Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options

Scion xB - Hip to be square

1235725

Comments

  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    i think the xB has a bulldog kind of quality--it's so ugly it's appealing. i have a 2002 325ci and love that car for what it is.

    however, living in LA, i put so many miles on my car--on the order of 30,000+ miles/year. with the cost of BMW maintenance, i am looking at another car to spread out the mileage. at around 44,000 miles i had the first maintenance bill outside of the included window, which cost about $1400 for front rotors, front pads, rear pads, the oil change, and two new rear tires.

    on top of that, i am a musician on the side, so i have to bring around a lot of gear. it all fits in the BMW, but you can imagine what loading stuff in and out of a coupe can do to the upholstery and interior.

    the xB looks like the perfect vehicle, and i checked out one at the dealer yesterday. it's not fast, and it doesn't handle like a BMW, but i'd be happy putting 30,000 miles a year on this car, knowing it would need an oil change, new tires every now and again, and not much more than that. plus, with the price of gas skyrocketing again, you gotta love 30 mpg for a thing that runs on regular unleaded. i'm getting sick of paying $35 to fill up my BMW almost twice a week these days.

    for what it is, the xB makes a lot of sense.

    john
  • Options
    tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    I don't like my '94 Acura Legend GS's gas mileage (20 mpg) either. It's a great car for highway driving: very fast and stable. But I have to stop at gas pump more often than I like. A smaller XB for commute, store stuff from Home Depot/Lowes, and trips to local stores on weekends make sense for me. For now, I just have to wait utill I get a chance to test drive it.

    Please share your driving experience, either good or bad. Thanks!
  • Options
    purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    Get a VW Jetta TDI Wagon, 50 mpg...
  • Options
    phil_landanphil_landan Member Posts: 8
    #1 reason not to get the Jetta:
        >$20,000 base price
    #2 reason not to get the Jetta:
        -poor Consumer Reports evaluation
    #3 reason not to get the Jetta:
        -Audi/Volkswagen have some of the worst warranty and lemon law settlements that I have ever witnessed:
          An anoymous friend of mine works for that corporation in a position that has given him/her exposure to some of the many unfortunate customers who have tried to have satisfaction for large repair claims [that should be covered under warranty] or lemons. Three people that I know have been unlucky enought to recieve lemons from Audi/Volkswagen (Jetta, A4, Passat), and were forced to sue to get anything from the corporation...and after lawyers are paid have nothing but a car that doesn't work and an evening at taco bell! I know that there aren't many lemons that make it to dealers anymore...but if you get one, don't you want to rest assured that the manufacturer will give you another car?!

    Don't misunderstand, I like the Audis and VWs...but I will only buy them after the new car warranty is finished and the manufacturer is out of the equation.
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    hey purduealum91...

    it's not like i'm against VW's, but the bottom line is that i want a second car (a daily driver) that satisfies these requirements:

    1. cheaply priced

    2. affordable to maintain/excellent reliability record

    3. great gas mileage

    4. doesn't require premium fuel

    5. has lots of cargo volume for guitars, amps, drums, etc.

    the scion xB seems like a no-brainer. of course, i'll get my share of razzing at work for driving a box on wheels, but i'm willing to endure that. i can put a cover over the BMW and drive that one on weekends.

    the other thing that i'm considering for the sheer value is my boss who has offered to sell me his 1999 expedition with 49K miles on it for $10K. it ain't fuel efficient, but it is cheap, and i could haul around lots of stuff.
  • Options
    tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    I have a modest budget for buying my next car (to replace my aging '89 Accord with 220K miles and counting). I only consider buying Honda and Toyota cars. I was thinking of buying a CR-V or Element, but each car's MSRP is over my budget, and the mpg numbers are too low...

    If there is an Accord Wagon, then I'll seriously consider it.
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    hey purduealum91...

    it's not like i'm against VW's, but the bottom line is that i want a second car (a daily driver) that satisfies these requirements:

    1. cheaply priced

    2. affordable to maintain/excellent reliability record

    3. great gas mileage

    4. doesn't require premium fuel

    5. has lots of cargo volume for guitars, amps, drums, etc.

    the scion xB seems like a no-brainer. of course, i'll get my share of razzing at work for driving a box on wheels, but i'm willing to endure that. i can put a cover over the BMW and drive that one on weekends.

    the other thing that i'm considering for the sheer value is my boss who has offered to sell me his 1999 expedition with 49K miles on it for $10K. it ain't fuel efficient, but it is cheap, and i could haul around lots of stuff.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just to clarify, lemons are almost always first-year vehicles. If you look up state laws:

    http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon2.html

    you'll see what I mean. The term lemon is over-used. If you have a 5 year old car that is full of problems, it's still not a lemon, it's just an unreliable car.

    -juice
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Another Toyota youthmobile that’s likely to score with the ‘not so young.’"

    link

    Steve, Host
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    i pick it up tomorrow, since i drove by myself to the dealership today. the buying experience was really no different from any other car-buying experience, except you don't haggle over the price. however, the rest of the pain-in-the-[non-permissible content removed] dealership experience applies, including, but not limited to, the dealership trying to throw extra things that you didn't ask for (auto armor, extended warranty, etc.), and claiming ignorance for not rolling the cost of license/tax/registration into the total amount you are financing.

    after all was said and done, i got the car on my terms. i pick up mine tomorrow--a dark blue thingy that should save me a boatload on fuel expenses and maintenance. i would have gotten silver, but i can't wait over a month for the thing. silver (they call it thundercloud metallic or something) is the hottest color, and you have to pre-order it if you want it.

    the salesperson was fine to deal with. it's the stuff afterward that was a royal pain in the behind.

    report on the car to come.
  • Options
    jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    You could buy the Scion xB. But may I suggest a Toyota Prius. No Options. It's a hybrid too. Come to think of it, you get some money from the IRS. starts at $19,995 not including destination. You could probably bargain hard and get the destination taken off and buy it for $19,995 or less. A Civic Hybrid would work too. Same with a used Prius. Or if you can stretch the bank, get the Ford Escape Hybrid. Hybrid cars, here come the people storming in to buy a hybrid!
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    the xB isn't a hybrid, and after a day of owning the car, i have to say that it's pretty cool. the depictions of people stopping you all the time to talk about the car are pretty accurate. some people love it, some people hate it. i even had one guy whose buddy bet him that my car was a G-series benz--and lost $100 in the process!

    it's bulldog-cute, but i love it. i'm sure that i'm going to get a lot of jibes and raised eyebrows on tuesday at work, but i think it's one of those cars that grows on you.

    so far, it looks like 30 mpg (if i extrapolate) with spirited driving. more to follow, but i love it already. it doesn't have a lot of horsepower, but it's quick enough around town, and that's fine by me, since i live in LA where it's hard to find an open stretch of road, anyway.
  • Options
    tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    Thanks for the suggestion.

    But I really need the cargo space to transport stuff from Home Depot/Lowes.

    My 2.0 5-speed stick Accord only has 98 HP and gets 30mpg for my daily commute to work, so I think XB is an excellent candicate to consider. (I bought my '89 Acoord DX with AC new in '89. The price paid then was about the same as the XB, so the XB is a good value for me as well.)
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    tcpip1:

    i think the xB is ideal for you. the amount of cargo space this thing has is just astounding. it drives really well, as well--it's surprisingly agile for a car that's shaped like it is and which has only 108 hp.

    i'm digging mine, with the exception that the blue color seems to be a magnet for bird droppings.
  • Options
    jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The Prius would work well too. Higher fuel economy too along with some pretty wacky features.
  • Options
    zen2003zen2003 Member Posts: 10
    on your new xb??
    I wrote before on our experience and I was wondering if you got the stick? auto? leather sport steering wheel,etc.,
    so far we have put 600 miles of very gentle(break-in) driving on our auto,camouflage xb with the leather steering wheel which I love,the 6CD,silver pedals.
    my girl drives it most days to work and she really likes it. I use it on weekends,to the car wash,leisure rides,etc... and it is already a ``family member.''
    We are leaving on a long driving trip (Texas and Grand Canyon on return trip to California) (I am also a part-time musician and part of the reason for the trip is to go in the studio with my writing partner--who is Texas based--and the XB swallows a lot of equipment) in one week and can hardly wait to hit the open road....
    we are anticipating a lot of questions/comments/stares,etc.,...since there are no scions outside of california...congrats on the xb purchase...and who cares about the razzing from others---I drove the xb a couple of times to work and at first there were the negative comments and the styling...lectures...until these same people saw it close-up---and then their opinions softened...slowly they began to inquire about pricing,then gas mileage...and after a few days they were making the ``it's not that bad'' type-comments...while others were completely taken by the xb and were thinking of buying one too...

    just my own two cents...please advise on the specs and enjoy....
  • Options
    chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    how well does the air conditioning cool on the xb I read in an article it was a bit inadequate

    also is the 108 hp engine adequate in an automatic xb?
  • Options
    zen2003zen2003 Member Posts: 10
    lately (for L.A.) it has been really hot...but I feel that the a/c is adequate...it feels like any other new car...
    if it's been sitting all day long in the sun--it will take a couple of minutes to cool---but then it cools really adequately.
    The only time I have spent time in the back seat was when we test drove the xb---and my girl was driving--I chose to ride in back to check out the space--I remember it was a very hot day and I remember that after a few minutes it was cool in back.
    As for the automatic/power issue,I really wanted a manual but since this is primarily--the wife's car--I settled for the auto. I think it is pretty zippy--although we have been gentle during the break-in period--but it moves --it is not slow.

    If you are used to V-8's and sports cars then ,of course,you may feel that you need more power but if you go into this not expecting to be blown away,then I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It only weighs 2400 lbs....
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    mine is the blue (which is a magnet for bird doo) in a manual and the basic features--which is hardly basic.

    i put on 110 miles in the last two days, so the car is definitely getting worked in. i'm being pretty gentle with it--no revving above 4000 RPM, with most of my shifts at around 3000 RPM. i've done a split of city/freeway driving, and last night i was in hollywood, so i got a lot of stares at the car! maybe it didn't hurt that i had a really hot girl in the passenger seat.

    i haven't put any gear in the xB yet, but it will swallow a lot of gear, and i'm really digging that. plus, the upholstery looks really durable, so i won't worry about ripping things up as it gets loaded in and taken out.

    i'm sure i'll get the comments from my coworkers on tuesday! i work as a bond trader, and our parking lot is basically a BMW/porsche/benz dealership. i have a BMW that i love, but the upkeep and maintenance are too high for the amount of driving i do (about 30,000+ miles/year), so the BMW is now my weekend leisure car.
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    the A/C is a little inadequate at first, but it does the job. the A/C in my BMW is much better, but then we're also talking a much smaller car, too. the xB is a major greenhouse with all the windows, and the tint on the rear windows makes a big difference, i imagine.

    i agree with chris777's comments. i live in LA, as well, and it helps to roll down the windows first so that when you kick it into recirculated-air mode that you have a lower temperature in the car.

    my car is a stick, and the power is adequate for getting around. it's not a rocket, nor was it meant to be, but that's fine with me. i don't feel the need to zip around in this car--i have the bimmer for that.
  • Options
    jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Your co-workers are going to be soo surprised when your little roomy box pulls up.
  • Options
    purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    How about a pic of your scion.. and the hot girl of course :)
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats. Get used to being stared at. A lot. :-)

    -juice
  • Options
    tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    I just noticed that Edmunds' TMV price for XB-auto is $27 lower than the MSRP ($14,480).

    That means some dealers do offer XB at prices lower than MSRP, right?
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's the way I'd interpret the TMV. But Scions are no haggle.... hmmm. Apparently one franchisee didn't get the memo?

    Steve, Host
  • Options
    tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    I just read the FAQ at the official Scion site on pricing. It says

    "You will also experience Scion's Pure Price method, which means:

    The Transaction price = Posted or Advertised Price. Price menus are clearly posted for all products and services."

    Although it is a no-haggle policy, the dealers seem to be able to advertise/post a price other than the MSRP, based on demand and supply.

    http://www.scion.com/about/about_faq.html
  • Options
    beer47beer47 Member Posts: 185
    We all have the Element for a comparison. How big is the xB compared to the Element? 80% of an Element? The same. It looks smaller to me. The HP is much less so I guess it has to be proportionaly somewhat smaller is size. How about it CA crew. Your estimations..........
  • Options
    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    is definitely smaller than Element, significantly. As soon as you walk up to the car you can see it. It is also 500+ pounds lighter - less power than Element is OK.

    I have noticed that in the Scion corporate advertising, the usual language about "dealer sets actual selling price" is sitll in there, so I guess some dealers may offer Scions under sticker (or over?).

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Still - the xB seats 5, and I bet payload is better than the Element's miserly 675lb rating.

    The Element may be bigger but I'm willing to be the xB has more payload capacity.

    -juice
  • Options
    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    The Xb is about the same size as the Mini.
    It's about 14 inches shorter than a Ford Focus
  • Options
    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    People used to say I had a Corvette to make up for my "shortcomings".
    What will they think if I buy a Xb?
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's not long, but it's tall. It doesn't lack space, not at all. Space efficiency is fantastic, IMO.

    xB will garner all sorts of reactions. Some will find it trendy, others dorky, others cool, others just strange. But it *will* attract attention.

    -juice
  • Options
    purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    How about having something that has a quarter tank left with 425 miles already accumulated :). VW TDI Golf!
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    purduealum91:

    yup, well, that's pretty amazing, but from all the reports i've read, the golf's reliability ain't so hot. the big selling point for the xB--besides the price and the features--is the fact that it's a toyota.

    that means i'll change the oil, put gas in it, and change the brake pads and tires every so often. other than that, it's pretty much maintenance-free.
  • Options
    moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Thinking about the Xb as nothing else has the features and price. Reviews about interior quality have been good for Xb also.

    Regarding the Golf TDI. I drive a lot of miles and have owned 2 Golf TDI, 1 Jetta TDI, a Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Honda Civic Si, 3 Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord and the list goes on.

    My VW's have exceeded the reliability of all the above but the Corolla. Very trouble free and higher quality interior, driving and fit and finish than most of the vehicles I've owned. My opinion is that the lousy VW dealer network gives VW's a much worse reputation than the vehicles deserve. Poor customer service and poorly trained mechanics.

    Toyota's are fantastic vehicles for component quality but not as fun as VW. Guess that's why I'm happy to own both VW and Toyota. And I'm thinking that an Xb is going to replace my wife's Corolla.
  • Options
    andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    i'm just going by what i read about VW reliability in consumer reports and a few other publications, as well as what my friends have told me. i haven't heard many problems about the powertrain, but most complaints i've heard are about the electrical systems--a problem that seems to be endemic to many german cars.

    the more i drive the xB, the more i like it. it's a car that makes sense for so much stuff around town, and the gas mileage is great. the car drives very easily, and i gotta imagine that it's going to have that legendary toyota reliability. it's small and easy to put into small spaces, yet the inside is cavernous.

    i've always loved the way that VW's handle. it's a german car thing, which is why i love my BMW, which has now become a weekend car.
  • Options
    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Well, Scion seems to be a case of "same pile, different foot"

    I'm shopping for one via internet only. Only about 50% of the dealers even responded at all.
    Of those, about half said they prefer to discuss the car in-person and won't answer any questions on-line.
    I have been quoted that the price of the 6CD is $395 (it is.) and $670 and $895.
    Somehow, they keep making errors in pricing and fees that strangely, are always in their favor.

    I contacted Scion about this.
    Despite their claims of a new way to buy cars, Scion finally answered that each dealer is free to set their own prices and policies.

    So much for a new, buyer friendly experience.
  • Options
    sanfrandansanfrandan Member Posts: 20
    The xB and Mini aren't really the same size. The xB is over a foot longer than the Mini.

    -----------------Mini ------ xB ---- Civic Sedan
    Length ----- 142.8 ------ 155.3 ----- 174.6
    Height ------ 55.4 ------- 64.6 ------ 56.7
    Width ------- 66.5 ------- 66.5 ------ 67.5

    I rode as a carpool passenger in an xB last week. The back seat was roomier than my Civic, and the seat was quite comfortable. The ride was a bit harsh for a new car, but that's not a surprise given the short wheelbase. I wish they'd had these in '02, when I bought my Civic....

    - SanFranDan
  • Options
    tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    It's a no-haggle policy, but dealers can advertise/post their own pricing based on supply and demand. So, comparison shopping is still required to get a good deal.

    It's odd that those Scion dealers did not respond to your on-line queries. I thought there was a training course for dealers to take care of the Gen-Y (Internet savvy) buyers.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That'll kill their demographic dreams, if they ignore internet buyers, that is.

    I bet the invoice on the CD option is $395, the other prices may include installation. The dealer has to charge you for labor, if it's not already installed.

    Even so, OEM stereo prices are absurd. I got a take-off WRX 6CD changer for my Forester, they run $140 or so now on E-bay, and any good stereo shop will charge about $75 for the install.

    -juice
  • Options
    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Actually the prices already include installation since the car is shipped without any radio at all.
    So their prices of $670 and $895 are just rip-off attempts.

    I expected the dealers to suck and was not disappointed. I e-mailed 6 and have only had a decent, interactive response from one.

    I guess I was let down that Scion Co.'s response was, in summary, "whatever".
  • Options
    a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    I think the #1 weak link in Toyota's system is that they are infamous for having hostile dealers. Saturn has proven that it's possible to eliminate that problem (and stay afloat even if your cars are mediocre), so I don't understand why Toyota doesn't do it. They should do a study on the number of lost sales due to people walking off the lot after an unpleasant dealer experience. I bet the numbers are staggering.

    -Andrew L
  • Options
    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Here's another one I discovered--
    They are not Titled or Registered as a Scion.
    Your ownership papers will say it's a Toyota.

    Between the crappy, dishonest dealers, Scion's steadfast defense of the dealer's games and that cars are titled as Toyotas- I think the whole Scion marketing hype is a bunch of BS.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Strange...Lexus models don't say "Toyota".

    -juice
  • Options
    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    On the paperwork it says
    Make: Toyota
    Model: Scion

    It's strange that the car does not say Toyota anywhere on it yet that's what it's registered as.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Interesting distinctions being made. Both Scion and Lexus are marques of Toyota.

    Steve, Host
  • Options
    steveb84steveb84 Member Posts: 187
    Dealerships, or DMV ?

    If DMV, it could be that the state that doesn't have it right.
  • Options
    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    A Lexus is registered as a Lexus.

    A Scion is registered as a Toyota.

    The manufacturer code imbedded in the VIN indicates that the make is "Toyota", not "Scion".
  • Options
    mikusmikus Member Posts: 109
    Does Lincoln VIN say Lincoln or Ford? Who cares? Lexus is just rebadged Toyota as well.
  • Options
    benevolence6gcbenevolence6gc Member Posts: 19
    When my mom was looking for info and help on the xb she found the scion people at toyota quite informative and helpful. And even when I went to the "negotions" it was all a breeze, everything straight forward no pressure, they show what they have to offer you say yes or no and you move on, no sleazy tactics.
Sign In or Register to comment.