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Comments
Still, there are some sacrifices I was more than willing to make in the name of styling that smooth!
On Magnum, Andys120 put it perfectly in another thread: "I got as quick glance at a pair of Magnums sitting in front of a local dealer. It looked okay but a bit at odds with itself, IMO. The large trucklike grille didn't quite go with the tapered roofline (cribbed from Audi's Avants)..."
Always enjoy a glance at a pair of Magnums myself... ba dum bump!
The front and back don't jibe, IMO. I still like the thing, but in order for me to really want it, I think the front end will need a touch of smoothing and softening. If they could do that, and intro a 3/4-size version (with the AMG 32 engine maybe), I'm the first one camped at the door in my sleeping bag! :-)
I'd prefer the looks of the SRT8 ground effects and HID, and importantly a limited slip differential rather than the electronic & hydraulic methodology to kill the motor and apply caliper pressure to stop the sole spinning drive wheel. I've found that when trying to climb a slippery hill, it was best to disable the ETS on my '93 Q45. The 5 link IRS of the RT seemed stiffer and more apt to transmit stutter bumps than the IRS in the Q45. Get what you pay for!
My friends think I am crazy that I would like a *gasp* "station wagon" at such a young age (30ish). I like to call it a sport wagon
My parents, who are approximately 30 years my senior, also find the Magnum to be very attractive and plan to look into one when they buy their next car in a couple of years. They like the style, both front and rear, the overall size of the vehicle, and the easy access to the trunk area (more space than a sedan, not as truckish looking as an SUV). This from people who absolutely despise "station wagons". The only hang-up, for them, is the rear wheel drive. They would only consider the forthcoming AWD variants.
The wagon thing is funny to me. SUVs are nothing more than "all terrain" station wagons in the grand scheme of things. It is amusing that people are clamoring for SUVs but rejecting what they perceive as "station wagons".
All in all, Dodge has done a great job with this vehicle. The sedan version (Charger) will also be interesting to see. Same front end as the Magnum, but slightly different rear end treatment than what is on the new 300 (profile, though, is very similar to the 300).
The ride/handling is excellent---smooth, quiet but with good control. The independent Mercedes rear suspension gets the job done better than the MM. On the other hand, the MM interior is much, much nicer and "richer".
Looks are in the beholder's eye---the MM is a 12 year old design while the Magnum is new and fresh. I prefer the MM.
The station wagon back, however, would be much more verstile and useful. By the way, the battery is located in the back, next to the mini spare---makes for better weight distribution. The lease guy (a car buff, unlike most salesmen) claimed a 51/49 front/rear weight distribution which would make the Magnum a lot better rear wheel drive car to drive in Minnesota winters (not to mention better handling, as well)
The 5 speed transmission also worked well and the slap/shift up-down is interesting.
Finally, the Hemi. I wasn't that impressed. Yes, it's a strong running, big sedan (sorry, station wagon) but it didn't feel any stronger than the MM I drove. The car had 80 miles on it, so it might break-in a little more but not that much. I pulled onto a level, new piece of asphalt (in the country) and did a couple of 0-60 runs with a stopwatch (the salesman wasn't with me). I got 7.5 and 7.9 seconds to 60. Yes, I know that there are a lot of variables with hand timing, but I've timed other things and I'm usually inside of a 1/2 second. If the car magazines get times in the 5 second range (like an article on the Chrysler 300 C said), then they are getting a lot stronger engines than this dealer did in this Magnum. The only other thing I can figure is that the car had regular gas in it and the timing was being automatically reduced to avoid detonation.
If you turned the traction control off and brake torqued it heavy, you could leave some serious rubber. The 7.9 run was with the traction control on and no brake torque which resulted in a brief chirp. The 7.5 was with the traction control off and a little more brake torque---a little more rubber and a little better time. But it wasn't a mid 6 second car.
Bottom line, I'm staying with the MM. The interior is much nicer and (despite its age), I like the looks better. The 5 speed and independent rear suspension of the Magnum just won't do as much for me, in my daily 130 mile daily round trip commute, as the MM's interior. The MM will probably draw less attention from the law, also.
Dodge will sell a bunch of these, however.
I would like to hear of the results of any head to head contest between a stock MM and one of these Chrysler 330 C or Dodge Magnums
__________________
Any past or present ownership of a SUV, a Volvo of any kind, or a Mini-Van (VW Buses are excempted), AUTOMATICALLY prevents you from purchasing until all station wagon people get theirs.
Face it this is a Station Wagon (and a damn Kool Looking one) so all the debates don't mean nothing to us station wagon people!! What in the heck is a cab forward anyway? Did they make a wagon? It's a V-8 wagon. And I don't want to wait in a line full of trendies waving their money around just to own one.
I got my drivers license in 1963 in Sacto CA and of course the whole surf mania thing made having wagons and deliveries OK, and after the Navy I moved to So Cal and it was still OK, so even when going to college on the GI Bill I had a wagon (a 1963 Rambler 770 cross country with a 327 V8-the only vehicle I don't recall getting at least one ticket in). I just made a list of how many wagons I have owned since 1963 (not counting my trucks or mini-RV either) and I came up with 16. So I have credentials.
I had '76-77 Volare/Aspen wagons for most of the 80's because they were a mid size wagon with a 318 V8, and they could be hopped up, raised, lowered, all kinds of things, then in early 90's I even tried a K Car wagon (and found out that the K stood for Ka-Ka) then around '95 on to present I got into Taurus/Sable wagons, and I am on my 5th one of them (a red 2000 Sable LS wagon the most current)- but they don't have a V8, and they aren't as Kool Looking as the Magnum.
So please don't come to my town looking for a Magnum driving a SUV, Volvo, or a mini-van, I am a Vietnam Vetran and I might go over the edge at any moment!!!!!
Neither car is a candidate for autocross but the independent rear on the Magnum will probably skid pad better. Ride comfort with competent handling is what I'm looking for, however, and the MM does just fine there. The only thing between these cars over which there is no real contest is the interior---the Magnum is really plain.
Then again the fuel issue alone would probably shave .5 second off as well, and dealers aren't known for running the good stuff, particularly a dodge/mercury dealer which likely does not have a lot of experience with these types of engines.
My wife and me both like the front end of the Magnum much more than that of the 300C, and also like the polished Magnum wheels much more than the plastic-chrome covered wheels of the 300C. Plus, the Magnum is roughly $1,500 less than the 300C. The only thing on the 300C and not the Magnum which I care about is the automatic exterior mirror, but I can buy the part and spend a little time installing it.
I got a good laugh from reading 427435's post about the Maurauder. Anyone who has actually seen one knows that it is a primative vehicle. It has a solid rear axle, and is far slower (but louder) than the 300C and Magnum. The Marauder seats are so slick and flat that you have to brace yourself to keep from sliding about when cornering. The CD player is in the trunk, and it has funny "afterthought" add on gauges placed where you can't see them.
My wife and I really like the 300C. We also like the Magnum b/c of the wagon's versatility.
I'm keenly interested in the Magnum's 3800-lb tow capacity. The 300C doesn't specify any towing capability.
I have a lightweight sports car I'd like to haul to open track events (tired of breaking the car and having to bum a trailer ride home). I don't do enough events to justify buying a truck or SUV, just to haul the Rx7 to open track events (on occasion).
With the Dodge Magnum RT, I figure, a 1000-lb open aluminum car hauler and a 2750-lb twin turbo Rx7, should just make the 3800-lb tow capacity?
Anyone think hauling a sports is doable with the Magnum--or am I just dreaming??!!
Novemeber delivery for AWD? Just in time for Indy winter! I guess I could wait that long?
BTW, both the 300C and Magnum need wider wheels? What's up with equipping a 4000lb+ vehicle with 7.5 wide wheels? Heck the little Mazda Rx8 is 2900 lbs and comes with 8 wide x 18s?
10 x 19 wheels with 275/40-19 all around...just have to figure out the offsets?
http://www.ccwheel.com/street/files/wheels/505A/main.htm#wheels
275/40-19 Michelin Pilot Primacies?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tir- - - eModel=Pilot+Primacy&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=74YR9PRI- - - MACY&fromCompare1=yes
Also the Magnum RT apparently has a locking torque converter? What does locking the torque converter do for you?
Also, if I plan to pull 3800 lbs, would getting the AWD option hinder towing ability? As I recall the AWD torque split is 65% rear, 35% front? When pulling 3800 lbs, I would suspect you'd need 100% torque coming from the rear wheels?
Any help in understanding this would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Bottom line, the Magnum would be great for a lighter boat, pop-up camper, toys like jet skis, motorcycles, four wheelers, or a utility trailer. But if I had to pull 3,800 pounds, I'd get a truck.
I would only tow the Rx7 loaded on an aluminum open trailer (wet weight is 2750 lbs, trailer is 980 lbs; plus 70 lbs for tie down straps, trailer spare tire and jack--for a total tow weight of 3800 lbs). The rest of the cargo would be in the RT. Items in the cargo area (with rear seats down) would include luggage, extra wheels/tires, tool boxes, floor jack, jack stands, extr fluids, etc.
Good to hear AWD will not affect towing. The front diff will probably add another 100 lbs to the car's total weight (4100 lbs?). The added traction in wet weather would be an advantage when towing, no?
Brakes on the Magnum RT are pretty beefy. The aluminum open car hauler will have electric brakes for each axle (dual axles).
http://www.aluminumtrailer.com/php/products/open_trailers/specs.p- - hp
The only worry is whether Magnum RT's rear springs and self-leveling rear shocks handle the payload in tow?
Interestingly most older mid-size SUVs like a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, have only a 2000-lb tow capacity (which is the Magnum RT's standard tow capacity WITHOUT the trailer tow package option)?!
Locking the torque converter gives you a near-direct mechanical connection, almost identical to a manual transmission. This reduces engine speed and improves fuel economy.
kcram
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I forgot to mention that you do not want to tow a trailer that heavy without brakes. Glad you followed up that yours will have seperate brakes. Buy a good controller for it and the braking issues are non-existent. The chassis should not have a problem, just stay close to what Dodge recommends. They're usually quite conservative with what the chassis can handle when they rate these vehicle. What is usually the killer on a lot of vehicles is the motor, because 3800# will zap a V6 very badly and many minivans/suvs can't adequately tow the weight they're rated for IMHO. I don't think that will be an issue with the Hemi:) The AWD wouldn't be a problem either, as you indicated it just adds to the weight of the vehicle.
Interestingly most older mid-size SUVs like a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, have only a 2000-lb tow capacity (which is the Magnum RT's standard tow capacity WITHOUT the trailer tow package option)?!
That may be the case for certain variations of the vehicles (like a six-cylinder with no tow package), but equipped properly many Grand Cherokees were rated for between 5,000#-7500#. Most of the small/mid SUV's are rated for around 5,000# with the tow package. My '01 Cherokee was rated for 5,000# but it could not pull it all that safely IMHO. 3500# was fairly comfortable though, and that was a uni-body vehicle as well. The most important item the tow package adds is heavy-duty transmission cooling and sometimes extra engine cooling. The transmissions cannot handle the heat generated by a heavier load without the added cooling, so they are rated very low.
I have driven a manumatic on my last two cars, and will likely on my next, unless I opt for an A3 (or an S4, if so equipped by then) with DSG. A downshift at nearly any speed will accomplish compression braking.
kcram
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Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards
;-)
Brakes were stong and true, and grip on the Continentals was not so bad after reading some warnings here. Don't see any need to upgrade tires right off the bat unless serious snow belt country. If anyone has specific questions, let me know. I may wait for the 4 wheel drive version later this year, but have pretty well decided that me and my kids deserve this machine as a replacement to the minivan.
Repooc
2 weeks ago, my son & I took a 5 day trip that began with flying into Louisville, Ky. We had reserved a full-size car from Thrifty and were fully expecting to drive an Intrepid. We arrived late at night and good-naturedly sparred with the counter person about driving something a bit more interesting than an Intrepid. When he mentioned he thought he could do something about getting us a more interesting ride, I thought he was kidding. Imagine our surprise when he handed me the keys to a brand new Magnum SXT!
Anyway, we drove it about 1000 miles in total from Tues thru Saturday, in all kinds of weather conditions and all sorts of roads.
The Magnum SXT was moderately equipped (probably because it was a rental) and had no other options other than what comes as standard issue on the SXT.
Bottom Line: Excellent car. Much better than I expected.
Looks: Oustanding
Fit & Finish: Decent not great. Mediocre paint but reasonably good fit.
Interior: Great dash guages, but mediocre dash materials. Seats are comfortable and large. Rear seat room is great. Decent standard radio & speakers but opt for the upgraded stereo.
Handling: Very Germanic yet surprising compliant and comfortable ride quality. Goes around turns like a much more expensive car.
Steering: Precise and sharp but almost no road feel. Hard to tell exactly what your front wheels are really doing. Lack of steering feel would be the one hesitation I would have about buying this car.
Noise Level: Commendably low. I also enjoyed the fact that the SXT was hardly any noisier at 90 than it was at 70. I found it to be a very pleasant car to drive at high speeds. (drove from Bowling Green to Louisville in about 55 minutes)
Brakes: Found them to be pretty powerful and I liked the brake pedal feel.
Engine: Anyone who tells you the 3.5 liter V-6 is just adequate, is wrong! I found the 3.5 engine to be quite responsive and more than able to make the SXT move smartly. In fact, though I undferstand the immense appeal of the Hemi, I would not hesitate to recommend this engine option. I own a Chrysler Pacifica with the same 3.5 engine and I was amazed how much peppier this engine felt in the Magnum. When I returned home I looked up the weight of the Magnum and discovered it is more than SEVEN HUNDRED POUNDS LIGHTER than the Pacifica. No wonder the engine felt so much peppier in the Magnum.
Overall Assesment: This is a really good car!
It may not be perfect, but it is a major improvement in everyway over the Intrepid sedan. I hope Chrysler does well with this vehicle- they did their homework on this one and deserve to have a success.
A final encouraging note: Everywhere I drove this car I got hundreds of thumbs-up signs and dozens of questions everywhere I went. Even better, this car seemed to appeal to every age bracket, from Hip Hoppers to men in their 60's. Few women took notice (that I could tell) but men were all over this ride, and they all loved it. I had never gotten so much attention driving anything since I brought home one of the very first PT Cruisers.
I am thinking about purchasing an AWD version when it comes out.
My impression on a silver Magnum RT on the show room floor was a little overwhelming. I'm retired from a long history of racing motorcycles, so I'm older now and appreciate the potential I saw and the possibilities as well.
This car had a Nav system and a BOLD $3000 marketing adjustment sticker piled on top of the 34K sticker. In all, I spent 20 minutes going over the car, sitting in all the seats, going through every combination of seat positions.
I like the stance of the car, ground clearance is minimal even with the 18 inch tires. I expect these 225s would even work well in hard cornering. I'm not planning on auto crossing this car, looking for a better G machine than my current Escape.
Most of the body seams were straight, door and hood fit was excellent, my pet peeves. The electric seats (leather) could be adjusted to suit my 6'4" frame very well. An added benefit of the telescoping steering wheel lets me pull it way into my chest, just the way I like it. This was very comfortable for the 5 minutes I sat there making F1 racing noises, kidding.
I do like the overall layout, they've done a good job there. The interior seemed a little stark, the controls were in the right place for me. I will end up with the Magnum or 300C offering, it is just a matter of time.
Richard.
As for the 3.5L, it moves the car reasonably well, it is all what you are used to. The SXT has less acceleration than my current car (Bonneville SSEi). The 3.5L produces less torque and the car is heavier, so that makes sense.
The most tell thing for me, was my wife drove it and said it was okay, but felt slower than her car (Mazda 626 ES). Again a power to weight issue.
I ordered an RT. The Hemi will solve the power to weight problem easily.
1. The car is fast! Not neck snapping, but plenty of thrust.
2. Spacious but rather mundane interior. The light colored leather looks much better than the dark.
3. Steering was precise and nicely weighted. Handling seemed "nimble" for an almost 4000 lb. car.
To anyone considering a Magnum, by all means test drive one. I think you'll be impressed.