if a no haggle dealer wants/needs to get rid of inventory, he may give you more for your trade in than it's worth. this way he can sell at msrp and still make a buyer happy. saturn dealers do this on slow moving vehicles.
The xb is a terrific commuter car. Gas mileage is pretty good (I'm average 30 so far in mostly city driving) and it's pretty zippy. I don't find it that loud on the highway, but I'm not on it that much.
It is sold at no-haggle pricing, meaning simply it will sold at the advertised price, whatever it happens to be where you are shopping. Check around. I have not heard of any discounts, let alone invoice.
Dont know what is a standard size bike, but I say yes. I'm 5'3, I take off the front wheel when placing my bike into my cherokee, otherwise I'm stressing parts of my bike with the wheel on.
Can't remember where I saw this post, but an owner claims to have fit two bikes w/o removing the front wheels. Haven't tried it, so can't confirm, but I'd say you could fit one easily.
The xB can carry 825 lbs. -- people plus cargo. Not sure how it performs lugging that much weight, but based on its blazing acceleration hauling my 195+/- I can guess:)
It's sort of beside the point, anyway, in my opinion. This car was designed to be a fun, practical, efficient urban runabout. It's superb at that. If you need to carry a lot of weight and bulky items on a regular basis it's probably the wrong car.
I believe roof racks are a dealer-installed option and there are some good aftermarket choices also. The scionlife board has some info on it plus links to suppliers.
Funny thing is that despite their size and utilitarian image, many SUVs don't fare any better. An Escalade EXT has a max payload of 1121 lbs. Put four plus-sized americans in there and you have just about maxed out.
I find it terrifying to see these things fully loaded shooting down the highway at 80+ miles an hour. Especially since many of them have truck tires not really designed for speed. (shudder)
One thing I noticed is that several reviews (Consumer Digest, c/d) state that "panic" Braking distances are long: the only figure I have seen is 200ft. This compares with mediocre econoboxes braking distances of 140 or less as routinely reported in Consumer Reports' reviews.
I've seen a few xB's already in suburban Milwaukee, including the Hot Lava (orange) special edition, even though I don't think they're for sale here yet.
Seems like a great vehicle, but like others have mentioned (I've read all 40 pages of commentary ), I have major reservations about the wimpy engine. Look on the bright side all you want, but hp and torque just over 100 in a modern vehicle is just not cool. I don't want to go with a vehicle slower than my current 125 hp DOHC 98 Saturn SW2 automatic which I've read does 0-60 in about 9.6 sec. I've read that an auto xB (I don't want a manual) will likely take longer than 11 sec. A vehicle as cool looking as the xB and aimed at America's youth should not have such unexceptional performance. Why the base Corolla/Matrix engine was passed over, even as an option, is hard to believe and really disappointing to me. Better yet, it'd be nice to have the base Camry engine. *grin* I recall walking through a Ford new car lot in the early 90's, checking out window stickers and noticing that upgrading to a V-6 in a Ranger was a sub-$1000 option. Wouldn't that be nice...
Anyhow, I have a few questions/comments for you follow xB admirers:
1) What kind of mileage are you getting with your AUTOMATIC xB's?
2) The front is the least attractive part of the vehicle. Especially the grill. Just the overall shape of the front of the car. It seems kinda compact compared to the blocky rear and sides. What do you guys think?
3) The xB has its speedometer to the right of where most other cars have it, doesn't it? Is this bothersome?
4) I want a purple paint option. I'd like a standard 'grape sucker' purple or something like Ford's 'ultraviolet' from the mid 90's. I'd also like a nice emerald green... I've never liked the darker greens that have been so 'popular'. I think Scion should offer more interesting colors. At least they have orange which, in my opinion, is far better than yellow which is so abundant nowadays.
I noticed a new Hot Lava automatic for sale online by a dealer, priced at $15000. The MSRP should be nearly $16000. Something struck me as fishy about that... would a dealer be selling the limited edition Hot Lava model for $1000 under invoice? I'm tempted to investigate in case this is a deal I won't ever find repeated, but I'm hoping to drive my current car another 6 months and save up an additional couple thousand for a down payment. And I'm also sorta hoping that the power issue is addressed for the 2005's and maybe a purple special edition is on the way. *wishful thinking* Heh heh!
Good question about braking distances but I just did a bunch of checking around and it's surprising how little comparative information exists, at least online at major sites. I checked some sources that use C&D, Motortrend, etc. road tests as sources.
The 200 ft. distance you mention is a C&D 70-0 stopping distance. The only other 70-0 stopping distance I could find online was a C&D number for a 2004 325 sedan at 172 ft. There are lots of 60-0 stopping distances listed and they are of course much shorter. Perhaps you are comparing two different distances, in which case it's difficult to draw conclusions. I frankly don't know if 200 ft. from 70 mph is long.
My only "panic" stop in the xB so far was at a fairly slow speed, but stop I surely did with no drama.
I get about 24 city and 36 highway in my xB auto. What I've found is that EPA city mileage rating is always about 20-30% higher than actual, and the EPA highway is about 10% lower than actual.
In my experience the brakes have no problems with panic stops, and (unless one is drag racing) the power is more than adequate for a 2500 lb vehicle. The xB is a sensible, fun and incredibly roomy city car: it's not meant for people who require a lot of horsepower or who want to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood. That's what minivans and SUVs are for, imho. Also, most of the accessories that Scion sells are high priced frills that one can do without. The xB is terrific, AS IS. Incidentally, I'm not aware of such a fun car below $15K that comes with ABS incl brake-force distribution and brake assist, anti-skid control and traction control.
You have to test drive the car to see if you like the power or not. I didn't drive an auto, but the stick had plenty of go.
2) I think the front fits the vehicle pretty well, but there are lots of bodykits you can order from Japan if you want to change it. And I mean, a LOT.
Hot Lava for $15000? That is such a cool color.
I don't think that any cars are coming in the purple you describe right now. You mean like the Prowler purple?
If you haven't already. It's a blast, though if power is a high priority you're likely to be disappointed. Power-to-wight ratio is better than a base Mini, but there's nothing like the seat of your pants to tell if you'll be satisfied. I think the front makes the car by giving it sort of a little bulldog look. To each his own.
Hard to say if the $15,000 price on a hot lava auto is too good to be true, but Toyota is pretty serious about not allowing dealers to play games and I experienced none during visits to three dealers.
Instead of putting on a roof roack, I'm thinking of using a hitch-mounted rack I already own for hauling bikes. I'm having trouble finding a hitch (the places I've contacted don't know the car yet). Anybody had one installed or have a company to recommend contacting?
Both these topics were touched on a few posts back, related by the general need to haul stuff. The hitch is problematic due to the skirt along the bottom of the bumper. You'd need to go through it or under it to accommodate a hitch. Scion says the car isn't designed to tow, but a hitch bracket to support a bike rack, even if the bracket has to be rigged around bumper, could probably be done.
There are no "factory options" on scions. All options are added at the port of entry or, more likely, at the dealership. I haven't seen any info about dealer installed roof racks, but have read posts by those who ordered them. There are some aftermarket choices, too. There are several posts on the subject at scionlife.com.
It's a city car. It's not a hot rod. I was worried about power even after two test drives but after living with it for few weeks, it's fine power-wise. It's not fast, but it is just flat out fun to drive. If you want win races at stop lights, get something else. You want to smile through a lousy commute, get an xB.
I've got the manual and it's no problem with any hill and cruises easily above speed limit. In fact, I was surprised it moves as well as it does on the highway and seemed to hold speed on hills without much extra gas.
You are right about the incorrect specs on rear seat leg room. Amazing how much room there is. My only gripe on long drives is the short seat cushions. I start to feel it in mid-thigh after an hour or so.
The problem I have here is elevation. I live at around 4500 ft and my typical drives for work involve driving down to 4200 ft and up to 6500 ft on a few occassions. The 1.5L engine really starts to run out of breath at the higher elevations and the climbs up the canyons could be problematic. I used to own a '93 Suzuki Sidekick with the 1.6L 4 banger and manual tranny. It was rated at 80 hp at 94 lb-ft. I was able to get around town just fine but it struggled going up the canyons. Frequent shifts between 3rd and 4th gear to keep the speed up with surrounding traffic. Granted, the xB wouldn't have the extra drag on the system due to the 4WD components but by the same token, the xB is not exactly an "aerodynamic masterpiece".
A forced induction system would work wonders for higher elevation driving ... not to mention giving a kick to around town driving.
I'd love to get a Forester XT! Unfortunately, rear seat legroom is very scant in the Forester but front seat room is rather nice.
I currently drive a Passat w/1.8T and love the performance at altitude. The lease is up on the Passat in a year and I am researching possible replacements. The xB wasn't even on the radar screen until the test drive and the gobs of interior passenger volume impressed me. Perhaps by the time I'm ready to get into my next vehicle, TRD will have a supercharger available for the 1.5L in the xB. Still don't know if the xB will be in the running a year from now but with the low sticker and high interior space, it very well may be.
There is also the issue of the ~$9k price difference between base models ... you could get a Blitz supercharge kit for the xB for $3500. Granted, a supercharged 1.5L I4 won't provide the overall thrust that you get from the turbo charged 2.5L H4 in the Forester but you don't get 30 mpg city fuel economy in the Forester either.
Like I said, the xB would not even be on my radar screen except for the interior passenger room. I have test driven the Forester and really enjoyed it but the rear seats were pretty cozy with 3 kids back there. The rear seat is pretty cozy with three kids in the xB as well but only in shoulder room ... every other dimension has limbs free and clear ... the advantage in the xB being, I don't have to deal with little feet kicking me in the back as I drive around
I hear you on the kids not being able to kick the back of your seat. My wife's car is an '03 Passat wagon with the 1.8t. It's a great motor and overall a roomy enough car. Doesn't touch the xB in leg and head room, though Not sure how old your kids are, but mine are 20 months and the other about to turn three. Getting the car seats in and out is really easy and there is plenty of room to maneuver back there. Three kids might be a squeeze, although the sales manager where I bought my car said he gets a rear-facing infant seat and two conversion seats in his xB. Sounds like it meets your space requirements. Maybe you can take an extended test drive in those hills and see how it works.
I have an automatic Echo (same engine as xA) and stick shift xA, and both of them run me up to Yosemite and Tuolumne meadows, about the elevations you are talking about, with no problem whatsoever. Including wife, baby and camping gear.
When the market opens up to the xB here in SLC I may take another test drive with a manual transmission and do a run up the canyon ... I would need to include the wife and kids just to get a feel for a loaded trip. Edmunds has the payload for the xB listed at 925 lbs so there should be room for gear even with the family loaded up ... of course, I would need to get a roof rack and cargo box to carry any gear since the cargo room is really small in the xB.
get used to being gawked at by middle aged men. they are going to be the primary buyer of the xb. the scion xb, like the echo, is going to miss it's intended youthful target.
I remember Honda was originally pitching the Element towards the "youth market" and it seems to me that the only ones I see driving the thing were middle-aged folks. But the same thing seems to be true for MINIs as well.
I like the XB a lot, and I must confess that I'm a middle-aged guy.
Enjoy the car. It's a lot of fun to drive. Everyone checks it out, but the target demographic is too cool let on they like it. I get real enthusiastic reactions from little kids and usually puzzled looks from older folks. Be glad you are driving a vehicle that makes (most) people smile.
The tareget demos seem to like it. There are some high school/early college kids on our street, or when I go to the car wash or I am getting gas I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Dude, I gotta get one of those"
I have a 93 mustang with alot of power, and am looking into a new car. I know the xb won't have anywhere near the power but am I going to be hating life. I like the idea of good gas mileage. I like the style but I am also alittle worried about likeing it alot now and being over it in 6 months.
I test drove one yesterday (w/ auto) and was surprised how much zip it had. The thing is pretty light, so the engine seemed to move it along OK. Whether or not it meets your "speed needs" is up to you. I think a test drive is in order.
The xB I drove was a not-for-sale demo. The salesperson said they've already pre-sold a significant portion of their June allocation.
Just don't buy on impulse. I think you're doing the right thing just by asking that question.
Look at it this way - is the vehicle useful for your needs? That way when the newness wears off, you still have a useful package.
Drive it, take it up a long hill, try passing on the highway, does it have enough pep for you? You might want more power once in a while, but you'll be rewarded at every visit to the gas pump. The latter might occur a lot more often.
I think the reason middle aged men and women buys them is to seem young and cool again. Scions were built to be customize and most old people just plain looks lame driving customized cars. Please stick with Camrys and Accords and leave the Scions to young people.
Most middle-aged men and women who buys and drives Scions is just trying to be young and cool again. Hauling people and cargo...there's better cars for that. Customization was what Scions were designed for. An older person driving customized cars just looks lame. And a Scion not fixed-up is a shame. Please stick with Camrys and Accords and stay away from Scions. Leave it to the younger crowd!
I'm 44-years-old with two young kids and a house in the suburbs. Even when I was young I doubt I was cool and stopped trying to be a long time ago. There actually aren't too many cars better at hauling people and cargo -- that's why I bought an xB. Plus I do think it's cool. Mine is completely stock and will probably stay that way. Enjoy yours.
A half-century's wisdom suggests that the xB has a good Return on Investment (ROI). Cheap initial price for the amount of cargo space purchased, little sacrifice of gas and maintenance, and reasonable comfort. The xB probably is the best hauler for the lowest price--for a new (versus used) vehicle.
Plus, the benefits of sitting higher to have a higher sightline and not having to twist and squat to enter and exit the vehicle are icing on the cake.
Who cares if you can customize it? I'd rather spend the savings on a new iPod. Now THAT's what's cool.
Comments
Fot the Nth time- Scions are only sold at the advertised price. No sales, no gimmicks. Any dealer that does, can lose their franchise.
saturn dealers do this on slow moving vehicles.
It is sold at no-haggle pricing, meaning simply it will sold at the advertised price, whatever it happens to be where you are shopping. Check around. I have not heard of any discounts, let alone invoice.
How does it accelerate with a car full of people?
Also, from the specs I suspect that the Scion B cannot carry a sheet of plywood because it is not wide enough? Is that so.
Thanks!
Is there a roof rack optional?
-juice
PS I've carried 5 sheets of OSB/plywood on the roof rack of my Subaru Forester so you don't need a pickup!
It's sort of beside the point, anyway, in my opinion. This car was designed to be a fun, practical, efficient urban runabout. It's superb at that. If you need to carry a lot of weight and bulky items on a regular basis it's probably the wrong car.
I believe roof racks are a dealer-installed option and there are some good aftermarket choices also. The scionlife board has some info on it plus links to suppliers.
Good luck.
Honda Element has just 675!
So the Scion is rated for a pretty robust payload, especially for its size and price.
-juice
One thing I noticed is that several reviews (Consumer Digest, c/d) state that "panic" Braking distances are long: the only figure I have seen is 200ft. This compares with mediocre econoboxes braking distances of 140 or less as routinely reported in Consumer Reports' reviews.
Is/should this be a concern?
Thanks!
Phil
Seems like a great vehicle, but like others have mentioned (I've read all 40 pages of commentary
Anyhow, I have a few questions/comments for you follow xB admirers:
1) What kind of mileage are you getting with your AUTOMATIC xB's?
2) The front is the least attractive part of the vehicle. Especially the grill. Just the overall shape of the front of the car. It seems kinda compact compared to the blocky rear and sides. What do you guys think?
3) The xB has its speedometer to the right of where most other cars have it, doesn't it? Is this bothersome?
4) I want a purple paint option.
I noticed a new Hot Lava automatic for sale online by a dealer, priced at $15000. The MSRP should be nearly $16000. Something struck me as fishy about that... would a dealer be selling the limited edition Hot Lava model for $1000 under invoice? I'm tempted to investigate in case this is a deal I won't ever find repeated, but I'm hoping to drive my current car another 6 months and save up an additional couple thousand for a down payment. And I'm also sorta hoping that the power issue is addressed for the 2005's and maybe a purple special edition is on the way. *wishful thinking* Heh heh!
The 200 ft. distance you mention is a C&D 70-0 stopping distance. The only other 70-0 stopping distance I could find online was a C&D number for a 2004 325 sedan at 172 ft. There are lots of 60-0 stopping distances listed and they are of course much shorter. Perhaps you are comparing two different distances, in which case it's difficult to draw conclusions. I frankly don't know if 200 ft. from 70 mph is long.
My only "panic" stop in the xB so far was at a fairly slow speed, but stop I surely did with no drama.
Hope this helps.
In my experience the brakes have no problems with panic stops, and (unless one is drag racing) the power is more than adequate for a 2500 lb vehicle. The xB is a sensible, fun and incredibly roomy city car: it's not meant for people who require a lot of horsepower or who want to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood. That's what minivans and SUVs are for, imho. Also, most of the accessories that Scion sells are high priced frills that one can do without. The xB is terrific, AS IS. Incidentally, I'm not aware of such a fun car below $15K that comes with ABS incl brake-force distribution and brake assist, anti-skid control and traction control.
-juice
2) I think the front fits the vehicle pretty well, but there are lots of bodykits you can order from Japan if you want to change it. And I mean, a LOT.
Hot Lava for $15000? That is such a cool color.
I don't think that any cars are coming in the purple you describe right now. You mean like the Prowler purple?
Hard to say if the $15,000 price on a hot lava auto is too good to be true, but Toyota is pretty serious about not allowing dealers to play games and I experienced none during visits to three dealers.
Good luck.
There are no "factory options" on scions. All options are added at the port of entry or, more likely, at the dealership. I haven't seen any info about dealer installed roof racks, but have read posts by those who ordered them. There are some aftermarket choices, too. There are several posts on the subject at scionlife.com.
You are right about the incorrect specs on rear seat leg room. Amazing how much room there is. My only gripe on long drives is the short seat cushions. I start to feel it in mid-thigh after an hour or so.
A forced induction system would work wonders for higher elevation driving ... not to mention giving a kick to around town driving.
They start at around $23k street price.
-juice
I currently drive a Passat w/1.8T and love the performance at altitude. The lease is up on the Passat in a year and I am researching possible replacements. The xB wasn't even on the radar screen until the test drive and the gobs of interior passenger volume impressed me. Perhaps by the time I'm ready to get into my next vehicle, TRD will have a supercharger available for the 1.5L in the xB. Still don't know if the xB will be in the running a year from now but with the low sticker and high interior space, it very well may be.
The xB does have a lot more rear leg room.
-juice
Like I said, the xB would not even be on my radar screen except for the interior passenger room. I have test driven the Forester and really enjoyed it but the rear seats were pretty cozy with 3 kids back there. The rear seat is pretty cozy with three kids in the xB as well but only in shoulder room ... every other dimension has limbs free and clear ... the advantage in the xB being, I don't have to deal with little feet kicking me in the back as I drive around
Not sure how old your kids are, but mine are 20 months and the other about to turn three. Getting the car seats in and out is really easy and there is plenty of room to maneuver back there. Three kids might be a squeeze, although the sales manager where I bought my car said he gets a rear-facing infant seat and two conversion seats in his xB.
Sounds like it meets your space requirements. Maybe you can take an extended test drive in those hills and see how it works.
Good luck.
Kids can kick the back of my seat any time, it's like a free back massage! LOL
-juice
I bought the second Scion sold by my dealership. I am sad to report to Toyota that the first two owners are way-off the target demographic.
My only complaint is that the only gawking I get is from middle aged men.
Phil
the scion xb, like the echo, is going to miss it's intended youthful target.
She said: "Look, a BIG Scion"
I like the XB a lot, and I must confess that I'm a middle-aged guy.
She had never once liked a car enough to speak out, not ever. But yesterday, my daughter yelled out, "WHAT A FUN CAR!" as an xB drove by.
You can't be sure the geezers aren't just gawking in disapproval, so who can say they even like it?
The driver was a woman in her 30s.
-juice
I like the style but I am also alittle worried about likeing it alot now and being over it in 6 months.
The xB I drove was a not-for-sale demo. The salesperson said they've already pre-sold a significant portion of their June allocation.
Look at it this way - is the vehicle useful for your needs? That way when the newness wears off, you still have a useful package.
Drive it, take it up a long hill, try passing on the highway, does it have enough pep for you? You might want more power once in a while, but you'll be rewarded at every visit to the gas pump. The latter might occur a lot more often.
-juice
Compared to my XB, it felt so low and tiny, It was almost claustrophobic.
Plus, the benefits of sitting higher to have a higher sightline and not having to twist and squat to enter and exit the vehicle are icing on the cake.
Who cares if you can customize it? I'd rather spend the savings on a new iPod. Now THAT's what's cool.