Oil Flush....is this for real?

vcheng

Keeping in mind the host's instructions, here is my analysis on post number 48 by fmiller2 posted Apr 07, 2003 (10:46 am) in this forum.

"Guys and Gals using Auto-Rx. "

What made you think there were such people here in the first place? Or is it that you considered this to be a well attended forum with lively debate as another platform to market your dubious wares?

"Cutting open the filter is not the best indicator of the functionality of the RX product in a non sludged engine, IMHO. "

Cutting open a filter is not the best indicator of perhaps ANY product. Other than being messy, all it points to, in a very rough way, is the amount of material trapped by the filter over time. So, is it good that all that crud is not in the engine? Or does it mean that all the crud produced has been trapped, thus protecting the engine from it? Or simply that the filter should have been changed long ago?

"A better indicator is reduced oil consumption, lower emissions test levels, oil analysis tests that show INCREASED oxidation ( cleaning ) during use, reduced Nitration during and after use ( better combustion efficiency), and finally reduced wear values."

And pray tell us what is the evidence to support these scientific statements? Thinking people want to know.

"The reason the large oil companies don't want Auto-RX is that it is expensive to produce and the incentive to use effective and expensive high quality additives in not consistant with the competitive PCMO market."

Ah! the ever present conspiracy theories brought to us by the same people who have destroyed the magic 100 miles per gallon carburetor and the fuel line magnetizers to boost power! Anybody remember those?

"Another reason is that Auto-RX can be used effectively with lower cost oils to boost their performance but is not required every oil change thus reducing the repeat sales issues.The larger oil companies want cheap lubes that resell over and over quickly. I suspect many companies are checking out RX and I believe it will be sold in the future once it has become more accepted in the industry as a viable alternative to gummed up engines. "

Just more crap.

"Understand it was only patented last year."

And does this mean it is truly a product at the cutting edge of science with proven effectiveness? And if anybody here believes that, I think there is a bridge in New York I would like to sell to that person.

"Terry Dyson
Independent Oil Analyst"

Nice name. Probably not independent at all. Oil Analyst with an ulterior motive with questionable academic and professional credentials.

Fast forward to post #103 of 104 by fmiller2 posted Apr 11, 2003 (10:39 am)

"It's hard to tell on the internet who people are and why they do things, but your posts seem to add confusion where none existed before."

It is not very hard to see who you are and what you are trying to do here. You are right, there is no confusion. The attempt at obfuscating the issue (if this can be glorified as this) is yours not mine or zeus's or swschrad's.

" The last thing this fine board needs is yet another Auto-RX "expert". Your posts above in which you assemble prior threads will surely provide inaccurate information overload for someone just wanting a simple straightforward answer. "

By this definition anybody claiming to be an autoRx expert should just go crawl back to wherever they came from. Here's the simple straightforward answer: AutoRx is crap, and some people here are just attempting to swindle gullible people.

I hope that this fine board will continue just fine thank you very much.

armtdm

Can we get back to the topic if it has any life left in it at all. Both Terry and Frank, well, I have my issues with both of them (and I have dealt with both of them) but, quite honestly, they are being taken over the coals here. Terry really is very knowledgeable but there is no need to waste time discussing any of their virtues or faults or any of their products. So, let's get back to the topic at hand, slamming the dealers and quick lube places that promote the flush jobs to support a boat payment. If that topic is not dead let's hear of success or failure stories and or kill this thread and move on to friendlier issues.

to me the oil flushes and tranny flushes are both useless except as a last resort before a major repair job.

swschrad

I am not a holder of a professional engineer certificate, granted only by rigorous examination, in any state, and thus don't call myself an "engineer." it is a sore point with those who suffered mightily in many cases to master the extreme mathematics that are at the heart of engineering.

I don't believe my job functions qualify me in any way, either. I have journalism and computer science degrees, am practiced in both fields, and currently am one of a team of several dozen techs that maintains 14 states worth of common carrier data networks. I also used to do advertising in broadcast, and I easily recongnize exaggerations and twists of the facts to puff them up.

I have considerable OJT and field learning experience in electronics (have designed and built much of my own digital and analog test equipment over the years.) I have done enough of my own auto maintenance over the years on everything except the sealed drivetrain and engine internals to know when I'm over my head, and read the factory service manuals cover to cover in the process to cut the bull and get to the point with those who will be Plastigaging my crank.

I have been a voracious reader with a wide field and "why, why, how, why" guy all my life.

I did intend to pursue engineering, but drifted through my JHS and HS geometry and calc, and realized I did not have the fundamentals to compete there. I had wide enough interests so that was not a life's-end experience, just a challenge as to what I should be doing to maximize my interest quotient and thus see each day as a new start, not a freakin' dead end on the way to a laughable death.

so I don't have a dog in this fight... except... that unqualified claims of unproven miracles aren't facts, no matter how many ways you repeat them. that's Barnum's dog, and I like to see him whimper on home when he's been strutting through neighborhoods he doesn't - and can't - own.

might I refer folks to "Voodoo Science," a readable explaination of some of what constitutes as pseudo-realistic nonsense, and why the scientific method matters, by Robert Park, Washington director of the American Physical Society, who stepped down from a department chairmanship to take the national post. "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynmann," by Robert Feynmann is said to be even more illustrative of common foibles passed off as science, but I have yet to find a copy myself of this classic from the 50s.

again... it's a free country, have your fun. try to sell me, get your facts, studies, and peer-review in order, you will need to. I also trust we can move forward with most everybody's bona fides in the open.

on oil flushes... I have beheld goo, I want it washed into a pan for the recyclers'. the only way you're going to get it all out of the blind alleys in an engine is with the engine opened up and using a washer nozzle to spray it out.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, let's get back to the Gereral Topic.

I may have to invite some of you to rewrite your posts and edit out the personal parts--but you won't lose your posts entirely. You may have to repost it after I send it to you.

If any of you want to review your remarks, cut and paste your posts and repost them without the nasty parts, please feel free to do so.

The 30-minute EDIT button Edmunds provides is SO HANDY--I use it all the time!

Shifty the Host

rubicon52

Don't understand the open hostility and suspicion. If there is both a patent AND a patient on it, it must be an effective dual purpose product with both automotive and medical applications. Makes sense to me. "Auto" refers to the automotive application and "RX" refers to the medical application. Didn't an earlier poster quote a respected medical journal as saying this product was a proven, effective treatment for the effect of fried lard balls on human health? And we all know that the evil oil companies only suppress effective products like the gazillion mile per gallon wonder carburetor. If my Chevy Surburban had the wonder carburetor I wouldn't be going broke paying for gas. And I don't want to hear any pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo from you cynics like "mass times acceleration" or "Newton's laws of motion" to explain my poor gas mileage. If you guys are as smart as you think you are, you'll get this stuff from Pep Boys for $9.95 because we all know the hospitals are going to charge, like, $995.00 for the same product!

zueslewis

tboner

Can get it at the hospital for $645, and my co-pay is only $50, is that a good deal?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

TB

fmiller3

Terry says it quite clearly.

Guys and Gals the oxidation DIFFERENCE you see between oil and oil with Auto-RX added is the cleaning process not the oil oxidizing. Oil does oxidize but will at a lot slower rate if there isn't any dirt or carbon to start the process.

On the Edmunds Board 2 smart alecs have derided my testing based on their ignorance of this attribute ( and oil analysis in general judging from their statements)in internal combustion engines and Auto-RX usage.

Inert Auto-RX will NOT! NOT! degrade the host oil in any way. Its cleaning dirt and carbon not the oil. That does help the oil do its job, lubricate !

Inhibited Solvent based adds like LC will neutralize oxidation but if used at too high a treat rate can degrade the oil.

Auto-RX won't at all, at any treat we have seen.

B12 is rough stuff with almost 0 lubricity and I won't use it in a crankcase of an engine I like.

Its pretty tough in the gasoline, I prefer the FP for that as it is oily.

Hope that sheds some light as I'm traveling alot and not able to get to a internet connection at all times.

Thank all of you again sales just skyrocketed after your "comments"

vcheng

Well, good for you. There will always be a supply of the gullible and the ignorant who will try out your potions, and that I can never change.

What I can do is to educate people wherever I can, and learn myself wherever the opportunity affords itself.

zueslewis

I'm far from ignorant, by the way. Keep the stuff personal and you'll have 4-5 people talking to the hosts about the fact that you're rude AND still peddling your junk on this forum.

vcheng, swschrad, why doesn't this guy just GO AWAY?

swschrad

ain't my day to watch out for him. tomorrow's not my day, either

if you want your engine wax in cans, not candles, jump on this stuff.

if you don't want ANY, you know what to do.....

you won't get rid of it with a solvent flush, not all of it, either.

vcheng

Because hustlers must hustle! That is the way they make money, not from educated people like zueslewis and swschrad (and me) but from those who perhaps can afford it less easily.

I am sure that the forum moderater will take notice as soon as he or she finds the time.

0patience

The thing a person needs to remember with any flushing additive, is that the crud has to go somewhere. Usually the lowest point in the engine, which coincidentally is the oil pump pickup screen. Hopefully, you can see where this is going.
While some folks seem to think that mechanics tell them not to use some of these products so that they have to come see them and cost them money.
As a mechanic, myself and other mechanics, such as Alcan, try and help folks save money. Very few additives are worth the money. Some do more harm, than good, because they give a false sense of security and don't really do much.

Bottom line is, don't believe everything you read or hear. Use good judgement and common sense.
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

rubicon52

Doesn't surprise me that RX Auto sales are up. Whenever a new miracle product appears that is critisized by people like Zues and Vcheng (you know, people with years of experience in the industry, multiple degrees, that sort of thing) I immediately go out and buy it. Don't be fooled by these naysayers. Remember, these are the same people who claimed a fine product like snake oil doesn't work.

swschrad

my snakes have never been slipperier, and have never had such a dewy look before! so I just sent off for the special, two months, TWO! for just 29.95......

lrdavis

" 'Terry Dyson
Independent Oil Analyst'

Nice name. Probably not independent at all. Oil Analyst with an ulterior motive with questionable academic and professional credentials."

-- Dyson Analysis is an independent proprietary testing consulting firm that Auto-Rx hired to perform field trials on a fee basis.
 
Dyson tests on a fee basis for many different entities that are generally confidential in nature.
 
The fact that Dyson allows the business name to be used with Auto-Rx is a strong reflection of the efficacy of the Auto-Rx product.
 
Dyson Analysis sells nothing but test interpretation on an unbiased basis.

0patience

Why do you think the folks over at Bob's Oil board are raving about it? That place is full of chemists, engineers, tribologists and other scientific folks. They looked at the chemistry and examined the real-world feedback and concluded that the product was for real.
Chemists, engineers and other scientific folks don't generally see these things in real world situations.

Dyson Analysis is an independent proprietary testing consulting firm that Auto-Rx hired to perform field trials on a fee basis.
independent proprietary?? That in itself is a contradiction. Not sure I understand that.
Again, it would depend on what testing was done.
Real world situations are almost never the same as lab results. Many different situations come about that can create all kinds of problems.

We fought with a chemical problem on some oil a while back. The manufacturer kept stating that it was a problem with our engines, when the culprit was a chemical reaction between sea air (moisture) and the oil. The problem only really showed itself in oil analysis, but according to the "experts", this couldn't happen.

96_i30_5sp

is well known at bobistheoilguy.com. People pay him an extra $15 to give them his opinion on their oil analysis results after Blackstone labs tests the sample. I personally feel it's a waste of money as one could get the same advice for free by posting the oil analysis results in that forum. I can't judge for his credentials or that of Frank Miller (coinventor of Auto-Rx and active participant in that forum) but they seem to turn a blind eye to some obvious nonsense. For example, there are people who are putting Auto-Rx in brand new engines for "good measure" and the "experts" have not discouraged that one bit.

0patience

Interesting.
Caterpillar has state of the art labs and their SOS oil analysis is $17 per analysis.
They provide a 1-800 number for you to call to have them explain any part of the oil analysis to you. If there is anything on the analysis that flags the report, they call you on the phone to tell you what they found and provide you with recommendations as to what the best course of action is.
So I have to wonder to myself, why would someone pay the cost of the analysis to someone to get an opinion from them, when they can pay that to an accredited manufacturer who has the best labs money can buy and they will provide real time, over the phone answers?
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Mr_Shiftright

I might also add, and not to reflect upon any names mentioned here, that there is really no relationship between the quality of a person's credentials and the quality of his ethics. Some of the world's greatest geniuses have not been terribly trustworthy people. Hey, that just reminded me of Jurassic Park and Darth Vader.

vcheng

Other people are of course free to disagree, and spend their money on anything they deem useful or desirable.

armtdm

As noted previously, I don't agree 100% with Frank or Terry but in Terry's defense and his interpretations well, he provides what none of the other labs do. Your cat lab will provide some basic interpretation of results etc. what Terry can provide is in depth knowledge of specific engines, models, years and interpret if the wear metals for your engine are out of line with that specific engine based upon his experience as well as how you drive your car and what your climate is etc. You will not get that expertise from Blacsktone, Analysts, Inc. Cleveland Testing or Catapillar. They do not know how various engines wear and if they do may not be willing to share it. Is it worth the extra 15, like everything on this board it is what makes you comfortable. Some change oil every 3000 I don't agree but if it makes you comfortable I will not crucify you for you beliefs.

As many who have done analysis know it takes 15,000-30,000 miles for an engine to finish breaking in and the wear metals to normalize. Especially copper in GM engines, some lead and of coarse silicon, etc. Some suggest that using RX on a new engine removes all these manufacturing wear metals quickly and the engine is then free to operate without the contamination in the future. It is true or does it work I don't know but there is reasoning as to why some are suggesting it. It is not 100% geared to more sales.

And, based upon personal discussions with Terry he is pretty damn ethical and honest as he feels he needs to be to stay in business for he feels without his reputation for ehtics he would not be around long.

Many snake oils claim independent lab results etc but never ever name the lab or who did the testing. Many name brands do the same like RedLine and Amsoil, who did the independent test, you will never know.

I don't agree with Frank or Terry all the time but RX does post who did the testing and Terry is available to answer questions on what he did. He will also admit as to what he did not test for or perform

vcheng

...let's take the statement by lrdavis that "The fact that Dyson allows the business name to be used with Auto-Rx is a strong reflection of the efficacy of the Auto-Rx product."

How so? Please educate me whether product endorsements by well known people are proof of efficacy, or whether there is merely a mutually beneficial business (usually financial) arrangement?

swschrad

and there's nothing wrong, slippery, or illegal about it. you just have to understand, up front, that Joe Namath doesn't do ads for arthritis remedies solely from his gratitude... Michael Jordan doesn't rent out his name on $200-plus sneakers solely because he wants to be remembered...

and Mr. Dyson's complimentary work for and recommendation of Auto-RX is a fee for service transaction. that's cool. but understand the relationship before building your altar.

armtdm

And I thopught I was the world's worst cynic!!! I don't believe Terry endorses the product he just states what he has tested and what the outocmes were. I also am fairly certain there are no financial arrangements there.

However, I also concur that the the association of two companies or groups does not make it a good product. Just like the UL stamp on electrical components does not make it a good product, it may be safe but not necessarily good. Same with Consumer Reports or Car and Diver for that matter. And Car and Driver I swear has a financial arrangement with BMW but that's my opinion.

Even Edmunds was accused a while back of having financial arrangements. Comes with the territory I guess. But, I would rather know who tested a product then simply "TESTED AND APPROVED BY AN INDEPENDENT LAB"

zueslewis

not IN Canada. Canadian case law does not set precedence and is non-referral for cases in the US.

I'd be a billionaire if I sued everyone here on Edmunds who contradicted my opinions, considering rendering automotive opinions is my job and career.

Mr_Shiftright

Okay...the topic seems to be drifting rather badly.

We should be talking about the process or the science of oil flushes, not the personalities involved.

Any post promoting a commercial site will be deleted if the poster is involved with the site, as per our rule against "solicitation".

Any off topic posts on legal issues, etc. will also be deleted as per our rule against "off topic posting".

I'll try to get back on topic in the next post.

Shiftright the Host

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes when I hear see really intense discussions about oil flush and additives, etc, I have to wonder if the point isn't really moot.

Unless you are running fleet service, it seems to me anyway, rather obvious that a modern engine will run very nicely up to 200K if you give it good oil, filters and drive it with some degree of common sense. You don't need oil analysis or flushing or additives, as any New York taxicab can tell you. With industrial or commercial vehicles, where 500K + miles are expected, perhaps a more drastic form of maintenance is called for. But a 3 year old Saturn getting its oil analyzed and engine flushed seems over the top to me, as the rest of the car isn't probably going to make it to 200K anyway. A car is way more than just an engine, so what's the point of this extra money and effort?

swschrad

I can't see even in severe service where a > maintained < engine is going to build up enough creepy goo to require a flush, disassembly, magic beans and fairy dust, or anything else. that means at least as often as recommended for your use level by the car maker, you change the oil and filter, using the right grade of product, and you consult your mechanic if all of a sudden it starts acting or sounding real funny.

it's a profit machine for the shop that has a flush machine, whether or not it does anything useful. at worst, if there is a bunch of creepy goo in the galleys or on top, it's doing to drop all that slop into the pan to starve out the oil, as 0patience suggested a while back.

if you do go for it, pull the engine, drop the goldarn pan afterwards and clean up the strainer. it's no different than a sealed transmission flush... if you don't get the dirt out afterwards, what have you done except shuffle the deck chairs on the Titanic? at worst, you kick the evil crud into an area where it can do immediate damage on start-up.

I pass on the option.

Mr_Shiftright

I've taken apart a lot of older engines, and I am amazed how well they ran and long they lasted given what I used to see inside of some of them. With modern engines, which are so much better in every way (except maybe simplicity), I just can't imagine a little crud slowing them down very much. Besides, I'm equally amazed when I break down a modern engine (or rather watch someone else do it these days), how clean they are after 150K miles.

I remember once taking apart a Slant Six engine that has so much sludge in it that the valve cover gasket acted like a jello mould. It was literally a brick of sludge covering the rockers. The engine actually ran pretty good, just some blow by and lihgt tappet noise.

vcheng

...of using flushes as a routine or preventative measure on a regularly maintained engine should be accepted. The only case one may make is a desperate last resort use in a dying engine.

I missed post 130, but I am sure I didn't miss anything of importance as the hosts took care of it.

What I regard as being important in this whole issue of oil flushes is that there is a lot of financial benefit in misleading people, and it just continues to work: Slick 50, Zmax, 100 mpg carburetors, fuel magnetizers, the Tornado etc etc. using pseudoscience televised on late night cable.

I would like to see Edmunds maintain its excellent repository of information and lively, scientific debate, and my thanks to the hosts, and most contributors. I just pity those who would try to misuse this forum for their own purposes for they will be analyzed and appropriately treated.

zueslewis

the guys who are using $10 a quart wonder oil, having it analyzed and all that, on a vehicle they'll trade in 3-4 years and 75,000 miles anyway - what a seriously misguided waste of time.

armtdm

the guys who are using $10 a quart wonder oil, having it analyzed and all that, on a vehicle they'll trade in 3-4 years and 75,000 miles anyway - what a seriously misguided waste of time.

However, everyone has their hobby and toy projects, some go to excess with a sport, some with a boat some with a house of 10,000 sq.ft for two people, some go to fitness cneters but smoke a pack a day and the list goes not.

All of the above I would also consider a waste of my time so it is whatever floats your boat.Hmm, this board it moving to the top of that list!

Mr_Shiftright

Oil flushing kind of reminds me of something like Colonics for Cars.

I remember at a party once this guy telling my friend, a trauma surgeon, how a colonic loosened up some "rock hard material" in his intestine that had been "trapped there for years".

The doctor tried to tell him he would have been dead years ago but this guy just wanted to believe what he wanted to believe, and no doubt got a great placebo hit off his "flush". (and perhaps some real benefit, who knows? But what he didn't get was chunks of rock-like "toxins" from his gut).

vcheng

swschrad

but it doesn't, so they won't. I'm on the list for one of the just-approved Cypher stents, so I should get the appointment-setting call for that excitement soon. it's actually a rod-out and tube liner for the driver, not the radiator.

that ought to get me through the next two or three cars, at least... and I keep mine a long time

vcheng

You are a riot!

Good luck with your health, and I hope you continue to frequent these fora for a long time to come.

vcheng

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html

swschrad

and thanks for the good wishes... the odds of "adverse events" in any angiocatheter procedure seem to stay right around 1 in 10,000, but I have done well in three previously, so no serious indications against the odds have appeared to date.

time to go to the gym for regular exercise, which frankly in the long term does a darn sight more good than one more overpriced sewer liner in my heart. but getting past those short-term effects is also useful to ALLOW measurement of long-term effects

harop

I wish I could get same type of detailed
information about Fuel Injector Cleaners.
I tried google search, but found no real info,
like the one in #143 for Oil Additives.
I did search in edmunds disscussions too.
May be someone can open a new disscussion.

fleetwoodsimca

Look out! I'm saying it again! The way to clean the interior of an engine is to disassemble it and start desludging with a spatula. >:o]

Mr_Shiftright

I asked my friends at Hi-Tec automotive, who rebuild Porsche engines exclusively, and his response to engine flushes was: "Why go looking for trouble?".

ray_h71

So, Mr._Shiftright, is your assessment of the guy who swore by the colonic that he -was- full of it, or that he -still- is?...

I also subscribe to the notion that over-the-top obsession with designer oils and additive-of-the-month products are a waste of money. However, I also see some value in periodic oil analysis. There are some silent problems that oil analysis can pinpoint well before they result in damage. I make it a point to have an analysis done yearly. While I peruse wear metals results, what I'm particularly interested in is the presence of significant sodium and silicon in an engine well past break-in. Sodium is a constituent in some sealants applied during manufacture, so in a new engine, it's probably no cause for alarm. But, sodium is also a constituant of coolant antifreeze, so past break-in, the presence of significant sodium would be a yellow flag that there could be coolant contamination of the oil. By the time water shows up on the dip stick or inside the oil filler cap as a milky froth, there may already be bearing damage. Silicon can also be a constituent of applied sealants. But, silicon is also a major constituent of good ol' dirt. So, past break-in, its presence would be suspect of an incomplete seal in the intake system, or a clogged or defective air filter. A clogged air filter would be a no-brainer visually, but a small tear could be very hard to detect. There are various oil analysis companies that now cater to the non-fleet user. Typically all they charge is about $20.00 and they'll send a free sampling kit on request. Most send an email of their results within 48 hrs with a follow-up snail mail within a week and a half. Conventional dinosaur juice oils are undeniably better than they've ever been, but engines are undeniably harder on oil than they've ever been, too. I figure that $20.00 a year is a small price to pay for a bit of peace of mind, and very well worth it if I get a heads up of pending trouble. That's less than the cost of a tank of gas. Just a couple of thoughts to consider. Be well, all.

swschrad

0patience regularly sends oil from big hog diesels to analysis from his fleet, and it makes good sense to me.

myself, the old procrastination bug has me, especially since I don't see "test me!" kits on the shelf to make it easy to send in a sample. it would be nice to chart... however, since I exceed in all cases and greatly exceed in others the manufacturers' suggested maintenance, it's not likely to show me I'm missing something important.

surely makes more sense periodically taking this checkup that to pour all kinds of OrblSlop (tm) at scalpers' prices into the crankcase and try to flush goo that isn't likely to be directly reached by a flushing machine for big money each time.

I can stand on a bridge and tear up $20 bills to the same effect.

vcheng

Don't tear up those $20 bills, send them to me!

swschrad

you want the ones with the picture of Daffy Duck on them, or the ones with the picture of Groucho on them? those are about the only ones I'm seeing, lately

Mr_Shiftright

Well let's say your oil analysis does show a problem. What can you do about it anyway, an exploratory tear-down?

In fleet service, decisions one makes based on oil analysis has a huge effect on many vehicles, but for one car, what effect can you produce over the normal life of the car? Our cars aren't like big fleet trucks, they aren't expected to run 500,000 miles. They aren't built for it.

0patience

I agree with Mr Shiftright, but the oil analysis can be a tool to use. I wouldn't use it regularly on an automotive application, but in some instances, where you suspect something, like a leaking injector or coolant getting into the oil or something like a timing chain coming apart, the analysis could point you in the right direction, to let you know that you need to do a tear down, especially if you are the person who will do the work.

swschrad

or if you have a heavy shop and ten other cars running, you could decide it's time to play with the internals on this one. got a guy at work with 30 cars stored at the folks' place just waiting his time to tear them down and fix all the piston slaps and buzzing trannies and such. being an apartment dweller with no power in the garage, I don't go there

Mr_Shiftright

WEll, that's true, as a diagnostic tool for an elusive problem that already exists, I could see the value of an oil analysis---however, I can't offhand think of a diagnostic situation that couldn't be handled by more immediate means--liek pressure testing or a CO test in radiator water, etc.