK Kompressor in there in the next year or so...
About the Pacifica...I know I didn't say it was a bomb...but the one poster's response and the data cited/way it was cited would lead one to believe that you might be a Daimler Chyrsler employee of some sort.
I can't quibble with your sales figures, I have no way of knowing whether or not they're accurate. I do know, though, that in comparison tests with comparable vehicles in all the major car mags, it comes in middling.
One problem was the initial pricing. Chrysler put a bunch of loaded Pacificas out there, with MSRP's over $40 K, and folks, even loyal Chrysler mini van owners looking to move up, choked on the thought of a $40K minivan. It's only been in the last month or so that, at least in my area, the Pacificas have been advertised as available in the $28K range (basically stripped).
About Crossfire #'s, true enough it was never meant to sell all that many, but so far actual sales are still far below even the modest numbers hoped for.
Chrysler sales reps I've talked to have said that there are lots of lookers, but people can't bring themselves to plunk down $35K for a Chrysler sports car.
i agree that horsepower per dollar is not the issue at all. If that is what you are after, go buy a V8 pickup truck. I still can't help but look at this from one viewpoint and that is "its $10K less than the Benz."
And these things are not moving one bit from any of the 3 nearest dealers I've seen them at. The one around the corner from me has had the same 2 sitting in the same spot for months. Same goes for the one I drive past on my way to work ... but he just added a 3rd to his front lot last week, so now has 3 untouched sitting there. The 3rd place I don't drive by that often, but they have been there for at least 2 weeks that I can attest to. And each of the dealers has 1 silver and 1 black (now that dealer on my way to work has 2 black and 1 silver). And I have yet to see a single one on the road. Kind of disappointing because I'd really like to see other similar concepts make it to production (like the Razor) but don't see this happening if the Crossfire doesn't sell well.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Hey! Weren't these the original numbers for the Chrysler Prowler? But... that car was a convertible, and there were few decent cars under $35K with more HP (1997?).
"its $10K less than the Benz." - Yes, and the Benz has a hard-top convertible, which might be worth the $10K, or close to it. So according to your rationale, the Crossfire is priced at the same level as the MB.
- With Crossfires sitting on the lot. I wonder if dealers are going through what happened with the 350Z? I used to see dealers with tons of 350Z cars on their lots. The reason being is that the 350Zs all had mark-ups and were thus, not selling.
you think a chopped top is worth a $10K premium? wow! Yer an easier sell than me. I would never plop down an extra 30% premium on the price of a car for the simple ability to go topless.
Well, they haven't ruled out a convertible hardtop for the Crossfire just yet, so we may indeed see what the real price difference is.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"you think a chopped top is worth a $10K premium? wow! Yer an easier sell than me. I would never plop down an extra 30% premium on the price of a car for the simple ability to go topless."
- As a rule of thumb, a convertible is generally a +$5000 premium, unless it is a Porsche or exotic. Since it is a hard-topped convertible and not a soft-top, I was estimating that it would be an even more costly premium. +$10000 might be stretching it, but not by much. You get the idea.
Example MB CLK320 coupe - base - $45,070 MB CLK320 convertible - base - $52,120
Comments
I should mention again I'm not even considering the purchase of a Crossfire, post #129. I'm looking more for what Colorado1974 alluded to; a Japanese import.
Some observations:
The Audi TT felt like it's steering responded quicker. The FWD TT seemed to magically cut thru the cones with a quick jog of the wheel. It's turning radius, however, seemed a little big for such a small car. The engine sound was communicative.
The Crossfire's steering seemed to be a little slower, but smoother in it's response. The throttle response seemed more powerful. Surprisingly, it seemed to have a tighter turning radius. The engine rpms sounded similar to the Audi, but had an extra "whoosh" sound. Like air being sucked in and blown straight out the exhaust. A very nice sound, I must add.
Overall, the Crossfire's a very good-sounding engine in a classy, noticeable chassis.
Did you enjoy the drive?
JW
The dealer here are way over their head. I would have considered this car if they stay with the MSRP. Oh well, their lost my gain.
The one unfortunate thing is that Chrysler forced $11,000 in special tools and training to get the rights to sell them. That is fine and all but dealers were only promised one or two per year. That is a big expense for just one or two cars.
If you missed the Test Drive this past weekend, be sure to catch it on Speed Channel, 10 am EST,July 24:
http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/index.php?m=07&d=24&ts=10- 59019200&timezone=0&subcat=&program=&usecal=yes
Tommy Kendall drove the Crossfire 150 mph on the Autobahn, raced with Brian Herta at Willow Springs (I think), an had a reporter drive it out in the desert.
Good viewing,
TerraHopper
That's about .10g higher than -
Viper GTS
Corvette Z06
Mustang Cobra R
Porsche 911 GT2
Porsche 911 GT3
Lamborghini Diablo
Lotus Elise
I just don't believe it.
Obviously the DCX legal department is going to have quite a snafu on their hands. There is no disclaimer on the skidpad numbers.
The test drive segments were good, 140MPH on the autobahn, car looked rock solid. Also segments at Willow Springs. Brian Herta wanted more horsepower.
icvci, that's strange that Chrysler would claim 1.1g. I'm sure everyone's read Car&Driver's review, 0.91g on the skidpad:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=6747&page_number=1
Anyhow, numbers are important, but I'd powerslide the Crossfire any chance I'd get (as long as it's safe, mind you).
Peace out,
TerraHopper
I would say the rumor about getting 2 cars a year is wrong since they have 3 or 4 on the lot now.
Too bad the power is a little low IMO. Chrysler plays the power game pretty well IMO. People will pay based on hype for a couple years and then Chrysler will sweeten the pot a little bit with more HP to get some more sales. Then they will drop the top for even more sales. Hmmm I guess that would be the PT Cruiser play book.
It's clear to me what this car is all about: striking styling, quiet and composed ride, coupe sophistication and retro European look...oh, and did I say styling? I think it's a handsome and unique car, to say the least. It's fairly practical, too, with a decent-sized storage compartment.
It's purpose is to make a styling and image statement for the Chrysler brand and DB-C merger. I doubt they'll ever produce many of them. It's destined to be something of a classic design for that reason. Nothing radical technology-wise, but a real showpiece. I don't agree with the people who are claiming the interior looks cheap. The overall effect is very upscale IMO.
for those of us with 107k to spend on a sports coupe at least.
From the lack of activity on these boards, the question arises: Who is buying these?
ez
If other interested parties are doing the same in your area, it could be the dealer is going all out to get people waiting in the wings from coming in.
Other than at the Summer Chrysler Drive Show they had in Chicago in August, the only Crossfire I have seen to date is one on Old Topanga Road last week.
HUD
If one is looking for very original styling the Crossfire looks like a winner except for:
1. The Crossfire is based on the last generation Mercedes SLK chasis which will be obselete shortly with a new model coming out. We would be paying for old technology.
2. Chrysler has no brand cache to justify the $35,000 price even with discounting someone could simply buy a Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, Acura, ETC.
3. Mercedes now performs very poorly in the quality rankings mostly at the bottom of the standings. Although the SLK was one of their better models.
4. The Crossfire is underpowered relative to the competition, .......... Nissan 350z, Infiniti G35coupe, HondaS2000, Mazda RX8, Etc....
5. The better quality service experience of the upscale brands, you could actually buy a Mercedes 240 sport now for less money,
6. The Crossfire is a relatively small car relative to its competitors.
I applaud the new Crossfire and like the art decco styling but there are simply so many great choices available at the same price and or less money. And many more great sports cars on the way at lower prices like the new upcoming Pontiac Solstice and VW sportscar with 261 horsepower.
I do not agree that Acura or Infiniti have any sort of special brand cachet.
Since it is just a reskinned SLK320, I think the price is right. $10K less for a mercedes in sheep's clothing seems like a bargain to me.
So, anyway, there were 2 of these (1 silver and 1 black) sitting at my local dealer for about a month. I decided to stop in this past weekend. The salesman acted like I was wasting his time by wanting to check it out. I found out why when I tried to get in the car. I am trying to now figure out just how tall you can be and still fit in this thing. Not only was there not enough legroom for me, but I could not sit fully up in the seat because of the lack of headroom as well. I just can't believe I fit in an s2000 (even with the top up) and my Alfa Spider (although not comfortable for long trips, I can still drive it without a problem) yet I have absolutely no chance at driving a brand new $35K car from an american manufacturer. Ridiculous.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Have yet to see one on the road and I drive about 1K miles per week around Florida. Carmax in Orlando currently has 7 in stock and are dealing about $400 off MSRP. Can factory rebates be far behind ?
I'm only 5'8" so I guess I'd fit in there nicely. If the dealer stock builds up enough maby I can rent one for a weekend and really give it a test drive LOL !!
HUD
Oh, yeah, forgot to mention something else the salesman said to me. He claimed only 600 were being made this year. I certainly haven't heard that before, or, if I did, just didn't pay attention. I seriously doubt its validity, but didn't want to jump all over the guy when I wasn't absolutely sure. Does anyone know the true number? I thought someone said Chrysler wants to sell like 80,000 of these things?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
On the other hand, here in Michigan country we seem to see the 'hot' American cars before anyone else. I see an XLR on the road at least three times a week. In spite of this, I have yet to see a single Crossfire on the road.
I bet by the first of the year they'll have 3K rebate just like the Pacifica that is bombing as well. How would you like to be one of the poor saps that jumped on a Xfire too soon and paid $6000 over MSRP as they were asking in the Bay Area at intro? In a year I bet you'll be able to buy a low mileage used one for about 20K. I'm gonna wait a little longer thank you.
HUD
I own a black 6 speed Crossfire, 12 weeks as of yesterday. I've read many of the posts in the last pages of this board, having just stumbled onto it. This is a bit long to address a number of issues raised.
My take: It's biggest drawback is the Chrysler name. In terms of sports car performance, it does take a significant back seat to the 350Z and Honda S2000 in staight line acceleration. However, recirculating ball steering instead of rack and pinion steering notwithstanding, this car does NOT need to apologize to other cars in it's niche, and indeed will often outperform them in the object car magazine tests in slalom mph, lateral grip, and braking.
For acceleration, it IS better than a few cars in it's price range/niche: Audi TT and BMW Z4 (with the smaller engine.
Against the Z, 0 to 60 it gets eaten, on average by a second. But it is a much lighter car, has better mid range grunt than the Z, and again in most tests by the end of a quarter mile it's made up more than half what it gave up at the starting line. All that said, the Subaru WRX and the Neon Turbo will walk away from ALL those cars in a drag race...
It COULD use more power, and certainly the chassis can take it. My guess is you'll see a supercharged version next year, IF they still make them. Us first year owners will sing the same blues, I suppose, that the first Z3 owners sang 'cause they bought the 4 cylinder cars.
Dispell a major misconception: It is NOT simply an SLK with a different body, nor are the suspension components a direct bolt over. There are some stock SLK bits, some modified ones, and some CLK bits. THe end result, and again this isn't my own biased-owner view but the conclusion of every magazine test, is a platform significantly superior to the SLK in all areas: handling, stiffness, body roll. It's the SLK updated, basically. It truly is an awesome handling car.
Styling: Somebody preferred the concept cars stacked headlights. Mmmm..all a matter of taste. I doubt I would've bought it had it stuck with those headlights, although I'm told the headlights it has are actually Hyundai units!!! Cadillac can keep the stacked headlight look, I think it will be dated very quickly.
Interior. Most reviews complain about the satin finished plastic on the center console. I kind of like it. I'm 5'8", and to me the cockpit is close and snug, not sure I'd want to be in there if I was 6 foot though. However, guys on the owner's board are over 6 foot and they say it's ok with them.
Price. The discounts are coming/here. I got mine for $500 under MSRP 2 months ago, the same dealer now has for $1500 under. I would question stories of them going form much under that right now. The Xfire dealers have to, up front, pony up $8500 for tools and parts to be able to sell them. There are a couple of Chrysler techs on the owner's board, and they say the actual dealer cost is around $31,500, so unless Chrysler itself throws up its hands and offers cash back, $32 is likely the floor for a new 6 speed. I would predict 0% finance not too far off.
When comparing to the Z, the RX8, the Audi, BMW, or S2000, in terms of price, compare apples to apples. THe Xfire has NO options other than transmission. It is already a full equipped luxury sports coupe (not sports car). You can't really option a Z full to what a Crossfire comes with, but coming as close as you can, the Z will actually cost a bit more even at the Xfire's MSRP. Ditto the Audi, BMW, Honda.
Sales. One of the techs on the owners board has access to actual national sales figures. Through September, 2171 of the cars had been sold. With a target of 8000 for the US this calendar year, safe to say this has been a disappointment for Chrysler. BUT, they've done a horrible job marketing. When the PT Cruiser came out, everyone knew what it was long before there were many on the road. When I tell friends I've bought a Crossfire, very, very, very few have even heard of it.
Quality. Mixed bag here. A few 1st year problems have popped up on the owner's board. One or two that could be quite troubling, but they appear to be few in number and limited to a short run of cars built on a bad day. I'm pleased with the quality so far, and I'm also VERY pleased with my dealer and the service. I'm treated like I bought a Bentley. Although, I've heard from other folks who get terrible service from their Chrysler dealers, so I feel fortunate.
Would I do it again? Dunno. I will lose significant money on the car when I sell (in a little over a year, when my ordered Lotus Elise arrives). However, it amuses me a bit when folks cite that as a drawback. New car owners of ANY make lose significant money when they sell/trade.
I know some guys crying that they should've waited to take advantage of the discounts now. True, especially for those paying $5K to $10K over. But you can drive yourself crazy thinking about that. I just drive the car, and have fun doing it. Chrysler probably won't make it for more than a year or two, and in the end I'll have a very rare, well engineered, fun (but not perfect) car that will still have a 7/70 warranty and a free loaner when I go for service.
Cheers
TLB
"we were surprised to learn that 80 percent of the car's overall content is, in fact, German."
So its not a direct bolt on of the SLK suspension, but its not completely different either. I think you'd find most of the handling differences can be attributed to a fixed roof.
To address my major concern I posted a little earlier, how tall are you and how comfortable do you find the car?
thanks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The fixed roof is part of it, sure. So are the 19" rear wheels w/255 Michelin Pilot Sports. BUT the manner in which the suspension components have been modded and installed play a factor. The totality is such that the Crossfire handles more like a sports car, and indeed pulls higher g's than the 350Z, RX8, Honda S2000, or BMW Z4, and in some tests more than the Boxster. In most slalom tests, the Crossfire compares favorably with those cars as well, where the SLK could never make such a claim.
Another example: Mid/late '80's Lotus Esprits had Toyota suspension components, as well as brake components front/rear. Actually, they also used Toyota rear tail light lenses, but I digress.
BUT, the manner of installation and the chassis were such that nobody would confuse the handling of the Lotus with the Toyota (I owned one of the Esprits for 10 years).
Also, rereading my post you'll find I did address one of your issues...I am 5' 8" tall, per my response, am quite comfortable in the car. I also stated that I would think I would feel a bit claustrophic if I was 6 feet or so, but I also pointed out that there are other folks who own the Crossfire who regularly post on both of two well trafficked owners' boards, who are well over 6 feet tall, that find the Crossfire quite comfortable. It's all a matter of preference, I suppose. The driver's seat is 8 way adjustable. That includes up/down to help with the headroom issue for taller people. Lateral room is no different than any of the Vette's, Porsches, Lotuses, Nissan Z's in which I've sat.
There are a lot of big people who have the new Lotus Elise on order who may find their feet are too big to use the peddles, that does not diminish the fact that is is probably the best handling production car on the planet.
Finally, don't take everything you read in magazines as gospel. THe dashboard most certainly is NOT a direct carryover, and specifically has design themes built in unique to the Crossfire. The gauges are different, although the cruise control stalk is carried over from the MB parts bin.
Another example of taking car magazine reviews with a grain of salt: Forbes' reviewer went on how the Crossfire having rear drum brakes is unforgiveable in a car like this. Trouble is, the car most certainly does not have drum brakes, but has disks on all four corners. Anybody with half an understanding of cars could stand 15 feet from the car and see the disk brakes on the rear. What's unforgiveable is a car reviewer not knowing disk brakes when he sees them.
I hope that helps with some understanding of the car. It is far from perfect, a combination of rushing through 2 years from concept to production, some compromises to use existing bits to cut costs/save time, and the usual first year gremlins. That said, every time I drive the car I am more impressed with it.
Chrysler has done a horrible job of marketing this car and creating an identity for it. Ditto the Pacifica. Although the car is outstanding, and would in subsequent years become more so as the inevitable bugs are worked out, I really do not believe it will last more than two years in production.
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me to see Daimler sell Chrysler in the next couple of years.
I obviously missed that one paragraph in your first post. I was running through it quickly. My apologies.
I am a supporter of the car. I just wish they made it more suitable for bigger people. I find it really hard to believe anyone "well over 6 feet tall" can fit comfortably in it. Like I said, I'm 6'5" and don't fit AT ALL, let alone even think about getting comfortable. And I'm not all that tough to please considering my pleasure car is an Alfa Spider. In that car I have to push my knee tight against the steering wheel to make the 1-2 shift. But I happily do it. In the Crossfire I would need to cut a hole in the roof just to be able to sit back against the seat. I just didn't fit, period.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Many here who are not buying have reported rumors of dealer price gouging. This is one thing I worry about with Chrysler in the wake of the PT Cruise launch. How did your dealer treat you?
Read this:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031103/dem031_1.html
I'd seriously consider the Crossfire if it had at least 250 HP. I just have a hard time with the idea of paying $35K for a 215 HP car...
My dealer was great to work with. Got the car for $500 under MSRP without much trouble.
About $35K for 215 hp. True enough, but take it/leave it for its actual performance or lackthereof. It is a very quick car and compares favorably in terms of performance with its competitors.
Remember, the new Lotus Elise will have only 190 hp at a projected $39K!!!! But it will also do a sub 5 second to 60 and low 13's quarter mile. It weighing only 1900 lbs is the key.
But if hp is what you want, if the Crossfire is continued it's a no brainer that they'll put the supercharger from the SLK Kompressor in there in the next year or so...
About the Pacifica...I know I didn't say it was a bomb...but the one poster's response and the data cited/way it was cited would lead one to believe that you might be a Daimler Chyrsler employee of some sort.
I can't quibble with your sales figures, I have no way of knowing whether or not they're accurate. I do know, though, that in comparison tests with comparable vehicles in all the major car mags, it comes in middling.
One problem was the initial pricing. Chrysler put a bunch of loaded Pacificas out there, with MSRP's over $40 K, and folks, even loyal Chrysler mini van owners looking to move up, choked on the thought of a $40K minivan. It's only been in the last month or so that, at least in my area, the Pacificas have been advertised as available in the $28K range (basically stripped).
About Crossfire #'s, true enough it was never meant to sell all that many, but so far actual sales are still far below even the modest numbers hoped for.
Chrysler sales reps I've talked to have said that there are lots of lookers, but people can't bring themselves to plunk down $35K for a Chrysler sports car.
And these things are not moving one bit from any of the 3 nearest dealers I've seen them at. The one around the corner from me has had the same 2 sitting in the same spot for months. Same goes for the one I drive past on my way to work ... but he just added a 3rd to his front lot last week, so now has 3 untouched sitting there. The 3rd place I don't drive by that often, but they have been there for at least 2 weeks that I can attest to. And each of the dealers has 1 silver and 1 black (now that dealer on my way to work has 2 black and 1 silver). And I have yet to see a single one on the road. Kind of disappointing because I'd really like to see other similar concepts make it to production (like the Razor) but don't see this happening if the Crossfire doesn't sell well.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"its $10K less than the Benz."
- Yes, and the Benz has a hard-top convertible, which might be worth the $10K, or close to it. So according to your rationale, the Crossfire is priced at the same level as the MB.
- With Crossfires sitting on the lot. I wonder if dealers are going through what happened with the 350Z? I used to see dealers with tons of 350Z cars on their lots. The reason being is that the 350Zs all had mark-ups and were thus, not selling.
Well, they haven't ruled out a convertible hardtop for the Crossfire just yet, so we may indeed see what the real price difference is.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
- As a rule of thumb, a convertible is generally a +$5000 premium, unless it is a Porsche or exotic. Since it is a hard-topped convertible and not a soft-top, I was estimating that it would be an even more costly premium. +$10000 might be stretching it, but not by much. You get the idea.
Example MB CLK320 coupe - base - $45,070
MB CLK320 convertible - base - $52,120