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Scion xB - Hip to be square

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Comments

  • hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    mikus,

    I'm pretty pleased with my selected accessory package. A particular option need not add horsepower in order to be worthwhile (i.e. fog lights, chrome shift knob or internal LED lights). As for the supercharger, there's no way I am going to buy a Matrix. I like the Scion xB so I'd rather plug a supercharger into it (which I probably won't) than buy anything else. And for cruise control, that's something I use all the time on my current car, since I do alot of night driving on the 101. Therefore it's a feature I'd definitely want to have on the Scion xB. I think the asking price for it ($300-$400) is acceptable.

    As for the quickshifter, check out the consensus on scionlife forums or the scion-owners forums. People are pleased with it and it does indeed seem to make for a better shifting experience, so this is definitely something I would want.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    "Cruise control -- what for? I used CC on my Camry maybe twice for three years...Anyway, you wanted more control with manual gearbox. CC is less control."

    A manual and an automatic give the exact same amount of control when cruising for long distances without changing speeds. Cruise control has nothing to do with it.

    "Chrome shift knob -- how many horspowers does this add?"

    What does that have to do with anything?

    "Debating cold air intake -- I would not pay more than $20 for this, and only for cool looking cromed or painted intake. Maybe it is really "Cool" Air Intake, not cold?"

    Do you have a dyno graph to back this up?

    "Why would not you just buy Matrix XRS?"

    Too much weight, no torque, and of course, it looks like a swollen xA.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    regarding insurance and the classification...my agent was pretty confused as to what the vehicle was classified as. i think they ended up calling it a wagon. fine by me--wagons are cheaper to insure.

    regarding horsepower...108 hp obviously isn't much, but who in their right minds is going to be looking at the xB as any kind of performance vehicle? it's a cool car for what it is, and, believe it or not, 108 hp is plenty peppy. i got a speeding ticket on the way to work last week for doing 80+, so it's not like you can't drive fast enough in the vehicle. as far as acceleration, it's not really any slower than any other econobox out there--and it carries a lot more people/cargo than any econobox that matches it for acceleration.

    regarding gas mileage...i've been averaging about 28 mpg (i've kept records in an excel spreadsheet). i think scion is way off the mark in their estimates, and i drive a combination of city/highway (mostly highway). maybe if i drove 55 mph, i might get their results.

    regarding the styling and potential trendiness of the xB...i don't think you can compare the aztek to the xB. the aztek is a pontiac, and pontiacs aren't known for their reliability or for attracting young buyers. toyota is at least addressing the latter with its matrix and the new scions, and their tacomas and trucks are still big sellers with younger buyers. the aztek also wasn't priced at $14 grand!

    regarding accessorizing the xB...i bought my xB as a second car, one to put all the commuting miles and as a utility car. it's not my first and only car, so i'm not as quick to accessorize it. in my mind, the car is greatest as a utility vehicle--it carries so much stuff and so many people so comfortably with decent-enough gas mileage that i'm not concerned with decking it out as a sporty car or as a youthmobile. for me personally, the idea of a CAI or a supercharger is kinda silly--it's like wearing the $500 ferragamos with the $200 suit.

    as far as things like cruise control and a sunroof...well, those things are nice to have, but i can count the number of times i've used cruise control in LA traffic on one hand, and spending over $1000 on a sunroof starts to take the appeal away of having such a cool car for $14 grand.

    your dealer oughta throw in the floor mats, trunk mat, and the cargo net with the car, free of charge. mine did that.

    my two cents...
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    I find most, if not all the accessories for the xB to be overpriced and in some cases poor quality frills. I do realize that some may want functional add-ons like cruise control or an armrest (I do). Scions are probably the first vehicles that Toyota is selling without playing their usual options games, and the accesories are just profit packs for the dealers and Toyota. The cargo cover as an example is a flimsy, cheap looking cover that dangles between two hooks, unlike a real tonneau cover. I've read many owners complaining about the quality of the $120 floor mats on other forums.

    To me, adding accessories to the xB is like putting makeup on a natural beauty queen - none of it is needed. This car is really cool as is - I agree completely with andergtr.
  • mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    <muffin_man>A manual and an automatic give the exact same amount of control when cruising for long distances without changing speeds. Cruise control has nothing to do with it.</muffin_man>

    I did not say that CC has to do something with the transmission type. I said that using CC means to be in less control of the car. Thus, if the point of having manual gearbox is to be in more control, CC seems as a step backwards. Do you drive with your feet over pedals when you put the car to CC? Do not think so. Thus you would need another 0.5-1 s to move your right foot from under the seat or where it was before to apply brakes or accelerator. It is OK to use CC if you drive 60 mph in the right lane with no overtakes on straight Nevada highway.

    <muffin_man>"Chrome shift knob -- how many horspowers does this add?"
    What does that have to do with anything?</muffin_man>

    Because it obviously does not:
    * makes car lighter
    * makes better feeling in the palm (hot in sunshine, cold in winter)
    * allows more precise throws, or
    * reduce driver's distraction from shiny thingies.

    Thus I thought that maybe it at least helps with horsepower. Well, seems it does not. Bummer.

    <muffin_man>"Debating cold air intake -- I would not pay more than $20 for this, and only for cool looking cromed or painted intake. Maybe it is really "Cool" Air Intake, not cold?"
    Do you have a dyno graph to back this up?</muffin_man>

    No. And even if I had I believe to Toyota motorists who have built the engine, more than to some third-party garages. There ain't no free cakes. If you gain somewhere, you lose somewhere, like in air filtering quality. Well, maybe not much enough to break your engine right away during the warranty period. Or you lose in the noise level.
  • hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    Point taken on the floor mats. I hadn't planned on getting the cargo mats. Many people on the forums are saying go with a bare bones setup, then decide what you really want later, or go (less expensive) aftermarket.

    There's still a tennis match going on inside my head as to whether or not to get the xB in the first place. No winner has emerged yet.

    And I'm surprised that people don't use cruise control. I in fact just used it on the way to work this morning. I also used it last Saturday night when driving home...it's something I get good use out of.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I like to drive my car, not mindlessly let it take me for a ride.

    Thus I operate the controls, not the cruise control.

    If you don't like to actually drive your, just take a bus and you'll never have to step on the gas pedal.
  • hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    That was real constructive.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I find it ironic that someone who has never driven a stick shift before thinks they need maximum control to point that they are worried about a 1/100th of a second difference in the shifting of a car which they are indecisive about even buying at all, would need cruise control which serves the sole purpose of isolating the driver from the driving experience.
    Kind of funny.
  • hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    If I get the Scion, I'm getting cruise control. AND I'm getting manual. End of discussion.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    if you want more gusto out of the car, get the stick. however, this is a 108 hp car. it's not a rocket, and it never will be. it doesn't hug corners like a great german car, but it's not a pig, either.

    i like the whole idea of individualizing the car--there was an xB parked outside my place yesterday that had either 17" or 18" wheels on it, and it looked great--but when you start talking about CAI and clutch kits to make the car go faster, it's kinda pointless in my mind. the xB is a cool-looking utility car that can do a lot and is easy on the wallet. to load the thing up with accessories and to bring it up to the $16K to $18K range almost defeats the purpose of the car, in my mind.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I agree- Personalize a XB with a few goodies, calm down and enjoy the ride.

    If you need something to beat-on borrow money from your mom and get a Civic , spray paint it flat black and buy a loud muffler on e-bay.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    you are better off just buying a used civic or integra and then tricking it out. the xB is a very cool car for what it is, but it's more the kind of car you go cruising in on a friday or saturday night than a car that you drag a la "the fast and the furious."

    my guess is that xB buyers are split into two types--the cruising type that tricks them out for fun and for show and the type that buys them as a utility vehicle. i'm more the latter--it's kinda hard to dress the xB up as a show vehicle when your other car is a BMW 325ci, you know? :)

    still, i love the xB for what it is, and i drive that a good six out of seven days in the week.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    mikus
    >It is OK to use CC if you drive 60 mph in the >right lane with no overtakes on straight Nevada >highway.

    How about 70 in the second lane from the left with no traffic? Why don't you put together a chart of when it is ok to use the cruise control -I wouldn't want to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities.

    >Because it obviously does not:
    >* makes car lighter

    Neither does the body cladding that covers the Matrix.

    >* makes better feeling in the palm (hot in >sunshine, cold in winter)

    Maybe he should get the "every surface covered in tempurpedic foam" option, just to make sure that he doesn't experience any undue discomfort.

    >No. And even if I had I believe to Toyota >motorists who have built the engine, more than >to some third-party garages. There ain't no free >cakes. If you gain somewhere, you lose >somewhere, like in air filtering quality. Well, >maybe not much enough to break your engine right >away during the warranty period. Or you lose in >the noise level.

    The only "compromise" made with intake and exhaust is gas mileage and noise. And AEM is slightly more than a third party garage.

    scootertrash
    >I find it ironic that someone who has never >driven a stick shift before thinks they need >maximum control to point that they are worried >about a 1/100th of a second difference in the >shifting of a car which they are indecisive >about even buying at all, would need cruise >control which serves the sole purpose of >isolating the driver from the driving >experience.
    >Kind of funny.

    Why do you care?
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Okay, I don't like the direction this discussion is going. We don't have to agree on everything, but we do need to be polite with one another, regardless of the circumstances.

    Please note: further back/forth bickering with be automatically removed. And let's get back to the subject of the Scion xB. Thanks!

    Revka
    Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I care because I am concerned about my fellow motorists.
      
    Even ones who want to be in control of their car while being isolated from actually touching their their gas pedal, except when they are speed shifting their poor little economy car.

    I care. Because that's the kind of guy I am.
  • mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    >> Because it obviously does not:
    >> * makes car lighter
    > Neither does the body cladding that covers
    > the Matrix.

    Yep, you are right. But currently XRS cannot be had without cladding, which comes standard. It is bolt-on, so I guess it can be taken off, but what to do with the holes? And what if the paint is already scratched up by these plastic skirts? I just hope that next year when Toyota implements its new packaging/options system which will allow to configure the car to every detail _before_ it would be actually build -- this should help. Then I would finally have XRS without cladding which I personally hate as much as xB standard cladding.

    Anyway, aside of some styling gimmicks, Matrix is a very nice, functional car.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    I agree, the Matrix is a very nice, functional car. I was just saying that the cladding on the Matrix, like the fancy shift knob on the xB is just for looks, just for fun.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Most cladding is to make a boxy car look swoopy.

    At least the Xb is using cladding to make a box look boxier.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Scion xB will succeed where others have failed, even after the hype dies down, for one primary reason: they start at $14k. People can overlook a lot for that price.

    -juice
  • mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    Add one grand and get Matrix or Protege5. ZX3 or Elantra could be had even for 12-something. So, the price is not exactly the strongest xB point. I would say more: they charge more for the car because it is so trendy now. Maybe in 2 years the price will drop down to Elantra level :)

    Also, I do not know how much is the cost of ABS or traction control or CD/MP3 player, but I would prefer a little stripped down xB for about 11-12k. While ABS is a must have on any modern car, even on the one being sold in California (ABS helped me a lot of times), having traction control on a car with 1.5-liter engine seems as overkill to me.
  • tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    According to the current issue of the Money magazine (Oct. 2003, page 130), the #1 car safety feature is the "electronic stability control (ESC)" system; this is not the old "traction control" that only stops the wheels from spinning.

    The following 2004 model cars offer it as an option, just to name a few here: Lexus ES300, IS300, Nissan 350Z, Murano, Pathfinder, Toyata Camry, Avlon, Infinity I35, Jaguar X-type, Volvo S80, V70, XC70, Porsche 911, Boxster, and Mini Cooper.

    The xB comes with it as a standard feature.

    Any cars that can skid or spin out of control will benefit from this safty feature, along with the ABS.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    It is interesting that the VSC is standard on the Xb but Toyota makes it optional on the $50k Lexus models.
  • tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    This is from Scion site's FAQ:

    "The vehicle stability control system is always activated, even if the traction control system is turned off."

    So, xB has both VSC and traction control. A driver can turn off the traction control by pressing the "TRAC OFF" switch, but the VSC is always on.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    xB has stability control and comes well equipped for that price. The list of cars you offered shows how impressive it is for Scion to have done this; they're all luxurious cars that cost a lot more.

    Matrix would cost more even if it offered that feature. The P5 just got replaced by the 3, we'll see where pricing falls for that model.

    -juice
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    the xB is appealing in large part because of its price. where else are you going to get that much car and toyota build quality for $14K?
  • mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    I need to research this, I hope it can be done by taking out one of the fuses, but if it is not that easy, then I will strike out xB from the list of the candidates for my next car.
  • phil_landanphil_landan Member Posts: 8
    What is so bad about Stability control, why would you need to disengage it? Same thing goes for the traction control? I understand that on a sports car you disable those kind of devises so that you can get a better burnout, et. al., but what difference does that make on a 108hp compact 'wagon'? Someone please explain this to me.
    P.S. I'm going to test drive this thing when they bring it to Chicago on the test drive tour...and I plan on buying one as soon as they are available here on the West side of Michigan (Kalamazoo Area)...but if they come out in Chicago first I might shun my local dealer (Metro Toyota) and drive back to Chicago to pick mine up!!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    See how it's tuned first. Some systems are very conservative and can indeed spoil all the fun. Others only intervene when you're really about to lose it. The latter would be fine even on the track.

    -juice
  • rwgreenbergrwgreenberg Member Posts: 154
    Just thought I'd throw relate my experience with this. I bought a Focus ZX3 manual trans a couple of years ago and ordered it with cruise.... just because I never had this feature on a car I've owned. Anyway, when I need to take the car for a very long drive down a boring highway I find the cruise to be invaluable. It lets me stretch my legs for a few minutes and really makes the drive more comfortable. Also, I find it fun to use.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I agree that cruise control is valuable just for giving your right leg and foot some time to stretch and relax for a few minutes. As an alternative, on my last interstate drive I threw my xA into neutral on whatever downhills I encountered. It helped a lot. But cruise control is much better.

    Where cruise control isn't good, if spacing out on the straightaways. Esp. at night....
  • mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    > As an alternative, on my last interstate drive I threw my xA into neutral on whatever downhills I encountered.

    Do not do that, always keep engine connected to the wheels, unless you want to get killed.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I like cruise control too, but I also take my hands off the wheel and sit in the back seat.

    You can do that if the road is straight and you loop the seatbelt through the steering wheel.

    I have a hibachi in the back and I take a few moments to grill a hot dog.
    It's more interesting than actually driving.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    come on, guys...we're talking about a 108 hp wagon, not a sports car. i love my xB to death, but it's a fun, utility car. it's no rocket, and my BMW beats the living tar out of it when it comes to cornering. i can't imagine anyone needing to defeat traction or stability control. i mean, how many drivers here are really trying to hit that late apex in the curves?
  • tundradudetundradude Member Posts: 588
    Its interesting when I keep seeing that 108 isn't much hp. I think of cars I have had in the past that would have loved to have 108 hp. Example: 79 Celica.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    it's funny when you look at the horsepower figures today. three years ago i had an acura CL type S, and i remember being astounded that a car in that class that 260 hp. it was a fairly quick car. now it seems like every mid-sized six-cylinder car pushes in the mid-200 hp range.

    but it's not all about horsepower, either. i had problems with my acura and dumped it for a 2002 BMW 325ci, which i love. the acura was 260 hp, and the BMW is 184 hp. yes, the acura is faster, but it's not as much of a difference as you would think. the torque range of the BMW is so linear that it really screams for a car with relatively "little" horsepower. in the turns...fuggedboutit. the acura would be choking on the BMW's exhaust.

    how does this relate to the xB? well, the 108 hp rating seems awfully low at first glance. it's true that 108 hp doesn't get you a lot of acceleration, but i don't have a problem getting up to speed on the onramps, and i certainly don't have a problem with top speed in the car--two weeks ago, i got a ticket on the way to work in the xB for doing over 80 mph.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I had no problem cruising with the normal flow of traffic from LA to Vegas.--at 92 mph.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    LOL scoot! :-)

    My old Chevy Sprint had a blistering 49 HP! Yoo-hoo! I still got speeding tickets, too.

    With more than double you should be OK. There are horsepower wars going on right now but mostly it's overkill unless you live next to the autobahn. ;-)

    -juice
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    I think that the xB is another in the long (but not long enough) line of slow cars that are probably fun to drive fast.
  • phil_landanphil_landan Member Posts: 8
    I saw a xB this weekend at a Toyota dealership. I know that people have seen them in other midwest and eastern states but this is the first dealership in Michigan I have seen displaying them. The way these dealerships are getting them ahead of release is they are buying them from other dealerships in California and then displaying them and selling them as 'used' at more than sticker price for new! Nice scam, they get to have the cars before Toyota says they can sell them, and they get to make money off them at the same time before the new Scions come in!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's incredible what they're willing to do for profit.

    But it's common, a dealer in my area used to buy 4Runners from North Carolina, when they were really in hot demand, drive them up to DC, then sell them at a markup.

    If customers want to pay a markup for a used car, well, a fool and his money will soon part!

    -juice
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    Think my '87 Integra had something like 118 horses and at the time that was alot, or at least as many as you could get in a 1.6 litre motor. Seemed like plenty anyway.
    Overlooked is horsepower-to-weight ratio. I'm no engineer, but at less than 2500 lbs. and 108 hp, the xb ought to be fine. You want more than fine you probably want a different car anyway.
    By the way, I know a guy who works for Toyota. He said January xb arrivals for the Boston area.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    the 108 hp is more than adequate for most driving situations, unless you're on the autobahn. to get on the freeway, you'll just need to push it a little harder, but you won't find that you have any problems passing other cars.

    i agree that the horsepower wars are out of control. what are you going to do with 350 hp in a car these days?
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    There is some advantage to having a little more horsepower for long distance rides, but for going around town, 350hp is almost useless.

    Man do I want an xB.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I dropped off the xA today at the dealer. The aircon is terrible! I can faintly hear it clicking on and off, and it spends far more time "off" than on. When I turn up the fan, I don't get more "on" time on the compressor, I get the same time with air that is even less cool than before.

    It was hard to get the dealer to take me seriously. I think they get a lot of cold air (lack of ) complaints on all cars. But, honest, on my other cars I run the fan on the lowest setting and even on hot days I am usually clicking the air con off after a few minutes because it gets too cold - the air at the vents is downright cold on my other cars, unlike the xA which is merely mildly cool.

    I did own an Echo last year for a while, and it was definitely colder than this, adequate for me (but perhaps not for other drivers). So I don't think it is a problem with the basic compressor and aircon system design.

    I will keep you posted. As of 2pm the dealer is waiting for the ambient temperature to warm up to 77 degrees - believe it or not, their test manual only allows testing at 77 degrees ambient and above. Naturally it was 82 yesterday and is only 73, last time I checked, today.

    Andergtr, isn't the motor smooth? Mine has gotten quieter after 2,000 miles of driving. It doesn't "boom" as much. Maybe when it was breaking in, the exhaust valve was opening more easily to give it some more pep.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    It really is funny, the unbelievable attention this car gets.
    Everywhere I go, people don't just look at it, they drop what they are doing to closely examine it. Tonight we went to dinner, stopped at home depot and to a furniture store. At each place, when we came out, there were people standing by the car staring at it and asking tons of questions when we approached.
    I've never has so many total strangers ask if they could sit in a car.
    Their pronunciation of Scion is pretty funny though.
    "s-coin"
    "sky-on"
    and my favorite:
    "scallion"
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    i didn't find my engine to be less smooth early on compared to now (i have about 3300 miles on it). it drives like an econobox and the engine is fine but not especially powerful. still, that's not why you get this car, and for what it does, it's much more than adequate.

    i love my car. i took the car by tom anderson guitarworks in newbury park, CA, the guys who build my guitars (i'm a musician on the side). everyone was amazed when they sat inside the car--tom himself said that it was like a mini cooper crossed with a suburban! at $14K, it's the ultimate car for lugging around music gear.

    even fully loaded, it had no problem coming up to speed on the freeway, and the braking was excellent.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    is "scone," as in the breakfast pastry.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Scone is a good one!

    I've also heard it referred to as a:
    Mini Hummer, Mini Mercedes G-Wagon, 4-door Mini Cooper, and a half-size Astro van

    I saw two guys looking at it the other day and their discussion summed the reaction:

    Guy 1: "Man that car is cool, I love that thing!"
    Guy 2:" Yeah, it's cool if you're a clown in the circus!"
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    LOL on the pronunciation of the name!

    GM has an ad in Automotive News that pictures the Aztek, then the xB, then the Element, and they call themselves trendsetters! Can you believe it? They're so clueless!

    -juice
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