2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

mep1

Are we really to believe that auto dealers pay the published "dealer invoice" for a car and then only make "dealer profit" on how much they sell above this "invoice price". (Or above the "invoice price" less incentives if available by the manufacturer.)

I find it hard to believe that a dealer only makes, for example $500, if they sell a car at "invoce" (less any incentives if available) + $500 on a car with a MSRP approaching $40K. There has got to be some "secret" invoice price dealers really pay --- and the pubilc is only aware of the "published" invoice price that is easy to find. If this is all they make in the above example --- they do not have much incentive to be in the car business. There are some pretty fancy dealerships out there with a lot of people running around in suits trying to look important --- and I would bet that they are making a whole lot more that what appears. Maybe dealership owners are sworn to secrecy so the real truth never gets out....

Is there an "insider" out there who is willing to tell the full truth of what goes on in a dealership as far as real "invoice" info goes? I bet the profit margins are a whole lot higher than we think....

virtualbmw

There is "hold back". This is usually a percentage (maybe 2 or 3%) of the MSRP that a dealer can earn after the sale. There are stipulations to receiving this "hold back" like CSI, volume, training, etc....and it is not a given that the dealer will receive these funds. The dealer likes to look at as they are overpaying for the vehicles and the manufacturer is holding on to their money.

With some makes in certain markets maybe you can negotiate this into the selling price but that is going to be with the least desireable models and ultimately you'll lose this on depreciation.

The overall market forces will determine the selling prices for the most part, even for the most savvy, educated buyers. You can't beat the market.

mep1

The internet info says no holdback on BMWs as there is on most other brands.
There must be some other undisclosed amounts available to dealers as there are to many instances of prices in the net dealer invoice + $300 to $700 range. With the kind of investment in a dealership these days there must be more dollars available to them that we do not know about (more public undisclosed manufacturer to dealer discounts, etc) . For those of us who try to research prices and be prepared, they want us to think that we know their costs so we are happy in the instances we can get a cost + $300 - $700 deal....

I guess you need to be a dealer owner or accountant to know for sure....

amt7565

I think there might be performance rebates that the manufacturer provides the dealers. For example, if a dealership sells 100 cars, then they would get a 1% rebate, if they sell 200 cars then they will get 2% rebates are so forth. I once worked for a TV dsitributor and this is how it worked. So the dealers tried to sell as many as possible by undercutting the MSRP. They could still make it up by getting those rebates if they sold alot. But I am not certain it works this way for the car market as well.

I know of a Honda dealer, who died some years back. He was worth $30 million when he died. Dealers certainly do make lots of money, but not necessarily the car salesmen.

Kirstie_H

This is a good time to remind everyone that no one is allowed to solicit on these boards for any reason. All posts related to the solicitation have been removed.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

ibexx

I appreciate any help as I negociate the purchase of a 2005 325i for my wife. By the way we live in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Here a quote of a beautiful car that she loves:

Red, Automatic, Premium, Sport, Leather
MSRP: $36,420
Invoice: $33,440
Dealer is offering $32,000

Is this a good deal? I was hoping we could get this down below $31,000.

Does anyone know the manufacturer to dealer incentives in April. Should we wait for better incentives that may appear in May?

Thanks,
Ibexx

kyfdx

Assuming your invoice number is correct, that leaves the dealer a profit of $1060, after taking into account the $2500 incentive.. So, I think another $1000 off will be unlikely..

I think that is a pretty good deal... If you are ready to buy, and make the offer, the dealer may come down another $200-$500, but I think that would be all of it..

No one knows what future incentives may show up, but you might not have much selection by then... I'm guessing sport package equipped cars are already rare..

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

I'd tell them 31.5. There's no reason the dealer should get 1 grand on a DOA 325i.

kal

kyfdx-

do you know what April resid value and money factors are for new 330Cci?

cheers

peakpro

Does "DOA " mean it will never run.

The E46 is still a great car and it looks much, much better than the E90. The E90 is bloatted and boring looking and th edash is a joke. (To me and many others)

Shee gets a great car for 32k. How many buyers from the past year would jump for joy to get that car for 32k.

I say try to get anothe 200 off if you can but the deal is not bad at all.

virtualbmw

Again, it's the overall market forces, which are many, that determines what the vehicles sell for. There are instances that big premiums must be paid on top of the MSRP (look for huge money over for a new M5) and there are also instances where the dealer will cut and run with a loss on a new car if the market is that soft. Normally, if the dealer can't move the cars then you'll see rebates and dealer incentives (mercedes). I don't know of any manufacturers that don't offer some sort of hold back but unless the car is just grossly over-priced, it's not negotiable. If it is, you might want to consider a different make.

So, even if you know all the "secrets" about what the dealer really pays you're not going to beat the market. Let's say that I'm a dealer for ABC and every 3 vehicles that I sell, I get a free one from ABC........I'm not going to sell that 4th one for any less than what the others sold for. You can only get what the market will give. And, you have to pay to play.

I don't see why so many on these boards are obsessed with what the dealer is making. If you just don't want the dealer to make any money than buy yourself a bus pass. Quibbling over a couple hundred dollars on a 30 or 40 thousand dollar transaction is a bit silly. I just think about it with a different perspective, for sure, but for a consumer to say "yeah it's worth 35 grand, but it's not worth 35,200"? That's a tough call.

amt7565

You made some good points!

Now, I will get a bus pass and wait for the day when buying a car will be as easy as buying a color TV from BestBuy. LOL

AMT-

mep1

I don't think the point was so much the dealer should not make any money --- that of course why they are in business. The point to me is we are kidding ourselves to think that is all a dealer is making when they sell a car for "net invoice" plus some amount. What it does do, however, is to provide some sort of barometer as to whether or not one gets a so called respectable deal or gets hosed --- and thus the obsession. Like you said, it boils down to supply and demand and how long a dealer is on cars and how bad he wants/needs to move them.

Quibbling over a couple hundred dollars is kind of silly over a big purchase ---- the focus for the buyer is to be happy with their decision --- the dealer knows this and his focus is to make sure this amount ends up in their pocket ---- nothing wrong with it ---- that is the American way....

Thank goodness we have the ability to even worry about such things as whether or not we are getting a good deal on a luxury item like a BMW.
Hey, on second thought --- who called it a luxury item --- a new BMW is a necessity!!!! Keep shopping, have fun and enjoy....

(Sorry for the philosophy --- back to real numbers on good deals.......)

virtualbmw

For sure, that's very true. Life is good!

In the car business it's often said that a good deal is a "state of mind". And it seems true at times that the customers that we make the least amount of profit on are the ones that are the least satisfied.

I'll enjoy driving my BMW home tonight.

weno2

The personal finance columnist in the Washington Post, Michelle Singletary, wrote an excellent column last week regarding the car buying experience.

Link is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32823-2005Apr6.html

I negotiate contracts for a living, and one thing I learned is that you can never never win in negotations, when you are using the other person's numbers. You are using the numbers the other party is providing. And since the "invoice amount" is the amount provided by the other party.......

The dealer's gonna make their money. And if they don't make a killing off you, they're going to make it off others.

Since it sounds as if virtualbmw works for a dealership, I'm sure virtualbmw pines for the old days (b/4 the Internet), when trucks did not have sticker prices, the dealer told the buyer to jump off a cliff when you asked to see an invoice, or the dealer had different invoices for each car.

Read the article: it'll put things in its proper perspective.

virtualbmw

I beg to differ..........I prefer an educated, informed buyer. They are more reasonable and more confident about their decisions. I didn't read the article but you know what, their are bad business people in every industry but that doesn't mean that just because someone is in a particular field that they are crooks. I think that maybe their are even some honest attorneys out there somewhere. I'm an internet sales manager at a huge BMW dealer and all I deal with is savvy buyers, if I lied and tried to hustle people it wouldn't work.

I don't care how good of a negotiator that you are, if you don't get the deal done you're the loser and you're not going to beat the market. Besides, I think that if I make a couple hundred bucks on a commission the consumer certainly benefits more than I do. Afterall this is a tangible item. It's the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and ownership has it's returns.

hk79

I am a newbie at this. This is my first time leasing a car. I want to get myself educated. Can someone please help on what is a "good deal" for a 2005 325i lease, in the southern california area :confuse: .

I am looking for:
36 months
No down (except drive off)
premium, silver gray, leather
12K miles per yr

One of the local dealers gave me a quote over the phone for approx. $455 per month and $1800 drive off (including first payment, taxes, fees)

Thank you for all your advice in advance.

hpowders

Hey lovebmw330i.
Would you please list the dealership in south Florida that you leased your 330i?
Thanks,
hpowders

kyfdx

330Cic.. convertible, right?



36 mo/15k mi – 61% Residual Value – Money Factor .00225 Base Rate

kyfdx

Got an MSRP on that car?

Kirstie_H

As mentioned before, please take all conversation about dealership profit to our Smart Shopper discussion board. We have many appropriate topics there. Further posts that aren't specifically related to pricing on the BMW 3-Series will be removed without notice.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

blueguydotcom

DOA = the model is dead and the value is already plummeting. I like my e46 but I'm resigned to the fact the 25k lease buyout for may 2006 is just plain crazy.

kal

kyfdx
sorry, i forgot to clarify; i was refering to RV and MF for a 36 month/10k miles per yr lease.
cheers

kyfdx

money factor is the same... residual is 3% higher for 10K, 2% higher for 12K.

regards,
kyfdx

crazycommuter

I'm considering a 2003 BMW 325 Xi, 27K miles, pp, certified pre-owned from BMW. Cost $29,995. What would be considered a good deal? Paying cash would it increase my chances of getting better price?

amt7565

Dood-
You can get a brand new 325i for that price! Check out some of the older posts here and check out howmuch people are paying for the 325xi. It can't be that expensive.

Good luck!
AMT-

mayberryguy

Less than month ago I bought a brand new 05 325xi, Jet Black with Black Leatherette, 5Sp Man. and Heated Seats for $29,250. At that price I would opt for a new one.

barry70

2002 325i sedan 27000 miles, premium, cold weather & automatic. Orient Blue and Black Leather inside. One lease owner and a perfect Carfax. I drove it and loved it!! Sticker $28,995 - I was offered $24,800 plus tax once I made it clear I have done my research and have been shopping around - with 3.9% financing.

Thoughts?

crazycommuter

I know the price of $29,995 is quite high. The dealer when I called said, "I can reduce $1K if you come down right now!". I know that I can do lot better. So, I'd like to know where to start the negotiation - wondering if $24K - reasonable? This is certified, i.e., 2 yrs/50K miles after the 4 yr warranty expires.

I'm also looking at infinity G35x and Acura TL. Tough choice to make between these 3 cars.

moneyball

I figured I should post my buying price to benefit someone else since this forum was so helpful to me as a lurker. I plan to take delivery later in the week. Here are my details (purchased in CA):

2005 325i
Jet Black
Black Leatherette
Sports Package
5-speed Manual Transmission
Floor Mats (thrown into the deal)
Wood Trim

MSRP: $31,395

My Price: $27,375

qali

BMW Canada is advertising a 325i "Executive Edition" MSRP for CDN $43100

http://www.bmw.ca/microsites/specials/?lang=en

Lease term is 39 mo, and rate is 3.5%. Residual is 62%. Any ideas on what my offer on the price of the car should be if I want to take advantage of their lease offer ?

elliotts

Okay, here is the deal I made on my car:

2005 330i
Metallic Paint
6sp. manual
performance package
cold weather package
leather

MSRP = $43,220
Invoice = $39,570

I paid $37,000

That left the dealer a margin of $1630 after the $4200 incentive. After looking at other prices on this forum (which I found after my purchase), I think maybe I left up to $1000 on the table. I balance that against the fact that there don't seem to be many 2005 manual tranny cars left in SoCal (I had to have the car dealer traded from another LA area dealer for free), so I bit. Any opinions?

blueguydotcom

Opinion: The deal is done and I hope you have a smile on your face!

corvette

I'm interested in ordering a 2006 325i and taking delivery at the Performance Center in Spartanburg. How does this affect my negotiating power? Does the dealer lose the holdback, prep fee, or something else on the car?

Am I correct in that the selling dealer never physically receives the car, so the car could be purchased from any dealer in the country?

Thanks,
corvette

lenunbiased

Re: how dealer's make their money. My understanding is that BMW dealers (like all European car dealers) make their money on the warranty service, where they stick the OEM with huge markups.

Re: how low can you go, I just bought a new 325i for $1500 under invoice. In theory, I suppose I could have gotten a better deal elsewhere, but this car had exactly (exactly!) the options we wanted, in the colors we wanted inside and out, and was the only car in the Western US with that configuration, so we were thrilled to get it at that price. We've already put 2400 miles on it during a 2 week roadtrip, and if it weren't for setting the speed alert at 85, I think we'd have a couple tickets by now. 184 horses are plenty, and we couldn't be happier. What a sweet car!

kyfdx

It is a decent deal... My local dealer has ZERO 330i sedans left.. So, if you got the car you want.. a few hundred here or there won't matter in the long run..

kyfdx

It shouldn't have any effect on negotiations.. I believe there is an extra charge for Perfomance Center delivery, though?

When we visited the plant/museum, they had three cars sitting out ready for delivery.. It would be awesome to do that.. Picking up your new M3 vert, sitting out front of the museum with the top down

corvette

I won't be getting an M3 vert, but I did the two-day Performance Center driving school in 2001, which is when I fell in love with the 3-series, and I did get to drive an M3 coupe and an M coupe. Lots of fun!

The out-of-town dealer I am talking to now isn't very familiar with the Performance Center delivery option, but is familiar with Euro delivery. I can't see doing it for the price difference on a 3-series. They also say they deliver a lot of cars to Lexington and Louisville. Hmm, I wonder why? :P

I wish Mystic Blue and the "keyless go" system were available now, but the only thing that really concerns me is the run-flat tires. There are currently no all-season 205/55/16 runflat tires sold at Tire Rack, so I'm sure the OEM tire will be the only choice for at least a while, and priced accordingly.

Found on another site:
*** The only cost associated with PC delivery is getting yourself there.***

kyfdx

Yeah.. but does that include the school and the overnight? Or, just picking it up at the factory?

Either way, it would be cool... I assume you've taken the factory tour? I did.. and really enjoyed it.

regards,
kyfdx

corvette

From what I can gather, BMW pays for a meal the first night and hotel room for you and a guest, you pick up the car the next day, and they give you a brief driving school run on the skidpad with a similar car (just a taste to get you to do the full driving school later).

I can't fathom that they do this without docking the selling dealer's holdback or PDI fee, but haven't heard any official word.

I did the factory tour, lots of fun as well. I was amazed at the number of "desk jobs" there, and the overall atmosphere and attention to detail. They really take pride in their work.

nandob

Dealer is offering a 2005 325xi with auto premium, cold weather, metallic paint, xenon and floomats for $36,000. I think its too much. Thoughts?

kyfdx

Clue us in.. what is the MSRP?

nandob

MSRP is $39,095.

kyfdx

There is a $1500 factory to dealer incentive on the 325xi.. so, in effect, you are getting about $1600 off MSRP.. I'd say there should easily be another $1000 to work with there.. But, that doesn't mean that this particular dealer will bite on that..

My local dealer only has one 325xi on the lot... He probably figures someone is going to buy it, no matter what.. Yours might feel the same way..

That said, I'd feel better about $34,700 to $35,000...

regards,
kyfdx

nandob

You are right - that incentive is what was making be believe it was too high. Thanks.

bmw4blondy

I am looking to lease a new 2005 325i with premium package, leatherette, metallic color, automatic transmission and heated seats. The MSRP for this car is $34, 545 including destination. I got a quote from a north jersey dealer of $30, 200.
Do you think it is a good price?

kyfdx

It is an "average" price.. If the dealer uses the base lease rates, it could be a good lease... If he marks up the money factor and acquisition fee, it could get kind of ugly..

What kind of lease numbers is he quoting?

bmw4blondy

Here are the lease number that I've been quoted:
MF 0.00225/Residual 57%
At inception: acquisition fee $625+NJ registration $250 + first month payment $403.28 + state tax $630 = $1909 total. They waive my security deposit since I am a returning customer (just returned one from the lease)

Lease payment - $404

kyfdx

Yeah.. it looks great... Is the state tax the sales tax? All paid upfront? It looks like just 6% on the depreciation... If that is the way it works, that is great..

Those are all the base rates, assuming 3yr/36K..

If it were me (it isn't), I would roll the acq.fee and the tax into the payment... Add $1255 to the cap cost and the payment changes to $442/mo., but your upfront would only be $654..

In the best of all possible worlds, you might get $500-$700 more off the selling price, but your deal is good... Base rates are gooooodddd!!

regards,
kyfdx

skc1

Is 28,245 a decent price for 2005 BMW 325i with Auto and color is Mystic metallic blue, price includes desitination charge which is $695. I brought this car in Austin.

Only optional equipment I addded is Auto and Mystic metallic blue color. MSRP on the car is 31,645/-

Thanks