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Scion xB - Hip to be square

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    coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    I'll have to keep an eye out for your xB! I live in Northern Kentucky and it won't be hard to know it's you!
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The Scion xB is now categorized as a "compact wagon" in Edmunds' new car guide.

    There's no "tall wagon" category yet I guess, but don't be surprised to see it re-categorized again if one flops up.

    So.... guess we'll move this board over to Wagons just to keep consistent. Since most people get here through the Make/Model links, most won't notice. But if you scroll through All Discussions in SUVs, it's going AWOL shortly.

    Steve, Host
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Yes, despite my misconceptions about my store-bought coolness, My Scion Xb is viewed by the State of Arizona, and registered, as a Toyota Station Wagon.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Maybe since it's really just a Toyota Station Wagon they can offer a cool wood grain paneling kit.

    But in a "Scion Style" with carbon fiber, led lightning and some anodized aluminum trim.
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    michiganminimichiganmini Member Posts: 1
    Greetings, all. I'll have to wait until next Spring before the xB shows up in my neck of the woods (Ann Arbor, Michigan) to see for myself whether the Box-on-Wheels is truly underpowered. In the meantime, what do those of you who've driven the xB think about the stock engine? I know the xB isn't a speed racer, but would like to drive something with a least a LITTLE oomph.
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    s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    It is very subjective. If it's slower than what you're used to driving, it will feel underpowered.
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    mdmetzmdmetz Member Posts: 27
    There's a 1.5L Yaris Turbo in Japan and continental Europe that makes about 150-160 hp (it's not available in the UK, though… see http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=35169 ). Perhaps Toyota can get a retrofit kit past CARB and market it through TRD, like the supercharger for the Camry/Tacoma/4Runner V6.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure there will be a strong aftermarket for these cars, eventually.

    -juice
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    vmaturovmaturo Member Posts: 71
    Let's see now. 108 hp at 2469lbs.

    What could possibly be slower? At a time when everything is getting more and more hp, here comes the xB with 108.

    I just don't get it. Doesn't a Vespa scooter have more power?
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    If the xB had the the power of a Vespa, and came in the same pastel colors, it would be the perfect car.
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    revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and welcome you back to the Wagons Board!

    scootertrash - Why "sad reality"? Wagons usually have lower insurance rates and better gas mileage than SUVs. ;-)

    andergtr- #319. I enjoyed looking at your Scion xB pics! That dark blue color is very sharp.

    sickboyjg- "first in OHIO." Congratulations! We look forward to hearing more about your Scion xB.

    Revka
    Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons
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    stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    I find the xB's power to be just fine, but it may be inadequate to satisfy the never ending thirst for more powerful engines in the US.

    This is simply the coolest car I've driven: unique styling, HUGE interior, low levels of NVH, and it's fun to drive! Given a choice between another boring sedan or SUV with 300 hp, or the xB with 108 hp for the same price, I'd pick the xB any day. In fact I'd be willing to pay $10K more for the xB.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I know, I know, it's just a Toyota station wagon, and all the paperwork, title and registration says so (Make: Toyota, Body Style: Station Wagon)

    Anyone want to bet that Toyota/Scion will NEVER call it that?
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    I don't know if I would pay $10k more for the xB, but I could only imagine how much fun it would be to spend $10k on it in the aftermarket.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think C&D tested 0-60, it wasn't bad, in the 9s IIRC. That's quicker than the last Navigator they tested, at 10+.

    A Vespa probably would never reach 60, would it?

    -juice
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    But isn't a Vespa about that freewheeling Italian lifestyle more than actually merging with traffic?

    I thought the power of the xB was good enough. It's no rocket, but it's definitely fun to drive.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're right. Check this out, a local club:

    http://baltimorebombshells.actiongirlart.com/

    -juice
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    sanfrandansanfrandan Member Posts: 20
    So I'm at work taking a moment to check out Edmunds, and I click on the link above.

    A woman's voice pops out of my computer and says "We KNOW how fast WE can go...."

    Great. Back to work for me....

    - San Fran Dan
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My speaker must be turned down, I didn't catch that! Sorry! :o)

    -juice
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    r34r34 Member Posts: 178
    I think the Cold Air Intake is one of the options for xA & xB. Does anyone know how much it is and the improvement ? Thanks.
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    mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    My Camry V6 is timed as 9.5 to 60. Well, not exactly mine, because mine is 5-speed ;) So 9 s to 60 is pretty respectable. But do not forget that loaded with 5 people the car will get almost 50% heavier ;)

    1.5 is enough, but I would want better mileage with it. 30/33 for 1.5 xB and 30/35 for 1.8 Matrix make no sense for me.

    CAI is a stupid stupid thing. The "coolness" of the air gives nil, the effect comes from less restrictive filter. Do you want to kill your engine earlier by highly abrasive dust? Go with CAI. Oh, maybe you want to sell the car in three years. Then do not tell a buyer that you had CAI installed on it.
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    micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    On a 400 mile roundtrip to Yosemite I got 37 mpg. I refilled on level ground, one click after auto shutoff to "top off", same way I refilled prior to measurement.

    The car is capable of good mileage. It is a stick. I'll be curious to hear field reports on the xB which is less aerodynamic.
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    mikus -
    I disagree about the CAI. If the less restrictive filter was the difference, than dyno runs would show that a K&N drop-in gives the same benefits as a CAI, and it does not. Why would Toyota offer a CAI option if it was damaging to the engine? If it was as bad as you say, long term reliability would be compromised, and that would look bad for Toyota.

    ateixeira -
    ah, the Vespa lifetsyle...
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    Couple questions:

    1) Why is it that most people go with automatic transmission for the Scion xB? I would think most people would want manual. I have never driven manual before but I am going to get a manual xB.

    2) Debating Cold Air intake. Will I notice the difference? I want better performance than factory but the supercharger is far too expensive. Do I have any other options?

    3) Debating TRD quickshifter. Opinions?

    The options I definitely want to get are: fog lights, quickshifter, cruise control, sunroof, chrome shift knob, and scion floor mats. Debating cold air intake, and rear bumper applique.

    I find the LED lights to be a cool gimmick but not at all worth the price. Subwoofer, also cool, but again not worth the asking price. Alloy wheels are tempting but I don't want to look like a racer.

    Thanks.
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    micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I wonder if Toyota is willing to stand by the 10hp increase claim? That's a lot. Many manufacturers (Hyundai in general, either or Ford or Chevy with their Mustang or Camaro - I forget which, and most recently Mazda on its RX8) have all gotten in trouble for overstating horsepower.
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    hiptobesquare - How much is the cold air intake? I think it will be worth it, a cold air intake is usually the basis for any other modifications you wanted to make, it's basic and relatively effective.

    micweb - The 10 horsepower claim is probably at the flyweel, and doesn't account for drivetrain loss. So, with the CAI, the xB makes 115hp, but some percentage less than that actually gets to the wheels. It is probably good for 5-7 wheel horsepower.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I have done a lot of reading about the acessories and nowhere does Toyota make a 10 hp claim for the CAI. The only number they offer is a 2 hp increase for the muffler.

    HIPTOBESQUARE: We thought that would be a good vanity plate but went with "A BOX"
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    moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Over 90% of all passenger vehicles are sold with automatic transmission. If you ever plan to trade in or sell the Xb you want to have the most appeal to other buyers.
    Xb manual is 30/34 mpg and automatic is 30/33 mpg. No real incentive to choose a manual there.
    If you like manual trans. or want to save some money upfront a manual transmission is a good idea.

    Question. When you say you want cruise and sunroof are you thinking about aftermarket? Scion is not offering cruise control or sunroof from everything I've read.
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    moparbad,

    Yes, when I say sunroof and cruise, I mean aftermarket. Toyota can install the sunroof right there at the dealership for a hefty $1495, but they cannot do cruise. For that I would have to go outside.

    And thanks for the info on manual vs. automatic. I am still going to go with manual, though. I noticed a non-trivial acceleration difference on the manual (I test drove both) and I like the additional control you get. Not to mention it's $800 cheaper.
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    Muffin_man,

    On the website, they are asking $335 for the Cold Air Induction System, not including installation costs. I have also heard the 10 hp increase number, but I'm not sure if that's accurate, so above all I just want to know if I would be able to tell a difference, regardless of the particular number.

    Also, will the Cold Air system increase engine noise?
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    hiptobesquare,

    Who makes the Cold Air Induction system? TRD? I found an AEM Intake (very reputable) for the xB, elsewhere on the internet for $278, not including install. And I'm sure that lower prices can be found. I would definitely try to bargain with them on the price, or at least get install thrown in.

    The intake will increase engine noise, but probably not too much. I do think you would be able to feel the difference with and without it.
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    muffin_man,

    the Cold Air system being sold on scion.com as an option with the car, is AEM. It's probably the same one you mentioned.

    And a question about the TRD quickshifter: Do you think it will increase noise? One of my co-workers bought an aftermarket quickshifter for his Subaru Impreza WRX but he ended up taking it off because it didn't shield transmission/engine noise as well as his stock shifter.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    If you have (and I quote) "...have never driven manual before but I am going to get a manual xB."

    Why are you in need of replacing the shifter?
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    With a quickshifter, the throws are shorter so I could switch gears faster. I imagine this is a plus regardless of whether or not one has driven manual before.
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    hiptobesquare - well, if it is the AEM, you can definitely get a better price elsewhere, even though it will probably be easier just to finance the whole thing. Definitely bargain for it.

    I don't know if the short shifter would increase the noise level, I've never heard of that. I've never noticed any extra noise with any short shifters I've used.

    Aw heck, you better go for the supercharger! How much do they want for it?
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Do you find the need to change gears a fraction of a second faster?
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    muffin_man,

    If the quickshifter doesn't increase noise and I can still put the cool (or chrome) gray shiftknob on it, I will most likely go for it.

    As for the CAI, I'm still torn. I may just wait a bit before getting it.

    The dealer told me the supercharger is going for about $4000.

    scootertrash,

    YES.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    If you put on a supercharger, you can forget your factory warranty.
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    hiptobesquare - go for the short shifter! I was looking at the scion.com website last night, and I noticed that the prices for accessories do not appear to be fixed, you can and should bargain for them. I wouldn't pay more than $250 for the CAI, including install. But either way, you can get it later, and then you'll really be able to tell the difference - not that it's going to be huge anyway, but fun.

    scootertrash - the factory supercharger will not violate the factory warranty, and short shift kits often imprive shifting feel, it's not only the speed of the shifts.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    What "factory" supercharger?
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    Now I'm torn on the Scion xB...All this week I wanted to buy one, but I've been persuaded by rational people to wait a month or two to make sure this isn't an impluse buy...and to make sure that I won't get sick of the styling within that time frame.
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    hiptobesquarehiptobesquare Member Posts: 12
    What do you guys think of this quote:

    "The young buyers don't have money and the not-young buyers with money usually don't like weird. The Pontiac Aztec was an example of such a failure, and Toyota's new boxlike Scion model fits here. A weird-looking vehicle, no power (105hp) and no all-wheel-drive. The bragging of early success will soon sputter out."

    From the following article:
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/fo/20031009/bs- - _fo/e996891276076ef60891e956f0d2d775
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    bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    The Xb is unique (yes even strange), and is underpowered compared to the average competition especially with an automatic. I also think that its long term success will be made only if the car is popular with the 35-50 year old buyers. The under 35 buyers will only like it for a short time and then will be ready to move on to something else if they ever like it. The practical older buyers may like its utility and value enough to make it a success.
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    muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    scootertrash - they are going to have a factory supercharger option, if they don't already.

    hiptobesquare - I think that advice goes for the purchase of any new car.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I'm really surprised you're getting cold feet.
    I never saw that coming.
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    benevolence6gcbenevolence6gc Member Posts: 19
    My mom just received a 50 dollar card to use toward any accessory for the scion xb, that came out of nowhere. She's not sure what she wants to get yet but is thinking of putting it toward the CAI, Im thinking of getting her a TRD short shifter for christmas, they are relatively cheap on ebay atm.
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    tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    The bragging of early success will soon sputter out.

    This person must be able to predict the future.

    I recalled that Honda Civic and Mitsubishi Lancer are popular cars among young buyers.

    The xB's pricing is competitive with those cars.
    It's advantage includes: non-conventioanl styling, great utility, good mpg, and Toyota reliability.

    One thing that the xB lacks is the HP. I bet the next generation of xB will have the HP increased if most young buyers demand that.

    In short, it's too early to write off the xB's protential success.
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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    How do you plan on using a Scion gift card in a purchase from someone on e-Bay?
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    benevolence6gcbenevolence6gc Member Posts: 19
    sorry I meant that as a seperate purchase.
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    mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    <hiptobesquare>The options I definitely want to get are: fog lights, quickshifter, cruise control, sunroof, chrome shift knob, and scion floor mats. Debating cold air intake, and rear bumper applique.</hiptobesquare>

    Fog lights -- nice to have, and makes car look better.
    Cruise control -- what for? I used CC on my Camry maybe twice for three years, including trips from San Diego to San Francisco twice a month. CC only helps if you drive 60 mph in the right lane along with trucks. Anyway, you wanted more control with manual gearbox. CC is less control.
    Chrome shift knob -- how many horspowers does this add?
    Scion floor mats -- I would buy in the car store, if I could get ones that fit. Should be cheaper.
    Debating cold air intake -- I would not pay more than $20 for this, and only for cool looking cromed or painted intake. Maybe it is really "Cool" Air Intake, not cold?
    Rear bumper applique -- If you are going to move around your bike, this would help from scratches, surely. But for the money they ask???

    <hiptobesquare>With a quickshifter, the throws are shorter so I could switch gears faster. I imagine this is a plus regardless of whether or not one has driven manual before.</hiptobesquare>

    Actually, normal shifter may be more precise because of the _longer_ throws. It is easier to find a proper gate, and needed force is lower (the rule of the lever). Also, another inch of travel will not give you much unless you are Tommy Makinen. Especially considering your hardware: you are not running Evo or STi.

    <hiptobesquare> The dealer told me the supercharger is going for about $4000.</hiptobesquare>

    Why would not you just buy Matrix XRS?

    <hiptobesquare>What do you guys think of this quote: ... </hiptobesquare>

    Well, a lot of it is true, but the article is directed to carmakers, not to consumers. Article assumes that consumers are either weirdo-lovers with empty pockets, or middle-aged people looking to buy yet another boring family sedan. Which is a lot true. I would not like to be one or another, I would prefer to judge by my own, I hate stereotypes. And I like xB not because it is cool and trendy, but because it is so functional, like a real car should be.

    I do not care what other people think unless they make decisions to produce or to not produce a certain car. Certainly, Aztek parents went crazy, but I can say the same about the whole current Pontiac line. Contrary, Aurora or Intrigue were cool, but grandpas did not get that coolness, and middle-aged bored accountants preferred to get Camry or Accord instead of Intrigue with Magnasteer and Shortstar. And nobody educated them. This is a shame that Olds died having at least two world-class cars. Now some hotshot can have his Grand Prix (aka Intrigue) with archaic 3800 pushrod, thinking that his car is sooo cooler than daddy's Olds with 3.5L 32-valve DOHC Shortstar with "limp home" mode. Dream on.

    The article also tells that american customers (those who have enough money to buy new cars) are dull boring men and women who cannot tell sh... I mean, Intrigue from Cutless 98. Which, sadly, seems to be true.
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