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'98 Intrepid starting to use oil already

bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
edited March 2014 in Dodge
I just noticed our Intrepid (2.7 litre engine) has started using oil at 63K miles. I'm ruling out the types and brands of oil and oil filters I've used as causing the problem. I've never gone more than 3K miles on dino, or 6K synthetic for oil change intervals, and I've always used either Puralator PureOne or Mobil 1 filters. This leads me to believe the problem is caused either by the K&N air filter, or by DC themselves. I've learned since my purchase of the K&N, that they don't filter as well as OEM filters. I'm wondering if the filter has caused this problem, or is this engine just one more poorly built product by DC? They've had so many over the years, it wouldn't surprise me. Are any of you folks having oil consumption problems with your Intrepids?
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I dipped the stick on our 1996 Concorde the other day, with near 3K on the oil and filter. It showed almost a quart low on the 6 quart crankcase. It's a 3.5L V6 with only 23+K miles on it (Granny's car). I'm a bit puzzled. I don't recall ever having to top it up ever before.
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Nobody else is having this problem? I guess I got a Monday car.
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    vidtechvidtech Member Posts: 212
    what is your oil consumption?
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...my '00 Intrepid now has about 74,000 miles on it, and the only time it ever came up really low was one time the drain plug came loose. It was about a quart low, and thankfully I caught it in time. I think the only other time I had to add oil, the most I've ever had to add is maybe 1/2 a quart.

    How much oil are you using? I've heard that it's not uncommon for some engines to use up to 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles and it's considered "normal". Only time I've ever had a car use that much oil though, was when it was leaking somewhere!
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    work MUCH better than OEM - filtration and flow.

    What's your consumption rate? 2.7s have had crank sensor seal and cam seal issues - look there first.
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ......about a week ago while I was at the gas station for a fill up. The car has never used a drop between changes (even using 6K change intervals with synthetic). Now all of a sudden, it's a quart low. Hard to tell what the consumption rate is, but now I'll be keeping a closer eye on things.

    zueslewis - I don't think you'll get any arguments in here about the K&N outflowing OEM filters, but I think you'll get plenty of arguments about whether it filters as well. In fact, I think the general consensus is that it doesn't filter as well as OEM filters.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I've run dyno tests when I was with Super Shops that proved superior filtration (micron testing equipment in place).

    I was in San Bernardino, CA when several performance companies leased a dyno house to run proving tests - I was really happy to be around all that.
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    dutch_boydutch_boy Member Posts: 1
    My '98 Intrepid had the engine drop out at 111,000 km. It needs a new block or replace with a used engine. Either way cost of parts and labour is $6000. I'm exploring my options and from what I've found out so far this engine has major problems and they are starting to drop like flies. I'm hoping Chrylser will put things right for me, or it will be the last one I buy and I'll go on an anti-Chrysler campaign with anyone I talk to. Are you listening Chrysler?
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    as a former DCC service manager, I (under the table) recommended that option to folks who were out of warranty and very often DCC would step up and replace and engine or transmission with the owner paying a deductible. It's certainly worth a call.
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    pmack220pmack220 Member Posts: 1
    i had a 99 dodge intrepid that i traded in yesterday for a 2002 nissan altima. unfortunately i only got 1600$ for my trade cuz my engine failed after only 66k miles. from what i understand, the 2.7 gets really hot and burns oil inside the engine. alot of people have had problems with the engine "sludging up". chrysler knows that it is a problem, but if you cannot provide proof of oil changes every 3,000 miles they wont do anything for you - by the way, the oil changes must have been done at the dealer!!! my trep has been in the shop more in the last 6 months than imaginable. June- AC recharge 80$, July- engine fan motor replacement 350$, August- AC recharge w/ dye 120$, September- Cam and crank position sensors 400$, October- drivers window fell down into door needed to be completely replaced 200$, December 28th vehicle picked up after AC compressor replacement 680$, December 29th engine failure 5700$ estimate, January 6th- Nissan Altima! I called chrysler twice and their response was " there's nothing we can do because of the vehicles mileage, these things happen." yeah whatever, if a dodge were on fire, i wouldn't spit on it to put it out.
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    .....is people continue to buy DC products. It'll be a cold day in he11 before I buy another one. They make some nice looking vehicles, but until they start building cars that'll hold up like the imports, I'm not touching them.
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    swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    because if you need 'em to prove a point, and you don't have 'em, you have to go through a lot of hoorah in real court to subpoena the maintenance records from the dealer. assuming they didn't decide when you filed the case that it was time to purge the creepy old crap off the computer.... remember, it ain't illegal if they shred before they are ordered not to. immoral, communistic, and spawned by the devil maybe, but you have to prove your own case.

    as for DC customer dissatisfaction, eventually it will bite them. HOW eventually depends on whether they are paying attention to customer complaints and warranty requests and media attention. if they are, they will change. if they aren't, they will drive toyotas to the unemployment line and wonder why.
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I have never met with the resistance from CHRYSLER people that is reported here. Those of you with recent experiences-- would you characterize the refractory attitudes as products of the merger with Daimler? Over a period of three decades, my overall assessment is that I have gotten along BETTER with Chrysler than with either of the other two of the Big Three. I am finding evidence favoring Ford Corporation to be mounting and moving up in my overall estimation. These are important considerations for us to look over, before each of us next wanders into the market place to buy our next vehicle.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    it during the transition.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    Well, because some people still have good luck with them! I've got about 74,500 miles on my '00 Trep now, with the 2.7 V-6, and haven't had any major problems yet. I change the oil myself, so I know what's going into it, and see what the old oil looks like as it's coming out. I also check the dipstick regularly to make sure it doesn't get low, and I have the tranny serviced every 30,000 miles.

    If I had bad luck with Chryslers, trust me, I wouldn't keep buying them!
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...I don't know if it's been good for Chrysler or not. When I was at the auto show the other week, the build quality on most of the Chrysler products there looked like it's actually slipped a bit, compared to my Intrepid. They were still noticeably better than the Ford and especially GM products, but it seems Chrysler always has problems getting their doors to line up correctly.
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    c01c01 Member Posts: 28
    Because they are first timers and have not experienced the "Chrysler" experience, or they are zealots that are deaf dumb and blind to the "Chrysler " quality problems ie the "Bush" factor.
    Pmack: Congrats on your decision to go with the Altima--excellent auto and in five years it will be worth much more than a lowly decrepit of the same age.
    Dutchboy ditch that thing--and remember to tell everyone you can about your experience with the Decrepit. A good place to pass along the info is in the Intrepit topic in sedans, although it might be inactive, I haven't checked for some time. In the past a few Chrysler Huggers posted in that forum.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...the only Chrysler product I had that had any major problems was an '88 LeBaron, but it was my ex-wife's and had over 100,000 miles on it by that time. In constrast, my Mom & stepdad had a '91 Stanza that needed major work by around 90,000 miles, and their '99 Altima crapped its tranny at 35,000 miles.

    Oh, and my roommate's grandmother has a 2001 Altima with a problem that I thought the manufacturers cleared up decades ago...water leaks!

    But, through all that, I don't go around bad-mouthing the Altima and calling all of them crap, or people who buy them stupid.

    Trust me, if my Intrepid was a POS, I'd unload it.
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    tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    How DC's quality issues are the fault of the Bush administration as alluded to by message #18.

    I personally think free markets are the best thing to ultimately produce the best vehicles, not protectionist policies.

    TB
    I've owned three pre-DC Mopar's.
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    lexus_onelexus_one Member Posts: 22
    Problems with the pre Daimler offering from Chrysler are as common as American apple pie. The post Daimler offering has been improving although the Intrepid cannot be salvaged. The name will be retired and for a large group of previous owners its good riddance.
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Does the general populace here feel that the undesirability of the Intrepid washes over onto the Chrysler Concorde (twin)? My 1996 has had a few problems that are essentially maintenance, but it has only 24K on the clock.
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    swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    it's always color schemes, amount of noiseproofing, the way they print the brochures. if the insipid is a burner, the concorde motel (ewwww) is a burner.

    you might get a different transmission or engine or changes in the suspension system between a lux-twin and the standard-twin, like audi/VW or lexus/toyota, but if they've got the same parts, you've got the same expectations.

    between detroilet brand-twins, expect no real differences. there are maybe a hundred different parts out of some 5000, tops, between them, and rarely in the running gear.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...the Concorde was actually more similar to the Intrepid than it is today. They had the same interior and exterior dimensions back in '96, whereas the current Concorde is about 4-5" longer, and has a few inches more legroom in back. Same 113" wheelbase, but the back seat is pushed back further between the rear wheels.

    I believe the current Concorde weighs about 100 lb more than the Intrepid, but I doubt that's enough to put any additional strain on the engine/tranny.

    Sometimes, one twin will be more reliable than another if it's built at a different factory. For instance, with GM, the Impala and Century/Regal always seemd to be put together better than the Grand Prix/Intrigue. The Chevy/Buicks are built in Canada, and the Pontiac/Olds, Kansas.

    Way back in the old days, a more expensive version of a car usually got you a better car. For instance, back in the '50's, a more expensive Chrysler or DeSoto usually got you a Hemi or big block, compared to a cheaper Dodge or Plymouth, which was more likely to come with a 6-cyl or the more antiquated wideblock. The pricier models were also more likely to have a 3-speed Torqueflite, as opposed to the 2-speed Powerflite. That's all ancient history though. The Concorde/300M matches the Intrepid engine for engine, and tranny for tranny (unless they've limited autostick availability). And even with the high-output V-6, the only difference between the Chrysler and Dodge comes at 90-100% of wide-open throttle, and that's more computer programming than engine differences.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and moved its badge onto the larger body style of the LHS, but it's still the same family. Engine and transmission, as well as most other components are identical between the Concorde, LHS and Intrepid.

    The 300M is nearly identical to the Intrepid R/T, including most wiring harnesses.
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    The generalizations about these closely similar vehicles are interesting, yet not indicting. My observations over many years come down to this: Some folks have a lot of trouble with various cars, and it tends to be repetitive in their lives. Some folks seem to get along very well with most any car they buy, and don't experience the big troubles reported by their counterparts.
    One secret to success is don't keep many of these contraptions beyond, say, 80K... [;^/
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    My Intrepid's going to be at 80K in a few months! Actually, I'll be happy as long as it hits 100,000 miles around the same time it's paid off. The extended warranty is up at 100K, and after that point, I figure if it does blow an engine or drop a tranny, I won't have to worry about owing money on a non-running car.

    I knew a guy with a Ford Probe that was in a situation like that. He bought a '94 in early '97, and financed it for 5 years. The tranny went out the first time while it was still under warranty. The second time though was at 86K, and I think he still owed about 2 years on the car. He couldn't afford to get it fixed, so it just sat in front of his parents' house and he kept making payments on it until he finally had the money.

    One thing I can't stand is having to make car payments AND sink money into major repairs! Give me one or the other, but not both at the same time!
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    If you don't want both, I'd suggest staying away from DC products. I plan to stay as far away as I can get!
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    c01c01 Member Posts: 28
    BOTTGERS: Excellent idea. I too wouldn't touch a DC offering with a 3m pole. A downside to the takeover is that the previously high reputation of the Daimler offerings are now tainted by the perception of low quality that clings to the Cryco side.
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I mean, like, really harsh, Dude... !

    What about JEEP? It remains Daimler Chrysler. A friend was test driving a Liberty today, and I went along for the ride (literally).
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...that Chrysler's warranty claims on the 2002 models are costing about 20% less than they did a year ago on the 2001 models. So either they ARE improving them, or they're finding cheaper ways to fix them! (or denying more claims!)
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    but I've seen 6 cases so far where they've shelled their transmissions (autos). They are using the same basic model as is found in the Cherokee and the base Grand Cherokee.
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Any chance those 6 cases were first year problems? I am hoping here that the 2003 model is improved (typical new model changes in response to early build failings).
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    swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    ran into a guy with a months-old liberty at the car wash who just gushed over it, excellent surprise, best vehicle he's had in years.

    could be another case of even-serials are good and odd-serials suck, just the luck of the draw on which axle truck your parts came off of. those problems can be fixed if a maker decides they are going to be fixed... and occasionally, they can be fixed darn near overnight by melting down the phone line to the appropriate executive at a supplier..
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I haven't seen a 2003 anything yet.
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    c01c01 Member Posts: 28
    J.L. Where have you been, as an automotive expert you must know many of the 2003 models have been out since last autumn.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    What he means, is that he hasn't seen any 2003 lemon law cases yet.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    it takes 6-12 months for problems to crop up and warrant filing a complaint.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...have you ever heard of a common problem of the thermostat housing leaking on the 2.7? Mine developed a small leak in it, and my mechanic replaced it around 51,000 miles, when I also had new back brakes and spark plugs put on. My mechanic said it was a pretty common problem, and that they'd done it a few times before.

    My 'Trep is the highest-mileage 2nd-gen LH car that my mechanic sees regularly, so I think they view mine as a benchmark to gauge what the others might do.

    The thermostat housing was a $209 repair by the mechanic..something like $75 for the part and the rest labor. A far cry from back in the day when I got one for my Dart for $5 out of the junkyard and put it on myself!
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    leaks on the 2.7s, but not the t-stat specifically. There are usually more than one leak in the manifold so they replace it instead of just the gasket.

    T-stats aren't as easy to get to as they used to be, that's for sure.

    I replaced mine in my Mustang (an '86!!) and it took well over an hour.
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    A year ago I replaced my thermostat in my 1999 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6 (German pushrod) with a new (Thompson made?) NAPA thermostat. I think the cost was $6.00, and I spent a morning working on it, along with other tinkering. This replacement requires a bunch of stuff to be moved out of the way to get down to the housing. I had a similar "early failure" of the thermostat in my 1993 Explorer, same engine. I traded the Explorer in on the Ranger, and had the privilege of replacing that same German thermostat in both vehicles!
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...the 4.0 was German! It's not based on that old 2.8 that was in the Capri back in the '70's, is it?
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    This engine is based on a brilliant Teutonic dream. It is a great mill. More recent iterations of it are now overhead cam, and that "changes everything." I like the pushrod version.
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    .......they'll be up to sucks in no time!
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    fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I'm thinking you need to trade your car off! You get a bad one, now and then, and have to move on...
    ,-._,-.
    \/)"(\/
    .(_o_)
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...my '00 now has one! It's a minor one, though. Went to change the oil yesterday, and ended up rounding off the drain plug! I got a new one from the dealership last nite and, what a shock, it was actually cheaper to get the original Mopar part than the aftermarkets crap from the chain stores (that wasn't in stock anyway!)

    Tonite's going to be the fun part...getting the old drain plug out. I may be offline for a few days, while my busted knuckles have a chance to heal ;-)
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    the best way I found was to file two sides flat and clamp on with a big pair of vise grips.

    Of course, you could use a cutting torch if you're into that....
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ......I know I need to get rid of this piece of junk, but I can't trade it in. I'd have to pay a dealership to take it! I'll have to sell it to a private party. Yes, I'll feel bad for selling them this POS, but I can't afford to lose any more money on this thing. It's someone else's turn.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    ...can I have the drain plug? ;-)

    Did you buy this car used? I can't remember if you mentioned that before or not. Do you still owe anything on it? I guess if it's paid off at least, and you can't find a dealership or sucker-er I mean buyer for it, you could always donate it to a charity and write it off on your taxes. Depending on what bracket you're in, that might actually come out better than trying to sell it outright. Less hassle, at least.
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    tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    Don't ask, it's a lease. And it's being discussed in 15 threads right now.

    He's expecting to be 10K over mileage at lease end and is hoping to get out without having to pay the mileage fee. Perhaps by negotiating a lower buyout from the finance co and selling the car privately for at least that much.

    TB
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,756
    I tried doing the trick of filing off the drain plug and using vice grips, but that just made it worse. (I heard that trick from someone else too, but thanks for mentioning it, Zues) I don't know how I got that drain plug in there so tight, but it wasn't coming out!

    I finally gave up and took it to my mechanic last night. I was going to take it in soon to have them check the belts and hoses, and a general checkout anyway. Got a call this morning that it was all finished and ready to go. They got the drain plug out, after about 1/2 hour. Belt, hoses, coolant all fine, which surprises me, since I'm now at 75,000 miles. Maybe that stuff really *does* last to 100K like the manufacturer says, nowadays!
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