Dodge Magnum

andre1

I can tell you that the ALG depreciation number (residual used for leases) for 3 years for the Magnum is a horrible 41%! Certainly not a lot of faith by the independent banks in this new Chrysler (with MB parts) vehicles resale value! I was just curious if Chrysler was subsidizing any leases on these vehicles by offering a higher residual if you finance through them. At this 41% residual, leasing is actually MORE expensive than purchasing in regards to monthly payments.

foureyes3

Well, I had planned on purchasing the vehicle after heat wore off of them. I've had enough rough experiences leasing with Dodge. I considered maybe it would be different since it's Daimler/Chrysler instead of just Chrysler. I'm not really a big fan of leasing. I think leasing is for people who just have the money to burn on a new vehicle every 2 or 3 years. I remember reading the numbers were higher than the 41%. I just go back and check to make sure. It's a common fact that imports hold better than domestics in depreciation. I still think this vehicle will do well in the blue book. I think the RT will hold it's value the best. I've seen the vehicle first hand and test drove it. You get more worth if you wait for the rebates to roll in to absorb some of the depreciation. If depreciation is a concern don't buy in the first year of the vehicle. Wait until following September. That's really when some of the deals kick in and you lose alot less of your money. I'm primarily going to buy it because I like the vehicle. There's one on ebay for sale. It's a blue Rt with barely any miles on it. There are some dealer websites selling below invoice. Keep looking you might find the right dealer with the right price.

foureyes3

I've done the same thing in the same situation. Now, I just do some research and shopping around. You are probably a much better car shopper after the experience. I don't know much about Subaru other than Crocodile Dundee.

jfigueroa1

I have been with the edmunds for about 3 yrs, and I really like the forum but, with no intent to offend are there any other forum type where I could get more info on the magnum?
v/r
fig.

hardhawk

Don't have the numbers for the Magnum. The numbers for the 300C are as follows:

24 months/24,000 miles 60%
24 months/30,000 miles 59%
36 months/36,000 miles 54%
36 months/45,000 miles 52%

I imagine the magnum is a little lower. These are Chrysler Financial numbers.

KCRam

For obvious reasons, we really do frown on that question

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

foureyes3

what kind of information are you looking for in the forum? Dodge has a website. Edmunds has research on the magnum. Could you be more specific? I find the forums to be quite helpful if you ask the right questions.

ryster

Just wanted to offer some thoughts regarding the depreciation/resale of Magnums. Personally, I would not expect the Magnum to perform much better than the Intrepid it replaces. Mass produced, full-size domestic vehicles do not have a history of holding their value.

Despite the use of some MB inspired design and components/technology, the Dodge badge alone reduces the value. DC has already started pumping the non-Hemi Magnums into the fleet channels (my friend rented one for a week in Florida while on vacation recently). The more DC sells to fleets, the larger resale hit the Magnum will take.

Dodge is already offering incentives on the Magnum, including the Magnum RT. While at my dealer Monday getting my Durango serviced, I was looking at an RT on the showroom floor. They had a sign on the window pushing a $1,000 incentive when financing through Chrysler Financial. As soon as the AWD models show up on dealer lots, the RWD models will probably get additional incentives (especially in snowy areas of the country). Dealers in snowy states will want the RWD models off the lots so they can stock up on AWDs for the coming winter months.

While wagon's are gaining in popularity again these days, the Magnum is still a wagon at the end of the day. There are still enough people who look at the Magnum and see a "station wagon". Dodge needs to hope people will detach the station wagon stigma from the Magnum and accept it as a sport wagon. Until that happens people will shy away and resale will suffer as a result. I am 30ish and happen to like the Magnum, but my similarly aged friends laugh at it and say it is nothing more than a modern station wagon.

Magnums are piling up on dealer lots around here. You can basically go to any dealer within 40 miles and have your choice of color, options, etc. It seems supply has exceeded demand, which means it will soon be a buyer's market for Magnums. When that happens, resale will suffer even more. Chrysler 300's are harder to come by in this area. Perhaps the upcoming Dodge Charger sedan will prove to be as popular as the 300 sedan.

If Dodge really wants this car to take off, they need to go back to what they did in the late 60's and early 70's with some of their other models. Offer me a Magnum with the SXT package, no leather, and let me opt for the Hemi in place of the 3.5L V6. Do that, and sales would go through the roof (especially if it could come in around $26K). Make it a performance bargain! A $32K+ RT is not a bargain. Those that want the RT could still get it and would get the leather, NAV, chrome wheels, etc. as part of the RT package.

The Magnum is very nice, but it is something you would buy for the long haul and enjoy for many years. It is not really something you would buy and run for 24-36 months and then try to trade-in without taking some sort of a loss.

sebring95

Someone had asked earlier about supply. As of last week there was a 60 day supply on Magnums. That's considered the ideal supply by the industry, but i'm sure the bulk of those were SXT's. The RT's are much less but the report isn't broken down by model. They're hoping to eventually get production to 50% with the Hemi. The first round of production appears to have been heavily driven towards fleets and lower-end models so I think there are more SXT's on the lots than would be normally.

andre1

I too don't particularly like leasing and would prefer to buy. BUT, recent history of supposed 'hot' domestic vehicles has shown horrendous depreciation in the first three years (i.e. Lincoln LS, Chrysler PT, etc). This is in part due to a) domestic companies flooding the fleet sales channel (i.e. rental companies), b) terrible 3 year reliability of new domestic vehicles and c) domestic companies complete lack of direction on retaining customers by focusing only new customers only (i.e. rebates, incentives). The 41% figure I quoted (over three years) comes directly from ALG, which is used by independent banks. That is why I'm curious on the numbers that Chrysler Financial will be using. At 41%, off lease Dodge Magnum RT's could be purchased for only $14,000 in three years! The problem I have with purchasing a vehicle that depreciates almost 60% in three years, is that if for some reason I have to sell the vehicle in that time, it's almost impossible not to be 'upside down'.

hardhawk

The Magnum RT lease residuals from Chrysler Financial are 2% lower than the ones for the 300C that I posted earlier. I verified the numbers today.

sebring95

The problem I have with purchasing a vehicle that depreciates almost 60% in three years, is that if for some reason I have to sell the vehicle in that time, it's almost impossible not to be 'upside down'.

It's more difficult to get out of a lease early IMHO. And with the 41% residual, they're already building that poor resale value into your payments. It's not likely to be any worse than that. Keep in mind the residual is based on a wholesale number, so theoretically the car is probably worth quite a bit more if you were to sell it on your own. Not generally an option if you're leasing. Very difficult to sell because of the prepayment penalties and payoff of the lease. Also very difficult to find somone to take over the lease and that can be costly as well.

It's very rare for a lease to come out ahead of a buy unless you can tax deduct and invest the monthly payment difference. Regardless of being upside down or not, the overall cost is what should be considered.

hardhawk

Every once in a while you can make out like a bandit with a lease. I leased a 1998 Dodge Ram pickup for 2 years via Bank of America. They were wanting to get into the lease business and they were letting people use crazy high residuals. At then end of the lease, I was able to negotiate with their rep. in New Jersey over the phone about buying the truck. They knew the truck residual was way off and came down thousands of dollars. I bought it and drove it for another year and a half before buying my Envoy. I sold the truck myself rather than trade it on the Envoy (although we ran the private sale through the dealer so it counted as a trade to save sales tax on the Envoy purchase) for not much less than I had bought it for off the lease. On that whole deal I came out way ahead. Now, I realize that examples like this are rare, but it did work for me once. If for some reason the 300C and/or Magnum RT are still "hot" in 3 years, the residual may be too low and there would be a chance to make some money at lease end. If not, I just give it back, so it is really a pretty risk free transaction if the original numbers are something I can live with. Of course, it still costs more than just paying cash and keeping the car for 8-10 years until it is dead. All boils down to how much do I want to pay if I want to keep in a new car every 3 years. HAve not made that decision yet on the Magnum RT or the 300C, but will likely be making it soon.

sebring95

Yes there were (and I'm stressing were) some chances to get killer deals on leases. The banks have essentially abandoned leasing because they took so many major hits. The ones still in it are very cautious, hence the lower residuals. Toyota even adjusted their residuals even further this year, giving less on the tail end for options (particularly navigation which adds very little value on the tail but big $$ up front). There's always that chance the vehicle will be worth more than the residual, although you already paid for it anyway so you're just getting your money back. I agree that leasing is easy especially if you know you want a new car every three years. However, someone who might have to get out of a new car purchase either before the lease-end or while they're upside down on a loan has other concerns. I don't see the Magnum being overly "hot" in three years, but I do think 41% is a bit harsh. 50% sounds like a better number but I'm not risking my money for it either and the banks have learned from their mistakes, lol!

andre1

hardhawk,
   Thanks for the residual information. Based on this information, I calculate a $468 lease payment (36 months, 50% residual, .00192 money factor, 15,000 miles a year) and a $573 loan payment (60 months, 5%, no money down). This is also based on getting $2000 of MSRP on a Magnum RT. With saving $100 month on my payment, I will consider looking at a lease once I can get a Chrysler dealer to give me $2000 of MSRP.

hardhawk

The money factor I have seen on the 300C for those with the best credit is .00230. Using that number I can tell you what I have come up with. The 300C I like has MSRP of $36020. The invoice (including ad fees) is $33886, a difference of $2134. Using no down payment and a 15,000 mile/year calculation, the monthly lease payment would be $532.98 if I can get the car at the invoice+ad fee price and a 36 month lease. That uses a 52% residual for the 300C and the $1,000 rebate from the company. Where did you come up with a money factor of .00192?

foureyes3

I agree it is a wagon. It's a sports wagon. I think It'll be a great car for the long haul. If you the kind of person that's switches out of vehicles every two or three years than maybe foreign would work better for you. I have notice some sxts gathering dusts on lots. A lot of people seem to want the Rt version. I do like your creativity of how you would equip your own vehicle. They should have more options to allow us more room for customer satisfaction. I thought the RT was $29995.00 instead of 32 grand. Unless, you've already figured in some options. They should have pick some wider tires for the RT. I think that would give it a lot more balance and control in tight corners and curves. Some of my friends think it's a really nice car. One of my friends said it looked like a high top tennis shoe. I had to really think about that comment. I thought it was great looking and with a few aftermarket touchups then it could be the talk of the town. I would probably change the tires, better exhaust pipes, nicer rims, and a remote control starter. I really think they should have put a power remote for the trunk. Everybody has their own tastes. I would probably keep it for the long haul, unless I was having bad mechanical problems with the vehicle. A vehicle like this can always come in handy. It's good storage and doesn't take up a lot of room like fullsize truck or SUV. I think the gas prices make it even look more appealing to the consumer. It would go well with a full size crewcab truck. I do like the information about the 24-36 months. I'll probably purchase it for the long haul. It'll probably be mineral gray rt loaded with everything except the tow package and navigation system. I do think It could be a great family on the road vehicle. It could also for a really good college car. I do think the incentives will probably be better next month.

sebring95

Just read this weeks Automotive News and they actually have an article about the limited supply of 300's and Magnums. Basically the dealers are screaming for Hemi Magnums and any 300's. They're considering adding another shift at the plant but they claim they don't want to flood the market either. This plant is rumored to be where the Charger will be produced as well, so they're going to have limited production capability.

Not sure how much better it will get though for the Magnum RT crowd, because all models of the 300 are in short supply. V6 models have a 27 day supply and the Hemi models are at 11 days. Optimum by industry standards is 60-70 days. The Magnum is at 60 days for all models, but they didn't list supply days for the Hemi Magnum. I'll bet it's close to the 300C's 11 days though.

foureyes3

What issue was it? I would like to read it. I have notice sxt sitting on the lot and still sitting on the lot. I've heard two different sides about the magnum. I have heard it's not selling too well and they can't get the magnum out fast enough. I've read they have 40000 back orders in a comment out of Chrysler article. I wonder how long this strong demand will last. I honestly don't think it will last if the gas prices drop anytime soon. I'm not really surprised about the 300 models. They sell as soon as they hit the lot. I don't think you have any negotiating room with them. You would have a better chance of getting a magnum. I'm surprised at how many people are willing to pay 30grand for a sports wagon. I would have like beefier tires on the car. I wonder if the awd will sell as well. I live in the South. The only thing I have to worry about is muddy roads or getting stuck in a ditch. I found one dealership that hadn't ordered any at all. There were no magnum or 300 on its lots. The salesman said his boss had decided not to order any to come in after premier night. I do think if the magnum shows great durability and reliability then it might definitely stick around for awhile. The versatility of the magnum doesn't hurt either.

foureyes3

It seems to best way to buy them is off of leases. I do agree with your 50%. Time will tell who actually has the right numbers. I have leased once in purchasing a car. I prefer to buy after the experience. I did end up upside down in the vehicle. I believe a conventional loan gives me more control. I don't have to worry about going over my miles. The countryside will quickly run up your miles. I don't think I could stay below 12 to 15 thousand miles a year. I averaged around 20 thousand a year in my last vehicle. I don't believe your main vehicle should be a least. You should have another one for the miles. I really wouldn't consider leasing this car. I think it would make better sense to purchase. You have a lot more to lose in a lease with this vehicle.

dekester

and finally got to see a Magnum in the "flesh", and all I can say is I can't wait to get one!

Sat in an SXT with the cloth interior - best cloth seats I've ever seen! No cheap, crushed velour like in Mopars of old. Headroom was acceptable since there was no moon roof - and I won't get one because of the loss of clearance. Tried out all seating positions and did not hit my head getting in or out - a concern due to the lower roof.

Car was mineral green - which was my choice - but with the blacked our windows, trim and the large tires, it was a little TOO dark. Guess I'll go with either the Cool Vanilla or Silver with the lighter of the two interiors.

I was impressed with the car, even though I didn't take a test drive. I won't be buying from this dealer, so I didn't want them to get an "up" sheet on me and constantly call and write me asking when I'll be buying.

As soon as my house gets sold, I'll be making a deal on my Magnum SXT for day after closing. Load up and off to Florida!

Deke

sebring95

What issue was it?

August 23 issue I believe. Front page.

foureyes3

It was on the front page. That's pretty good for two vehicles such as these attract so much attention in their first year. Some consumers might get tired of waiting for an Rt and go buy something else. These articles give good reports on factory activities. They never know when a customer just might change their mind and get an envoy. I'll definitely look for the issue. I prefer reading the consumer reports. We are the ones that actually control the production of the vehicles. If we don't buy then there's no reason to keep making the Magnum. How many of us are truly willing to wait for an RT? I'm waiting for an RT myself. I've started looking at a Nissan Titan. I think Magnum is going to lose sales because of the lack of magnum to sell during the strong demand. All these strong rebates give consumers other options. Will Dodge miss the opportunity because of a lack of magnums? It could easily turn into an oversupply if Dodge misses the demand period. I think that will probably be how Dodge floods the market by moving to slow to meet the demand. The fleet sales of sxt will hurt the magnum in the long run. It kills its uniqueness. It looks more like a quantity vehicle then quality vehicle. The Rts are still somewhat distinct. I believe this 300 version will be around for a while.

dekester

I keep "building" my Magnum SXT but never get a price other than sticker. Is it because there haven't been enough sales/prices reported to calculate?

Saw one at the dealer last weekend with a $750 "discount" and a $1000 "rebate" - but you had to finance it through Chrysler to get the grand. I'll be a cash buyer, so that point's wasted on me.

There's a big gap bewteen invoice and sticker, but no middle ground to go in and start making offers.

Any ideas or comments?

Deke

sebring95

I would start at invoice. $500 over sounds like a fair price for an SXT. I had my Ram in for service last week and that dealer generally sell all their vehicles for $300-$500 over invoice without negotiating. He said their RT allocation is sold so far so no major dickering there.

Finance it through DC and take the rebate. Then pay it off. I don't think they have a prepayment penalty. I'm sure there's away to get the $1,000 if you want it;)

jglackin

Not such a "big gap" actually. The base price of an SXT invoice to MSRP is about $1500. Did you consider asking to see the invoice while you are negotiating?

hardhawk

Remember the dealer's invoice has about $500 of advertising fees added in. Offer invoice and be prepared to walk if they won't say yes. The non RT models here in KS are languishing on the lots. The 3.5 liter 300's are selling here, but not the base model. The 300C's last less than a day. I missed one a couple of weeks ago by 15 minutes.

foureyes3

Your cash is the middle ground. You are a cash buyer. That is great negotiating power. That's power to better negotiate on your terms. I suggest you decide on your equipment and look at the invoice price. Just offer a price as close as possible to the invoice. The cash allows you to go to any dealership and tell them you will just go somewhere else for your magnum. That will get their attention and help them negotiate with you a little better. If they aren't listening to your money then take it to a dealership that will listen to your money. Make sure you do it over the web. You get a lot more bidders that way. It saves time and money.

dekester

Actually, I won't be buying at the delaership I went to because they're the "old-fashioned" type of place with high pressure, salesmen running to the manager for aproval, "hijacking" your trade-in, etc, etc.

We bought a new Camry last year using the AAA Auto Buyer's service and paid $400 under invoice. I liked the no-hassle, no negotiating, no pressure experience and would like to go the same route with the Magnum, but the only two dealers in the service here are 20 - 35 miles away. In NYC, it can take you 1 1/2 hours to drive that little distance!

I can go to New Jersey, but they won't send personnel to New York DMV to take care of the registration, tags, etc. I would have to do that and then pay the sales tax on top of it all. Easier to buy in New York, just for the convenience.

I WOULD wait until we relocate to Florida, but I want the Magnum for the carrying capacity - too much stuff that we don't want, or trust, on a moving truck....

Deke

jglackin

Whatever you do, just remember that there ar SOOO many sources on the internet today for getting price quotes...one is even offered here. Every dealer knows what the AAA discount is, even if they are not an 'authorized dealer', so perhaps a more local dealer would extend the same discount to keep your business close.

The reality of the situation is that $400 under invoice was a good deal on the Camry when you bought it, but probably not available (yet) on the Magnum - so YOU have to decide where you think a good deal is depending on the purchase timing. It may be common sense, but it seems that people often struggle with the concept.

I know people who paid well over MSRP for Pt Cruisers (for instance) when they came out. It made sense to them to have them immediately. Others waited...there was no way they would pay that much. Now, I don't think that anybody would pay MSRP - let alone more.

craiginct

I ordered an awd magnum last week and being a typical american - I can't wait for it.

If you ordered one, how long did it take?

thanx

foureyes3

It depends on the demand and how many they have produced for the consumer. The marketing people numbers may not match demand for your vehicle. This really make it take a long time. I didn't even know they had started putting out the awd. I'm sure it's going to take a few weeks.

foureyes3

Maybe, You should just buy it online. I think some places deliver your vehicle to your home. Get a dealer online in Florida. Find your place to move into before you get the vehicle. Use your Florida address for your address for your Magnum. Simply buy the vehicle and move down there. People use neighboring counties and states for cheaper tags. This way you will actually be in Florida.

enygma6

As far as I know, AWD Magnums are not in production yet, though will be in the very near future. Your wait might be slightly longer than the average, but if this site is correct: http://www.arifleet.com/production.html the RT's with AWD will start rolling through production as early as next week.

dekester

Kirstie_H

When a car is fairly new to the market, it takes us awhile to get TMV data, since those numbers are derived from actual sales data. Thus, getting enough to put out a reasonably accurate number takes awhile.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

dekester

That's what I figured. The difference between the MSRP and invoice for the Magnum SXT I "built" is $1844. Enough negotiating room from starting at pure invoice.

Deke

maw1982

I took delivery of my Mineral Gray Magnum RT on Tuesday. It is a heck of a ride and really gets attention. It took me about thre months from ordering to receing and I did pay sticker (although I did get the $1k Chrysler rebate (joke considering the rate they gave me) and I bargained them to give me deeps discounts on the extras I wanted (warranty paint protectant etc.))

Being used to bargainin my way on cars it was frustrating not having the upper hand but I just chaulk it up to a good idea and popular product.

Now my problem: I have the REC (nav) radio. I turned own the volume this morning and the volume bar graph now says "mute". I went to turn it back up and now the sound will not go back up. The nav voice prompts do work but the Radio does not put out sound for any band (AM,FM SIRIUS, or CD). Being Friday before Labor Day none of the Mopar dealers around me would even look at it. Guess that's a weekend with no sound . If this is a notion of things to come I'm so glad I sprung for the extended warranty.

foureyes3

you have to account for human error. This may have just been one of those that got through the cracks. I hope you will have a lot less problems with your vehicle.The Mopar people are supposed to do their job.Consider contacting Chrysler with a customer complaint. You probably would have got a better deal if you would have waited till they got on the lots. That way you would have had more negotiating power. Always work with more than one dealer and let them know you are working with more than one dealer. Competition brings down prices. That's one of your best negotiating leverages. Did you get the vehicle fully loaded?

iowabigguy

Maybe the 3 day weekend is a good time to read the owners manual. The radio displaying "Mute" seems to me like a button got pushed inadvertently. There is a wealth of information in the owners manual.

foureyes3

If I can't grasp it while I am at dealership then ask questions. Make the salespeople go over it. The manual is there to help you. Sometimes it's not enought to help answer questions. Drive your vehicle to the lot and ask questions. It will save you a lot of time and headache.

houstontexan

I saw an ad in my local paper showing a Magnum selling for $19,980 after CFC bonus (I have no idea what that is).

foureyes3

Was it an RT version,SXT version or an SE version? They may just be trying to unload some SE versions to make room for the Rt versions.

KCRam

CFC = Chrysler Financial Corporation

On most Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep vehicles, if you buy and finance through Chrysler Financial, you get bonus cash.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

foureyes3

I still don't how much of a bonus was on the Magnum.Or what model magnum the bonus was on at the time.

307web

What if it is a non-competive rate?
Can you instantly refinance it somewhere else or is there a prepayment penalty?

KCRam

Well, seems that CFC offer may have expired this past week. Neither the Dodge website nor the CFC website mention it any longer, just incentives that were effective Sept 1.

For most vehicles, it was $1000... the whole CFC bonus was a "celebration" of Chrysler Financial's 40th anniversary as a unit.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

maw1982

THanks everyone for your answersn and input.

As for the negotiating and price complaints I had, I went over my paperowkr and the numbers this weekend adn when it was all said and done my complaints I had posted were for the most part unfunded. After talking with others who are buying or ordering magnums now and havong to pay a premium aove sticker and wait longer than me, I feel much better about the deal I got. Being in Real Estate sales myself, my complaints were just based on my apprehensions of dealing with others who work on commission.

As for my radio problem that has been fixed. I simply went in ot the owner's manual and located the fuse that operates the raio and nav system. After pulling and reinserting the fuse, the unit rebotted and works great now.

Also for the person that asked if I got it loaded, yes i did. I got all the options except the roof rack/cargo organizer. I have to say all the options are well worth it and I recommend if anything spend the $195 for the SIRIUS. Its commercial free and the sound is CD quality. Plus the free activation and year of service doesn't hurt. Only features I haven't used to full capacity is the UConnect but Nextel has yet to roll out a bluetooth phone (supposed to be Q1 2005 with the i605).

After having the car a week and putting 200 miles on it, I feel the car was well worth the wait and slim negotiating power. THe color (mineral gray) looks great on the car. It turns heads and has attracted a lot of questons (great in my line of work).

If any current owners prospective Magnum owners have questions aout this vehicle or want pics of any general or specific parts of the car, please feel free to email me at mattwilkins@mris.com

deegee

I noticed in yesterday's paper that the local dealers are still prominently mentioning the $1000 discount for financing in their advertisements. Perhaps it is still in effect.

maw1982

The salesman who sold me my Magnum just now. The 1k rebate is NOT in effect anymore. Also, the dealer I bought mine from just received Five RTs and all of them have 2k markups on them.