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That is good to know. Edmund's TMV says MSRP for that area. Was it a struggle to get that price?
Keep us posted on how you like your Passat.
http://info.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.cfm?id=15203
I personally find nothing especially offensive about this, but nothing seems to get a brand's crowd more up in arms than styling changes. The new Jetta has the Vortex board threatening mass suicide. Many people still haven't gotten over the current Accord, though I prefer it to its predecessor. No matter what you do at the styling studio, somebody will complain.....
I don't get that caught up in car design. I just felt that the Jetta & Passat were two of the best looking cars in a sea of ugly crap. With few exceptions the late 1990s and early 2000s have produced some of the ugliest cars in my 45 years of car buying. I think the domestics are coming back with reasonable designs in the Ford 500 & the MB E320 is not bad. I hope something comes along I like before my fleet starts dying.
appliance cars was a term born in the 80s, IIRC...
thank you Iaccoca
You're probably right. I was trying to list the vehicles I really liked the looks of and it is a short list. 1955-57 Chevy Nomad, early 1990s Lexus SC300/400, 1988-1998 Chevy PU/Suburbans. I like clean lines and most cars are cluttered. I think the new Ford Mustang and Five Hundred are going the right direction.
I am in the market for another new car and would love to go back to a tdi, since i owned a 2000 jetta tdi until about 1 year ago. If im going to shell out the money I expect the dvd nav and keyless start...i read on the passat it will have the keyless start option, but have not read anything on the dvd nav system?
Thanks so much
The good news is that you should be able to get the turbo 4 w/less options for around the same as the current. No word if the TDI will be available and when (or how much).
I cannot imagine buying a Passat gas that gets 22 mpg combined on Premium. It will be interesting to see if they bring out the 4motion with TDI. It should be a big hit in the snow states.
Since I only fill up every 500 miles "ain't that cool" check you tire pressure regualary for best fuel millage!
I'm getting a little wind noise on the driver's side, window area.
I heard the Passat's cabin was well isolated from outside noise and wind. Anyone else getting this problem? Is this because of the GL model (intro vs. others with more standard options).
Thanks.
GL had several rattles from the dash area and pillar
area. Wind noise was somewhat pronounced above 80mph.
The new car has an interminttent rattle in the drivers door and I do hear wind noise, more so than my 2002. In the 2002, as the car aged, it developed more rattles. My 2002 had the following problems--all covered under warranty:
daylight running lights burnt out twice
brake rotors warped out at about 17000 miles
oil leak
radio stopped working and was replaced
dash bubbled and was replaced
On balance, the car was fun to drive. I guess I could have bought a battleship tight camry or accord, but there is something about the vw passat that I really like.
There was a slightly pronounced wind noise level. Your post helps me much. I will speak with the dealer to see if they missed something.
Thanks again.
But like you say, there's something about the Passat I like too. Probably many on this forum likes as well!
With all the horror stories you read on the VW's in general, it seems the TDI versions work pretty well. I know my Jetta did. And I hope this Passat keeps the same track record.
Oh, by the way..we were ready for the Accord too. Just couldn't pass that TDI Passat! Take care and good luck in your Passat TDI travels
If you want others to be able to email you, the thing to do is make your address public in your profile. That way registered, logged-in Forums members can obtain it, but no one else, including the spambots, can get to it.
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The $1,200 cost of the diesel versus the 1.8T is not an issue to me.
I drive about 18,000 miles per year about 60% city driving. I tend to hold on to vehicles as I've put 115K miles in the past 6 years on my '95 Dodge Spirit that just rolled 200K miles, last week. The car before that one I kept 8 years. I like tinkering with cars, but I know my limit, too.
So is 18,000 miles/year enough justification to get the TDI? If I didn't purchase a TDI, I wouldn't get a VW. But I'd purchase something that would get 22 mpg or so and would run on regular unleaded.
I understand that in order to keep the intake soot free that it'd need to get blown out on the freeway regularly. Thanks for your time.
Unlike my 83 300SD, the new VW diesels are computer controlled and much more prone to all kinds of problems. I drive about 30K miles a year, but I like my gasoline Japanese cars better than this Mercedes diesel. German cars require much more expensive maintenance, period. There are way too many rubber parts on this Mercedes that fall apart with age: engine and transmission rubber mounts, air cleaner rubber mounts, differential rubber mount, driveshaft flex disc, subframe mount bushings, guide rod bushings, rear axle CV boots, lower balljoints with plastic dust boots, hundreds of plastic clips all over the car holding things together. For some reason Germans do not like external screws so hidden plastic clips hold everything in place. And you must know exactly how to remove those parts with plastic clips, all you will break them. I suspect that VWs share this German design philosophy too.
You need to be telling us that when you have a Japanese car that is still running after 22 years of 30k miles per year. I doubt any of them would come close. I have seen a handful of Japanese cars that made 200k miles. Most are rusted away by 150k miles. 200k miles on a VW TDI or MB diesel is just getting broken in. I have better luck with Chevy's than Japanese cars. And I have bought at least 8 new ones over the years. At 100k miles Toyotas and Honda's are ready for the junkyard. Plus Japanese car parts are way more expensive than American parts. Not sure about German cars, as the last new VW Bug I bought was in 1967 to replace a very unreliable 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser.
Haven't you been told a million times never to exaggerate! ; ^ )
I have never had (nor anyone I know) a Honda or Toyota that did not go 200k miles with ease and still run well. Rust is not an issue on modern cars of any make - unless you regularly submerge your car in salt water and never wash it.
I like VW's. I had a 1980 Scirocco go 180k miles (though it was burning oil at that point). My Father has a 2000 Passat with 130,000 miles and no issues.
I am more interested in a car that lasts 15-20 years. It is pretty easy to go 200k miles on a 5-8 year old car. I don't see that many Japanese cars in nice shape that are 20 years old. Ours are 15 and still look good but neither has 90k miles on them. And the 1990 Lexus has 81k miles and never spent a night outside. We just painted the 1990 Mazda 626 for the second time. It only has 84k miles and is always parked outside. The paint just flakes off of them. I have had several GM vehicles that went many more years sitting in the sun without needing a paint job. My 7 year old Suburban has always been parked outside and the Indigo Blue paint looks like the day I bought it.
On rust there is a very prominent MN poster with a 2004 Prius II that said he is seeing rust on the under carriage of his car, less than a year old. Any place that uses salt on the roads, rust is an issue.
I would really like to get a Jetta or Passat Wagon TDI for our place in Hawaii. Rust was an issue with VW/Audi in the past. The 12 year warranty is a help to ease my mind with a car that close to the ocean.
It does have a very small oil leak (about a quart every 2-3,000 miles) at the rear main seal. I have not fixed the leak because it makes no sense to do all that work without replacing the clutch, but the original clutch is still fine.
I also had a 1990 Corolla wagon that looks fine as well - no rust. I sold it a few years ago, but it is still running around town with 170,000 miles on it.
Starting in the late 80's cars started getting a lot better with finishes and rustproofing. Yes you see a lot of rusted '75 Corollas, but that says nothing about newer cars. I think any car made by the mid nineties will be pretty impervious to rust unless it is abused.
My brother currently drives a 1994 G-20 with 230,000 miles. It is not 15 years old yet, but it still runs fine, and no rust either.
Don't know about the Prius - that seems odd. I do know that some steel alloys are designed to get a weathering coat of rust, and then they rust no further. Kinda like when copper turn green. I
1. To replace the A/C evaporator, it is necessary to remove the entire dash of the car. It costs at least $ 2000 for this repair,as it requires at least 18 hours of labor plus cost of parts. And evaporators do go bad in these cars.
2. Replacement of rear axles CV boots requires special tools and is very time consuming, and most places will not even attempt to do this. So you need to buy rebuilt axles for about $ 350 a piece plus installation labor, which can run the bill up to $ 1000, and a lot more for new axles from an MB dealer.
3. Lower balljoints dust boots fall part prematurely, necessitating replacement. Even though the parts are not that expensive, the labor to install them is - hundreds of dollars.
4. The wood dash trim on these cars delaminates with age. You cannot buy any aftermarket replacement for these 126 chassis cars and Mercedes dealers sell only a three piece matching set for your dashboard for a mere $ 950.
5. Dashes on these cars have a tendency to develop cracks. Replacement of the dash will cost upwards of $ 1000.
6. Rear windows on 80s model 126 chassis cars delaminate along the bottom corners and develop ugly stains as water get between glass layers. The cost of rear window glass from Mercedes? About $ 750 just for the part. You also need a $ 90 seal for it. So about $ 1000 to replace the rear window.
7. Without exceptions, the OEM Becker Mexico radio cassette players break prematurely, plus these radios have horrible AM reception.
8. Sunvisors with built-in illuminated mirrors fall apart on these cars from exposure to sun and age. The replacement cost? About $ 1,000 a pair from your friendly MB dealer. And I do not know of any aftermarket replacements. BTW, small clips that hold the sunvisors in place break frequently. The replacement cost: merely $ 16 a piece.
9. Plastic inner door handle retainers break easily, causing the handle to come loose. The replacement cost is about $ 30 a retainer. And you need one for each door.
10. OEM Behr radiators with plastic tanks are notorious for weak necks which can break off and ruin a completely good diesel engine in minutes.
11. Tach amplifiers fail frequently, causing the tachometer to quit working.
12. The climate control system temperature controller box made only by Bosch, which usually fails on older cars, retails for $ 1200 from your friendly MB dealer.
13. Door panels develop cracks from exposure to sun over the years. The replacement cost for new door panels: Over $ 600 a piece just for the part.
14. Auto tranmsission shifter bushings have tendency to fall apart with age, which can cause to car to shift itself into neutral and move inadvertently when parked.
15. The electric clock inside the instrument cluster typically stops working after so many years. It is integrated with the tachometer, so to replace the clock, you must buy the whole assembly. The cost of the part is about $ 450.
16. Speedometers on many of these cars like to quit around 120K miles.
17. Fuel gauge senders like to act erratic or quit after several years
18. Dash light dimmer rheostats go bad routinely on these cars.
19. The 5 cylinder turbodiesel engine requires valve adjustments every 15k miles.
I hope that after reading this you will understand my remark why I like Japanes vehicles better from maintenance and repair cost standpoint. Without any doubt, a Mercedes 300SD, when properly maintained, will outlive most Japanese cars by a wide margin, however, it will not be cheap to keep it in top shape. My advice to all those who contemplate buying a used MB diesel is: buy a one owner vehicle in best possible condition with all maintenance records and stay away from multiowner, cheap cars, as they will surely be a money pit. Typically, many people who buy these cars used will not maintain them properly and trash them, so they will become extremely expensive to maintain and repair.
BTW, concerning Japanese car longevity: our local Nissan dealer services two vehicles with over 600,000 miles each on the original engine and tranmission: a 4 cylinder Nissan pickup and a 4 cylinder Nissan Sentra. They both have a manual transmission.
For the most part, any car can last (almost) forever if WELL maintained, regardless of make.
If anything, you would have to worry less about the engine and more about the transmission and chassis components like control arms and bushings. Lastly, the interior quality over 20 years will be a factor, like sagging head liners, tears in seats, carpets worn thin, etc.
If anything, a TDI will have two advantages - first the fuel acts more like a lubricant than regular petrol. A TDI is always well lubed! Second, the interior quality in terms of materials may hold up better than say a Toyota. More focus (and money) is spend on interior materials. Honda has really stepped up to the plate on this front though.
So it's more about personal choice...it's your car, drive what you want.
That is an impressive list. I won't bore you with the repair and maintenance on my wife's 1990 LS400. I think what I see from your list the dealers are rip-off artists on parts and labor. I just recently found a great shop that works on Lexus. Up to this time my wife always had her service done by the dealership where she bought the car. The last time she had it in they gave her a list of items that needed repair. It came out to about $5,500. An example to repair the faulty fuel gauge it was $1200. I searched until I found this shop that specializes in Lexus. We had them do everything on the list. Not all the items were as Lexus indicated. The total bill was $1,100. That included parts and labor. He told us that Lexus usually doubles the price on parts from the factory MSRP. He is able to buy from Lexus at wholesale and charges MSRP for the parts.
The point is all high end cars are more expensive to maintain. Japanese cars are more expensive to maintain than their US made competitors.
I also know that cars are all going more miles without problems than they did 20 years ago.
PS
The Lexus needed a new power steering pump within a year of the warranty running out, charge $1,549.
As long as people are aware of the costs of ownership, there should be no problem. It's really a personal choice, and no choice is better than another simply because someone else disagrees. Life is too short to worry about what your neighbor pays for their water pump.
I've spent about $200 in repair parts on my '00 TDI which turned 100k miles recently. It's not nearing the junk yard. It's also tighter and has been less expensive to operate (repairs/maintenance) than my last three Toyotas. Nevermind my daughters '02 Toyota that has been the biggest heap I think I've ever owned.
You and moparbad have been constant contributors to this and the other TDI forum that I've been reading.
So, I'd appreciate you reading post 643-"Whether or not" and let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Is the leatherette just a fancy name for vinyl or vinyl with leather inserts?
From a fuel standpoint, you're probably going to burn about 250 less gallons. The cost of that will depend on geography. Might save you $300 a year on fuel. So if you're giving up something to get the Passat TDI (i'm not sure what unless you're shopping for a luxury car) it may not be worth it.
I think the Passat's are great cars and I'll probably move to one soon. Or not, so far my Jetta is alot of fun, super reliable, and cheap to operate. The Passat isn't any more comfy for the driver (i rarely if ever have any passengers) so beyond some new gizmos my Jetta still works just fine for me.
As for soot issues, hard acceleration will clean it out more so than highway driving. There's other ways around that soot getting there in the first place. I'm over 100k miles and mine has never needed cleaned, but I've taken precautions.