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Scion xB - Hip to be square

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Comments

  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    The Scion and Element are ugly/functional/cute/
    The Aztek is ugly/ugly/ugly
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seriously - the Aztek was based on the minivan platform, which was square, and of course they angled the back and made it less boxy.

    The Element and xB are boxy. Really they look more like the van (Montana) than the Aztek.

    GM wants credit for something they had nothing to do with...

    -juice
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    I am no Aztek fan, but I understand it is very functional.

    I am a huge fan of the xB, but there are plenty of people who say it is just as ugly as the Aztek.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I think the Xb's design is "honest"

    What is the Aztek supposed to be?
    All the ribs, gills, vents, spoilers etc...conspire in futility to hide that it's a minivan that's had the roomy rear end hacked off
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    minivan that's had the roomy rear end hacked off

    That's how I feel about it. Apparently everyone else that didn't buy it also.

    The xB is an Echo station wagon, with tons of added space and utility. Plus it just looks cooler.

    -juice
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    I beg to differ on the interpretation of the Aztek and its influence on the industry. While I don't think the xB and Element are directly aimed at the Aztek (for that matter, the two of them are very different vehicles themselves), I think other manufacturers looked at the Aztek and said, "Wow, they almost hit a sweet spot there." Then they came up with their own interpretations of the funky-utility vehicle...and with the Aztek as an example of how not to do it, both Honda and Scion were able to nail it perfectly in their own ways.

    One thing I find about the Aztek is that, except for the really ardent haters who don't know anything about the vehicle, people tend to look at it and say, "If they would just change [something] and [something else] and make it a little [less/more] [something], it would be great." I think Honda and Scion/Toyota both had this reaction to the vehicle and it did, to some extent, inspire their design philosophy for the US market.

    By the way, sometime take a ride in an AMC Pacer. You'll be surprised how much that bizarre vehicle influenced the philosophy of packaging and interior space for modern cars. Same basic idea as what is happening with the Aztek.

    -Andrew L
  • cambocambo Member Posts: 10
    With a 5sp how does the xb do up hills?
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    if for nothing else, i think the aztek is a lousy car because it has that american car reliability and the chintzy interior.

    i really don't think you can compare the aztek with xB except for the fact that they are unconventional in design.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    i don't know where you are, but i'll give two proxies for people who live in so cal:

    1. the 101 freeway between newbury park and camarillo.

    2. the canyon roads between sherman oaks and hollywood (e.g. beverly glen and laurel canyon).

    with regard to the first example, the xB definitely gets a little challenged going uphill. this is a steep hill with, i think, a 5% grade on a freeway. you're going to have to spend some time in fourth gear to stay up to freeway speed going uphill--no way around that. having said that, it's not as if the car is going to be fighting, and it's no worse than any other econobox out there. you'd have the same issue if you were driving most other cars, and even in my BMW, i have to downshift to fourth to get comfortably up the hill--of course, i'm doing 80 to 90 in the BMW compared to 60 in the xB.

    with regard to the second example, the xB is just fine. again, you have to do some downshifting at certain points, but because the speed is about 35 to 40 mph as opposed to 65 or 70 mph, the car is pushed much less.

    bottom line? it's not going to race up the hill, but it's not going to be any worse than any other economy car out there.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    If you guys keep it up, we're going to end up with a "xB/Element/Aztek, what do you think?" topic.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Check out this week's copy of Newsweek.
    There's a big story about cool new designs for all kinds of products. Guess what's under the heading "Coolest New Car"
      
    Hint: it starts with the letter X.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    even that AAA publication, "westways," has a blurb on the scions being some of the best values in cars.

    i'm amazed that people are still unaware at the price point of these cars. most people who i've talked to are SHOCKED when they find out that the xB is $14K. it's as if that's the point that kind of makes the "what the heck where you thinking about when you bought that thing?" comments go away.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    the former is an abomination not even the rental car companies (several of which are OWNED by general motors) have picked up!

    the latter is the hippest new car to come along, and with a price point that quells pretty much all naysayers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Andrew - while the Aztec may have had some interesting ideas for the interior, most people never took a 2nd look. I think the sticker shock scared the rest of them off.

    If you look at Element, it's cheaper than CR-V. The xB is even more competitively priced. Perhaps at the low end of the market people are more tolerant of an "out there" design?

    The Avalanche is a hit for GM, while the Baja is a bomb for Subaru. I guess you can be ugly (or bizarre looking at least) as long as you offer some utility at a value price.

    -juice
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    when i first got the xB, i got a lot of smirks from my fellow workers, most of whom drive the latest BMW's, benzs, and porsches. when they heard that the car was $14K, they were silenced. a few of them even considered buying one for themselves at that price.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Obviously, everyone has a lot to say about this car.
    I've been letting people look at it and then they always ask how much they are.
    I make them guess first. Almost all guesses are 18-21K
    They all freak when I tell them 14-15K.
  • tnlandsailortnlandsailor Member Posts: 8
    Is a half sized Astro van called a
    Half Astro van? Just curious.

    This thing is seriously ugly. I was on the Toyota lot this last weekend and the guy told me they are selling like hotcakes on the left coast. Can't imagine why. I think the Chrysler K cars were much more attractive.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    If you need to have it explained to you, you would never understand.

    Enjoy your K-car.
  • tdubztdubz Member Posts: 9
    i wish the scions were for sale in texas right now so i could get a good laugh at all the people who buy them. you say its cheap, well so is a geo metro but you dont see me driving one.i think the guy aboe me summed it up great. looks like a clown car. and im willing to bet most of you guys who have one arent in the target audience. i bet yall are all like 40 and think its a "neat" car.this is the same problem the element had. older people buyin cars that were designed for younger people. sadly, these car companies have no idea what gen x wants in a car. scion might sell well in japan cuz that is what most cars look like over there, but i think it will be a huge flop in the usa. i bet in 1 yr, the majority of people driving scions will be fortysomething's and not teenagers and young adults
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    first, i think the xB is bulldog ugly. it's so ugly it looks cool, but it's edgy ugly, not AMC pacer ugly or aztek ugly. what people are also failing to consider is the fact that these cars are toyotas and thus have toyota reliability. these aren't your chintzy american cars with your typical american-car build quality (or lack thereof).

    i STILL challenge someone to find a NEW car with these features and this practicality--and this build quality/reliability--in this price range.

    second, i absolutely agree with the concept of "if you need it explained to you, you don't get it." tnlandsailor...where do you live? california car culture is seldom understood by those who live outside of california.

    finally, to tdubz...before you criticize the car, you really oughta at least wait until they come to texas before you speak. at this point you speak from a point of ignorance. this is the hottest-selling car in california right now, and although i'm sure you might not believe it, california IS the car capital of the world.
  • phil_landanphil_landan Member Posts: 8
    Yes, I agree, how can you diss a car you haven't even sat in!!! Have you looked at the scion.com web site, or read any of the responses here at all? Notice people who like the scion outnumber those who despise it, and I have yet to hear a good argument against a Scion xB which is edgy, economical and still practical vehicle for less than $15,000. I'm 26 (right in Toyota's target audience), and I can't wait until Metro Toyota in Kalamazoo, Michigan can start taking delivery on my Cherry Red Scion xB next year! I've told friends at WMU about this car, and when they see it on the web site,"Wow, why did Honda miss the mark so much with the Element?" Out of everyone I have talked to about the Scion at Western Michigan University, I have heard excitement and intrigue about the Scion xB and nothing buy complaints against the Honda Element. Note: I have seen only one Element on campus (with a 50+ year old professor exiting it), but I think next year you will start seeing quite a few Scions on campus!
  • tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    of xB is the least concern to me. But I have to admit that I am not the xB's target group of buyers. I cannot see how the car looks when I am driving it. If people don't like the look, tough luck: it's my car. :)

    I also considered CR-V and Elememt. I don't like the Element's "suicide doors" and seating of 4. And, they are too expensive for me to buy it in cash, too low in mpg, and I really need the ABS and the stability control features.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Element and Baja both only seat 4, while the smaller and cheaper xB seats 5.

    They added utility and space and priced it right, it'll succeed regardless of how people react to the styling.

    -juice
  • tdubztdubz Member Posts: 9
    scootertrash, isee i only misspelled one word so im not sure what your talking about. the rest of you are right, i havent seen the car in person or sat in it yet so you got me on that one. and if its the hottest selling car in california, who cares, people in california have always been a little different from the rest of the usa with their taste in things. and for the reason of no one else on here complaining about the scion heres a little fact. 96% of customers who are dissatisfied with a product or service dont complain. all im saying is the automotive world is a little different here in tx then it is in cali. here trucks and suv's rule and little compact cars dont do much of anything.i love everything about cars and learn as much as i can about them, but around here through all my conversations with people, i am yet to find one person who likes them. and im not just talking about people in my age range(23), but ive also spoke to many high schoolers, college students, and older adults about their feelings towards the car.and finally to andergtr, did you ever think that you are the one who is ignorant. not everyone is going to like this car, just becuz it sells well and everyone on this forum says good things about doesnt mean its true. you are all fans of the scion so of course you say good things about it. one final note, i do actually like something about scion. i actually like the huge range of options and accesories and think every car should have the same
  • benevolence6gcbenevolence6gc Member Posts: 19
    Im starting to see quite a few scions in the colleges student parking lot, so apparently not all younger people think this car looks awful or if they do they can see past it right to the utility it offers.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Forget the wait.

    Do like I did, fly to CA and drive one home.

    It was a fun drive and it's really a blast to have a totally unique car that most people have never seen before.--Especially 8-9 months before anyone else wiil have one

    .
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    and not 'trash' other people either in the boards or stereotype those who might be inclined to purchase a particular vehicle.

    Many thanks
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Yes, we should all just get in our jacked up Chevy trucks and hang out at Sonic and laugh at all the people who buy Scions.
    Yee haw.
  • tdubztdubz Member Posts: 9
    scootertrash you crack me up. incase you didnt know trucks are the best selling vehicles in the usa. the ford f series has been the best selling vehicle in the usa for the past 26 yrs. not everyone who drives trucks are cowboys. its funny how personal you take my comments. all ive said is that i believe the scion will go the way of the element and that it was funny looking. just giving everyone a different perspective, no harm done.
  • mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    Too small for the big roads and one cannot throw a barrel or a crate inside it. Well, maybe only one. And then to clean all this up? No, xB is a city car.

    Element is a very nice car too but I do not need an SUV, especially a quasi SUV, I would better get Impreza than an Element.
  • phil_landanphil_landan Member Posts: 8
    Let's stop comparing this cute little econobox to SUVs and Trucks! This car is not going to replace my wonderful Toyota 4Runner, its just going to be my commuter car! When I want to play on my toys (jet skis, dirt bikes, borrowed snowmobiles, etc...), I still need a truck or an SUV. But commuting to and from work and to and from school doesn't require the 4Runner...besides think of all the air I can save for someone else to breathe!
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    other than in a magazine or on a website? until you sit in one, you still speak out of ignorance.

    as far as texas buyers versus californian buyers...my brother lives in austin and goes to school out there, so i'm hardly uninformed about the whole SUV/truck rage out there.

    all i'm saying is...sit in the car and check one out in person before you pass judgment on it.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    and what SUV are you going to find for $14K brand new?
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "i wish the scions were for sale in texas right now so i could get a good laugh at all the people who buy them."

    "the guy aboe me summed it up great. looks like a clown car"

    "i think it will be a huge flop in the usa."

    You made my point.

    The reaction to the car is interesting.
    This car gets comments from everybody, everywhere.

    I have noticed that all "car people" love it. Most young people seem to love it too. Absolute strangers run up and make raving comments EVERY time I drive it. Generally, the less pretentious and phoney they are, the more they will like it.

    The people who either hate it or are visibly displeased, are either just old, or toupee-wearing Corvette types, or big-hair Lexus women and of course, the "chrome-mud-flap-girl" crowd.

    It really is interesting, I've had the Scion for a month and I am able to predict with great accuracy, ahead of time, which acquaintances will like it and which won't.

    If the style of the Scion bothers these people, that only increases it's appeal to me.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    A few months ago, I had gone to a Scion Tour test drive event along with some friends and their family. At first, my friend's family thought they wouldn't be caught dead in the xB. Now it's the complete opposite, in fact they just bought a xB!

    This is a CAR, not a SUV that gets 10 mpg - and it really grows on you. As someone else said, it's an undiscovered gem! The xB is simply the most appealing car I've ever sat in, and that includes cars that I've checked out in Japan.

    For the skeptics, I say: reserve your comments until you drive one and check out the limo-like roomy interior.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Huge flop? Sales are strong so far, watch or you might end up with your foot in your mouth! ;-)

    People said the same exact thing about the Element. Guess which was the best selling new import name plate last year?

    -juice
  • northwest1northwest1 Member Posts: 65
    Regardless of the debate over the merits of the xB:

    it'll succeed/flop
    it's attractive/ugly
    you would buy one or not

    To me, the bottom line is that it is a competitively priced vehicle (given the level of content and expected reliability) and is different from most anything else out there. To boot, it is affordable enough to be a realistic option to most anyone in the market for a new car.

    Having different automotive choices is a GOOD thing...even if you don't like or want to buy this particular different vehicle (the xB), it hopefully will encourage other manufacturers to develop that different car which might appeal to YOU. Regardless of how you feel about the xB as a personal choice, I hope we all want it to succeed so as to validate the consumer market's desire for different CHOICES. Maybe this will serve to get more auto makers to offer small station wagons again, which is my personal desire.

    Otherwise, we could just be satisfied with a generic mass market/focus-grouped/offends-no-one cars like a Malibu or Camry. That's not the automotive world I want to be in.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    How can you compare an xB and an SUV? The xB has all the on-road functionality with good gas mileage and a reasonable price. What do they have in common?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just the utility of the space offered. I think it's also natural to compare it to the Element.

    I mean, is it closer to a Lancer Ralliart wagon or a FWD Outlander? Tough call...

    -juice
  • tdubztdubz Member Posts: 9
    all of you had made good points. the xb is a car that either you will love it or hate it, which gives the car alot of emotion.this is why i dont need to sit in it or drive it, i just am not a fan of its looks. atleast is it not boring like the other scion.

    andregtr, i bought a brand new 2003 f150 stx. msrp was 23000, i got it for 17000. this is way below a loaded xb (i priced one the other day on the scion website and it came out to 18,942) i could have even got a supercrew for 18000.

    anyways i have a few questions for yall who have bought a xb
    1)hows driving at highway speed(75-85mph)? i know alot of compact cars dont do to well at tthese speeds so im curious to how the xb handles them.

    2)can 3 adults (6ft and over) fit comfortably in the back seat?not just leg and head room but hip room too.

    3)whats with the no hassle price? does this mean you cant negoitate to get the price below or close to invoice?

    4)anyone have the bazooka bass tube option?this seems like a waste of money for a $430 option when you can get way better at a auto store.just wanted to know how it shounded since other bazookas ive heard havent been that great
  • mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    (2) No, only 2. The limit is the width, but the legroom is literally limo-like. The headroom is pretty big too.

    (3) Don't you have Saturns in Texas as well? Price is fixed, MSRP is the price for everyone.

    (4) It is called an "option" so you would not waste money on it.

    By the way, the CD/MP3 is not bad, it even shows ID3 tags.
  • phil_landanphil_landan Member Posts: 8
    I'm sorry, dude...but you opened yourself up for this one...I have to reply, hopefully I don't sound too rude...but how do you compare a base model regular cab RWD P/U with a loaded econobox FWD wagon? Let's make this comparison as Apples to Apples as possible:
    The base Scion xB has a lot more standard features than the F150 as it is, so why would you fully load an xB to compare it pricewise? If you read comments here or at Scionlife, most people only get 0-2 options on their xB...people who customize their vehicles would still rather do it themselves. Anyhow, for pricing you should be comparing the base to the base?
    TMV price: F150=$17,071 Scion=$14,653
    How much time did it take you to negotiate the $17,000 price that (according to Edmunds) is what you should have paid anyhow?
    Negotiation time: F150=30minutes(est.) Scion=0minutes
    Standard Warranty: F150=3/36,000 Scion=3/36,000
    Drivetrain Warranty: F150=3/36,000 Scion=5/60,000
    Roadside Assist: F150=3/36,000 Scion=NA
    Rust: F150=5/unlimited Scion=5/unlimited
    Recalls: F150=2 Scion=0
    TSBs: F150=1 Scion=0
    Manufacturer Suggested Maintenance in the first 25,000 miles: F150=11 Scion=4
    Power to Curb Weight ratio: F150=.051 Scion=.048
    Power to Gross Weight ratio: F150=.033 Scion=.033
    Payload: F150=2060lbs. Scion=925lbs.
    Gas Mileage: F150=17/20 Scion=30/33
    Drive: F150=RWD Scion=FWD
    Suspension: F150=IFS Scion=IFS
    Stabilizer bars: F150=front Scion=front&rear
    Safety: F150=4wheelABS Scion=4wheelABS, emergency brake assist, traction control, stability control
    Seating Capacity: F150=3 Scion=5
    Tilt steering? F150=no Scion=yes
    Stereo: F150=24W AM/FM/cassette w/ mast antenna and 4 speakers Scion=160W AM/FM/CD w/ element antenna and 6 speakers
    Front Head Room: F150=40.8" Scion=46.1"
    Front shoulder room: F150=63.8" Scion=48.7"
    Front hip room: F150=61" Scion=50.7"
    Front leg room: F150=40.9" Scion=44"
    Rear Head Room: F150=N/A Scion=46.6"
    Rear shoulder room: F150=N/A Scion=50"
    Rear hip room: F150=N/A Scion=50.6"
    Rear leg room: F150=N/A Scion=31.6"
    (although I included hip and shoulder room to make this a fairer comparison...the factors that matter most to me 6'0" and some of my close friends 6'3", 6'5" and 6'1" are head room and leg room which the Scion excels in!)
    Was anyone keeping score? F150/ties/Scion=5/3/19
    The Scion wins the fairer comparison! Amazing!
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    No offense, but why spend so much time making a completely irrelevant "comparison"?

    What does any of that have to do with anything related to this discussion?

    Like I said, if my Scion confuses the "chrome mudflap girl" bunch hanging out at Sonic, that makes me like it even more.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    a loaded xB is mostly cosmetic options, and maybe a few performance options. compare the standard car to the fully loaded one, and you will find that most of the difference is in body decals, illuminated cup holders, etc. you can hardly draw a distinction between a loaded SUV or truck and a loaded xB.

    as far as your questions:

    1. it's fine at highway speed. it drives like an economy car, because that's what its platform is based on (the toyota echo). a good proxy is the echo.

    2. you can easily fit three 6+ foot adults in the xB. it is cavernous.

    3. the "no hassle" price means that there is a fixed price at the dealer. given that anyone can go online and price out the car, it's essentially whatever you price the car out at online. you can go to any dealer and get the same price, but not necessarily the same service. one dealer might charge you a little less for add-ons, and another might throw in floor mats for free, though.

    4. i don't have the bazooka tube. the thing has more than enough bass on its own, unless you want to go bumping obnoxiously down the sunset strip.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I can do better than an F-150/Scion comparison.

    Forget the Scion. We should all buy 1972 Buick Le Sabres.

    The Buick is superior in all ways. Here is PROOF:

    Engine: Lesabre, 455 cubic inches. Scion 1.5L

    Size: Lesabre, 21 feet. Scion, Half of that.

    Sound System: Lesabre 8-Track. Scion:8-track not available.

    Insurance: Lesabre $92 yr. Scion: 645 yr.

    Weight: Lesabre, 5625. Scion, 2250

    Purchase Cost: Lesabre $475. Scion 14,475

    Price per pound: Buick buick 8.3 cents. Scion: $6.43

    Value of Lesabre ownership: Priceless

    These are the undisputed facts.
    You all must agree. No one should buy a Scion.
  • tdubztdubz Member Posts: 9
    andregtr, my f150 was not base, while it was a v6, it had every power option and alarm. with the stx package i got chrome wheels,cabsteps,$700 kenwood mp3 player,custom grille, foglights,sportseats,custom bumpers, and a few extras. total option price was 995. and for 17,000, i thought it was a great deal. got it that cheap cause of rebates and negotiation.

    not sure if i like that no hassle price. most of the new cars i have bought i have got below invoice, where the dealer hardly makes any money. but i guess with scion they plan to make most of there money on options( im guessing) so they probably have the price as low as it will go anyways.

    scootertrash, i never was comparing the f150 to a scion, i was just comparing the prices
  • hest88hest88 Member Posts: 31
    I think the xB is a majorly ugly car, but it's on our short-list anyway. (My husband likes the way it looks, though!) The dealer told us that instead of selling them to young guys, he's actually selling a lot to young families who are wowed by how well they can fit the kids and groceries into what is an extremely reasonably-priced vehicle.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    My baby carrier has problems fitting ON the rear seat, but behind it, no problem!

    ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You had me at "8 track"! ;-)

    -juice
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    you really should be comparing your F-150 as priced with the price of an almost-stock xB. the only thing that really makes sense to add on as an option to compare to your truck is the cold air intake. everything else is cosmetic, and doesn't add to the performance of the xB. either that, or you need to start adding things like illuminated cup holders and graphic decals and such to the cost of your F-150 to make any sort of even-close-to-reasonable comparison.

    still, you got a great deal on your truck--no doubt about that. you just can't compare the F-150 to the xB because they are two totally different vehicles. if you want to compare only PRICE, then we can also make a case to compare the xB to any econobox out there--and the xB on features and roominess alone would pretty much nuke the competition.

    about the no-haggle pricing...i like the fact that the price is the price. i don't care about how much or how little the dealer makes; i only care about how much is left in my bank account after i buy the car. besides, "invoice" is a lousy way to ascertain how well you are doing. embedded in the invoice price is a ton of kickback/incentive money to the dealer for selling the car.
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