I wouldn't worry unless the opening is mounted low in the engine bay. Usually it's up high.
We did a drive in the Pine Barrens, and did a few water crossings. Bigger than any rain puddle, but still not deep water, just good speeds. :-)
Any how, the only one that sucked in water was a Subaru XT6 that had a custom intake mounted way low in the engine bay. Water won't compress, so the engine just stalled.
It was hilarious. We pulled the plugs, let the starter pump the water out. Then sprayed in some WD40, to clean up the cylinders. She fired right back up!
Stock Subarus that had the intakes mounted at the top of the bumper were fine, including Foresters and Imprezas.
Thanks for all the info. BYW, did you notice an increase in engine noise when you test drove the xB with the CAI? Also, help me out a little. What did you mean by "DYNO" ?
Many of the Subies did have CAI, yes. Mine was stock but minus the intake silencer, and at least one was bone-stock.
I did get a little sand on my air filter, which I cleaned out the next day. But the Pine Barrens is sand/dirt/mud and water that you're not likely to encounter on normal roads.
The big difference in noise comes at WOT (wide open throttle). Just try it to see if you're OK with that.
I was first going to get an Element, but now I am most likely going to get an xB when they start selling in Texas.
Any comments on the color selections. The one in Austin is black. I have seen the colors on line but they always look different in person.
As a UT grad, I really like the sunset orange of the element since its so close to the UT's burnt orange. They sell the color quite a bit in Austin.
Any comments on colors outside of the silver and black. Those appear to be the popular choices.
I usually do not like red, however, that cherry color looks different and possibly cool. I like blues; however, that blue did not impress me online. How do those colors look in person.
I think all of the colors are pertty drab. Dull green, dull blue, dull red black and white that makes the XB look like a mini-telephone repair truck. Thus, Thundercloud was my default choice.
Any info on whether or not side air bags and side head curtain airbags will be available as it says in the literature? Two local dealers said they would not be offered as options. A third said "yes" on the Xb but not on the Xa.
Toyota has done such a good job with sealing the interior of the xB, that you have to really compress the air inside when closing the hatch or doors. Try closing the hatch when a window is partly open and you'll see that closing is easy. To me it's actually an indication of the high quality of the xB.
Of course rattles at 3000 rpm does indicate an assembly problem, but even Lexus vehicles can occasionally have rattles. Just like you, I did find it hard to close the hood but have realized that it's a matter of technique - it closes easily if one just pushes down when the latch engages, rather than letting go or dropping it from a fully open position.
some of you may have read that i have had a recurring stalling issue on my xB. on probably seven or eight occasions when i have exited from the freeway, the car has stalled out towards the end of the deceleration cycle. to provide background, i usually downshift from fifth to fourth to third gear, and then for the last 20 mph or so either push in the clutch or put the car in neutral so that i don't stall out. i've been driving stick for 18 years.
after four trips to the dealer--two where they've sent out a scion factory "specialist"--they have been unable to diagnose the problem. each time they have only kept the car for a 24-hour period.
last sunday the car stalled out yet again after about 20 minutes of driving. the tank was full, and the car had been warmed up before it had been driven.
i called aaron at scion corporate again to notify him that the problem had occurred again. now we are at the point where his superiors are now recommending that scion buy back the car.
we'll see what happens. i hope they do me right on this.
It's tough for them when they hear about a complaint, but can't confirm it themselves...they have to rely on the honesty of the person reporting the problem.
BTW, did you try disconnecting the battery to erase the ECM memory, to see if the car would "relearn" idle and other settings and behave differently? I am just curious if this would have any effect. Kind of grasping at straws.
Think you'll get another Scion? Hey, I'm on my third Focus ZX3, Ford finally got it right....
It's obvious why I say hurray for Scion. Toyota is acting on the problem. I say shame on VW because almost 20 years ago VW's "solution" to higher than expected oil consumption (a quart every 300 miles) was to send owners a decal to put near the gas filler spout reminding the owner to check the oil level every fill-up...and more recently, when "coil on sparkplugs" were failing on the 1.8's, they decided to only replace one at time (not the full set) until the press got on it.
I guess I have two automotive wishes: that Toyotas were more VW like in handling and ergonomics and materials choices; and that VW was a lot more Toyota-like in terms of customer service, if not basic reliability.
I have not heard any other comments on the orange color for Special Release 1. I really like it. My wife and friends do not. Curious what others think and if you think those 2100 would sellout quickly.
Shoot, down here in Austin with 50,000 UT students and all those alumni, you would think we could sell most of them down here in Texas.
Any thoughts on the orange. Check out the website.
I wonder if they would bring it back later as a permanent color or they will keep doing these occasional Special Releases. First time I heard of special releases for Scion. Was that a known sales plan to have these special releases to push the cars with these unique features like metallic orange paint.
Long time Hall resident, short-time xB lurker here.
Orange is aces! The dowdy color palette is a mistake, IMO. I frankly didn't like the car much, other than conceptually, prior to seeing one locally painted a bright, hot yellow (aftermaket I assume). What seemed ungainly and grotesque to me in bland colors turned quirky, spirited and fun in brights.
I think the orange is a serious winner, and I'd love to see some other jewel tones, neons or jelly bean colors in the palette.
Micweb...the reason VW replaced only one coil at a time at first, was that the issue was widespead and there were a limited amount of replacement parts to go around. It was either help a few people totally or a lot the best they could. It was a no win situation and there was no magic wand fix. A lot more complicated than most realize and no amount of good intentions for customer service could help VW when a third party supplier gave thousands of bad parts and there was no immediate source for good replacements. Not excusing the issue, but it wasn't as simple as a quick fix and their response had nothing to do with press pressure, and had everything to do with real-world logistics.
Anyway, on to my Scion xB part of the post...saw the xB at the Detroit show, love it. Hope they can get one to Kansas City for me to buy before my patience runs out, would love to buy one---I'm in!
I have heard many say that the xB has a weak a/c. I don't remember where I read it but someone mentioned that they might be updating the compressor on them when the Feb 04s come out. I think they said someone in service said that, so I'm a little sceptical. Joe
after trying to find the cause of the stalling problem in my xB, scion agreed to buy back my xB and replace it with a new one. the new one arrives sometime in the first week of february.
kudos to aaron and the rest of the people at scion for standing behind their product!
...teach an old dog new tricks. Maybe you got the treatment because it was used? The guy I dealt with was a Toyota salesman, but he seems to have picked it up. I was shocked he wouldn't even take my name and number when I offered them. Funny part was I had a similar experience to yours at this same dealer years ago: used vehicle, more expensive than a new one comparably equipped, wouldn't move on price, called me a bunch of times afterward even though I told them to screw. Blah. Good luck.
I have read most of the postings. Issue that is unclear to me is the air conditioning in Xb. Here in Florida is major issue. I have had a couple of Toyotas and A/C was ok. I am reading here about some problems with A/C strength. Anyone out there have any Xb hot weather experience. The cars are going to be available in Fla in a couple of weeks and I am pretty sure I am going to get one, but worry about A/C
I'm in Arizona and bought my Xb when it was about 115' this summer The A/C is decent. Keep in mind, it's a small car's AC trying to cool a huge volume box. I tinted the windows which helped a lot too. It's not great, but it's better than our old Nissan Xterra.
A looooooooooong time ago, zen2003 made a post about the stalling issue that included this:
"I read that coasting is bad...something to do with the catalytic converter and other damage that can occur."
It's been discussed that coasting isn't bad after all, but I think I know why zen2003 was confused, and wanted to post a clear explanation here.
The issue is not "don't coast a manual transmission or you will damage the catalytic convertor" -- the issue is that modern, catalytic-equipped cars with manual transmissions should not be PUSH-STARTED, or damage to the catalytic converter will result.
OK, here we go on the East Coast. Saw my first Scion ad in the Washington Post this morning. The local dealer has the new building built and ready and a new xA and xB to look at. I'm going to make my play Monday the 2nd. I checked the xB out at the Washington Auto Show. Seems to fit my needs, priced right, and hopefully has Toyota reliability. I'm 48 and my peers are having fun with this. You know the drill - I'd have to buy one for each foot, looks like a Maytag upended, I spent more on accessories than that thing cost,on and on. It's alright. I can take it.
It is not a "fixed price" concept is it "posted price"
A dealer can ask any price they want- They do vary quite a bit- especially on options. And, they can't negotiate at all. Scion audits each deal to make sure the charged prices match the dealers posted "menu" price.
Will be interesting to see what Carmax charges for Scion. Laurel, MD is open with Kenosha, WI to be open this summer. Carmax does not charge MSRP on anything so I wonder if Scion will be the exception. I was in CA on business a few weeks ago and browsing the xB. It is very interesting and seems to be a very good value. I still do not see the value of having Scion as a separate brand.
Jimmyczech, what was that Maryland dealer that was going to be getting in an orange XB? I'm looking for one. If anyone else knows of one, please post. Thanks!
has anyone checked to see if the air conditioner in the xb is the same as in the echo? if it is and you live in the hot and humid south east or the desert south west, you'll suffer. echo owners complain about the weak air conditioner. what will xb owners say when the echo air conditioner has to cool almost twice the volume?
Hello, I live in San Diego and purchased the xb in begining of august when it was still really hot.Although the AC could be more powerful it was never truly lacking in cooling power and got the job done. I think it just has to work a little harder because of so much interior room it has to cool, but it was never a big issue.
thanks for your response. i've been in san diego. san diego probably has the most temperate climate in the usa.
i doubt san diego really tests an air conditioner like south florida with 95 degree temps and 95% humidity or phoenix where it gets to 115 degrees in the summer.
in places where it gets very hot and humid, you need a more powerful engine with a strong air conditioner.
i sure would like to hear from someone who has driven the xb in houston or las vegas in the middle of the summer.
all the above is only speculation. i don't own an xb or echo, but read a lot about the weak air.
I'm in Arizona and bought my Xb when it was about 115' this summer The A/C is decent. Keep in mind, it's a small car's AC trying to cool a huge volume box. I tinted the windows which helped a lot too. It's not great, but it's better than our old Nissan Xterra.
Are Scion's officially on sale in PA, or did this dealer truck it in early? I think it's worth waiting for the official roll-out. In other words don't pay over sticker. (That's the factory sticker, not the "accessory and additional dealer profit" sticker.)
and the rest of the East coast. I drove the auto a couple weeks ago and aside from being slow from a stop I thought it was fine and will certainly be more fun to drive than your truck. I've got a Silverado 1500, so my perception is probably skewed anyway. Did not get on a highway. The dealer (located in MA) played no games, quoted flat prices of $13680 for the manual and $14500 or something for the auto. I would expect the usual treatment on any trade discussions, but maybe I am wrong. Good luck. I've already made the decision to buy but will likely wait until Summer.
I searched the web to see who was advertising them in Jersey at this point. I found one place and the prices on their website are already $315 over MSRP for just the base vehicle. I'd hate to see where they end up with some options thrown in.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I was wondering why there hadn't been any xB posts, and realized today that I hadn't subscribed to the board. Oops!
Anyway, I took a very brief test drive of an xB automatic today (the only one the dealer had -- no manuals on the lot), and was surprised at how responsive it felt, although the engine noise was a bit loud. My two-mile trip wasn't all that taxing, though, and the air conditioner wasn't running. And I have to admit that the vast amount of space around me was almost disconcerting.
The car's certainly on my short list for cheap thrills, though.
Unfortunately, this is southeastern Virginia, so the dealer (I won't mention names, but a regular poster on the Edmunds boards works there, or at least used to work there) tacks on a $399 "processing fee" over and above MSRP, and every dealer around here charges a similar cost, probably because the dealer lobby here in the Old Dominion is strong enough to counter any reasonable regulation (Chevy ads here display the cost after every rebate available, misleading customers into thinking they can get an Impala for twelve grand, which is possible only if you're in the military and buying with a recent college grad who charged his or her college tuition on a GM card, with an Oldsmobile, an import and a gas tank settlement-eligible pickup already in your personal fleet.) If I decide to get one, it may be worth a trip to Maryland to pick one up just to get out from under the fee. I know this isn't the topic of the board, but if I go to a store at the mall, I don't pay a fee over and above the price on the tag for the cost of the hanger and the reciept. Ugh.
I currently own a Scion xA with stick shift and 5,000 miles, but in 2002 had an Echo with automatic for 7,000 miles. It's been my mother's car for about 14 months and now has only 10,000 miles, but it needed some warranty work from Toyota, so I loaned her one of my cars and brought the Echo back north. While I have it, I can't resist upgrading the Echo, partly for the fun of it, and partly before I do anything to the Scion xA which I might regret, and some of the upgrades are pertinent to this discussion (and to the xA discussion, which is mostly moribund).
I am surprised how responsive the Echo is, even with an automatic. I guess that is the benefit of being about 400 pounds lighter than the Scion xA. Likewise, although I don't have a tachometer to confirm it, the engine seems a lot less "busy" than the Scion xA. One person posted an rpm calculator which indicated 75mph is about 3,000 rpm, which may be right and compares favorably to the 3,750 rpm on the Scion xA.
The Echo seems a tad - but only a touch - noiser than the Scion xA, which is surpising considering a good portion of the 400 pound weight differential on the Scion supposedly went into sound proofing. At highway cruise, the main difference in noise is some wind buffeting of the driver window. Engine noise is low on both cars, noise up through the tires is similar. That having been said, the Scion feels much better - solid, quite, deluxe. The Echo feels a little "tinny." But I can't put my finger on why, because the radio test - how loud I have to turn the radio on to hear it at highway speeds - indicates both cars are similar.
Anyway, I dropped in a K&N air filter on the Echo (also fits the Scion) to see if there was any performance increase, and swapped out the factory muffler for a Dynomax Super Turbo, the 17709 verions which is 7" round and 18" long. This is supposed to breathe much better than factory stock, but is very, very quiet. Truth is, I don't notice much difference in pep after the changes, but the motor doesn't seem to "roar" as much when it throws a downshift on a freeway onramp. In other words, the factory system is not "choking" this motor. I will say this though: the Echo took a long time to break-in, and now the motor and tranny are much more responsive. Also, since I am not worried about thrashing the car, I am driving it more aggressively - getting on the throttle to force downshifts instead of pussyfooting it. Driven this way, the Echo is surprisingly sporty. I wish the Scion were 400 pounds lighter!
One piece of curiosity when the Echo, muffler was removed, is that there was no electrical plug into the muffler. The Echo brochure and website indicate that there is supposed to be an electrically operated "cut out" in the muffler that opens and closes based on engine load and rpm, to allow better breathing when performance demands it. In fact, there is NO electrical lead to the muffler. Maybe it's in the resonator - the resonator before the muffler is about as big as some Civic sport compact mufflers, and almost as big as the stock muffler, and in fact the car wasn't that loud with the stock muffler off altogether (the muffler shop tried Flowmaster and Magnaflow mufflers before I settled on the Super Turbo).
So why am I reporting this? Because on my xA, I get a boom/resonating noise between 65 and 80. It's about the only thing I don't like about the xA (other than the laughable "trunk") and I'd like to get rid of the droning noise. My bet is a Super Turbo will do the job, at a lot less cost (and possibly less noise) than the TRD aftermarket muffler. The overall increase in exhaust noise will be less, and in fact the Super Turbo has a nice "sound" to it.
I paid $165 for parts and installation - $120 of that was a parts charge for the Dynomax 17709 muffler which is no longer current stock (the 17710 is the same size, slightly larger input and output, but easily adaptable to the Echo's tiny pipe size). I found out after the fact that you can mail order Dynomax's for considerably less - the 17710 mail order is only $67!
Comments
We did a drive in the Pine Barrens, and did a few water crossings. Bigger than any rain puddle, but still not deep water, just good speeds. :-)
Any how, the only one that sucked in water was a Subaru XT6 that had a custom intake mounted way low in the engine bay. Water won't compress, so the engine just stalled.
It was hilarious. We pulled the plugs, let the starter pump the water out. Then sprayed in some WD40, to clean up the cylinders. She fired right back up!
Stock Subarus that had the intakes mounted at the top of the bumper were fine, including Foresters and Imprezas.
-juice
Thanks for all the info. BYW, did you notice an increase in engine noise when you test drove the xB with the CAI? Also, help me out a little. What did you mean by "DYNO" ?
I'll check out the web sites also.
Jack
I did get a little sand on my air filter, which I cleaned out the next day. But the Pine Barrens is sand/dirt/mud and water that you're not likely to encounter on normal roads.
The big difference in noise comes at WOT (wide open throttle). Just try it to see if you're OK with that.
-juice
Any comments on the color selections. The one in Austin is black. I have seen the colors on line but they always look different in person.
As a UT grad, I really like the sunset orange of the element since its so close to the UT's burnt orange. They sell the color quite a bit in Austin.
Any comments on colors outside of the silver and black. Those appear to be the popular choices.
I usually do not like red, however, that cherry color looks different and possibly cool. I like blues; however, that blue did not impress me online. How do those colors look in person.
I appreciate any help.
Dull green, dull blue, dull red black and white that makes the XB look like a mini-telephone repair truck.
Thus, Thundercloud was my default choice.
Thanks.
Of course rattles at 3000 rpm does indicate an assembly problem, but even Lexus vehicles can occasionally have rattles. Just like you, I did find it hard to close the hood but have realized that it's a matter of technique - it closes easily if one just pushes down when the latch engages, rather than letting go or dropping it from a fully open position.
People have reported stalling issues with the latest batch of Cavaliers, for what its worth.
I haven't had any problems so far (3,700 miles).
Lower Anchors and Tethers for Children (LATCH) • • • • •
Child-Seat Tether Anchor (Rear-Centered) • • • • •
Child-Proof Rear Door Locks
For those with small kids. Any issues with car seats ? We have a four year old. I like the cars. Need to convince the wife.
Yes, Yes and yes.
I am a UT alumn and was just complaining about the color choices. I wish it was available all the time.
One of the things I like the most about the element was the orange.
from the freeway, the car has stalled out towards the end of the deceleration cycle. to provide background, i usually downshift from fifth to fourth to third gear, and then for the last 20 mph or so either push in the clutch or put the car in neutral so that i don't stall out. i've been driving stick for 18 years.
after four trips to the dealer--two where they've sent out a scion factory "specialist"--they have been unable to diagnose the problem. each time they have only kept the car for a 24-hour period.
last sunday the car stalled out yet again after about 20 minutes of driving. the tank was full, and the car had been warmed up before it
had been driven.
i called aaron at scion corporate again to notify him that the problem had occurred again. now we are at the point where his superiors are now recommending that scion buy back the car.
we'll see what happens. i hope they do me right on this.
BTW, did you try disconnecting the battery to erase the ECM memory, to see if the car would "relearn" idle and other settings and behave differently? I am just curious if this would have any effect. Kind of grasping at straws.
Think you'll get another Scion? Hey, I'm on my third Focus ZX3, Ford finally got it right....
aaron from scion called and said they are initiating the buyback of my current xB and are finding a replacement for mine.
i am very happy that scion is going to swap out the car. hopefully they will find the cause of the problem using my vehicle as a case study.
i've already heard from two others who have had the same problem. maybe scion will be able to find a fix to the problem.
I guess I have two automotive wishes: that Toyotas were more VW like in handling and ergonomics and materials choices; and that VW was a lot more Toyota-like in terms of customer service, if not basic reliability.
-juice
Shoot, down here in Austin with 50,000 UT students and all those alumni, you would think we could sell most of them down here in Texas.
Any thoughts on the orange. Check out the website.
I wonder if they would bring it back later as a permanent color or they will keep doing these occasional Special Releases. First time I heard of special releases for Scion. Was that a known sales plan to have these special releases to push the cars with these unique features like metallic orange paint.
Thanks,
Orange is aces! The dowdy color palette is a mistake, IMO. I frankly didn't like the car much, other than conceptually, prior to seeing one locally painted a bright, hot yellow (aftermaket I assume). What seemed ungainly and grotesque to me in bland colors turned quirky, spirited and fun in brights.
I think the orange is a serious winner, and I'd love to see some other jewel tones, neons or jelly bean colors in the palette.
-juice
Anyway, on to my Scion xB part of the post...saw the xB at the Detroit show, love it. Hope they can get one to Kansas City for me to buy before my patience runs out, would love to buy one---I'm in!
Joe
kudos to aaron and the rest of the people at scion for standing behind their product!
The A/C is decent.
Keep in mind, it's a small car's AC trying to cool a huge volume box.
I tinted the windows which helped a lot too.
It's not great, but it's better than our old Nissan Xterra.
"I read that coasting is bad...something to do with the catalytic converter and other damage that can occur."
It's been discussed that coasting isn't bad after all, but I think I know why zen2003 was confused, and wanted to post a clear explanation here.
The issue is not "don't coast a manual transmission or you will damage the catalytic convertor" -- the issue is that modern, catalytic-equipped cars with manual transmissions should not be PUSH-STARTED, or damage to the catalytic converter will result.
Hope that helps.
It is not a "fixed price" concept is it "posted price"
A dealer can ask any price they want- They do vary quite a bit- especially on options. And, they can't negotiate at all.
Scion audits each deal to make sure the charged prices match the dealers posted "menu" price.
-juice
-juice
echo owners complain about the weak air conditioner. what will xb owners say when the echo air conditioner has to cool almost twice the volume?
i've been in san diego. san diego probably has the most temperate climate in the usa.
i doubt san diego really tests an air conditioner like south florida with 95 degree temps and 95% humidity or phoenix where it gets to 115 degrees in the summer.
in places where it gets very hot and humid, you need a more powerful engine with a strong air conditioner.
i sure would like to hear from someone who has driven the xb in houston or las vegas in the middle of the summer.
all the above is only speculation. i don't own an xb or echo, but read a lot about the weak air.
benevolence, i'm glad the xb works for you.
Keep in mind, it's a small car's AC trying to cool a huge volume box.
I tinted the windows which helped a lot too.
It's not great, but it's better than our old Nissan Xterra.
For the nth time: they are not sold with a fixed price, it's a posted price.
You HAVE to ship around and compare.
Good luck. I've already made the decision to buy but will likely wait until Summer.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Anyway, I took a very brief test drive of an xB automatic today (the only one the dealer had -- no manuals on the lot), and was surprised at how responsive it felt, although the engine noise was a bit loud. My two-mile trip wasn't all that taxing, though, and the air conditioner wasn't running. And I have to admit that the vast amount of space around me was almost disconcerting.
The car's certainly on my short list for cheap thrills, though.
Unfortunately, this is southeastern Virginia, so the dealer (I won't mention names, but a regular poster on the Edmunds boards works there, or at least used to work there) tacks on a $399 "processing fee" over and above MSRP, and every dealer around here charges a similar cost, probably because the dealer lobby here in the Old Dominion is strong enough to counter any reasonable regulation (Chevy ads here display the cost after every rebate available, misleading customers into thinking they can get an Impala for twelve grand, which is possible only if you're in the military and buying with a recent college grad who charged his or her college tuition on a GM card, with an Oldsmobile, an import and a gas tank settlement-eligible pickup already in your personal fleet.) If I decide to get one, it may be worth a trip to Maryland to pick one up just to get out from under the fee. I know this isn't the topic of the board, but if I go to a store at the mall, I don't pay a fee over and above the price on the tag for the cost of the hanger and the reciept. Ugh.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am surprised how responsive the Echo is, even with an automatic. I guess that is the benefit of being about 400 pounds lighter than the Scion xA. Likewise, although I don't have a tachometer to confirm it, the engine seems a lot less "busy" than the Scion xA. One person posted an rpm calculator which indicated 75mph is about 3,000 rpm, which may be right and compares favorably to the 3,750 rpm on the Scion xA.
The Echo seems a tad - but only a touch - noiser than the Scion xA, which is surpising considering a good portion of the 400 pound weight differential on the Scion supposedly went into sound proofing. At highway cruise, the main difference in noise is some wind buffeting of the driver window. Engine noise is low on both cars, noise up through the tires is similar. That having been said, the Scion feels much better - solid, quite, deluxe. The Echo feels a little "tinny." But I can't put my finger on why, because the radio test - how loud I have to turn the radio on to hear it at highway speeds - indicates both cars are similar.
Anyway, I dropped in a K&N air filter on the Echo (also fits the Scion) to see if there was any performance increase, and swapped out the factory muffler for a Dynomax Super Turbo, the 17709 verions which is 7" round and 18" long. This is supposed to breathe much better than factory stock, but is very, very quiet. Truth is, I don't notice much difference in pep after the changes, but the motor doesn't seem to "roar" as much when it throws a downshift on a freeway onramp. In other words, the factory system is not "choking" this motor. I will say this though: the Echo took a long time to break-in, and now the motor and tranny are much more responsive. Also, since I am not worried about thrashing the car, I am driving it more aggressively - getting on the throttle to force downshifts instead of pussyfooting it. Driven this way, the Echo is surprisingly sporty. I wish the Scion were 400 pounds lighter!
One piece of curiosity when the Echo, muffler was removed, is that there was no electrical plug into the muffler. The Echo brochure and website indicate that there is supposed to be an electrically operated "cut out" in the muffler that opens and closes based on engine load and rpm, to allow better breathing when performance demands it. In fact, there is NO electrical lead to the muffler. Maybe it's in the resonator - the resonator before the muffler is about as big as some Civic sport compact mufflers, and almost as big as the stock muffler, and in fact the car wasn't that loud with the stock muffler off altogether (the muffler shop tried Flowmaster and Magnaflow mufflers before I settled on the Super Turbo).
So why am I reporting this? Because on my xA, I get a boom/resonating noise between 65 and 80. It's about the only thing I don't like about the xA (other than the laughable "trunk") and I'd like to get rid of the droning noise. My bet is a Super Turbo will do the job, at a lot less cost (and possibly less noise) than the TRD aftermarket muffler. The overall increase in exhaust noise will be less, and in fact the Super Turbo has a nice "sound" to it.
I paid $165 for parts and installation - $120 of that was a parts charge for the Dynomax 17709 muffler which is no longer current stock (the 17710 is the same size, slightly larger input and output, but easily adaptable to the Echo's tiny pipe size). I found out after the fact that you can mail order Dynomax's for considerably less - the 17710 mail order is only $67!
Any one else done intake or exhaust work yet?