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Comments
Bad fuel?
Steve, Host
When I have full cargo if I don't do this, I have the impression my converter spins free.
I almost drove 40,000 Km with this Jeep and it gave me 100% satisfaction everywhere I was able to 'play' with it.
For now I live in Germany and plan to return with their much different trailers. Still, I'll be near the 5000 pound limit! I'm looking for anyone who has used this new liberty to tow the max load, especially a live shifting load.
My next choice is the Dodge Cummins 2500. I don't need this much truck, nor is gas mileage available. I think it can get up to 30mpg?! The price is twice as much as the Jeep and a bit large to travel in daily.
One more thing... manual transmissions and gear ratios were mentioned?? I MUST drive an automatic since my left leg in paralyzed. This might effect answers I get... :-(
I need help soon! My husband's new BMW caught on fire and burned to nothing why we were elsewhere on Christmas vacation. (I HATED that piece of expensive metal!) I must find a compromise from vehicle with things like GPS that he will enjoy too and that we can get good diesel mileage while we still live in Europe where it's much cheaper. Not a 10 cyl. diesel Volvo. LOL!
For now I live in Germany and plan to return with their much different trailers. Still, I'll be near the 5000 pound limit! I'm looking for anyone who has used this new liberty to tow the max load, especially a live shifting load.
My next choice is the Dodge Cummins 2500. I don't need this much truck (though it's a very good engine), nor is gas mileage info available for me to find. I think it can get up to 30mpg?! (does anyone know?) The price is twice as much as the Jeep and a bit large to travel in daily.
One more thing... manual transmissions and gear ratios were mentioned?? I MUST drive an automatic since my left leg in paralyzed. This might effect answers I get... :-(
I need help soon! My husband's new BMW caught on fire and burned to nothing why we were elsewhere on Christmas vacation. (I HATED that piece of expensive metal!) I must find a compromise from vehicle with things like GPS that he will enjoy too and that we can get good diesel mileage while we still live in Europe where it's much cheaper. The diesels here are just as quiet as a car, don't smell and get more than twice the milage of gas and even hybrids. It's also a dollar les a gallon! The US will come to reality eventualy...
Anyway, help/ advice is greatly appreciated.
TnX!
Regarding pulling a trailer weighing 5000 pounds, I can say that although the Liberty diesel has less HP than the 96 Cherokee, It has lots more torque - 400 kw compared to the 300 kw the 4L Cherokee had. My caravan plus extra load in the vehicle itself is probably close to 4000 pounds and I never felt uncomfortable. My Liberty also produces only 360 kw of torque. With the extra torque of the new Liberty I do not believe that it would be much more of a problem with 5000 pounds. After all, the tow rating of this vehicle exceeds 5000 pounds.
Eric
http://www.jeep.co.uk/jeep/cherokee_versions.aspx?ID=566,3,95
If you select the 'technical' index and later the 'economy' index, you come to the mileage values.
My 25,000 miles experience with this diesel is very close to these mileage values. Unfortunately what is advertised in the States seems too optimistic. When the fuel gauge chime rings, I can put 55 Liters for 550 KM in the summer and today I only drive 380 KM in harsh winter conditions.
This is far from the 'expected 500 miles' one can read here and there. If you do go beyond the chime, you no longer can use the fuel gauge and risk to run dry!
So I guess I'm confused about what type of mileage you are getting. Or maybe the chime rings very early in this vehicle.
The preliminary EPA mileage estimates for this vehicle in the states are 22-27mpg.
My bet is people get better than EPA. It seems there is bias at EPA against diesel, and the estimates are pretty easy to match or beat in real driving conditions.
PS
I like your bio.
I just was contacted by my dealer. The first CRD had arrived and I went to test drive it. Too late, it was sold last night.
My question is about several things the dealer said.
1. He claimed that the Daimler/Chrysler Partners program was not valid for the CRD, even though the partners website does not exclude it. They clearly spell out the restrictions there.
2. They said it was a limited run and meant there would be a shortage of vehicles.
While I would like to get this vehicle, I am not playing any of their reindeer games to get the car. What is all this crap they are talking about?
The vehicle is already surcharged for the diesel option, so what is this? One of those make the dealer rich vehicles by creating a niche product and allowing everyone to fight for them?
Any information or how-to-work this system would be appreciated. At worst case, I just wont be buying this car if it is all about their game.
Please don't think it's "all about their game". The factory committed to building 5000 units to test the market. They can respond with another 5000 if needed. We have had fairly clear info up front all along.
This dealer is known and has been prosecuted for "bait and switch" tactics. Funny how he had a full lot of gas versions and suggested he could get us in one that day.
Sorry, but this is really a game, no matter how upfront with the details they may be. I did not know these facts nor should I have to as a consumer. I want there product they should supply it. Period.
Supply and demand only works when the supplies are fully provided for. Limiting the supply creates an artificially higher price. Look at Enron and the west coast energy issue. They shutdown generation plants to create a shortage and therefore drive up the price of the product.
I don't play the game. I have a partnership agreement because of my companies purchases of Chrysler products. That should be honored. Anything less is just slimy. So yes, while dealerships can optimize their profits on the CRD they will lose in the long run. Whatever happened to treating the loyal customer right, versus playing a game.
Also, my support of their company is voluntary. When I take it elsewhere they are the loser. For what? $3000 profit instead of $1000 with the partnership agreement on that single vehicle versus the big picture of $10,000 on the 10 other vehicles my company purchases. Hmmmm. Kind of stupid when you figure it out. Loose $10,000 in business for a one time $3000.
It's only stupid if it's unique to Chrysler. I'm sure if you went and tried to buy a Mustang or Corvette, or a Prius or a hybrid Escape, on some sort of "program", you'd find the same thing. As long as there is a list of buyers willing to pay more for the vehicle, that is who will get them. Just like if I'm selling stuff on E-Bay and you've bought from me 10X; if you want item #11 you offer the best price.
To compare this availability issue with Enron is mistaken. There is no monopoly on small SUV's.
I'll NEVER forget about the "Market Adjustment" and I'll take my business and other's business elsewhere. Message to dealers, remember, being a Jeep dealer is not a monopoly next time you start the supply and demand rant.
I had already paid 380 Euros (~$500US) for the first service at 12,000 miles.
I just got my 24,000 miles appointment for 2nd service, and to my surprise this will cost 430 Euros (~$550US)[3 hours labour + all filters + transer case oil change].
Just for the sake of curiosity, I asked the dealership how much will the 3rd visit cost: 520 Euros (~$675US)[same as 2nd service + differentials oil change]. This is a 'big one'.
I've once read on Edmund's that the average maintenance cost for the 3.7 Liter engine was close to $150US around Detroit area. Will the diesel service be so much more expensive in the US and Canada? I'm glad I only took the 2 year guarantee, but not shure the 3rd service will be done on time!
Granted I may have to either order it or wait till the rush calms down, but I can wait.
Thanks for the information on the 5000 number. The original dealer was definitely trying to gouge for the maximum profit based on this. His loss of my business.
Is there any noticable hesitation from the glow plugs when starting in cold weather?
What about smoke on startup?
Check the Edmunds Maintenance Guide to see what the manufacturer recommends for your car.
Steve, Host
What you call 'fluff' I've seen done by rubbing a damp cloth near the lubricants filling orifices, not even opening and changing the gaskets. A lot of attention is given to the 'cosmetic aspect' of the vehicle. Last year I reported a whinning noise from the turbo at 2100rpm. The dealer only gave me five minutes to try to identify the cause. Finally the noise is still there, irritating but normal since the new demo vehicle had it as well. I'm just hoping something breaks near the turbo before the end of the guarantee so DC can fix it, unless they say it's normal wear. This is the only weak mechanical point I found on this truck, apart from being 'all electronic' and confidential.
It's a big contest here to sell the vehicle with the cheapest maintenance, so most of the manuals have very little in required maintenance. While that's likely good for the 1st owner (5 years/75k miles is average ownership length) it likely will reduce the long-term reliability of the vehicle. Not that most folks care. I've maintained my TDI (and Dodge diesels) very well because I plan to keep them very long time. I likely won't keep my Tahoe for a long time, and just maintain it according to the owners manual. In 38k miles, I've spent about $175 at the dealers on required maintenance, which basically adds up to 7 oil changes. I can't see the standard liberty having much required maintenance because the rental companies buy them in droves. They won't fleet a vehicle that costs much to maintain.
I was going to go take a look at one. A local dealer had an ad in the paper that they had one.
It was extremely quiet at idle. Better than my 2002 Jetta TDI. Jeep did some special things to make it quiet at idle. I noticed a lot of noise upon acceleration. Even touching the accelerator while parked generated the additional noise.
The ride was a typial "offroad" or "truck" ride. The product seemed kind of cheap on the interior. It was comparable to the standard Liberty, but I find looking at the rear seat supports and seeing bare metal something that could have been hidden.
The 4x4 selector/shifter was very wierd. It seemed to stick or did not want to shift easily. I am spoiled by push-button switches to select the 4x4 mode I want.
The vehicle definitely had a lot of torque. Almost too much for normal driving. Being rear wheel drive the rear tires "skipped" when starting hard on a right hand turn. Probably normal for rear-wheel drive, but I am used to front-wheel drive and torque-steer issues.
One final note. The dealerships are gouging. Even though the salesman assured me that all was fine with the partners program, the guy ordering the vehicles demanded $2,500 over MSRP for the vehicle I wanted to order. That would have made the vehicle $36K! A Jeep Liberty for $36K without taxes and licensing.
What a joke! I walked out after stating that only a fool would pay that for the vehicle, especially when compared to the grand cherokee. He felt that people would pay it. He said it was all about profit. It proves the axiom a fool is easily separated from his money. He kept using the 5,000 number to justify their tactics.
I contacted Chrysler customer service about this. I wanted them to know that "demand" for the vehicle would be impacted by this gouging. I wanted them to know that there is a demand for the CRD but not that it might be artificially reduced due to the dealer tactics of gouging.
I won't buy it for $36K. Put the diesel in the Cherokee and that price becomes reasonable. The Liberty just doesn't warrant that high of a price.
Does anyone else think this is a crazy?
Liberty Limited CRD
with 22G
Navigation
Skid Plate Group
Heated Seats
Navigation
Sunroof
Trailer Tow
Side Airbags
Trac Lok Axle
is MSRP $32,160
How the heck could it be $36K!
Again, I want to tell everyone that there are dealers willing to sell this vehicle below invoice.
Trivia Question- Which 1980 4WD SUV obtained 22 city 24 hwy rating?
Answer- 1980 IH Scout Diesel 4x4
I can personally state that the vehicle would obtain 30 mpg on hwy if driven conservatively on a long distance drive.
I agree. Glad to see that diesel buyers are not as foolish with their money as those buying the hybrids at and above MSRP.
When I did the Partnership pricing (Invoice - 1% + administrative fee), the pricing was about $29K.
So based on this dealer I would be paying $7K more.
The dealer is bragging about how much the "300" with the hemi is bringing in for them. Again, limited supply = huge dealer profit.
I still think people are crazy for paying a premium.
I was just in a Dodge/Jeep dealership in San Diego. They had 3 Vipers in the showroom. The dealer markup was $9,995. $95k for the cars. I guess if their are fools willing to pay. Anything over Invoice is gone when you sign on the dotted line.