Dodge Magnum

andre1969

about the new Magnum and 300 is that, just going by the dimensions they list, it looks like they're a bit short in legroom up front. They're listed at 41.8", whereas the current Concorde/300M/Intrepid is 42.2". Hopefully the power seat will make up for it, but I have a feeling that, with a standard manual-adjust seat, these things aren't going to be very comfortable for taller drivers!

rrocket

Well on Dodge's web site today it claims 0-60 in about 7 seconds. I sure hope it's quicker. The concept form was much more attractive. Bigger fender bulges, different headlights, and the best part..the engine was supercharged!! Maybe version will come later?

tvish

Wow...that's less then half an inch of difference. Do you really feel that will make that much of a difference? Are we just slicing hairs here?

Tej

tvish

I was actually anticipating this feature. Actually it seems like almost all major manufacturers are looking heavily into Multi-Displacement type of technology for their future V6 and V8 engines. Its pretty much a done deal.

I am not even in the slightest worried about this feature. Realize that it has been over 20 years since the Cadillac V8-6-4 motor, you mention, came out. Cadillac produced this prior to computerization of the car. With the robustness, reliability, and the CPU speeds of today's computers in the cars, I have absolutely no reservations about the use of this technology. And just like the ABS brakes, and Air-bags, if the system detects a failure it will deactivate the function.

As much as I love working on cars, I would never wish to go back 20-30 years to the pre-computerization era. The cars are just so much more reliable now because of the computer. Did we all forget all the electrical gremlins, we would encounter on a regular basis back then. Remember how often we had to tend to the spark plugs, plug wires, distributor, points, timing, or the carburetor, in any given month. I will never go back to that.

Tej

andre1969

can make a critical difference to taller drivers. For example, I could tell a difference when I went from an '89 Gran Fury to my '00 Intrepid (42.5" versus 42.2"). For me, the difference was being able to stretch out with room to spare, versus fitting snugly. The Intrepid had a few other things though, that made it feel tighter, such as a dead pedal placed in an awkard position for me, and an uneven floorpan.

It might not be a big difference for a lot of drivers, but for somebody like me, who usually needs the seat back all the way, it might be a make-or-break decision. Of course, the real test will be when the car is actually out, and I have a chance to sit in it and see how it feels. It's just that on paper, 41.8" seems pretty small for a car with such a lanky wheelbase. BTW, the Toyota Camry is also rated around 41.8" or so, and it feels cramped to me, as well.

andre1969

GM did have computers in their cars when the V-8-6-4 was introduced, but they were in their infancy. It would be like comparing an Atari or Intellivision to a modern Playstation II or X-box, though! And just like Intellivision hand controllers tended to fry themselves pretty quickly, so did those early automotive computers.

In fact, it was probably the computer system that did the most damage to those V-8-6-4 engines! If they'd left it up to a mechanical system, at the time, no doubt it would've been more reliable.

Jason5

The anticipated 0-60 times for the Hemi-equipped cars is 6.3 seconds. Most preliminary times are conservative--it may well be quicker. If you look closely at the stats--you'll see that passenger space for both cars (300 and Magnum) comes in around 106.5 cu. ft. That, in actuality, is slightly more than the Intrepid which was 104.1 cu.ft. of passenger space.
    I'm 6'3", a firm 245, and a former linebacker. One reason I purchased my Intrepid was for room. My buddy has a new Altima--which has more legroom (I can stretch my legs more in both the driver and passenger positions) but less overall passenger room...

andre1969

funny you'd mention the Altima, because if there was one car that would stand a chance at replacing my Intrepid, the way the current automotive landscape is, it would probably be an Altima! I drove one about 2 years ago, and while the car had its faults, I found it to be a nice package overall.

I'm also 6'3", but a bit long in the legs, not so much in the torso. So most cars are fine with headroom for me (up front, at least...I still run into plenty where my head hits the ceiling in the back seat), but legroom is more the critical issue. I'm only about 190 lb, so I guess shoulder room wouldn't be as critical to me as with Jason5, but I still like some stretch-out room!

It's not often that I ride in the passenger seat of my Intrepid, but on the few times I have, I can't stand it! I can't fit my feet up under the dash because they're too big, and it actually feels like there's less legroom on that side than on the driver's side!

On long trips, I tend to drive barefoot...taking off your shoes gives at least an extra inch of legroom. Now I'll add that my 'Trep is also a base model, without power seats. Since I bought mine, I've driven a few with power seats, and that seems to make all the difference in the world!

It would probably be a moot point in the end, because if I buy one, I'm definitely springing for the power seat this time around! But somewhere, out there, there's a guy about my build, who's in the same situation I was in 4 years ago. At the time, the car I got was about all I could afford, so I had to deal with the manual-adjust seats. If it had been a tighter squeeze, I wouldn't have bought it.

For all my complaining though, I think the Intrepid was about the most comfortable car in its class at that time. The Altima hadn't been redesigned yet, and was pretty uncomfortable...I know, my parents have a '99. The Accord was smaller back then too. And the Camry? Well, even the current one is cramped to me, so it was definitely out back then! And I think it's more comfortable overall than the Taurus and Impala. Bonneville and Aurora too, although the LeSabre is a bit roomier. I'm not quite old enough for one of those yet though ;-)

b4z

Never know how a manufacturer measures room.
VW says the Passat has 41.5". R & T measured the car at about 45". I would say R & T is closer.

Also if the car has a seat that is higher off the floor the number can measure lower but the usable legroom is greater.

Knee bolsters can also cut into legroom.

CTS legroom measures higher than Impala. But Impala has a LOT more.

nb2169

Thanks for the reply. I suppose you are right. One other thing I was thinking was that if I decided to buy one of these babies (Magnum) it would be cool to put a performance exhaust on it to allow a more aggressive exhaust note. I am worried it might sound a little funky when the management system decides to start cutting off cylinders once the car has reached speed. I wouldn't want to be droning around as it would totally blow my "cool."
Later,
      nb2169

andre1969

how a manufacturer measures legroom, too. I think they measure it from the base of the accelerator pedal to the point where the front seat's bottom cushion and backrest join together, but I'm not sure. And in a car with power seats, you can do plenty of adjustments to increase that legroom. For instance, on my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, I could actually get the seat to the point that I couldn't reach the pedals! Now THAT'S legroom!!

A buddy of mine has a Passat, and I fit fine in it. It feels like it sits up higher than my Intrepid, though, which may account for being able to do more with less legroom. So I'm still hopeful that I'll fit comfortably in a 300 or Magnum!

emale

speaking of legroom measurements...the latest specs on rear seat legroom for the 300 and magnum are at around 40 inches. initial reports were that the legroom would only be 35 inches! guess the new LX interiors will be roomy afterall...

andre1969

35" of rear legroom would've pretty much killed them as any semblance of a family car...unless they were trying to turn them into personal luxury cars, or something!

b4z

Some manufacturer's go for big rear legroom numbers by limiting the travel of the front seat.
My IMpala, Intrigue and Lexus have noticeably more front legroom than the Chrysler LHS, LX cars do.
They also have more room than the Buick Lesabre, which has a lot of back seat legroom.
Like the Chrysler vehicles, which are just plain uncomfortable for me in the front.
The low windshield header doesn't help either.

emale

the LH cars did definitely (imo) suffer from a lack of front legroom. seems the footwells weren't very deep at all...especially on the passenger front side. don't know about the LX cars as i haven't seen or sat in one. supposedly the seats in the LX cars sit higher...more like a van or suv.

andre1969

is that on the passenger side, the footwell is only about as deep as the dead pedal on the driver's side. There's a little hollowed-out area behind the pedals...if they'd made the passenger-side footwell go back that far, I think things would've been fine.

GM's W-bodies have always seemed cramped to me, though. The first one I've driven that felt like it finally had enough legroom, was the new '04 Grand Prix. But then it pretty much gives up any semblance of a back seat. My Dad's '03 Regal's not bad up front. It has power seats that let me get it to a comfortable position, but again, the back seat then becomes non-existent! But even if it had adequate legroom in back, I still can't fit too well...my head hits the ceiling!

I drove an '02 LeSabre about a year ago, and actually liked it. Thought it had plenty of room all around, and it was probably one of the few "new wave" full-sized cars that I would legitimately call a full-sized car!

b4z

How tall are you?
I am 6'8" and have plenty of headroom in both the Imp and the Intrigue(which is identical to the regal).
I can not comfortable at all in the new lesabre.

andre1969

now that's weird! I'm only 6'3". I'm a little extra-long in the legs though, so if I were more proportionate, I'd probably be 6'5"!

As far as headroom goes, I'm okay in the front of the Impala and Regal/Century/Intrigue. Where I usually run into problems is legroom, but then I'd imagine you would, too! In the back seat though, my head hits the ceiling of the Regal/Century/Intrigue, but not the Impala. Interestingly, I could also hit my head on the ceiling, well actually the rear window, of the '91-96 Caprice.

I don't remember anything on the current LeSabre really bothering me, though. I could tell a definite difference though, with the sister Bonneville and Aurora. Either one seemed decent enough up front, but the back seats on both of 'em seemed cramped.

And yeah, I know, how much time do I spend in the back seat of a car, anyway?! ;-) The front seat is what I pay the most attention to...well, at least once I was able to start affording motel rooms! ;-) But I don't like feeling a rear seat passenger's knees in my back, either!

socal_racefan

Does anyone have any info on the tires for the Magnum? The website has the 18's as P225/60R18 "A/S Touring Tires". I checked on tirerack.com to see what replacements would cost. Guess what? No matches for that size, unless I was reading it wrong. I read somewhere that Dodge invested in developing this tire, but does that mean only one manufacturer will make this size or will others start at some point? Any thoughts?

b4z

I am not comfortable in any of the Wbody cars unless they have a power seat.
I rock the seat bottom up which gets more more thigh support and more legroom.
I can pull the seat forward and still be comfortable if someone is behind me.
There seems to be more legroom in the current Impala than than the older RWD Impala.
Current Impala is considered a full size, while the Intrigue/regal/Grand Prix/Century is a mid size.
Wheelbase on Impala is 1" longer than Intrigue/Century/Regal. Has biggest back seat too.

I am concerned with front legroom measurement on the Magnum because I felt the Intrepid/LHS did not have enough.

b4z

300C was moved to "Sedans".
I guess Magnum should also.
Production has already started.

b4z

And what is up with the 225 section tires?
Should be at least 245s.

ruski

225 is better than 215 that Acura offers on TL-S (or 205 on a regular TL)

setzer

my friends are Dodge fans and are thinking of getting a Magnum when they come out.

anyway, I think they should re-design the Intrepid and release it with a Hemi. That would sale. a lot.

andre1969

who's a county cop, and he said that they have an order placed for 60 Magnum police cars with the Hemi. So, either there's going to be a sedan version of the Magnum that's just been kinda hushed up, or you're going to see plenty of station wagons pulling people over, responding to domestic disputes, hanging out at the 7-Eleven and Dunkin Donuts, etc!

The county he's in currently uses mainly Crown Vics (although he drives a black, unmarked Intrepid that still screams "cop car"), so being a Mopar fan, this is good news to me! ;-)

At least they're using "real" cop cars, though. I recently moved, and the county here uses Impalas! In the past they've also used Luminas and Grand Prixes, with the 3.1, and they had a few of those "bathtub" Caprices, but with the base 4.3 V-8!

emale

and the cop car edition of the magnum is supposed to sport the new 6.1L hemi!!

a_l_hubcaps

I've heard that they will unveil something called the Dodge Enforcer at the Chicago show, which is expected to be a police-package LX car. I suspect it will be a sedan. A police station wagon would look rather silly, though they do have them in Europe, and DCX is now a European company...

-Andrew L

emale

would a police station wagon look silly? hell they drive around SUVs all the time where i live and that to me seems stupid from a gas mileage standpoint.

andre1969

is that the cops wouldn't be able to hide their guns and equipment and stuff in the trunk, like they do in a sedan. But then, they'd have the same problem with an SUV!

Awhile back, I found some test results from the Michigan State Police. They tested an Intrepid, a Crown Vic, an Impala, and a couple of SUV's. In addition to being guzzlers, the SUV's were also slow. Some of them couldn't even break 100 mph! So much for those high-speed police pursuits! Better hope they have an old Caprice or Diplomat around then, for the high-speed stuff, because those SUV's don't cut it!

Kirstie_H

Since the Magnum is about to be released, let's stick to talking about this vehicle in particular. You can always visit the police car discussion to debate the merits of various vehicles used. Thanks!

Jason5

Morning gang... Is it just me or are the hosts suddenly hypervigilant? In any event...I look forward to a quick trip down the road to Philly. Apparently the Magnum and the 300 are on display at the Philly Auto Show in several iterations! Looking forward to it.. EMALE--how do you know anything about the new 6.1?

andre1969

let us know what you end up seeing at the Philly auto show! At the DC auto show, the only LX I saw was the 300C concept.

emale

jason,

alot of so-called sources over at allpar have mentioned a police package coming for the LX cars that will sport the 6.1l. the 6.1l is coming for PVO versions of those cars too...

froomg

Whether DCX has officially planned it or not, I strongly suspect that Dodge will roll out a sedan version of the Magnum within 6 months after sales of the wagon start. I think the Dodge dealers will think the wagon is super-keen, but will want a car with a trunk to replace the deceased Intrepid. Of course, a Magnum sedan will be easy to produce by simply slapping a Dodge front clip on a 300 sedan -- and maybe adding some different tail lights. I understand they will sell a wagon (i.e. Magnum) version of the Chrysler 300 in Europe.

vdob

I know that they said the Magnum will be released in Spring of 2004, but does anyone have a more specific date?

socal_racefan

vdob: autonew.com has a pdf file of North American production numbers (updated weekly). From Jan. 1st to Feb 7th they have produced 58 Magnums. Of course these first ones will be for shaking out the little bugs... but they're on the way. The "new" 300 is up to 2110 units. So it will be interesting to see how soon we'll see the 300 on the showroom floor. By the way.. did you see the Superbowl commercial for the Magnum? What a crackup. If anyone missed it - Dodge has it on their website.

emale

won't be seeing either for awhile yet. DC isn't releasing either the 300 or magnum until the end of february so as to try and have as problem free a lauch as possible...

6thbeatle

too bad we won't be getting the wagon version of the 300 like in europe. i prefer the more luxurious interior appointments and chromier front facade of the 300 to the magnum. in any case, i wouldn't ordinarily buy the first year edition of a totally new model, let alone the first edition of the first rear-wheel-drive car introduced by a manufacturer that hasn't built one in ?!? years.

rcf8000

I agree that the 300 wagon front end looks a lot better than the Magnum. Too bad for us.

andre1969

as I actually prefer the front-end of the Magnum! The 300's not bad, except it's just too big! The lack of a "true" bumper also makes the grille look even bigger, and just gives it the look that something's missing.

As for the first-year out of a model, I don't think I'd be too afraid of these cars. The Hemi has been out for a little while now, and the 2.7 and aluminum 3.5 have been out since '98 and '99 respectively. The V-6'es use the same 4-speed automatic that's found in the Jeep Wrangler, while the Hemi uses a Benz 5-speed automatic. The rear suspension is lifted off a Benz. I'd guess the rear axle/differential are, too? It'd be funny to look up under there and see an old 8 1/4 rear-end, which is what the last RWD Mopar sedans (Diplomat, Gran Fury, 5th Avenue) used in 1989!

Jason5

Afternoon group.. In a fit of winter-related "condo fever", I ventured off to the Philadelphia Auto Show to see the 300 and Magnum. They had a 300 Limited (3.5l V-6, leather etc) on the turntable with a spokemodel discussing it. Looked nice enough--very large trunk, adequate rear seat quarters (the front seats were at the rear extent of their travel to give a view of the dash.
    The Magnum--an SXT--was locked up tighter than a drum. But through the tint appeared to have the cloth interior. The both looked good in person--I give the node to the Magnum personally. According the spokesperson--we could expect the 300 in showrooms on or about the end of the month. Perhaps a bit later for the Magnum. The AWD option will arrive in time for fall. Saw the new Mustang, the new Chevy Cobalt. Philly is a nice show but doesn't compare to NY..

nb2169

How long does everybody think it'll take for the dealers to get off the idea of selling the Magnum and 300C at MSRP or above and sitting down to do some deal making with the customer?

hotrodlincoln1

6 months to a year if it's a hit.

Probably 3 if it's not.

Anybody know how long it took the Mercury Marauder to come down in price?

indydriver

The Pacifica took about six months. Now, one year later, its 0% financing AND $3,000.

indydriver

great description...but what did the cars look like?

nedzel

Marauder was way too slow.

nb2169

Me thinks it might be wise to be patient and wait the dealerships out.

Jason5

They look just like the pictures only bigger... Any number of sites have production model pictures--I recommend the Dodge or Chrysler sites...

emale

i'm real interested in seeing the charger that is supposed to be uncovered at the nyc auto show in april. supposedly it is a four door...but a very cool looking 4 door. should be interesting!

6thbeatle

i'm still hoping to see that '99 supercharged 4-door concept charger RT come around. where did you hear about a new charger coming out? that bit of news would radically change my 2006 plans for a new hemi magnum awd, ford mustang GT, or Subaru legacy turbo wagon. if it were possible, i'd love to plunk a deposit down on a new Alfa Romeo 156 Sportwagon. Phwoarrrr! the best imo.