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How to properly break-in your new engine
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Things like engine parameters and rpms.
It takes a snapshot of the engine information every 5 seconds and then it downloads it all into your PC for you to view.
Basically, it is a tattle tale.
I'm waiting on the product to arrive to do a review on it, but it sounded very interesting.
Does anyone know where you can get info on the OBD2 connector and the signaling it uses? I bet I could build a rpm meter for $20 bucks. Which means a manufacturer could design and spec it as part of the instrument cluster for a few thousand, and the cost during manufacture would be negligible.
0patience: the product you're talking about would probably cover about 2 years for some people... a few months for some of us. I'd like to hear more about it.
I have no doubt that 2013 models will have built in diagnostics reporting and be able to report more than just total revs as standard features... probably on the nav display.
We are going to put it thru its paces and see what we can do to it, I mean with it. LOL!
Spleck, your question:
Does anyone know where you can get info on the OBD2 connector and the signaling it uses? I bet I could build a rpm meter for $20 bucks. Which means a manufacturer could design and spec it as part of the instrument cluster for a few thousand, and the cost during manufacture would be negligible.
Do I know where you can get info for OBD2 stuff?
Ha ha, is the sky blue?
If this doesn't cover it, let me know.
CarBytes and OBD diagnostics (top 2 links) are the best places for the experimental units and check out the links for hardware and cables.
We have alot of testing to do to it, but looks promising so far.
They have 2 models, a data logger and a data logger that can log codes and parameters.
That is very appealing to me.
The logger that can log codes is slated to sell for $179, which is in line with OBD2 code reader pricing.
I've installed it on a 99 Lumina to see what info it will log, then will be installing it on a few other vehicles for more info. The program to run it seems very simple to use and seems to work well, at least it hasn't locked up my PC yet. LOL!
I promised them I wouldn't give their name out until we had sufficiently checked it out.
It is just released onto the market.
I promise, I will provide more info later. LOL!
Actually, there will be a full article on it.
It is called CarChip and works really well.
We have tested it on several vehicles now and it works very well.
It also works as an OBD2 scantool. The bad thing is, when we need to test it on a vehicle with the CEL on, I can't seem to come up with one. LOL!
When the article is done, I'll let you know.
pity they are slipping around the corners at some Ford and GM nameplates and sliding in new CAN codes... hope these CarChips will have flashing ability for updates.
then again, if you don't have a solid UPS on your computer to hold it up at least 20 minutes with the power plug sitting in your lap, don't ever try flashing anything on it.
don't suppose they would send you, say, a dozen for tough-dog chasing tests before you post ???
Did find one vehicle that didn't like it so far.
A 2003 Ford F-450 diesel didn't care for it being plugged into it.
Tested it on several other 97-2003 vehicles and no problems.
It shows hard acceleration, hard braking, speeds, rpms and several other parameters that a person can choose from. O2 parameters were some that I found helpful. An interesting product. Not sure how they will handle updates, but since it hooks into the PC and downloads the info, I would imagine that updates would be handled the same way.
have seen a couple other quick reviews in dead-tree format... word is out on that.
The recommended method of breakin in an automotive engine is to go easy and vary your RPMs for the first thousand miles.
Why the difference? Has there ever been a conclusive study on engine break-in techniques?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
TB
stuff disturber
No easy going.
but if you REALLY want to, pour a couple handfuls of vacuum dust and lathe shavings into the air cleaner box, chain it to a tree, put a cement block on the accelerator, and come out to change the oil when the tone of the whining changes. it's just between you and the warranty examiner, after all.
I do miss not having a cassette though.
"If they switch to synthetic before the 5,000 miles, I void any and all warranty on the engine."
Why do you say this? Just wondering. I just bought a new PT Cruiser GT and want to go to synthetic asap. The manual doesn't give an interval to wait prior to changing over - it just says "if you're going to use synthetic, makes sure it's API approved".
Since synthetic reduces friction and the engine needs to create a wear pattern, if syntheitc is installed before a good wear pattern can take affect, then it is possible and I have seen, engines that wouldn't allow the rings to properly "seat".
If the engine hasn't "broke in" or "seated", then synthetic won't be helping it. The 5,000 mile mark has always been the mileage I used for breakin times.
Even synthetics do not eliminate wear, just reduce it (and some people, not me, might contest this, but let us assume it is true). So perhaps it is more logical to assume that the engine will take longer to break in with synthetic oil than it would with regular oil. Then why void "any and all" warranty?
I would love to hear from 0patience and zueslewis, amongst others, on this line of reasoning and its flaws if any. Thanks guys.
What Chevrolet does with Corvettes in their business - I'm not warranteeing those engines - 0patience does warranty his work and he can use whatever standards he wishes in doing so.
You'll notice that most Corvettes aren't used for daily commutes, they don't get miled up and I haven't seen one hit 100K yet, just because of the owner base and they way they're driven. Most folks either trade every year or two or drive limited miles.
So, isn't it more logical to assume that the engine will take longer to break in with synthetic oil than it would with regular oil, and thus at least be no worse or perhaps better off in the long run?
That is the question that I would like to have your esteemed opinions.
Please don't dismiss old school as not being logical and civil - that's completely disrespectful and serves no purpose.
0patience is right - the engine's piston rings and pistons don't seat in as well as when there is a little MORE friction initially. With synthetic added right away, unless the tolerances were incredibly close (most aren't), the rings and pistons would not seat correctly and there would be longevity problems.
I think the reasoning (whether right or wrong) is that the seals will never seat properly if syn were used too soon. Then the engine will leak oil throughout its life.
I strongly suspect this does not apply anymore to any modern engine, but I may be wrong.
So perhaps it is more logical to assume that the engine will take longer to break in with synthetic oil than it would with regular oil.
More than likely.
Then why void "any and all" warranty?
Because if it is an engine I build, It is my right to decide the warranty. I don't need any reason.
But to preach it as gospel may be an overreach.
I never preached it as gospel, only voiced my opinion from my experience, old school or not.
zueslewis: What would be the evidence to support the statement that "With synthetic added right away......the rings and pistons would not seat correctly and there would be longevity problems."
If there is still some wear with synthetics, as there must be, it may take longer, but everything should seal just as well eventually, no? The manual you quoted would support this contention, and that is written by the people designing the thing (colored more than a little by lawyers and marketing people).
0patience: Please note that I also said "I also respect 0patience's right to use whatever standards he applies to his work". Also, I appreciate your saying "only voiced my opinion from my experience" because I respect your opinions, but that doesn't lead me to accept them unquestioned. So please bear with me.
For what it's worth, and not that I have to say this, but I do respect old school opinions, and mean no disrespect. I do have an inquiring mind, and people with more experience should not assume that my questions are intended as disrespect simply because of "vocabulary". English is not my first language so please forgive me if my postings do not conform to a style more to your liking.
In a nutshell, I call it like I see and I see it a lot.
So, in your endless research and also enthusuastic hobby, have you come across any incident where excessive oil consumption caused by an improper break-in could be attributed to early use of synthetics?
If the use of synthetic oil is to be avoided for the first few thousand miles to allow wear patterns to develop (rings seating, whatever), why do some cars (like the Corvette) come from the factory with synthetic oil? Shouldn't they come from the factory with dino oil and then change to synthetic at the first oil change?
zues: Because English is not Vcheng's first language, his syntax tends to be a bit formal. This may sound to you like he's condescending, but reread his post #87. I find his manner more polite than 99% of the posters on Edmunds (myself included). I also noticed that his punctuation is nearly perfect. Again, better than most of us Americans. I know this is off topic. It's just that it amazes me that foreigners can learn to speak and write English better than we do.
I have never registered at any other automotive site other than Edmunds in my life, and never have been "terminated" for "trouble-making". That, sir, is slanderous! Please provide me with details to support your contention, and to spare other members of this forum, if you so agree and allowed by the host of this forum, at my public email address.
2. My use of Sir! is as polite and respectful as can be. (I went to military school and graduated with honors.) Please do not prejudge or misjudge me because of your negative firsthand experiences. If you look at my numerous postings over the years at Edmunds, you will not find me being impolite ever.
Lastly, this is a public forum where everybody is entitled to speak their opinions subject to the rules of the website, and I do not wish to defend myself any further.
I will limit myself to knowledge relating to break-in of engines here, and not comment any further on personalities. Think and do what you will.
PS: Not to forget my manners, i want to thank rubicon.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Incidentally, my 2002 Monte Carlo manual said that no extensive break in period was required but to vary the speed for the first 500 miles.
"It is not. I resent that. Slander is spoken; in print it's libel." - Mr. Jameson, Spiderman
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I have an Infiniti G35 Sedan. My owner's manual recommends the use of mineral-based oils. Would a manufacturer have any reason to say synthetics are bad for this engine, or would it just be a subtle attempt on their part to have me pay for more oil changes at the dealership? If switching to syntheic is fine, how long should one run dino to let wear patterns form, seat valves, etc. before switching to synthetic?
I've always believed that more oil changes are better regardless of the mileage intervals stipulated in the modern "owner's manuals" say.
One of my "sleds" is a PT Cruiser Turbo (with about 4,000 miles on it and is about 5 months old). Turbo engines generate a lot of heat, but I'm uncertain what the time intervals have to do with modern oil breakdown.
As for oil, and oil changes, as was discussed alot on several threads here, I have the 03 Accord V6 and am questioning the manual on when to change the oil. I'm coming up on 5,000 miles and am considering it, though that seems early by the manuals recommendations, and a bit late by the letter the dealer sent me. I've seen petitions on other threads relating to issues with Honda. Maybe we should petition them to give a final recommendation on when to change the oil. It rediculous that so much debate and emotion has erupted over an issue that only Honda really has the answer for - were they to weigh in once and for all.
And I know I must have used improper grammar in there a few places.
1st oil change @ 1k
All oil changes at 3k - DIY oil changes with dino-oil is just too cheap not to replace at 3k, imo.
No cruise till 500 miles. (hit that tomorrow on my '03, whew!) Of course a filter change at all oil changes.
Moderate acceleration and keep it under 70 mph for the first 500k.
Just got 31 mpg on my first tank of gas, not bad!(4 cyl/auto)
This arguement is mechanically sound to me, and it is the recommended break-in for an airplane engine.
Perhaps the car engines are run really, really hard for a very short duration at the factory, and upon delivery we're supposed to finish the break-in by running them a bit more calmly. That's as good of a hypothesis as I can come up with.
1. Only after engine is fully warmed up! ... during the *first 20 miles* run it hard (meaning over 4k rpm to put a load on the engine) using gears 2-4 with short bursts of hard acceleration and deceleration. After this, continue to vary the RPMs for 500 miles. He explains how this works on his site and says that breaking your engine in "easy" is the wrong way to go for proper ring seating.
2. Change the original oil *way* sooner than the manual says, like after 20-50 miles.
3. Don't go to synthetic until at least 1,500 miles. Synthetic is so slippery, it will arrest the break-in process. (I think 0patience's suggestion to wait until 5,000 miles is even better.)
Though primarily referring to racing bikes, Motoman says the same advice applies to all four-stroke engines, including cars.
Motoman continues the discussion about this method in more recent editions of his newsletter (about a third of the way down): http://www.mototuneusa.com/future_horsepower.htm ... (he could use a little help w/ web design) ... and here (about a third down): http://www.mototuneusa.com/the_factory_superbike.htm
Anyway, that's the claim. Some long-term tests on car engines (backed up w/ oil analysis) would go a long way toward making a believer out of me.
But I'll have to say, the conditions these race bikes endure are brutal to the extreme and simulate in one racing season the engine wear a normal driver wouldn't see until many, many thousands of miles. So, it does offer a compelling proving grounds for his claims.
-tom