Mazda3

bluong1

Uhhh: please stop trying to fool the sensors before you become a snow man. Thanks for trying though. ;-)

Someone here told one needs to fool it about 20 times before the CEL can turn off. So please do not experiment with it, we all want you to be alive.

bluong1

Your car is certainly not isolated. I have heard few more reports. Here is a relevant post from another board:

It has been 2 weeks now since my dealer took my car back into the shop. After many false promises of returned calls, etc from mazda canada i finally got to speak to someone today that had what I think was the answer for me.

Appears that there is an issue with the crash sensors in the mazda 3's that has taken mazda off guard in terms of replacement parts. they are trying to round up as many parts as they can, but they said they need to build these parts due to the increased demand and then ship them to the dealers.

stevefl

One of my local Mazda dealers adds wheel locks to every new car and tacks $30 on to their MSRP. None of the other dealers bother with the locks. I consider wheel locks more of a nuisance than an asset. Wheel thieves only laugh at them. Does anyone want to put in a kind word for wheel locks? I'm willing to learn.

maxamillion1

But we didn't pay extra for them. I have always made the dealer throw them in.

Definately not worth $30.

pzev

I had brought this up a few months back. When someone confirmed that all Mazda3's in Canada and the US would have the fancy "intelligent" airbag set up I had asked about the reliability of such systems. I believe someone had mentioned that Ford uses this set up in many of their cars and it's not an issue.

It sounds like to me that it is an issue though. And just because it works in one car doesn't guarantee it works on another. Two completely different cars. Also it may not even be the same set up. Mazda may be using a different company/supplier out of Japan where as the ones used in Volvos, Fords, Jaguars, etc. could be a completely different company/supplier.

This had concerned me because some other cars have issues with the set up as well. Hyundai added a similar system in the 2004 Elantra and they had a quick recall right out of the gate relating to the system. Fortunately they caught it before too many were sold.

This is a text book example of why crash tests are important. If I'm not mistaken, the Elantra in 2 out of 3 crash tests had the airbags deploy late. They definetly need to crash test the 2004 Elantra to see if the new sensors work better. Also an early-built Mazda3 needs to be tested to see if the airbags deploy as they should as well.

I have read a few instances where Protege owners said in a side impact crash that their side airbags never deployed. They thought the impact was severe enough that they should have deployed, but didn't. Airbags are something some of us never are able to test, but it's something you definetly want to work when you do need it.

pzev

I've always wondered this as well. Do they do any good? Do they deter a thief from stealing your wheels or are they a joke and easy to get by for a thief? Are wheel locks worth the trouble?

pzev

Here is a video of the Elantra to illustrate my point.

http://www.progressive.com/video/Elantra.mpg

everfeb

guskim....I WAS going to Winnipeg to have a block heater installed and clear the codes to get that "darn" CEL shut off and out my sight. My dealer has NOT received software correction and doesn't seem to know anything about it. Says mine is only CEL on of cars his dealership sold. From another forum..the new software won't be available until April. Although from the above post by bluong quoting MARPMM it could be sooner as it sounds like upgrade 29.1 is what we with PO128 reading are waiting for. I did set out for Winnipeg (4 hours one way under normal road conditions) this AM but light snow and howling winds made for almost blizzard conditions (once I got out of town) with snow packed slippery roads where you couldn't see the cente line of a lane per car hwy. so I turned around and came home. Discretion better part of valour etc. Apparently Winnipeg area is experiencing the same conditions. So I have to reschedule. Maybe if I wait long enough they'll have the new software. I must say these 17" OEM tires do not handle well at all on snow packed roads (does anything??). I didn't feel like I was driving..more like guiding THE3 as it slipped down the Hwy. My Acura 3.2TL with Traction Control handles much much better in these conditions than THE3. Think Mazda missed the boat not putting TC for Canada on this new car. Winter tires for sure next year.

bluong1..you are right..twice is enough. Thanks for posting the info from marpmm. Hope he is right. Two mileage checks: 10.718 L / 100 KM (21.95 miles/US gallon) and 11.731L/100KM (20.05 m/USgal.) 2.3 auto. Tests conducted by filling tank to brim before starting and after finishing so pretty accurate. Not real good mlg. but real cold here. I did as you suggested regarding cooking excess carbon but did this during my second mileage check so impossible yet to determine any results. Now on my 3rd check so will see if it makes any difference. Thanks for the help.
everfeb

nyquist688

Hi everyone,

   I know this is kind of difficult, but I was wandering if anyone can show me how to drive a car with a manual tranny, because I really want to purchase a car with a manual instead of a auto, b/c it cost more and is less fuel economy. I don't know any friends or family member that know how to drie a car which a manual transmission.

Thank,
Cris

petpad

email me for 4 rinse'n pic pics...

bluong1

Woahh Billy, slow down, a lot of speculations in your post about the airbag system.

First we don't know if there is anything common between Ford/Mazda/Huyndai system, let alone the supplier.

Second, the way I understand it, it seems like the front crash sensor (it's commonly an accelerator sensor that costs a couple of bucks) is the cause of the issue. We don't know if it's a manufacturing problem or else.

This sensor has nothing to do with the weight/seat sensor on the driver/passenger sides and the airbag control module.

The fact that the Elantra airbag deploys late may be just because the sensor is not mounted at the appropriate place.

mbennett674

Tough to explain -easy to drive.

Basically the clutch will engage/disengage gears, and the shifter selects the gear.

1) Press the clutch.
2) Put car in 1st gear.
3) Slowly release clutch until you start to "feel" it grab.
4) Apply some gas and continue to release clutch
5) As engine tops out on RPM, Press clutch and shift into 2nd (much easier to shift gears when already moving).
6) When you brake - don't forget to push down the clutch - the clutch is basically neutral. If you don't do this you will stall the car.

At first you will be really jerky - but you will get the hang of it and smooth out your driving with practice....when you ask us how to heel/toe, then we'll know you got it

Good luck

1davao

I saw some books on how to drive a manual car in the public library. They may have videos too.
I think the best place to learn is in the parking lot at the mall or school early Sunday morning when nobody's there. Of course somebody has to lend you their car and drive you there. Stay safe.

1davao

creakid1

I used to teach driving, although autos only, but that was b/c I'm good at teaching driving anyway.

Always remember: If you don't know what to do next, just press the clutch FIRST before you think! It'll bail you out every time, even in extreme situations.

Later in life, you will practice whether or not to stay in neutral(or clutch down), leaving in gear or even down shifting for coasting, deceleration or acceleration.

By pressing the clutch down continuously while in gear can wear the clutch excessively, such as when waiting at the stop light.

Don't lug the engine. After the car slowed down & you need the engine power again, always remember to down shift(while doing so, be sure to add more gas even BEFORE you move the lever into the gear to protect the gears). Be sure to remember pressing the clutch or even shifting into neutral when braking/slowing down prior to reaching the idle rpm. At least for beginners, press BOTH the brakes & clutch the same time during panic stop.

When crawling as slow as a turtle such as when backing up, don't press the clutch half way & use the brakes the same time. If the car is still too fast, then press the clutch all the way down first before you apply the brakes.

It is normal to have a sweating back in the beginning, so put some towels on the seat back. ;-)

pzev

"First we don't know if there is anything common between Ford/Mazda/Huyndai system, let alone the supplier."

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Hyundai and Mazda were probably using the same supplier. Since Hyundai has high percentages of Korean parts I would suspect they use a different supplier, but I don't know.

Also the 2001 Elantra doesn't have the "intelligent" system like the 2004 has I think so it's kind of irrelevant, but it shows airbags can be a potential reliability problem as well. As I said some Protege owners claimed the side airbags didn't deploy when they should have.

My point is airbags aren't tested out as often as other parts of the car by everyday people so when the time comes for them to do their jobs it's very possible you won't know something is wrong until it's too late. The fact the weight sensors in the passenger seat seem to be messed up in some cars doesn't give me a lot of faith in the rest of the system.

I think airbags were originally made to deploy at such high force because they were trying to protect the morons who refuse to use seatbealts. Now they're trying to let sensors decide how much the person weighs, if they're using their seatbelts, how they're positioned in the seat, etc. and to me this could open up a bunch of new problems.

I guess you could say I'm not too fond of these systems and don't really trust them yet. Whether my speculations/concerns hold any water, that I don't know.

mazda6s

You aren't going to learn it from a book. Would you try to learn to ride a bike from a book? You just have to get out there and learn it. Find a patient friend with a lot of experience, and an empty parking lot.

xeider

A book doesn't hurt to understand how it works, but nothing beats actually driving a MT to learn.

I have a few friends who learned how to drive a MT the hard way. They were handed the keys, and told to just drive. Within an hour or less, they could drive, shift and not stall from a dead stop.

Better yet find a patient friend with a MT vehicle.

I remeber before I could drive, sitting in my parents cars, working the clutch and shifting with the engine off. It helped me get the motion down and feel comfortable for when I got my license and learned to drive the stick.

My dad thought it was very important for me to learn to drive a MT as when he was younger, he had a potentially deadly accident, and if one of his sister hadn't know how to drive a stick, he probably would have died. The only car at the his house at the time was a stick. His mom (my grandmother) didn't know how to drive a car, and his dad (my grandfather) was off at work. Luckily they were able to get my dad to the hospital in time. While it may not be as likely a situation now, its none the less a good idea to know how to drive a MT.

mazda6s

Maybe a quick one-on-one tutorial on how a MT drivetrain works, like "the engine crankshaft is always spinning, and the clutch connects the crankshaft to the transmission ...". A little sketch of the drivetrain might help too.

steb

I've been following this discussion with interest as I've been driving a Manual transmission so long I forget what it was like to learn. I learned with a dirt bike at 13 and a Tow Truck at 17.

Anyways, I was wondering about more advanced manual use. For example, downshifting, which I use commonly when exiting a freeway. And ensuring that you keep the motor in the "power-band" when scooting around town.

My wife drives the 5 speed fine but I was thinking of instructing her in some of these finer points (carefully, if you know what I mean). Instructed your partner on driving tends to be hard on relationships. But, what other techniques should I be thinking of.

Double Clutching? I sort of understand what this is but never really got the point. Anybody care to explain this and anything else that a "sporting 5 speed MZ3 Sport driver" ought to know?

ohsoribby

I actually just bought at MT mz3, but I dont know how to drive one .. is it a bad idea to learn on my new car or should i try and rent a car with MT?

mbennett674

My wife and I have almost split a few times as I try to teach her how to drive MT (and skiing for that matter). Maybe it's my technique.

Double Clutch is a good one - your clutch will last forever if you do that(among other things) consistently. It will also help smooth out the ride. By double clutching, you not bringing the syncro meshes into play, and if you double clutch well, you don't even need to use the clutch at all since the engine and tranny speeds are matched.

Ohsoribby - if you're gonna drop your transmission on the pavement, you might as well do it while under warranty in a new car

odysseus3

Interesting problem. You aren't going to find a rental car with a manual, so you are likely stuck learning on your new car. Other people on the board have made good suggestions (go to a parking lot). I would start by trying to get a feel for the clutch engagement point. Try getting the car rolling without using the gas. Once you get a feel for the engagement point, you will be less likely to dump/ride your clutch when doing faster starts.

odysseus3

What exactly is double clutching? You can shift without the clutch by rev matching, but I'm assuming there's more to double clutching than that.

mazda6s

You should find a friend with a MT car and practice on theirs!

stevefl

My story: I have a friend at work who used to be a driving instructor. One day he asked to borrow my pickup truck to move some furniture. I agreed and brought in my truck to work. He looked at it and said, "I can't drive it. You have manual transmission!" It seems he only knew how to drive an automatic.
Duh-h-h! Eventually he got his girlfriend to drive for him.

Moral: learn how to drive a manual. You never know.

Steb: Double clutching is an obsolete technique. It goes back to the days before all MT's had synchromesh. To downshift without clashing the gears, you would depress the clutch once, shift into neutral, and blip the gas pedal. This increased the engine rpm. Then you would depress the clutch a second time, downshift, and blip the gas a second time to speed up the tranny. Then release the clutch. Do these operations very quickly. Nowadays synchromesh makes double clutching unnecessary. Do it only to show off.

mbennett674

Double Clutch is essentially the same as rev matching, but you hit the clutch when you go into neutral (1st clutch), then rev match, hit the clutch (2nd clutch), and shift. It's safer than rev matching because if you don't hit the revs right, the syncros/clutch will save you, but if you rev match correctly - the clutch won't be doing anything.

bluong1

when you downshift do this

1- press the clutch (left feet), put in neutral
2- rev the engine (right feet) then downshift
3- release the clutch (left feet)

Normal downshift you don't need to rev the engine in step 2.

Heel-and-toe is almost the same, except you brake in the same time the whole process.

The advantage is you can release the clutch quicker and the car won't jerk.

This is specially useful when you downshift and slow down just around the corner. You can keep you engine RPM high inside the corner (at lower gear) but don't want to slow down too much before entering it.

1davao

Here's a close-up view of clutch, brakes, stickshift, heel toe of cars racing from Nissan 350 edmunds site. msg# 1509.

http://auto.joins.com/upboard/pds/pdst/BestMotoring_350Z_TsukubaB- attle.asf

1davao

mbennett674

I actually hop off the clutch as I rev....not sure if this is right, just how I do it. I don't even think about it anymore.

Heel toe has always been a problem for me - the pedal placement is never right for me so I always have to roll my right foot onto the gas (not using my heel, but the outside of my foot). this motion usually results in me hitting the brake harder than I want....

petpad

Here are the first 4 pics, thanks to Bruno for hosting them. Note the salt on the first one...price to pay for living in beautiful Ottawa [sic]...

more pics to come from stokkes...

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/album?.dir=/Mazda3+Co- mmunity&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f1.- pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/

bluong1

I lift after I downshift. I don't know if it's right, but I learn heel-and-toe first and that's how it should be done.

Also, when we look at action of the left feet: I don't see the point in releasing the clutch then press again while the shifter is in neutral. Why can't I just keep the clutch pressed during the whole process?

mbennett674

I thought it was putting additional wear on the clutch by revving while holding it down....

Whatever it is, I have 123,000 miles on my original clutch...

titanium3

If you don't adjust the throttle while the car is in neutral you are just playing, and wrecking your clutch. The whole reason they call it double clutching (or double de-clutching in Britain) is that you are trying to synchronise the gears to the engine and it is a 3 step process, clutch-gas-clutch or clutch-pause-clutch. Two clutch operations = double clutch. Here's a good explanation

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=3249

mbennett674

I was curious, so I dug this up on the net...

http://felixwong.com/openroad/double_clutch.html

titanium3

Drive your car how the manual says. If you learn it from the internet be prepared for a nice mechanics bill. If you want to learn double clutching go to racing school.

bluong1

In this video: 1davao Jan 21, 2004 5:02pm

the pilots keep the left feet pressed while the right feet gives a throttle "blip".

I don't think I do wrongly my heel-and-toe.

pat

If you learn it from the internet be prepared for a nice mechanics bill.

Excellent point.

It seems to me that using the written word to teach someone all of these things when the question was how to drive with a manual transmission is not a wise thing to do.

Nyquist, certainly read these suggestions and take them for what they can offer, but what you really NEED to do is get someone to teach you in person.

Since you don't know how to drive with a manual transmission, you don't need to be worrying about double-clutching and heel-and-toeing at this point.

Meanwhile, how about if we get back to talking about the Mazda3.

titanium3

If you don't re-engage the clutch i.e. lift. The transmission can't sync with the engine. You are only using the clutch once, so how does that = double clutching. My proxy settings wont let me see the video, but if the clutch is in (disengaged) your just spinning your engine with no load.

bluong1

The transmission can't sync with the engine

Not sure what part of the transmission are you talking about.

OK, I though more carefully about all that and here is my conclusion:

IMO, one only needs to lift the clutch only if the car doesn't have synchros. In that case you need the engine to turn the layshaft so that you can match the layshaft speed with the gear RPM before down-shifting. If the car has syncro then the above is NOT necessary.

I'm not interested in matching the layshaft with the gear. But I'm interested in matching layshaft (controlled by the car speed after down-shifting) with the engine speed right before lifting the (last) clutch.

IMO, double-clutch is used to shift for old-design car/truck where the synchros are not so good.

Double clutch costs time. So in racing, heel-and-toe are performed often with single clutching, albeit it might wear of the syncro.

Clutch wear should be the same regardless it's performed with single or double clutch, abeil the engine is rev at the right speed.

What do you think?

Bruno

guskim

I agree that traction control can make a huge difference in terms of accelerating. Snow tires also can make a big difference.

But I've had no problems managing the snow with my Pirelli WS 210's. They've been great on dry roads and snowy.
Mind you, I opted for the 16" steel rims for winter with covers.
You've got those Goodyear RS-A's, which are AWFUL for snow traction. The bad traction shouldn't reflect badly on the car's inherent abilities. But why Mazda chose these as OEM tires is a bit of a mystery to me. Bridgestone Turanza H or V's would have been a better choice, in my opinion.

fowler3

I was hoping somebody would step in and caution the new driver about these finer points. Much too early for him or her to be thinking about.

First, how can he get the car to a parking lot if he can't drive it? I'm assuming the salesman delivered it to his home. Now, he HAS TO find an MT driver to go with him to learn.

Learning to drive MT:

You really need to get the car to a big open area like a parking lot free of parked cars.

(1) Get behind the wheel (do not start the engine) and play with the shifter to get a feel for where the gears are. Run through them using the pattern on the shifter handle.

(2) Now try the clutch pedal, push it down and let out slowly. Practice letting out slowly. You won't feel the point where it actually takes hold until the engine is started.

(3) Put the shifter in neutral, a position between the gears where you don't feel the "gates".

(4) Start the engine and press the clutch in and let it out slowly. Feel for the point where it may be taking hold. Try it several times.

(5) Now, hold the clutch ALL-THE-WAY-DOWN and keep it there. Do not let up. With your hand on the shifter, put it in 1st gear and slowly let the clutch out. You will feel the clutch take hold, let it all the way OUT and tap the throttle lightly to get the car moving slowly.

(6) You do not want the car to take off suddenly.
You are getting a feel for how the clutch works. Be prepared to press the brake to stop the car and PUSH the clutch all the way down to put it in neutral again. Set the handbrake. Think about what you felt and what you did.

Now, try it again.

Each time you will "learn" a little more.

Take it slow, don't be in a hurry.

When you are confident you undertstand the clutch and 1st gear, add a little more throttle and try shifting from 1st gear to 2nd gear. PUSH THE CLUTCH DOWN and shift gears, let up on the clutch slowly and press the throttle.

What you are trying to learn is not how each of these three things works independently, BUT how to work them together simultaniously: The clutch, the gears, and the throttle. It will take a lot of time to become comfortable doing it. Don't give up, if confused, rest and think through it and then try it again.

fowler3

bluong1

I just received by email a $35 gift certificate if I take a test drive of the Mazda3. Of course I can't use it. Arrrggg. Oh well. ;-(

bluong1

Pat, please do me a favor and bear with me, it's my last off-topic post. I'm interested in knowing whereas I drive correctly or not.

I found an interesting article discussing about double-clutching vs single clutching in heel-and-toe dowshifting.

http://www.trillium-bmwclub.ca/TrilliumBMW/Site.nsf/Public/b16f77- - - - - - - - 392c609ef285256c8600818137

Here is the relevant part

Proponents of double-clutching claim that it is smoother and saves on synchronizer wear and tear, and that it might be useful to learn in case you ever try a racing school that has old race cars which don't have synchromesh transmissions. Proponents of single-clutching claim that modern synchros seem to last well enough even if they aren't babied, and that there isn't anything to be gained, only time to be lost, by double-clutching. Almost all of our instructors single-clutch, with a few exceptions (all of whom drive older cars, by the way).

It's confirmed what I wrote before: double clutching save the synchros wear but costs time. Both techniques have similar wear on clutch. They are both good in matching the engine crankshaft with the transmission input shaft (layshaft).

This is interesting, I never though about the synchronizer until now.

Bruno

titanium3

Saves time and you can zero clutch.

bluong1

no thanks. I can't have a decent car control without the third pedal.

lavaorange3

I've been driving MT for 31 years, and just about anyone can tell you that after the first few weeks of learning, it becomes second nature - you don't have to "think" about it at all - and you find that you are in total control of the vehicle... It makes driving a pleasure, and it's never a distraction. I recommend it for everyone!

xeider

bluong1

I got the $35 certificate offer as well via e-mail. Basically its something you can print out and bring into the Mazda dealer when you test drive that you attach the test drive slip to, along with their business card. It’s good for a $35 gift certificate to sharper image. Offer ends Feb. 29th. The e-mail I got just talks about the Mazda3, but at the bottom the fine print says its good if you test drive any new Mazda.

bluong1

Thanks. I know, but I have to take an airplane before I can get to the US dealer. Too bad that the certificate can't be transfered.

bluong1

how is the Ti-baby? Did she get fixed yet?

drumm01

Not sure if this has been discussed but.. How durable are 17 inch tires in the Mazda 3?